Emotions-Possible KOS Deterrent

[con_hathy (DayZ) 8]

As a possible deterrent for people to kill on sight, KOS, I think that DayZ should implement a sort of emotion system.

 

In the apocalypse you might be willing to do things you wouldn't normally, but your most basic morals would probably remain intact. Adding these basic eye for eye instinctive morals into DayZ might deter KOSing as well as make the experience more realistic. 

 

-Killing innocents would have a negative effect  :(

-Killing bandits would have a positive effect  :)

-Trading/Socializing has a positive effect (limited)  :)

-Recreational activities (camping, music, etc.) could be added to have a positive effect (limited)  :)

-Antidepressants have a positive effect (limited)  :)

-Emotions return to neutral over time  :|

 

Better "bandit" system than the mod:  :ph34r:

-Accounts for the status of the person you shoot 

-Detects firing in the general direction of a player, even if you miss 

-Accounts for socializing, trading, and generally providing aid  :beans:

 

-Happiness speeds up work (running, crafting, etc.) 

-Sadness slows work 

-Joy increases health and may heighten senses (better vision/hearing), as well as speeding up work 

-Depression slows work dramatically, and if bad enough can cause you to become suicidal, requiring the player to convince the character not to do it.(I don't know how yet)

-Depression might reach a point where the character can not be stopped and will kill themselves (I know it is dark, but it's the apocalypse, and it is intended to get gear out of the hands of players who hunt others and generally makes their lives hard) 

 

IMPORTANT:

-You can still be a bandit, though you might want to hold people up rather than kill them, but major consequences only come into play if you are hunting down players looking for people to kill.

 

[liquidcactus 719]

hmmmm...... some of what you say is ok but I thought this thread was going to go into detail about physical face emotion like frowning smiling etc haha

Edited October 26, 2014 by liquidcactus

[chodeofwar 145]

[pale1776 375]

Yeah, some people cry when you suggest taking the little letters that say "Where kids and the mentally anguished kill for fun and ruin the game because theyre too pro for Arma" off the end of DayZ.

But those are tje same ones who cry about hunger and thirst, weather, and zombies so dont worry. Cause theyll all rage quit by full release because its too hard :p

[-Gews- 7443]

At that point it would feel more like I'm looking after some Tamagotchi. The game shouldn't give you fake emotions. And if they ever forced me to wiggle around with freshpawns and play guitar by a campfire just so my character didn't automatically commit suicide you can be damn sure I'd uninstall and wait for someone to mod that shit out :lol:

[Jfiles 439]

Could not have put it better

[con_hathy (DayZ) 8]

At that point it would feel more like I'm looking after some Tamagotchi. The game shouldn't give you fake emotions. And if they ever forced me to wiggle around with freshpawns and play guitar by a campfire just so my character didn't automatically commit suicide you can be damn sure I'd uninstall and wait for someone to mod that shit out :lol:

Like I said that is just to get gear out of the hands of people who hunt fresh spawns, if you don't do that than you're fine

[con_hathy (DayZ) 8]

Yeah, some people cry when you suggest taking the little letters that say "Where kids and the mentally anguished kill for fun and ruin the game because theyre too pro for Arma" off the end of DayZ.

But those are tje same ones who cry about hunger and thirst, weather, and zombies so dont worry. Cause theyll all rage quit by full release because its too hard :P

My only fear is that making it too hard will make people even less trusting because it is so much work to stay alive.

[rybec 339]

There's nothing you can add that will deter people from killing anyone not in the teamspeak channel or skype call that won't create some issue the community would want to deal with.

 

No reason not to shoot the next guy I'll see. I'll never play with him again anyways. You could go talk to him and potentially find out he's a cool guy then friends and chat on Teamspeak all the time while you play other games like Red Orchestra and Wargame as well as DayZ, but who wants to make friends?

[nokyookami 63]

hmmmm...... some of what you say is ok but I thought this thread was going to go into detail about physical face emotion like frowning smiling etc haha

same xD

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I wouldn't like being restricted by some emotion system that impacts my gameplay...

 

I don't like people at all seeing them die doesn't bother me, I wouldn't go killing them and don't in the game only when necessary but it wouldn't make me depressed so why should it in game? "emotion" is a bad way to do it in my opinion.

 

That gut feeling idea was the best one I feel.

