What none of us want to admit

[ValentinBk (DayZ) 60]

What  makes you think you are the majority?

 

But....that it what the game IS. Are you not understanding the "survival" aspect of "Post-apocalyptic survival game"? 

Dude, go on a populated server to one of the pvp cities and just see how many people are shooting each other, force feeding each other stuff and just generally dicking around. I don't know if we are the majority, but there sure are a lot of us.

 

While it could originally be intended for berry picking, hunting and whatever, you can't deny that what made the game REALLY popular is the sandbox pvp aspect. Saying "fuck you" to that is just not a good idea.

 

Just a small edit: if you look at the status quo from a post apocalyptic aspect it makes sense. You could live in the woods, worrying mostly about getting food & water and maybe dangerous animals if they get implemented. In the cities, however, while there is a lot more loot, the danger lies in marauders and other psychopaths.

 

I pretty much said all I had to say on the topic and any further I will just be repeating myself (which I already did, several times). We will just have to wait and see what's going to come in the following months.

Edited November 26, 2014 by ValentinBk

[Whyherro123 2283]

Dude, go on a populated server to one of the pvp cities and just see how many people are shooting each other, force feeding each other stuff and just generally dicking around. I don't know if we are the majority, but there sure are a lot of us.

 

While it could originally be intended for berry picking, hunting and whatever, you can't deny that what made the game REALLY popular is the sandbox pvp aspect. Saying "fuck you" to that is just not a good idea.

 

I pretty much said all I had to say on the topic and any further I will just be repeating myself (which I already did, several times). We will just have to wait and see what's going to come in the following months.

Again, that is because THERE IS NEXT TO NOTHING TO DO IN-GAME. Is there base-building? No. Are there (working) vehicles? No. Are there working survival mechanics? Barely. 

 

Literally, there is nothing else to do currently in-game with your loot except kill people with it. Literally nothing. 

 

We are not saying "fuck you" to PvP, by the way. I engage in PvP all the time. I just got 15 kills in a row with the improvised bow, probably the worst ranged weapon in-game, just for shits and giggles. I (and a lot of other senior members of the forum) certainly aren't afraid to mix it up. We just think that Day Z is, and shall be, more than  a shoot-em-up simulator, and we get irked when players state that is what it is supposed to be. It isn't, it is supposed to be a "post-apocalyptic survival game"

 

"post-apocalyptic survival game"

 

"post-apocalyptic survival game"

 

Now, does that mean there is no PvP? Hell no. However, does that mean survival aspects should be lessened or removed entirely to please the "ALL PVP ALL THE TIME" fanboys? Hell no

[harteman 155]

What  makes you think you are the majority?

 

But....that it what the game IS. Are you not understanding the "survival" aspect of "Post-apocalyptic survival game"? 

I assume, same as you.  We will find out.  When we do, the other one can gloat forever over the other.  I'm patient.

[soulfirez 901]

Dude, go on a populated server to one of the pvp cities and just see how many people are shooting each other, force feeding each other stuff and just generally dicking around. I don't know if we are the majority, but there sure are a lot of us.

 

While it could originally be intended for berry picking, hunting and whatever, you can't deny that what made the game REALLY popular is the sandbox pvp aspect. Saying "fuck you" to that is just not a good idea.

 

Just a small edit: if you look at the status quo from a post apocalyptic aspect it makes sense. You could live in the woods, worrying mostly about getting food & water and maybe dangerous animals if they get implemented. In the cities, however, while there is a lot more loot, the danger lies in marauders and other psychopaths.

 

I pretty much said all I had to say on the topic and any further I will just be repeating myself (which I already did, several times). We will just have to wait and see what's going to come in the following months.

Saying fuck you to the idea of a straight PvP sandbox game was one of the main reasons they changed tack on what the SA was going to be and instead of releasing a polished version of the mod they started over to create the game rocket had wanted(well as close as they can within limitations).

 

But if yopu havent gotten the idea by now when every patch has slowly added more and more survival mechanics and persistence IS being brought in to heavily drop the number of guns ( of everything really ) that you will easily be able to find on the coast to force you to try to survive which means moving inland.

