Results of killing (insanity, morality)

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Ok, now that I see that you guys who are against this have no morals in life, I'll add this:

• This was a suggestion

• I didn't want a flame war

• Constructive criticism is wanted, not a "lmao this is dumb lol this is my irrefutable opinion"

• I wanted you guys to help implement a morality type system not based on the mod, but rather, people irl who are ptsd from killing innocent people

•This wouldn't affect your play style at all if you played it right, you can still be a bandit and kill 10 people a day and not have insanity set in, only a moral drop

Thanks for all of the hate and arguments you guys

The issue with your suggestion is that it dictates how a player should react due to the chance of losing sanity/morality.  That is just bad.  

[threedogification 41]

So in an unpredictable apocalypse where you lost everyone you love, instead of cherishing the last hopes of humanity, you will just mercilessly kill them

[arlingtine 27]

Not insulting just keeping it real but i think this idea is terrible your morals should be that of the person playing. If i dont feel bad killing 10000000000 people a day neither should my character. I should be able to play as i choose.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

So in an unpredictable apocalypse where you lost everyone you love, instead of cherishing the last hopes of humanity, you will just mercilessly kill them

There is no specific back story to the characters you play as.. we don't know whether they were drifters living alone their whole lives or people with massive families... and the only person who decides your backround is you.

There would be people who try and keep what little there is left together, and there would also be those who acted on sadistic desires to kill. Yes, you could argue that those people are "insane", but that doesn't necessarily mean they only see through black and white or that some morality is causing them to feel guilty about it. It doesn't make sense.

 

And then there's the fact that the game would have to be able to judge whether a killing was justified or not. I mean, what if someone really just was unlucky enough to get attacked all the time, but happened to be skilled enough to fight off the attacker(s)? Those systems simply would not work.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

You know OP, you could RP your sanity.  Just start crying on the in game voice and shit.

[VermillionX 78]

So in an unpredictable apocalypse where you lost everyone you love, instead of cherishing the last hopes of humanity, you will just mercilessly kill them

What? You've never met people in-game who yell "Friendly!" when you meet them? I was unaware that every single person who plays this game kills on sight without a second thought.

Had this been a real event, people would band together simply because they know there's no respawn and shit hurts irl. Hell, if you survived a zombie apocalypse, it would be because you had no loved ones to lose and probaby lived alone and apart from people before it all happened.

 

What you're asking for is not sanity or morals, it's for YOUR morals be applied to everyone else and with poor execution. Morals are part of the player, not part of the game. You choose whether to KoS for no reason (Basically griefing) or whether to go up and say "hi". The consequences of choosing either have an effect on both people involved. Your character feels the same thing whether he shoots a tree or shoots a player. 

Even as a legitimate suggestion, if you were going to suggest some kind of sanity effect. Crying, screaming and weird visual effects would be a terrible way to implement a sanity status effect. A far more effective means would be hearing non-existant gunshots, footsteps, mic sounds from random directions as paranoia sets in. In fact, paranoia would be a better status effect than "Insanity".

Edited November 22, 2014 by VermillionX

[mfdayz 18]

I just posted a similar response in the cannibilism thread but it is relevant here as well.

I do not mean to get too philosophical, but human beings are only animals, and history has shown that under the right circumstances we are all willing to do awful things to our own species, and while it is certainly traumatizing for many, it does not necessarily turn people insane. BubbaJones has got his finger on this issue and you should all give your beans to him. I understand that this is a game and not real life, but what makes this game so freaking good is that it understands that human morality is only a construct, and the game does not and should not punish players for exploring all realms of the human condition, good, evil, and everything in between. This is what makes the bonds and betrayals of human interaction in dayz so captivating. These bonds and betrayals are in themselves so human.

To force players into the oversimplified tropes of hero, bandit, cannibal, etc would be an insult to the density of the DayZ experience. Even the concept of sanity/insanity is a social construct. What we civilized human beings consider insanity is, in reality, simply another iteration of humanity which nature has cooked up. "Insanity" is a mental state that is just as relevent as "sanity" depending on the context. So I say let the players themselves be the morality system, let DayZ continue to be the giant social experiment that it is. You may not realize while playing, but what DayZ is accomplishing is some super dense observations on the human psyche, and that is why the game is so incredible.

Edited November 22, 2014 by mfdayz

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

The only results to killing is me getting your gear. 

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

No, just no.

[Troll_Hunter 54]

I think a reputation ranking would help successful bandits and survivors become a bigger target.

A created character should have a permanent unique name, age and global reputation rank. A name that cannot be reused, even after death.

Bandits should have a red rank number, indicating their dark path and rank, and making them a bigger price to others ;) Hero's / survivors blue.

As a bandit you try to become the oldest and the worst, but your increasingly worse reputation will have people hunting and fleeing from you.

Identification in game is to be either up close (<25m) watching for a second will unveil name, age and rank, or with a scope/ binos  from say 100-200m. And online off cause, maybe with a link to their current server, so the hunt can begin :)

Because of carry and skill limitations it will be made harder to survive alone, and some tasks need advanced skills to (re)gain full functionality.

