About base building and base raping.

[massacrorBKK 64]

Not sure how to call this thread, English is not my first language and I hope you won't get here by mistake.

 

Anyway, I was thinking lately about base building and how to not get players and zombies spawning inside your base. Then I found this answer for myself and I'm posting it here to see if it seems relevant to the community and the devs. Remember that those ideas would need private shards before beeing possible.

 

So, around a base object (a tent, a crafted palisade, a bed...) we could have a invisible circle or spheric radius (maybe 20-30 meters) that disable any spawning. It prevents spawning of players and disable server spawning of zombies and loot inside the zone. It should not allowing players to spawn for obvious no server ghosting base raping reason. But it should not allowing zombies or loot spawning because it seems than when you build your base and clear it of zombies and loot, they can't just keep spawning back inside your base after every server restart.

 

Then the way for the base owner to be allowed to spawn inside the radius is by crafting a bed. The bed could give you an option (tent should have the same option) to quit the server and then when you coming back on this particular server it allows you to spawn near the bed and inside the anti-spawn zone.

 

Is this understandable (hehe). Please give your ideas and comments.

Edited October 26, 2014 by massacrorBKK

[liquidcactus 719]

I  was just thinking of this idea today.. how to beat players ghosting from another server into your base.. hopefully they can add something like you speak of

[nokyookami 63]

Agreed Had same idea Seen Some others Mention Hope something Like that gets added too :thumbsup: :beans:

P.S. your English Seems Fine i Could Understand Well ^_^
 

Edited October 26, 2014 by NokyoOkami

[snwh 24]

Hmmm, I'd prefer something a bit more elegant than a no-spawn radius. But I really can't think of a better idea myself.

 

Until/if they let you build your own custom base, this really only applies to indoor bases. Locking/barring the doors, closing up the windows. It doesn't matter much for a tent in the middle of nowhere.

 

So the question is, can the engine tell what is inside a house and whats not? And if it can't, can it easily be programmed to do so?

 

It would be nice if the server could automatically tell if a house was completely locked up, and make people spawn outside accordingly. You could also use the pre-existing beds to log out with. (or if you want to lock yourself in a factory or something, make your own or use a sleeping bag).

 

Speaking of factories, I wonder if you could turn just one room into a base, by locking it up. Hmmmm.

 

Well, that's my two cents.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

 

Not sure how to call this thread, English is not my first language and I hope you won't get here by mistake.

 

Anyway, I was thinking lately about base building and how to not get players and zombies spawning inside your base. Then I found this answer for myself and I'm posting it here to see if it seems relevant to the community and the devs. Remember that those ideas would need private shards before beeing possible.

 

So, around a base object (a tent, a crafted palisade, a bed...) we could have a invisible circle or spheric radius (maybe 20-30 meters) that disable any spawning. It prevents spawning of players and disable server spawning of zombies and loot inside the zone. It should not allowing players to spawn for obvious no server ghosting base raping reason. But it should not allowing zombies or loot spawning because it seems than when you build your base and clear it of zombies and loot, they can't just keep spawning back inside your base after every server restart.

 

Then the way for the base owner to be allowed to spawn inside the radius is by crafting a bed. The bed could give you an option (tent should have the same option) to quit the server and then when you coming back on this particular server it allows you to spawn near the bed and inside the anti-spawn zone.

 

Is this understandable (hehe). Please give your ideas and comments.

 

There's a huge problem with that system though.

 

 

Say your base is in Berenzino(only name I know) in the police station for instance.

Someone goes there on another server, to get loot then hop to another server, the standard.

They come to your server and suddenly they're spawned outside the radius somewhere.

 

At that point they know a base was at the police station so they can come right over and kill you.

 

 

I think there are enough places in the game for it to be possible to stay safe almost forever you just need to be smart don't make a base in the city make one in the middle of nowhere, people will still probably spawn in your base at some point but if you pick a good spot it's going to be a rare event.

 

 

The only thing that could work is if they spawn outside this radius when you're playing and you get warned they're there, I guess. Otherwise they just spawn in your base and hopefully can't get locked containers open.

And I wonder if they could make a system where if you find a base and wait for the unsuspecting fool to spawn in you get "kicked" out the base so they have time to prepare.