 

If someone has killed tons of people you get a message saying "this guy seems wrong/crazy" so what you would take from your real life visual feedback the game tells you, it doesn't negatively impact the "bad" player or buff the "good" player but it gives everyone an indication of who or what they might be dealing with.

[AP_Norris 1018]

As the game gets harder people will work together, encounters will become more personal as ammunition becomes scarce.

[AP_Norris 1018]

I wouldn't like being restricted by some emotion system that impacts my gameplay...

 

I don't like people at all seeing them die doesn't bother me, I wouldn't go killing them and don't in the game only when necessary but it wouldn't make me depressed so why should it in game? "emotion" is a bad way to do it in my opinion.

 

That gut feeling idea was the best one I feel.

 

If someone has killed tons of people you get a message saying "this guy seems wrong/crazy" so what you would take from your real life visual feedback the game tells you, it doesn't negatively impact the "bad" player or buff the "good" player but it gives everyone an indication of who or what they might be dealing with.

I think the gut feeling gives the best gameplay for sure.

But i just wanted to say that serial killers can appear absolutely normal to everybody around them, and then there's the thing about death. Sure you might not be doing it but it could still have an effect. Train drivers very often have to witness people trying to beat them across the tracks and dying. There is literally nothing the conducter can do except begin slowing down and sound the horn. It is completely the car drivers fault he died, yet the train driver takes a massive hit to his mental health.

Try telling someone involved in a war death isn't a terrible depressive thing to be greeted by everyday.

The way I think about it is that in an apocalypse scenario you would have to be a bit crazy, you would have to quickly get used to people around you dying, not eating for days on end, being covered in the blood of zombies and doing terrible things to survive.

Nobody should be able to stay alive in dayZ without being a bit messed up if we do get an emotion system.

If we get such a thing it should be more about a gritty character development and not character restriction.

Imagine you wake up on the beach, you see a man standing there you should help, he turns and sprints at you blood out his eyes and all over him, you have to kill him to survive. I'm not lying when I say I'd probably loose my guts at the sight of him or a zombie munching on a body.

[General Zod 1118]

We already have a gut feeling, it's not in game mechanics, it's in your head and goes like this :

Do I know this guys ?

No

Is he aiming at me ? 

Yes

Am I in a hot zone (airfield, police station) ?

Yes 

 

Gut feeling identification complete, this guy is clear and present threat. 

Now if he's good enough to conceal his true intentions, he deservers to get you to drop your guard down, and not having the game betray him. 

You want to know if he's a killer ? Use your own observation, rather than just having the game lay it out for you. In real life you don't have a clear message pop out in you field of vision saying this guy is going to mug me. You need to judge the situation yourself and he will try to fool you. 

No easy mode. 

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I think the gut feeling gives the best gameplay for sure.

The way I think about it is that in an apocalypse scenario you would have to be a bit crazy, you would have to quickly get used to people around you dying, not eating for days on end, being covered in the blood of zombies and doing terrible things to survive.

Nobody should be able to stay alive in dayZ without being a bit messed up if we do get an emotion system.

If we get such a thing it should be more about a gritty character development and not character restriction.

Imagine you wake up on the beach, you see a man standing there you should help, he turns and sprints at you blood out his eyes and all over him, you have to kill him to survive. I'm not lying when I say I'd probably loose my guts at the sight of him or a zombie munching on a body.

Oh yeah no, I agree with that for sure some kind of depression and/or "stress" would be great but it shouldn't negatively impact you from killing players.

 

Being attacked constantly, near death, starving etc should have you fairly messed up no matter your level of sanity, it'd be great if we got the shakes from all that trauma.

 

We already have a gut feeling, it's not in game mechanics, it's in your head and goes like this :

Do I know this guys ?

No

Is he aiming at me ? 

Yes

Am I in a hot zone (airfield, police station) ?

Yes 

 

Gut feeling identification complete, this guy is clear and present threat. 

Now if he's good enough to conceal his true intentions, he deservers to get you to drop your guard down, and not having the game betray him. 

You want to know if he's a killer ? Use your own observation, rather than just having the game lay it out for you. In real life you don't have a clear message pop out in you field of vision saying this guy is going to mug me. You need to judge the situation yourself and he will try to fool you. 

No easy mode. 

As if it's so easy as that those 3 questions aren't good enough to decide if you should kill someone on sight they could be anyone just because they run up to you doesn't mean they're going to attack you, they probably will but not always they could be new or actually nice.