Then you have a rude aweakening coming LOL i can smell alot more posts in the this is bull shit i want my money back thread in the next few months... But hey you will always be able to pvp nothing will stop that and they dont want to but the idea is to make it hard to survive not to make it BF on the coast..

[harteman 155]

Saying fuck you to the idea of a straight PvP sandbox game was one of the main reasons they changed tack on what the SA was going to be and instead of releasing a polished version of the mod they started over to create the game rocket had wanted(well as close as they can within limitations).

 

But if yopu havent gotten the idea by now when every patch has slowly added more and more survival mechanics and persistence IS being brought in to heavily drop the number of guns ( of everything really ) that you will easily be able to find on the coast to force you to try to survive which means moving inland.

Then you have a rude aweakening coming LOL i can smell alot more posts in the this is bull shit i want my money back thread in the next few months... But hey you will always be able to pvp nothing will stop that and they dont want to but the idea is to make it hard to survive not to make it BF on the coast..

I'll kill you with a rusty spoon.  

 

The guns aren't what makes the PvP in this game delicious.  The thing that makes it delicious is the tears of guys who spent 10 hours gearing up, eatting berries, and going fishing.  I find them, and I kill them.  I take all those hours you invested in your character, and I flush them down the drain.  You should thank me, guys like me are the ones providing you with a true survival aspect.  Don't fear the mechanics of the game, or the infected whatevers running around, FEAR ME.  I will end you, not those clumsy zombies, or that silly heat mechanic.

 

And know what does it for me?  The same.  I put time into my character as well, and everytime I try to kill one of you, I too am rolling the dice with my investment.  I get the same survival aspect, but instead of playing against mechanics that a child could overcome with ease, I am pitting myself against other humans in the struggle to survive, a far more worthy challenge in my books.

 

The only way this will ever change is if they make this game single player.  I promise you that.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Dude, go on a populated server to one of the pvp cities and just see how many people are shooting each other, force feeding each other stuff and just generally dicking around. I don't know if we are the majority, but there sure are a lot of us.

 

While it could originally be intended for berry picking, hunting and whatever, you can't deny that what made the game REALLY popular is the sandbox pvp aspect. Saying "fuck you" to that is just not a good idea.

 

Just a small edit: if you look at the status quo from a post apocalyptic aspect it makes sense. You could live in the woods, worrying mostly about getting food & water and maybe dangerous animals if they get implemented. In the cities, however, while there is a lot more loot, the danger lies in marauders and other psychopaths.

 

I pretty much said all I had to say on the topic and any further I will just be repeating myself (which I already did, several times). We will just have to wait and see what's going to come in the following months.

 

Nope. In most apocalyptic media, most urban centers die off from starvation and lack of access to resources, not murder. Most of the population would mass-exodus to the surrounding rural areas, kick starting the mass starvation.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

 

 I get the same survival aspect, but instead of playing against mechanics that a child could overcome with ease,

Placeholder mechanics.........  it's to show you the basic functions of how the survival aspect is going to work and is by no means close to the final mechanics of it.  You do know this is an Alpha, right?

[treetop82 59]

I think persistence can succeed. But it really needs to be thought out properly using some math and logic.

 

One of the major problems with persistence is the idea that the server can end up so overloaded with items that it cannot function, or performance may degrade. Therefore, some items must decay. There MUST be mechanisms in the game to keep the number of items on a server stable without affecting overall gameplay. Decay is one of them, but how do you logically make items decay and still allow a player to hoard what they want and not notice?

 

These are theoretical ideas:

 

a) storage space - a player can only have so much storage on their person, this is true right now and is a static limitation.

b) environmental - items that are stored in the environment (backpack on the ground in the woods) should decay at different rates. i.e. if you place a backpack in a creek, it will decay very fast, if you leave a backpack in a house, it won't decay at all. This can be set within each graphics tile used in the game (dirt, water, grass, rock). Items left by themselves out in a field/woods will decay rapidly (be gone at server reset or two). A wildfire sparked by a lightning strike may burn hundreds of acres of forest, and remove all stored items from that area.