For bandits Killing gains rep, killing high rep players gains much more.

 

Off cause a survivor/hero ranking is also there, where the goal is the become the oldest survivor, with highest rep.

Killing low rep players cost rep, killing low rep bandits gains low rep. killing high rep bandits gains more. killing high rep hero's cost more.

Maybe also getting rep for healing and repairs?

 

The global rep, and the limited carry and skill system will help to set up a complex dynamic that encourages thought, consideration, and sharing and tension.

 

Example:

As a bandit player you'll get shot someday, and you'll need to have field surgery, done by another player, to regain full functionality.

Because it needs to be done under narcosis he needs a trustworthy friend with a medicine skill. This friend hasn't got the skill but manages to find and and take hostage a doctor, to force him to help his fellow bandit friend...

 

With a character's big global rep on the line I expect some high drama moments, and smashed keyboards.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Troll_Hunter

[scriptfactory 620]

Instead of adding mental health affects, Garry added ways for noobs to protect themselves in Rust. It isn't finished yet but I think this is definitely the way to go. Make it easier to protect yourself than kill someone else and all of this rampant killing will slow down a bit. But just a bit. Half of DayZ players would be griefers in other games if they had the skill. The idea that you can gear up and shoot unprotected/unsuspecting people is too fascinating for the vast majority of DayZ players.

[Rags! 1966]

Why do people keep sending up this suggestion? It gets shot down like the Luftwaffe over London every time. 

[General Zod 1118]

And online off cause, maybe with a link to their current server, so the hunt can begin 

The idea of stats ranks and identification is bad on it's own. But the idea that others can find what server I'm on on some website is just plain stupid. Griefing will go through a roof.

Edited November 26, 2014 by General Zod

[bobotype3334 160]

I THINK WE SHOULD ALL GET ALONG AND LOVE EACH OTHER :( ;_; ;_;

...AND AGREE THAT DAYZ SHOULD BE REALISTIC AND NOT HAVE ARBITRARY CAPS ON THINGS PLAYERS CAN DO IN REAL LIFE.

Edited November 26, 2014 by bobotype3334

[Troll_Hunter 54]

The idea of stats ranks and identification is bad on it's own. But the idea that others can find what server I'm on on some website is just plain stupid. Griefing will go through a roof.

I find only 1 argument; "Griefing will go through a roof."

 

Yes griefing, revenge, vendetta's. It's the price of NOT living an a moral life... - a lot of people hate you :D

Living a successful (hero) live also creates hate and jealousy, making things tough for high ranking hero's too.

 

With the published rank, being a top ranking killer will be increasingly difficult, as the reward - ranking points - and lust for killing/capturing you increases, just like in real life...

 

Knowing which server you're on still gives players lot's of square KM's to hide and work on their ranking.

I would love the tension of facing an organised gang trying to hunt me down in Chernarus.

 

It will be extremely challenging, and bloody scary, a most wonderful strong emotion only a few games manage to pull off.

 

The cool thing is this challenge scales along your improving skill, so it's fun for everyone.

The most scary sandbox game just got another level of fear :)

 

 

ps. if you fear the wrath, you better choose a moral playing style :D and team up.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Troll_Hunter

[Chaingunfighter 917]

I find only 1 argument; "Griefing will go through a roof."

 

Yes griefing, revenge, vendetta's. It's the price of NOT living an a moral life... - a lot of people hate you :D

Living a successful (hero) live also creates hate and jealousy, making things tough for high ranking hero's too.

 

With the published rank, being a top ranking killer will be increasingly difficult, as the reward - ranking points - and lust for killing/capturing you increases, just like in real life...

 

Knowing which server you're on still gives players lot's of square KM's to hide and work on their ranking.

I would love the tension of facing an organised gang trying to hunt me down in Chernarus.

 

It will be extremely challenging, and bloody scary, a most wonderful strong emotion only a few games manage to pull off.

 

The cool thing is this challenge scales along your improving skill, so it's fun for everyone.

The most scary sandbox game just got another level of fear :)

 

 

ps. if you fear the wrath, you better choose a moral playing style :D and team up.

Real life manhunts are only held in orderly societies, where there's a government and police force who can keep track of them. DayZ is the complete opposite; a post-apocalyptic environment where everything (at least in the region you play inside) has broken down. And even in orderly instances, it's not like the police have RFID chips that tell them exactly where the perpetrator is (in most cases), ala giving them the server they're on.

 

People shouldn't be able to just come and track you down to kill you because you've killed a lot of other players, I mean realistically speaking, why is all of this information available to everyone?

And how does the game know for sure that the killings weren't justified?

 

If people want to hunt down some notorious killer or bandit, they should have to do it themselves. No features or whatever to do the work for them.