 

That's not what the gut feeling I mean describes, just because the dude "seems a little off" doesn't mean he is going to attack you it means be on guard.

If people look at it so black and white as he's a bad guy kill him, they're idiots.

 

And it'd be pretty blatant whether or not someone is crazy in a world like this you don't get time to prepare lies you're not sitting at home on a couch all comfortable you'd be on edge, hungry, shaky.

You CAN'T use your own observation in the game because it lacks the detail the person would have in that situation.

 

Nobody would stroll up to you in a suit looking all normal with a suave accent and then gut you it'd be blatantly obvious they were nuts.

 

Stop acting like people in the game act like people would in an apocalyptic survival situation, they're at home eating Cheetos and drinking Mountain Dew playing a game, it's not hard to lie at all they're not under any pressure to fight for their lives.

[DMentMan 707]

ummm... no

[General Zod 1118]

As if it's so easy as that those 3 questions aren't good enough to decide if you should kill someone on sight they could be anyone just because they run up to you doesn't mean they're going to attack you, they probably will but not always they could be new or actually nice.

 

That's not what the gut feeling I mean describes, just because the dude "seems a little off" doesn't mean he is going to attack you it means be on guard.

If people look at it so black and white as he's a bad guy kill him, they're idiots.

 

And it'd be pretty blatant whether or not someone is crazy in a world like this you don't get time to prepare lies you're not sitting at home on a couch all comfortable you'd be on edge, hungry, shaky.

You CAN'T use your own observation in the game because it lacks the detail the person would have in that situation.

 

Nobody would stroll up to you in a suit looking all normal with a suave accent and then gut you it'd be blatantly obvious they were nuts.

 

Stop acting like people in the game act like people would in an apocalyptic survival situation, they're at home eating Cheetos and drinking Mountain Dew playing a game, it's not hard to lie at all they're not under any pressure to fight for their lives.

Isn't the gut feeling black and white ? You get a clear message saying that this guy is a killer. Doesn't get more black and white than this. 

 

Well there it is. You either kill those who run up to you and don't take any risk. Or you don't kill them and take the risk. It's up to you. Same as dropping your guard. You shouldn't be told if you can do that by in game message, it's should be your own choice based on your own observation and at your own risk.

I kill people who ran up to me, fuck you I don't know you, keep your distance, I don't want to be your friend, I won't give you food or water, I won't bandage you. If you give any reason to think you are a danger to me I will drop you where you stand. 

 

Prepared lies don't work, there are too many assumption with those, best lies are improvised. I know I'm a great liar. 

Yes in real life you might have clues, CLUES not clear message saying he's crazy. 

Truth is most psychopaths appear to be normal functioning members of society, and very often very good at hiding their true nature. They might seem a bit more cold or distant when you get to know them. But that's mostly it. 

 

Which is why any gut feeling system is bad. Because it removes the element of deception. 

Edited October 26, 2014 by General Zod

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

Hunting is a recreational activity, even hunting long pigs.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Isn't the gut feeling black and white ? You get a clear message saying that this guy is a killer. Doesn't get more black and white than this. 

 

Well there it is. You either kill those who run up to you and don't take any risk. Or you don't kill them and take the risk. It's up to you. Same as dropping your guard. You shouldn't be told if you can do that by in game message, it's should be your own choice based on your own observation and at your own risk.

I kill people who ran up to me, fuck you I don't know you, keep your distance, I don't want to be your friend, I won't give you food or water, I won't bandage you. If you give any reason to think you are a danger to me I will drop you where you stand. 

 

Prepared lies don't work, there are too many assumption with those, best lies are improvised. I know I'm a great liar. 

Yes in real life you might have clues, CLUES not clear message saying he's crazy. 

Truth is most psychopaths appear to be normal functioning members of society, and very often very good at hiding their true nature. They might seem a bit more cold or distant when you get to know them. But that's mostly it. 

 

Which is why any gut feeling system is bad. Because it removes the element of deception. 

No if you read the topic that's not what I was talking about, all I want it to say is something along the lines of "This guy gives me a strange feeling" you know he's probably killed people, not necessarily going to kill you.

Not "Quick kill him now!"

 

But you can't observe in the game that's the problem you can't see what you would see in that world you hear a relaxed person talking to you normally, mostly. You don't see the tired and desperate individual they would be and if they don't have voice chat you can't tell anything at all you get an extremely basic way to tell if they're going to attack you and only if they're idiots and let it slip.