 

Of course these things make no sense that's not happening in real life but nor does spawning and it's unfair to be able to just wait for someone to magically appear in their home and take them out.

 

Another thing that could potentially works is form up a radius when the players doors are locked, other players can still get in but with the right tools only.

[DemonGroover 8836]

Yep, as UltimateGentleman says  - if i spawn in and suddenly find myself 30 metres away from where i should have been, my eyes would light up and i would immediately thoroughly search an area because i know a base would be located somewhere nearby.

 

Not sure on a solution though.

[massacrorBKK 64]

Yeah. Seems like there is no solution to this problem, if you spawn not directly where you log off, then you know you was in a base radius.

 

But as you said UltimateGentleman smart people will build base in the middle of nowhere and then the chance that something like this happen is very small. On another hand, base build in cities will be found with or without the radius.

 

I was thinking about this system more for people that would build a big base. Imagine a clan decide to take a whole village, then it would be weird that zombies and loot still spawning in this village. 

Edited October 26, 2014 by massacrorBKK

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

So, around a base object (a tent, a crafted palisade, a bed...) we could have a invisible circle or spheric radius (maybe 20-30 meters) that disable any spawning. It prevents spawning of players and disable server spawning of zombies and loot inside the zone.

I am not sure that 20-30m spawn radius will work for all building (or if large bases will be possible).

 

Then the way for the base owner to be allowed to spawn inside the radius is by crafting a bed. The bed could give you an option (tent should have the same option) to quit the server and then when you coming back on this particular server it allows you to spawn near the bed and inside the anti-spawn zone.

Sounds like the mechanic that Rust use.

 

There's a huge problem with that system though.

 

Say your base is in Berenzino(only name I know) in the police station for instance.

Someone goes there on another server, to get loot then hop to another server, the standard.

They come to your server and suddenly they're spawned outside the radius somewhere.

 

At that point they know a base was at the police station so they can come right over and kill you.

So what if what if you are alerted to the presence of the base, it would be the same if you spawn in the middle of it, at least this way you'd have to come through the front door and deal with any locked doors etc. Giving the player a chance\warning.

Because the ability to intentionally ghost into a corner of his base and promptly kill him is FAR worse problem, and without fixing it, there will be no real future for base building, IMO.

 

smart people will build base in the middle of nowhere and then the chance that something like this happen is very small. On another hand, base build in cities will be found with or without the radius.

Sound like a poor design, if the only way to maintain bases is by hiding them. You'll get many "smart" people using exploits to hide their bases behind private paywall or on low pop servers, ghosting to them so that other wont see them coming ...

Which is why I'd hardly call the current mechanic as base building. Its more a tactical tool, that I doubt that wil be expanded much further without big changes.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Mor

[a_ruttle 199]

Never really liked the concept of fortified bases in the mod, The map as it is is too small for hiding vehicles and there isn't enough empty wilderness left imo.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

So what if what if you are alerted to the presence of the base, it would be the same if you spawn in the middle of it, at least this way you'd have to come through the front door and deal with any locked doors etc. Giving the player a chance\warning.

Because the ability to intentionally ghost into a corner of his base and promptly kill him is FAR worse problem, and without fixing it, there will be no real future for base building, IMO.

Well, that depends on how much a base looks like a base if you can just use containers like cupboards in a house you could make it look like nobody lives there.

Maybe the person just logged out in that house for refuge, log in maybe have a look around and then leave like any other building.

Of course if there was boxes of stuff stacked around they'd know it was a base.

 

I think there shouldn't be so much base "building" as there is "claiming" houses that were already built etc.

Barricades etc, fence walls if they'll be a thing shit like that should be something it's only wise to make if you're in a group living somewhere in the middle of nowhere.

 

 

I like the idea of base building but server hopping needs abolished somehow first.

Someone can lock all their shit in a house then go off to other servers and collect more, their base on the other server is locked so nobody will get in with the right tools anyway. Bases will just be stupid safe zones for server hoppers.

 

I guess the only option would be is for you to have 1 character per server so you can't take any loot from another server at all.

Could get kind of annoying but once you found a trustworthy, functional server with a population you like it'd be decent.