b.2) weather - if a severe storm rolls through, your tent may be destroyed or begin leaking, if it does the items in your tent may begin to decay

c) age of an item - the age of an item in your possession may weather over time, this variable relates to the environmental aspect, but consider the fact that you are holding onto raw meat for 4 hours, it may spoil. If you are holding onto a kitchen knife in a damp backpack, it may rust over 2-3 days

d) melee/battle damage - obviously as you take hits, your items break

e) usage of an item - obviously, wear and tear will ruin an item. Repair of an item with a rock, or tool should only recover 50% of the item's hit points, eventually forcing a player to get a new item in its place.

f) item respawning system - items should respawn in over time, not based upon player proximity (for full realism), but should consider the number of items within the area or town, as well as considering each building. A single building may spawn 5 items total but Town X should have 5% drink items 10% food items 25% clothing 25% tools 2% guns 18% boots 20% miscellaneous... so if players come into town and keep taking the food and water, then it doesn't mean you'll end up with 400 pairs of boots in the town over a period of 2 days.

g) houses - should not allow items to decay, but can be looted by anyone. I'd love to see a day where houses could be built for player storage, and could burn down as well and take all the items inside with them. 

 

Overall, there are ways for developers to control persistence. It must be coded into the game to be a transparent system where player X doesn't end up with 400 backpacks of 5.56mm ammunition. If we want players to have truly secure storage, or items that are 100% protected from decay, then it must be rationed. Everything else in the world must decay at some ratio or persistence won't work.

 

 

 

 

[Whyherro123 2283]

Excuse me, but what apocalypse are you referencing?  Ones without zombies running around? 

"Apocalyptic media"

 

You do know what the term "media" means, do you not? Books, movies, games, etc.

[harteman 155]

Placeholder mechanics.........  it's to show you the basic functions of how the survival aspect is going to work and is by no means close to the final mechanics of it.  You do know this is an Alpha, right?

Yup, which is why I play the way I do right now.  Right now, I am playing the game as I see fit.  Tomorrow, I will play the game as I see fit.  But you do realize, most of the guys who like playing in the woods with berries right now, they can't handle a difficulty increase.  Most of those guys have issues killing zombies as it stands right now.  If you crank the difficulty, all you will have left is guys like me, who can swing it.  All you ancient gamers are gonna be in for a rude awakening when easy pickings go away.  I power game.  Throw whatever you got at me, I'll figure out how to gain advantage.

 

I'm in this one for the long haul fellas.  I'm not going anywhere, and I bring more people to the game all the time.  I have already sold 5 copies of the game by word of mouth.  All those copies were sold to guys just like me.  Our ranks grow and grow.  We play to get your tears.  We will have them.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I think persistence can succeed. But it really needs to be thought out properly using some math and logic.

 

One of the major problems with persistence is the idea that the server can end up so overloaded with items that it cannot function, or performance may degrade. Therefore, some items must decay. There MUST be mechanisms in the game to keep the number of items on a server stable without affecting overall gameplay. Decay is one of them, but how do you logically make items decay and still allow a player to hoard what they want and not notice?

 

These are theoretical ideas:

 

a) storage space - a player can only have so much storage on their person, this is true right now and is a static limitation.

B) environmental - items that are stored in the environment (backpack on the ground in the woods) should decay at different rates. i.e. if you place a backpack in a creek, it will decay very fast, if you leave a backpack in a house, it won't decay at all. This can be set within each graphics tile used in the game (dirt, water, grass, rock). Items left by themselves out in a field/woods will decay rapidly (be gone at server reset or two). A wildfire sparked by a lightning strike may burn hundreds of acres of forest, and remove all stored items from that area.

b.2) weather - if a severe storm rolls through, your tent may be destroyed or begin leaking, if it does the items in your tent may begin to decay

c) age of an item - the age of an item in your possession may weather over time, this variable relates to the environmental aspect, but consider the fact that you are holding onto raw meat for 4 hours, it may spoil. If you are holding onto a kitchen knife in a damp backpack, it may rust over 2-3 days

d) melee/battle damage - obviously as you take hits, your items break

e) usage of an item - obviously, wear and tear will ruin an item. Repair of an item with a rock, or tool should only recover 50% of the item's hit points, eventually forcing a player to get a new item in its place.

f) item respawning system - items should respawn in over time, not based upon player proximity (for full realism), but should consider the number of items within the area or town, as well as considering each building. A single building may spawn 5 items total but Town X should have 5% drink items 10% food items 25% clothing 25% tools 2% guns 18% boots 20% miscellaneous... so if players come into town and keep taking the food and water, then it doesn't mean you'll end up with 400 pairs of boots in the town over a period of 2 days.

g) houses - should not allow items to decay, but can be looted by anyone. I'd love to see a day where houses could be built for player storage, and could burn down as well and take all the items inside with them. 

