BattleEye going way too far

[patmaster 11]

So I just stumbled upon this https://imgur.com/s8Krx5c

 

So one of the shadiest pieces of software ever is now reserving the right to scan my entire computer just to catch cheaters ?

Are you kidding me ?

This makes BE basically a rootkit.

 

Am I the only one who finds this absolutely unacceptable ?

 

Instead of fixing their goddamn engine they rather trust some thirdparty who has been breached before with all of our data ?

 

Just when this game was starting to get good I now have to stop playing.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

If you aren't doing anything shady you have nothing to worry about.  Suck it up princess

[scriptfactory 620]

I agree that the primary effort should have been from the DayZ development team @ BIS and not BattleEye. This was an extremely lazy "fix" to a horrible problem. The fact of the matter is, this change will not get rid of hackers. It will only make it harder for them to do their work.

 

That being said, at this point hackers are ruining my experience in DayZ. I will accept this if it really fixes the problem. BattleEye just better make sure they keep their fucking code secure. If they get hacked we are all fucked.

[scriptfactory 620]

If you aren't doing anything shady you have nothing to worry about.  Suck it up princess

 

There is a point to all of this and it has nothing to do with us "doing anything shady". Do we actually trust BattleEye enough to have this kind of access to our computer systems? In my opinion this problem is something the game developers should be address and NOT BattleEye.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

There is a point to all of this and it has nothing to do with us "doing anything shady". Do we actually trust BattleEye enough to have this kind of access to our computer systems? In my opinion this problem is something the game developers should be address and NOT BattleEye.

There is no point.  Every time you log on to your computer, Microsoft gets data, google gets data, facebook gets data, data gets data.  The only people who have anything to worry about are people who do wrong doings.  Gee, it's amazing how Steam wants to do a survey every once and a while and it knows exactly what I'm using.  

Edited November 13, 2014 by Caboose187

[kichilron 8550]

You are most likely signed up to FaceBook and/or are using Chrome. This means that the NSA and Google / FB know more about you than BattlEye could ever find out.

 

Everybody could know everything about you and you could be hacked at any given time. The question is: why would they want to do that? What are they going to do with that information?

 

BattlEye is nothing overly special or aggressive in regards to scanning your computer. Things like Origin are far more aggressive. This is quite normal for an anticheat in order to be working. The only one that could complain about this is the one that has done some shady things in the first place.

[boneboys 7988]

Even I get data :D

 

You don't have to agree to the licence if it troubles you so much.

 

If you don't like Steam or Origins on your computer,

IDONTWANTSTEAM

 you don't have to use them, nobody is forcing you to play games if you don't want to accept the terms and conditions.

 

Don't believe that "DayZ development team @ BIS and not BattleEye." misconception, they work very tightly together.

[Bororm 1156]

I dunno, I think it's a fair point.  Just because other programs do it, and potentially worse, still doesn't make it any less right.  It just means they're all wrong.

 

Personally I don't care, but invasion of privacy is a thing.  "If you aren't doing anything wrong you don't have anything to worry about" isn't an excuse for an invasion of privacy, even if it is for security.

 

The whole "you don't have to play games if you don't want to" thing is also pretty bullshit.  Doing something or not at all isn't much of an option, when it's something you want to be doing.  Putting in stipends, especially after the fact (we didn't buy this game knowing this would be the case), is sorta a shitty thing.

 

Again, I personally don't care but these are all perfectly valid points and concerns and writing them off with tired sayings isn't bringing anything useful to the discussion.

[Etherious 907]

Don't worry they won't look at your porn folder.

[kichilron 8550]

Don't get me wrong. I am all for data privacy. But in the ages of internet nothing is really private anymore. The only question you have to ask yourself is: "What would the people in question want with this information?"

 

That is the question you have to ask yourself and everyone has to ask themselves. If you expand this to a global factor, it is obvious what the governments in question want to do with the data and why this is inacceptable. But an Anti-Cheat for a game as relatively small as DayZ? Not really any private data they can harvest.

[r.pitura@live.com.au 12]

I agree that the primary effort should have been from the DayZ development team @ BIS and not BattleEye. This was an extremely lazy "fix" to a horrible problem. The fact of the matter is, this change will not get rid of hackers. It will only make it harder for them to do their work.

 

That being said, at this point hackers are ruining my experience in DayZ. I will accept this if it really fixes the problem. BattleEye just better make sure they keep their fucking code secure. If they get hacked we are all fucked.

Yes and no,do you understand from a game dev point of view for a long time there has been too much trust in the client(which is us gamers)to do the right thing....

And if you pull apart all the anti cheat methods or terms of service they all do the very same thing...

There was even a story not so long ago that Valve used to look into your cookies..

To see if you visited hack sites...

[scriptfactory 620]

Everybody could know everything about you and you could be hacked at any given time. The question is: why would they want to do that? What are they going to do with that information?

 

I can not be hacked at any time. I trust the software that I install on my computer. Any software that requires elevated privileges (like my anti-virus software or PunkBuster) I trust. Do I trust the BattleEye developers, not really.

 

 

But an Anti-Cheat for a game as relatively small as DayZ? Not really any private data they can harvest.

 

This does not make sense.

[scriptfactory 620]

Yes and no,do you understand from a game dev point of view for a long time there has been too much trust in the client(which is us gamers)to do the right thing....

And if you pull apart all the anti cheat methods or terms of service they all do the very same thing...

There was even a story not so long ago that Valve used to look into your cookies..

To see if you visited hack sites...

 

I work for a F2P game publisher that supports 3 separate anti-hacking solutions (2 for MMOs and one for an ego-shooter). Not one of them runs as a rootkit.