 

You're trying to define morality in an open-sandbox game; an oxymoron, if you ask me. (Let's not forget all of the other things "evil" playstyles can do that don't necessarily involve killing)

Edited November 26, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[Sooden 301]

Ok then they should increase the threshold for this to at least 15 then, because if you kill 15 people you are definitely identifiable as a bandit lol

aaaw, know why you want it, cus its seems so silly that some KOS for fun and make the game silly (oh i have a gun, there a player thats easy kill, lets kill or torture them so i can get my rocks off). but only way to deal with it is a private hive with players that are not on a deathmatch or sick fantasy (each to theier own). i was like you once, so long ago (looks back) but learnt its not gonna happen. players that wanna play a more realistic situation will have to shuffle off to private hives.

 

most kill because they can, and have no interest in survival game play, just how it will be :(

[Troll_Hunter 54]

Real life manhunts are only held in orderly societies, where there's a government and police force who can keep track of them. DayZ is the complete opposite; a post-apocalyptic environment where everything (at least in the region you play inside) has broken down. And even in orderly instances, it's not like the police have RFID chips that tell them exactly where the perpetrator is (in most cases), ala giving them the server they're on.

 

People shouldn't be able to just come and track you down to kill you because you've killed a lot of other players, I mean realistically speaking, why is all of this information available to everyone?

And how does the game know for sure that the killings weren't justified?

 

If people want to hunt down some notorious killer or bandit, they should have to do it themselves. No features or whatever to do the work for them.

 

You're trying to define morality in an open-sandbox game; an oxymoron, if you ask me. (Let's not forget all of the other things "evil" playstyles can do that don't necessarily involve killing)

 

Thank you for your response.

 

I get you're worried about your current play style, let me clarify the ranking system I envisioned.

 

Voluntary participation.

One does not need to engage in the ranking competition, it's just a voluntary option for those who want a tougher challenge.

To stay a low profile player, you can create multiple characters, so their hero or bandit points stay relatively low and you can explore your fantasies without the being hunted consequence and top ranking glory.

 

Bandit-hero reputation points determination.

How the game knows your killing is justified or not? Well, it doesn't! However it knows the reputation of the person you've killed, and deals point accordingly. So if you want to be a hero, you better check id before shooting unveiling yourself. If a person with a hero reputation suddenly decides to indiscriminately kill you, he may loose a lot of rep points of his hero status because you too were a hero. I think this will work out beautifully, and both bandits and hero's will enjoy their different paths, which from they can deviate too!

 

Changing your mind.

If you start out killing everyone, including heros, then you'll become a bandit. But at any moment you can have a change of heart, and start discriminating between hero's and bandits, changing your reputation and eventually your bandit status changes into a hero status. Going from Hero to bandit is also possible off cause.

 

I think a Hero and Bandit ranking is a voluntary, flexible and challenging mechanic.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Troll_Hunter

[AP_Norris 1018]

I think, the kuru from cannabilism is very good, it's an actual physical head problem though.

If you ask me, insanity should be something everybody gets, in such a world you would have to desensitise yourself. Get used to smells, dead people and having to kill people to survive.

Maybe when you start a new character and see a dead player, you might get a throw up status, if you get closer search through him you might actually throw up, killing people would have a heavy affect on you at first, but I think after a few kills you should loose that sort of remorse debuff.

Quickly in a environment you would get used to killing, first few times though you may suffer for an amount of time from feeling sick and uncontrollable crying that you get with kuru. It should go on no more than about an hour of this remorse stage though.

I feel the crying while some may hate it adds a good atmosphere, I heard uncontrollable crying once while looting a building and half shat myself in experimental.

Eventually though after a few kills the player should become use to this pain and suffer nothing after a kill so it would turn into something useful if killing a lot is what you do anyway.

[General Zod 1118]

I find only 1 argument; "Griefing will go through a roof."

 

Yes griefing, revenge, vendetta's. It's the price of NOT living an a moral life... - a lot of people hate you :D

You do realize that all those who now KoS for fun will than KoS to be on top ? A lot of online games are competitive by nature, if you give them ranking system on number of kills they will turn this game into pure pvp. It will make even more people kill.  

 

Living a successful (hero) live also creates hate and jealousy, making things tough for high ranking hero's too.

What ?

 

With the published rank, being a top ranking killer will be increasingly difficult, as the reward - ranking points - and lust for killing/capturing you increases, just like in real life...

 

Knowing which server you're on still gives players lot's of square KM's to hide and work on their ranking.

I would love the tension of facing an organised gang trying to hunt me down in Chernarus.

 

It will be extremely challenging, and bloody scary, a most wonderful strong emotion only a few games manage to pull off.

 

The cool thing is this challenge scales along your improving skill, so it's fun for everyone.

The most scary sandbox game just got another level of fear  :)

 

 

ps. if you fear the wrath, you better choose a moral playing style  :D and team up.

No it won't be scary, or challenging or even realistic. It will be a stupid system that will allow others to just find people and ruin their game. 

Voluntary participation.

One does not need to engage in the ranking competition, it's just a voluntary option for those who want a tougher challenge.

To stay a low profile player, you can create multiple characters, 

You can't have multiple characters in DayZ