 

Overall, there are ways for developers to control persistence. It must be coded into the game to be a transparent system where player X doesn't end up with 400 backpacks of 5.56mm ammunition. If we want players to have truly secure storage, or items that are 100% protected from decay, then it must be rationed. Everything else in the world must decay at some ratio or persistence won't work.

B) everything will deteriorate over time, regardless of where it is. Obviously, the environment will  have  a greater effect when exposed, but being inside a building won't stop metal from rusting.

 

Other than that, pretty good.

 

I just think EVERYTHING should slowly deteriorate over time, with "more exposed" (in a tent, in a pit-stashe, etc), items degrading faster. However, there should be ways to repair items that deteriorated, or prevent items from deteriorating over time. Like, you can sharpen a knife to "repair" it, then oil it to prevent it from rusting. This oil will keep it pristine for a while without use, but will wear off with time or upon use.

 

Or, a firearm "degrades" with use, leading to jams, magazine failures (magazines should also degrade. You don't leave magazines loaded all the time, causes the springs to wear out), etc. You would have to field-strip the weapon, clean it (returns it to pristine status), before it behaves as normal again.

[harteman 155]

I think persistence can succeed. But it really needs to be thought out properly using some math and logic.

 

One of the major problems with persistence is the idea that the server can end up so overloaded with items that it cannot function, or performance may degrade. Therefore, some items must decay. There MUST be mechanisms in the game to keep the number of items on a server stable without affecting overall gameplay. Decay is one of them, but how do you logically make items decay and still allow a player to hoard what they want and not notice?

 

These are theoretical ideas:

 

a) storage space - a player can only have so much storage on their person, this is true right now and is a static limitation.

B) environmental - items that are stored in the environment (backpack on the ground in the woods) should decay at different rates. i.e. if you place a backpack in a creek, it will decay very fast, if you leave a backpack in a house, it won't decay at all. This can be set within each graphics tile used in the game (dirt, water, grass, rock). Items left by themselves out in a field/woods will decay rapidly (be gone at server reset or two). A wildfire sparked by a lightning strike may burn hundreds of acres of forest, and remove all stored items from that area.

b.2) weather - if a severe storm rolls through, your tent may be destroyed or begin leaking, if it does the items in your tent may begin to decay

c) age of an item - the age of an item in your possession may weather over time, this variable relates to the environmental aspect, but consider the fact that you are holding onto raw meat for 4 hours, it may spoil. If you are holding onto a kitchen knife in a damp backpack, it may rust over 2-3 days

d) melee/battle damage - obviously as you take hits, your items break

e) usage of an item - obviously, wear and tear will ruin an item. Repair of an item with a rock, or tool should only recover 50% of the item's hit points, eventually forcing a player to get a new item in its place.

f) item respawning system - items should respawn in over time, not based upon player proximity (for full realism), but should consider the number of items within the area or town, as well as considering each building. A single building may spawn 5 items total but Town X should have 5% drink items 10% food items 25% clothing 25% tools 2% guns 18% boots 20% miscellaneous... so if players come into town and keep taking the food and water, then it doesn't mean you'll end up with 400 pairs of boots in the town over a period of 2 days.

g) houses - should not allow items to decay, but can be looted by anyone. I'd love to see a day where houses could be built for player storage, and could burn down as well and take all the items inside with them. 

 

Overall, there are ways for developers to control persistence. It must be coded into the game to be a transparent system where player X doesn't end up with 400 backpacks of 5.56mm ammunition. If we want players to have truly secure storage, or items that are 100% protected from decay, then it must be rationed. Everything else in the world must decay at some ratio or persistence won't work.

Didn't they already come to that conclusion?  I am pretty sure items will degrade, eventually become ruined, then disappear, respawning another item within the game world.