 

And I know what you mean I'm pretty much a sociopath but that doesn't mean psycho or sociopaths would completely hold it together when they're day to day surviving they wouldn't be relaxed when they've been attacked by zombies, been shot at, been cutting up people and whatever else. If someone was like that in the DayZ world their switch would be flipped you would see and hear that they're on edge.

 

The people playing this game generally I hope aren't actual psychopaths they're just being loltastic badasses they don't expertly hide their intentions due to a life of hiding who they are they can talk to you normally then switch their voice chat off for a few seconds to laugh at you and discuss with their bro's how they should mess with you.

It doesn't work like how it would in real life so voice chat alone is a very poor way to determine what people are.

 

So gut feeling makes up for what the game lacks in emotional and physical characteristics that the people definitely would have but don't because they're at home in real life.

[General Zod 1118]

I know what you want, and I understand that in game some insights and hints might not be available, I understand that perfectly, but you must understand that "This guy gives me a strange feeling you know he's probably killed people" is still too obvious, because I cannot try to fool you, I cannot deceive you. 

So your idea gives you an advantage, and puts bandits in disadvantage. Because everyone will straight up know that I am a bandit. Nothing I can do about that. This is simply unfair. And devs already said they don't want any straight up identification of good or bad players. 

Edited October 26, 2014 by General Zod

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I know what you want, and I understand that in game some insights and hints might not be available, I understand that perfectly, but you must understand that "This guy gives me a strange feeling you know he's probably killed people" is still too obvious, because I cannot try to fool you, I cannot deceive you. 

So your idea gives you an advantage, and puts bandits in disadvantage. Because everyone will straight up know that I am a bandit. Nothing I can do about that. This is simply unfair. And devs already said they don't want any straight up identification of good or bad players. 

I mean the message as "This guy gives me a strange feeling" not that bit on the end.

 

It's still not definite they might have killed someone that looked threatening it'd be dumb not to shoot a fully geared guy with an AKM going door to door. Of course people would often just shoot them right away but it'd cut down the amount of people that do and gradually create a somewhat more friendly playerbase while also retaining the douchebags, it'd be lame if nobody was a killer but as near as makes no difference everyone is.

 

So it's not necessarily an indication of who's bad but who's damaged from killing various amounts of people, or those who have helped people.

 

As long as the messages were vague it'd be ok "this guy seems alright" "I feel like I shouldn't turn my back on him"

That guy seems alright.

He might still shoot you in the face after you make a trade though, he doesn't want the item he needs getting ruined after all.

And as I said in that topic positive messages should be limited to one or two nothing like "this guy has max karma from giving bandages to people he won't shoot me"

 

Even if people are doing positive actions to just be a dick to the next guy that comes along that still ups the amount of friendly, even if false interactions. Then maybe everyone wouldn't be so geared towards murdering everything.

[General Zod 1118]

But you will know why those messages are there, it's not like you can get false impression. So it does not matter if the message is vague, you know that it's there because this guy killed a lot. So it might as well be saying this guy killed 20 people, he's a KoSer, shoot. It makes no difference.

[con_hathy (DayZ) 8]

I know what you want, and I understand that in game some insights and hints might not be available, I understand that perfectly, but you must understand that "This guy gives me a strange feeling you know he's probably killed people" is still too obvious, because I cannot try to fool you, I cannot deceive you. 

So your idea gives you an advantage, and puts bandits in disadvantage. Because everyone will straight up know that I am a bandit. Nothing I can do about that. This is simply unfair. And devs already said they don't want any straight up identification of good or bad players. 

The system wouldn't tell the player who was a bandit, you could still tell people you're friendly. And like I said, killing a few people is fine, it won't really have negative effects unless you camp and snipe or ambush everyone that goes into an area. 

[xenology 61]

If you have morals killing someone even if they're a bandit doesnt make you feel better even in an Apocalypse. Secondly they'd need to add traits in or even make it so that killing over time numbs them as it would in real life.

[General Zod 1118]

The system wouldn't tell the player who was a bandit, you could still tell people you're friendly. And like I said, killing a few people is fine, it won't really have negative effects unless you camp and snipe or ambush everyone that goes into an area. 

How else would you describe getting a message saying : "I feel like I shouldn't turn my back on him" ?

This is straight up tell that he done some bad stuff. 

If I see that message it won't matter what he said. He can lie, and your system does not. It's based on cold hard facts.