[Anthony_Dayz 15]

How about just tie down your character to one server?

 

EDIT: Guess I should have read the post above me...

Edited October 26, 2014 by Anthony_Dayz

[Conrad_The_Comrade 577]

Maybe you shouldn't be allowed to log out of the game in any building, whether it be a base or not (Unless it is your base), that way no one thinks anything of spawning outside the building?

[UltimateGentleman 355]

How about just tie down your character to one server?

 

EDIT: Guess I should have read the post above me...

:P

I think the only issue with that is where all your character info is stored if you play on 50 servers that's probably a lot of data in your folders and if it was server side it could get laggy with hundreds of players being saved on to it.

 

But it's the best solution I can think of, the only issue is if a server gets very popular you won't be able to go on it much and access your main dude...

 

 

Maybe you shouldn't be allowed to log out of the game in any building, whether it be a base or not (Unless it is your base), that way no one thinks anything of spawning outside the building?

But there's a delay between spawning and being able to move, where in which zombies can come attack you or you might just spawn next to them that'd be annoying.

 

Plus if they add sleeping you need to be able to log out in a bed.

 

The only other thing that could work is if you can't see any base items until you get a certain distance away unless you own the place.

Like the base isn't there essentially you can open doors and such and leave as normal so long as the player that lives there isn't there. And if they are I guess just spawn outside the base.

[degude 133]

I guess the only option would be is for you to have 1 character per server so you can't take any loot from another server at all.

Could get kind of annoying but once you found a trustworthy, functional server with a population you like it'd be decent.

 

How about just tie down your character to one server?

Well, the Devs actually want you to visit different servers to find your loot, I'm just saying "central loot economy"

 

 

So, around a base object (a tent, a crafted palisade, a bed...) we could have a invisible circle or spheric radius (maybe 20-30 meters) that disable any spawning.

I like this idea...

Yep, as UltimateGentleman says  - if i spawn in and suddenly find myself 30 metres away from where i should have been, my eyes would light up and i would immediately thoroughly search an area because i know a base would be located somewhere nearby.

... and I'm aware of this problem.

 

So here's my idea:

So spawning inside a base is a complete no-go! Since you will be able to build a base anywhere on the map (especially in houses), it can't be prevented that players will spawn inside bases when they'll spawn in the exact same location. This technique could even be used to get inside a locked base. So only way around this is a different spawn point nearby when you should spawn inside a base, but then we have to problem that the player will know that there is a base nearby. To solve this problem each respawn could make you spawn at a different point nearby, so you can't tell anymore that you would have spawned in a base. This has some onther benefit too, each respawn brings more risk, so a server hoppers life will be harder ;) :P

 

Maybe the new respawn system could make you always spawn outside, so the ghosting problem would be solved too.  :thumbsup:

[Roshi (DayZ) 397]

I think that the way DayZ is right now (and assuming that the Devs continue to avoid arbitrary game rules) then the best way to protect your base is to choose an out of the way location and use camouflage. The only other option that I see as plausible is barricading already existing structures (although

barricades should be quite amenable to being destroyed/broken). No place in DayZ should be completely safe.

[Conrad_The_Comrade 577]

:P

I think the only issue with that is where all your character info is stored if you play on 50 servers that's probably a lot of data in your folders and if it was server side it could get laggy with hundreds of players being saved on to it.

 

But it's the best solution I can think of, the only issue is if a server gets very popular you won't be able to go on it much and access your main dude...

 

 

But there's a delay between spawning and being able to move, where in which zombies can come attack you or you might just spawn next to them that'd be annoying.

 

Plus if they add sleeping you need to be able to log out in a bed.

 

The only other thing that could work is if you can't see any base items until you get a certain distance away unless you own the place.

Like the base isn't there essentially you can open doors and such and leave as normal so long as the player that lives there isn't there. And if they are I guess just spawn outside the base.

 

We really don't know if we're going to spawn near a pre-existing zombie or not anyways, it's a gamble, this would just make it a little bit more since you can't cower inside a room or the like. Just be smart about where you disconnect, that and I never said anything about beds, I don't think those are necessary unless they actually add sleep deprivation, which I doubt. I'm just saying we should be able to log out in our own bases. But a flaw I just thought of in my own idea is what if we have friends/clans/groups that want to log out inside too? It's all a pain. Best solution would be a different characters across servers.