 

Also, the container you store things in should have an effect as well, and you should be able to pack items for storage as well.  Want to store a rifle?  Grease it up before burying it.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Speaking of degradation, what happened to shoes wearing out?

[Whyherro123 2283]

Speaking of degradation, what happened to shoes wearing out?

They do, they just take a reasonable amount of time.  I spawned in Solnichny as a newspawn, found a pair of pristine Workboots. I was able to run to the factory, back to town, to Dolina, to Polana, down to Msta, then Elektro, then Pusta, than Tulga, then Elektro again, before my boots became "worn".

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

They do, they just take a reasonable amount of time.  I spawned in Solnichny as a newspawn, found a pair of pristine Workboots. I was able to run to the factory, back to town, to Dolina, to Polana, down to Msta, then Elektro, then Pusta, than Tulga, then Elektro again, before my boots became "worn".

Odd, I've gone days in the same boots without a worry.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

To go onto what the OP was talking about, people have been begging for 100+ man servers, and the OP is worried about lack of loot on a 50 man?  Of course there isn't going to be any loot left on a 100+ man server.  Also server hoppers is what is ruining the idea of persistence.

[TrouserSnakeXL 1]

I'm not attacking you, I'm telling you that bragging how you run around and pvp means nothing in a game that doesn't have it's key feature implemented, survival.  Play the game you want, I love KoS'ers, they make easy targets because they give themselves away.

 

This game was never meant to be pve, or it would have never made it this far.  People play it in mass because it has guns, you can kill, and there is a fun rpg element to it between fights.  It was never meant to be unassailably difficult to survive against zombies that are essentially nuetralized with any mele or gun, or even a few fists to the head.  It will never be a survival simulator since those suck and have no end game.  If you want to just walk around safe a lot of people like to play world of warcraft because you can get together with friends and have no penalty if you have less talent then an enemey.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

This game was never meant to be pve, or it would have never made it this far.  People play it in mass because it has guns, you can kill, and there is a fun rpg element to it between fights.  It was never meant to be unassailably difficult to survive against zombies that are essentially nuetralized with any mele or gun, or even a few fists to the head.  It will never be a survival simulator since those suck and have no end game.  If you want to just walk around safe a lot of people like to play world of warcraft because you can get together with friends and have no penalty if you have less talent then an enemey.

Thank you for making me spit out my coffee with this stellar post.  Who the hell asked for PVE?

[kichilron 8550]

I just don't want this gravy-trail of a thread closed due to asshattery.

 

You have not done a good job at preventing that yourself. Next time don't get caught up in a discussion and break the rules yourself. Just report it and let us deal with it.

 

Topic cleaned.

 

 

 

I'm not attacking you

 

You have been throughout this thread. Even though I understand you have a passion for this game you might earn yourself another warning if you can't calm down before posting. Your constant offtopic / derailing / borderling-insults are being noted.

Edited November 26, 2014 by kichilron

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

You have been throughout this thread. Even though I understand you have a passion for this game you might earn yourself another warning if you can't calm down before posting. Your constant offtopic / derailing / borderling-insults are being noted.

 

The whining answer to your question is that all the berry pickers think it will ruin "their" game, because everyone will play "ez" mode.  But if everyone wants to play a certain way because it is more fun to them, why should we cater to the minority?  Give them their berry picking mode and let us have our normal mode.

 

 

I'll kill you with a rusty spoon.  

 

The guns aren't what makes the PvP in this game delicious.  The thing that makes it delicious is the tears of guys who spent 10 hours gearing up, eatting berries, and going fishing.  I find them, and I kill them.  I take all those hours you invested in your character, and I flush them down the drain.  You should thank me, guys like me are the ones providing you with a true survival aspect.  Don't fear the mechanics of the game, or the infected whatevers running around, FEAR ME.  I will end you, not those clumsy zombies, or that silly heat mechanic.

 

And know what does it for me?  The same.  I put time into my character as well, and everytime I try to kill one of you, I too am rolling the dice with my investment.  I get the same survival aspect, but instead of playing against mechanics that a child could overcome with ease, I am pitting myself against other humans in the struggle to survive, a far more worthy challenge in my books.

