Shoes in experimental

[dgeesio 1034]

It's a first implementation of an absolutely necessary mechanic.

 

I'm very interested in seeing how it develops. Different footwear should allow different running speeds on different terrains, and have different levels of comfort, waterproofing and durability, eventually.

 

It'll add a lot to the game, especially in its feeling of authenticity - the condition of your feet would in reality be probably the most important consideration in this scenario, after food and water.

 

EDIT: of course you should never die from having bad feet, but that could be said about many other mechanics that are/will be in the game as well. Sudden unconsciousness/death from any and all maladies is something that needs to be changed at some point - but I'm assuming it will be?

the thing is with every gret idea does it translate to good gameplay ?

 

in many cases it just complicates gameplay.

 

when you play many games you realize that you want things as simple as possible not more complicated.

 

 

people are talking about show damage shoe speeds is this now shoez?

 

how fast will shoes deteriate ? i know that a decent pair of trainers will last a year even with light running is that going to be the case in game ? of course not they ll speed it up which defies the very realistic point that people are trying to argue to even add this !

 

concentrate on getting the basics right first. leave shoes alone.

 

as for losing health from shoes wtf ? really. as said the time you would need to spend running and even on rough terrain to damage your feet would take a lot of time more than avg person even spends in dayz. before the shoe specialists come in cause there is bound to be some i did running and athletics daily for many yearss to high standards and cross country and orienteering.

[Whyherro123 2283]

the thing is with every gret idea does it translate to good gameplay ?

 

in many cases it just complicates gameplay.

 

when you play many games you realize that you want things as simple as possible not more complicated.

 

 

people are talking about show damage shoe speeds is this now shoez?

 

how fast will shoes deteriate ? i know that a decent pair of trainers will last a year even with light running is that going to be the case in game ? of course not they ll speed it up which defies the very realistic point that people are trying to argue to even add this !

 

concentrate on getting the basics right first. leave shoes alone.

 

as for losing health from shoes wtf ? really. as said the time you would need to spend running and even on rough terrain to damage your feet would take a lot of time more than avg person even spends in dayz. before the shoe specialists come in cause there is bound to be some i did running and athletics daily for many yearss to high standards and cross country and orienteering.

For your training, you probably (DEFINITELY) had a pair of shoes that fit correctly, and provided proper padding and support. You also probably "broke in" these shoes first before doing any running in them. I would know: I did varsity Track (X-Country, Indoor and Outdoor), as well as backpacking, hiking, and orienteering. I've broken in PLENTY of shoes, both athletic and outdoors.

 

In Day Z, we don't have that. We pick up a random pair of shoes and throw them on. Are they properly arched? Are they wide enough? In real life, if you wear shoes of the right size, but not of the right arch and width, you will be in agony. I would know: I have perfectly flat feet, which are also very wide. If I wear any shoes other than my own, I pretty much can't walk the next day.

 

Do me a favor; put on a pair of loose, ill-fitting shoes. Then, walk 100m on a sidewalk, then on a rocky path, then through the woods, then up and down hills (make sure your feet are sliding around nice and good inside the shoes). Now do that every day, for the next week. Tell me exactly how you feel after that week.

 

There is reason people learn how to make/sell shoes for specific feet. It isn't for fun.

 

I am all for this. It just has to be.......toned down a bit, like almost every "survival" aspect of the game. I don't want my shoes to fall apart after 5 minutes, but I don't want to be okie-dokie after wearing a random pair of trainers over the hills, through the woods, and down that stream.

[Grundlesmuggler 41]

NOOOOO MY J's!!!!!!

 

http://dayz-standalone.wikia.com/wiki/Jogging_shoes

[ChainReactor 922]

Yes I realize things like item degradation, food, drink and weather to name a few are in testing but the moment people speak out about it or try voice their opinions its met with the same old rhetoric of its alpha or some other nonsensical drivel.

 

 

Because it's often enough not some nonsensical drivel. Let me give you another one for this specific case: It's experimental. Really, some things make much more sense when you know about the reasons why they are how they are. Let me explain a bit further.