[massacrorBKK 64]

I'm just saying we should be able to log out in our own bases.

 

That's the all problem. How the server knows it's your base. That's why I talk about the bed stuff. You can log out by using the bed, then the system knows that you was inside that base (whatever if you got the keys or you break in). Then you are allowed to spawn back inside and clans or groups can share base.

Edited October 27, 2014 by massacrorBKK

[Conrad_The_Comrade 577]

That's the all problem. How the server knows it's your base. That's why I talk about the bed stuff. You can log out by using the bed, then the system knows that you was inside that base (whatever if you got the keys or you break in). Then you are allowed to spawn back inside and clans or groups can share base.

xD Fair enough, but what if an "enemy" makes a bed in your base and you have no clue?

[massacrorBKK 64]

xD Fair enough, but what if an "enemy" makes a bed in your base and you have no clue?

 

I would say, if an enemy make a bed in your base, it means that he found a way to breaked inside in the first place and so it's sound legit to me.

 

This shows another question. What if somebody come in your base and destroy your bed... I think you should be able to log in the next time in the base again but be noticed that your bed have been destroyed. I know this is completely immersion breaking but whatever we do and want this will not stop to be a game and people won't playing it 24/24 7/7... I assume It's still better than having your character staying in the server and sleeping while you log out...

[klesh 2423]

doors locked = no spawn.

[Karmaterror 982]

The answer to this is same as it was in the mod for me....

 

If you want a server to build a camp on, go private hive. The people jumping in and out of servers, anywhere on the map makes it totally useless on the pub hive.

 

If you don't care about camping and just wanna run round shooting stuff for a bit....go pub hive.

 

The painfull truth is that, while its a great concept....the hive itself  is immersion breaking :(

[Roshi (DayZ) 397]

I still think they need to restrict each character to one server. Has been working out for me like that anyway on experimental and, seriously, it's not a big deal. Would solve all the hosting/loot farming nonsense.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Roshi

[The L!ne 31]

I still think they need to restrict each character to one server. Has been working out for me like that anyway on experimental and, seriously, it's not a big deal. Would solve all the hosting/loot farming nonsense.

I think when you implement such things as basebuilding it needs to be done. You can get maybe a character for 1st-person-view and one for 3rd-person-servers but thats it. the Whole problem is: whats happening, when your server only has inactive players attached to it?

 

I think there needs to be something like dynamic-servers with dynamic hives such that you have always active players over the course of 24h. But thats a really complex topic to migrate such things and don't get any kind of conflicts...

[liquidcactus 719]

Never really liked the concept of fortified bases in the mod, The map as it is is too small for hiding vehicles and there isn't enough empty wilderness left imo.

Hell yes I agree, I always cringe at the de-forestation of dayz when new settlements keep popping up through the map. Hopefully whats left of the foresty bits will stay.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I think when you implement such things as basebuilding it needs to be done. You can get maybe a character for 1st-person-view and one for 3rd-person-servers but thats it. the Whole problem is: whats happening, when your server only has inactive players attached to it?

 

I think there needs to be something like dynamic-servers with dynamic hives such that you have always active players over the course of 24h. But thats a really complex topic to migrate such things and don't get any kind of conflicts...

Yeah I remember I downloaded a Game of Thrones world people made for Minecraft to run on my server, but it totally fucked up my Minecraft because the data of the like 800 people who made the thing was on it so I had to delete them first.

 

I guess they could do things like if you're not on for a month your character gets wiped? There'd still be build up but it would help. Or if it's all just stored on your computer in encrypted files so when you join that server it loads your shit...but then if someone has made a base while you were away that's two bases occupying the same area...

Stored on your own computer would save a lot of space though, maybe server side there could be just enough that it knows player A made a base in that house so when player A comes back it loads up again.

 

 

Fuck knows there's problems with that too base building just doesn't seem viable for public servers.

But if you want to build one on a private server, your character should be stuck there it's freaking retarded being able to warp in to other realities and stock up on everything you need.