 

Punkbuster is the only anti-cheat that I allow to run as a rootkit on my private PCs, and that is only because I have used them for years and trust the company. I don't care if Valve looks at my cookies. I don't care if BattleEye looks at my porn. I care that the shitty BattleEye client has access to my entire computer and if they get hacked their software (that auto-updates) could be easily compromised as well.

This is my only concern.

Edited November 13, 2014 by scriptfactory

[PaulPanzer 0]

This is definitely the wrong way. It would be helpful if you would See who has killed another player.

I'll certainly not install a rootkit just to play a Video game.

Edited November 13, 2014 by PaulPanzer

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

Summary of the thread so far:

OpenPoster: Has concerns about his privacy due BattleEye overreaching access, and that they have been breached in the past.

Others: ~ "What privacy? pretty much everyone has their hands in your pants. So you should give up, keep your legs spread and enjoy the ride"...

Edited November 13, 2014 by Mor

[Zing Freelancer 58]

Try googling your nicknames.

Chances are you will find your real name on public display somewhere attached to that nickname.

[r.pitura@live.com.au 12]

I work for a F2P game publisher that supports 3 separate anti-hacking solutions (2 for MMOs and one for an ego-shooter). Not one of them runs as a rootkit.

 

Punkbuster is the only anti-cheat that I allow to run as a rootkit on my private PCs, and that is only because I have used them for years and trust the company. I don't care if Valve looks at my cookies. I don't care if BattleEye looks at my porn. I care that the shitty BattleEye client has access to my entire computer and if they get hacked their software (that auto-updates) could be easily compromised as well.

This is my only concern.

Which ones because they would be in house i bet..

And not a independent company like Pb or Be.

Also you should know if you work for one of theses company's the most valuable part of any anti-cheat is memory side of things thats where alot of things get done...

Apart from certain files..which are easy scanned...

Please who is it that you work for or the anticheats you speak of?

Because i bet my bottom dollar they are just not in the same way that Pb or Be are..

 

As to the info,google data mining its legit and has been done by big companys for a long time to try and predict a trend...

The Americans call them speculators.....

[PaulPanzer 0]

The DayZ source code was stolen from the devs and published on the internet.

Read this about battleeye.

https://www.nccgroup.com/en/blog/2014/10/in-game-cheating/

[BadAsh (DayZ) 1513]

Apparently Battleye has been doing this for quite some time, it is just that the recent EULA has made it noticeable. And apparently VAC does the same.

 

I'm the first to criticise the "if haven't got anything to hide, you haven't got anything to fear" argument, because it is silly logic, but unfortunately this seems to be one of those cases (like with the NSA, just infinitely more benign) where average pc users just have to accept the intrusion or stop using the product in question.

 

From a private rights point of view it is a sad state of affairs all around, this being just a minor example of the rightlessness of the internet, but I simply like the game too much to let principle stand in the way of me playing it.

[scriptfactory 620]

Please who is it that you work for or the anticheats you speak of?

 

I just asked a co-worker. I was wrong. We are totally running rootkits as well, but in "user-mode" only. We don't have anti-hacking solutions that use a "kernel-mode" driver which it appears BattleEye is doing now. Sorry for spreading misinformation.

 

I still don't like BattleEye requiring these permissions. From their website: "It's also true that BE can dynamically execute code streamed from the BE master server. However, it should equally be understood that such a feature does not indicate evil intentions."

Edited November 13, 2014 by scriptfactory

[thelonewarrior 886]

They can scan your computer but I doubt they can actually steal or use any data

It's moat likely these big companies get checked out first before this kind of software is released

Most likely they are searching for common known hacks anyway and not searching your computer 1 file at a time

Edited November 13, 2014 by Regulator Lone Warrior

[r.pitura@live.com.au 12]

I just asked a co-worker. I was wrong. We are totally running rootkits as well, but in "user-mode" only. We don't have anti-hacking solutions that use a "kernel-mode" driver which it appears BattleEye is doing now. Sorry for spreading misinformation.

 

I still don't like BattleEye requiring these permissions. From their website: "It's also true that BE can dynamically execute code streamed from the BE master server. However, it should equally be understood that such a feature does not indicate evil intentions."

Told you,its the only way this type of anticheat works,because its based on old methods there are other methods that are better..

But the last ime people got all shirty about it because it comes across as bashing Be..

And its not,just people need to open there eyes as to how its done nothing more..

So seeing how you work for this company you should be able to answer is a game just based on numbers?

And if so that if its a numbers game could you not base a anticheat of this...

 

So i ask this if i kill you in game with 1 bullet am i hacking?

 

Im going to love to see the answers on this.

[PaulPanzer 0]

I think,it is possible to detect speed hacking without ring 0 rootkits.

Edited November 13, 2014 by PaulPanzer

[scriptfactory 620]

So seeing how you work for this company you should be able to answer is a game just based on numbers?

And if so that if its a numbers game could you not base a anticheat of this...

 

So i ask this if i kill you in game with 1 bullet am i hacking?

 

Im going to love to see the answers on this.

 

We actually added a "hacking detection script" to our ego-shooter admin backend that helps our supporters detect hackers. Hackers are normally quite obvious in their behavior for this specific type of game. If someone is running around with an absurd k/d ratio, getting all 1-shot kills, etc. then we assume he is a hacker. But, again, this is not done automatically. We just flag suspected accounts for a support specialist to review.

[r.pitura@live.com.au 12]

Can you finish the rest of the question then..

Kernel hacking isn't much of a problem,because its cheaper to write using the old way...

Its was suppose to be the new way but the time it takes its more cost effective to do it the old way..

Thats why it never really got off the ground,not saying that it doesn't happen,but it would be a very private one at that...

And there is only 1 place you really need to look anyway,so the point is moot tbh..