 

 

People come here to vent their frustrations and try to give feedback on things they think are working or not working. If no one said what was wrong with the game, we'd all still be dying from hypothermia 5 minutes after respawn or dying from starvation or lack of water in the same time frame.

And thats where i will repeat that we are talking about a first iteration on the experimental branch. There is nothing wrong with degradation speed because it's more than likely intentionally. Experimental is the testing branch for the devs, not for the players. First iteration: Check if the mechanic works as intended, runs properly through its different stages and if it causes any trouble to a larger number of players ( like CTD's, Status lockups or anything alike). This is data you want to gather quickly because bugs here indicate that there is a problem with the mechanic itself and that should be solved with the next update pushed to the branch.

 

TL;DR, the topic we are discussing here is nothing wrong, its not a bug, its not broken. It's a method for the devs to gather data they need on the current iteration as quick as possible. It's annoying sometimes, but everyone who opt's in to experimental should be aware of that. Experimental is no exclusive showcase of the new stuff for the players who can't wait. It's unstable by definition and doesn't have gameplay and a nice gaming experience in mind.

 

With that all being said:

 

 

If no one said what was wrong with the game, we'd all still be dying from hypothermia 5 minutes after respawn or dying from starvation or lack of water in the same time frame.

 

I highly doubt it. As I said, it's often intentionally to speed up that stuff on experimental. Remember, the devs have a self-set timeframe of one week for the next update. How likely are you to get the data you want from a large group of players when the effects and mechanics you implemented only work when every player spends 100 hours in the game without other problems like death to players or bugs that will reset said mechanic ( works for any of your examples: hunger / thirst, weather effects and shoe degradation )?

Edited October 23, 2014 by ChainReactor

[OrganGrinder 89]

It's not something we need, no, but it is another element of immersion. Shoes shouldn't be indestructible, but they do need to dial-back the wear rate significantly for a Stable release. Hopefully they get enough data from a week of testing in Experimental to make that happen.

I'm not even sure about the immersion value.  If it takes a hundred hours to *realistically* wear down a pair of shoes that your feet hurt then maybe it just doesn't need to be a factor in this "immersive" game.  So I agree with Jexter's point on this one.

 

Christ, I woud think I'd be seriously ill of an infected tooth ache from eating all the peaches and Cap'n Crunch without brushing for a few hundred hours.  And let's not even consider the ill effects of drinking hundreds of cans of Pipsi that have been sitting out on the black-tar roofs of buildings in the hot sun.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I'm not even sure about the immersion value.  If it takes a hundred hours to *realistically* wear down a pair of shoes that your feet hurt then maybe it just doesn't need to be a factor in this "immersive" game.  So I agree with Jexter's point on this one.

 

Christ, I woud think I'd be seriously ill of an infected tooth ache from eating all the peaches and Cap'n Crunch without brushing for a few hundred hours.  And let's not even consider the ill effects of drinking hundreds of cans of Pipsi that have been sitting out on the black-tar roofs of buildings in the hot sun.

Annnnd that is why I have a collapsible toothbrush and a small tube of toothpaste in my survival kit, alongside hand sanitizer, sani-napkins, and other personal hygiene supplies.

 

Personal hygiene is important, kids. ESPECIALLY in a survival situation.

[Shelledfade 10]

this is idiotic.

[Whyherro123 2283]

this is idiotic.

Great contribution to the thread, mate.

[Tatanko 5591]

I'm not even sure about the immersion value.  If it takes a hundred hours to *realistically* wear down a pair of shoes that your feet hurt then maybe it just doesn't need to be a factor in this "immersive" game.  So I agree with Jexter's point on this one.

 

Christ, I woud think I'd be seriously ill of an infected tooth ache from eating all the peaches and Cap'n Crunch without brushing for a few hundred hours.  And let's not even consider the ill effects of drinking hundreds of cans of Pipsi that have been sitting out on the black-tar roofs of buildings in the hot sun.