 

The only way this will ever change is if they make this game single player.  I promise you that.

 

 

Yup, which is why I play the way I do right now.  Right now, I am playing the game as I see fit.  Tomorrow, I will play the game as I see fit.  But you do realize, most of the guys who like playing in the woods with berries right now, they can't handle a difficulty increase.  Most of those guys have issues killing zombies as it stands right now.  If you crank the difficulty, all you will have left is guys like me, who can swing it.  All you ancient gamers are gonna be in for a rude awakening when easy pickings go away.  I power game.  Throw whatever you got at me, I'll figure out how to gain advantage.

 

I'm in this one for the long haul fellas.  I'm not going anywhere, and I bring more people to the game all the time.  I have already sold 5 copies of the game by word of mouth.  All those copies were sold to guys just like me.  Our ranks grow and grow.  We play to get your tears.  We will have them.

[Irish. 4886]

Persistence is an amazing idea but in reality it is terrible.  I have played many hours of Dayz SA (150 plus) and I love the game and I understand it is a work in progress.  I also understand that persistence will be tweaked many times, but I am talking about it as a game feature overall. 

All loot is gone from the coastal areas so it encourages players to go inland (no problem with that).  Once you go inland to a small town many building have an abundance of useless loot (chem lights, wrenches, hard hats, books, etc.).  All usable loot has been taken and all useless loot has been left.  Loot will respawn over and over but players will continue to leave crap and take the few desirable items.  Over time this leaves an abundance of garbage that the server has to track.  Like I said above, I understand it is a work in progress and it will be tweaked but the tweaks can only go so far while still keeping the game persistent.   It is an unnecessary restraint the devs are putting on themselves and the game.

I think tents being persistent is a great idea and it should stay but I think the overall server persistence will not be in the final game.  Most every player has the same goals in the game, get healthy, get geared, pvp of some form or another.  The process of achieving those goals must be fun and rewarding or the game will not succeed. 

The old system of loot respawning on server restart was not perfect either but it made more sense than the current system and the old system has to be more sustainable than the server tracking the location of each piece of moved loot.  As players of games in general we accept the fact that if you kill a guy or drop an item it is not going to be there forever, wanting it to be so is silly. 

Persistence encourages unrealistic actions such as looting a building 100% and dumping all of the stuff outside or just taking guns and ammo that you do not want or need and dropping them in a bush.  That is not realistic and it seems that all the people that want persistence are all about being as realistic as possible.  Persistence is far from realistic and I do not believe any amount of tweaking will make it so.

Bash away......

 

1 word, didnt even have to read very far into your OP.. but seriously man.. 

 

MODS.

 

Did you play them? 

[scriptfactory 620]

IF an item is stored in a container then it's protected from the elements  :rolleyes:

 

And if I drop it on the ground inside of a building it is protected as well. So what is your point?

[scriptfactory 620]

Here, let us do some research.

 

Take a piece of metal, go outside, and leave it out, exposed to the elements.

 

snip

 

Right now all loot spawns inside of buildings. Right now all loot degrades inside of buildings. On server restart. Every two hours. Please stop trying to play the realism game. That ship has sailed.

 

Edit: I just saw your later posts. I guess we are on the same page.

Edited November 26, 2014 by scriptfactory

[Artophwar 42]

This game was sold as a Zombie survival simulator. The current mechanics make it more PVP than it is going to be, as there really isnt any base building or other group oriented stuff to do. Im willing to bet that there are many players like me who bought the game early as a supporter and play off and on to check the progress. There are probably many more who are waiting for the full release before they buy it. Both of these groups of players want to play a survival game with pvp a secondary portion of that survival not the main focus. If the game ends up being only - Get gear, go to citiy, Kill players - than that would be a waste of basically 98% of the map. There are many games that fill that market and do it in much smaller environments and have quick respawns. 

 

PVPers like to think they are always the majority, but the stats to any game that has both options will always favour PVE. You can call them carebears or berry pickers all you want but most people want to do something other than kill other people in their spare time. 

[Hicks_206 (DayZ) 4297]

Persistence is a core pillar of the DayZ project. Thus it will not, and can not be "removed". 

Thats really the final point on it, anything past that is just people discussing their personal opinions.