Oh believe me, I question the added value of this particular wear-and-tear to the game. I was perfectly content with shoes not wearing down, or at least imperceptibly wearing down (as in real life). I just enjoy a good discussion, so I play devil's advocate once in a while.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Tatanko

[ryanincalgary 20]

It's an okay mechanic but a pair of boots should last hundreds of KM. I spawned just outside of Cherno and found a pair of pristine hiking boots and they were damaged by the time I left cherno. The only buildings I hit were the construction site, police station and firehall. No combat. They maybe lasted 1-2KM before they were ruined. Testing of shoes would have taken them 10-15 minutes to know something was wrong before putting it out for a week on experimental.

[Jex 1104]

Not quite sure how you're reading my post as abrasive, perhaps you should remove the tint on your glasses?

Anyway, you didn't answer my question;

Who here has ever had a problem with their shoes, even they're really old crappy shoes from 10 years ago?

I don't much care if the mechanic has just been introduced because I'm saying scrap it. It's such a mundane thing anyway. Nobody is going to be shouting about how cool dayz is because their shoes wear out at an incredibly unrealistic rate.

The whole idea is stupid and wasn't worth implementing and they could have used that development time to fix or fix on other things.

What does this add to the game? Nothing! I've never had any issues with my shoes in my life that has caused me problems. I had a hole in a shoe maybe 4 or 5 years ago and my foot got a little bit wet when it rained. Are we seriously saying that in DayZ, suddenly shoe wear because damaging?

If it can damage you, it can kill you - can't it?

Given the fact that

- There will be shoes everywhere

- you don't need shoes anyway

- nobody is marching 20 km a day with wet feet

- Shoes in real life do not hinder you in anyway unless half of the shoe is missing

- CLOGS!

It's as asinine as making u have a bogey up your nose you have to pick or you can't breath as well and you slow down a little bit.

I'm struggling to come up with a valid reason for this because it seems like a colossal waste of time and entirely mundane.

You'll need to elaborate the "problems" which I bet are nothing like they are in dayz. Saying that though, you just get another pair of shoes which in a ZA will be in every empty house.

The point about adding in a cold was to give us something better than "shoe degradation". All that dev time spent on an unrealistic and worthless mechanic could have gone to something else, couldn't it?

Yes I get you on the socks thing but in most temperate climates, you don't need to change socks all the time and your shoes don't need that much care. What you're talking about is being as comfortable as you can and whilst I completely agree "A good soldier is a comfortable soldier" it doesn't relate at all to the mechanic here which is, "your shoes wear at at a ridiculous rate and your going to penalised unrealistically for it too, not to mention it's such a mundane and asinine mechanic that you'll be considered the biggest geek on the planet if you ever point it out as a selling point for DayZ as in, "Yeah it's so awesome your shoes wear out like, all the time and then you can die from it!!"

Shoes don't just suddenly collapse into dust on you, they wear out. When you notice the condition is getting to the stage where you're going to need a new pair, what do you think you're going to do? Think about real life and apply that here and you'll realise why the mechanic is a waste of dev time.

So you're asking everyone here who is well versed, nay, experts I say in shoes and walking to believe that because you had a pair of shoes after walking around for a couple weeks break on you, that all shoes are like that? How about my army boots which I still have today that lasted me 3 years and did a lot more than walking streets. How about my hiking boots that have lasted years or a pair of trainers/sneakers. Nobody here wears out shoes this quickly and everyone here knows it.

Your feet might start to hurt, my feet don't. They did after a 16 mile hike over mountainous terrain with 55lbs in my backpack though the next day, after a nights sleep they were fine again. There is NOTHING authentic about it, pathetic yes, authentic, no.

I have reality on my side to back up my arguments.

M...me...

LOL your shoes killed you?

Edited October 24, 2014 by kichilron

[kichilron 8550]

Considering this is the very first iteration of item-degradation and this mechanic being tested in experimental build I don't want to hear anymore "the degradationrate is unrealistic".

 

It's not supposed to be realistic, it's supposed to be tested right now.

 

The rate of degradation is high up there to check the effects on the player, the health and any major flaws with the system popping up.

 

If you think this mechanic breaks your experience, don't play experimental. There is no point coming here complaining about something that is supposed to be tested right now, so please don't.

 

 

Also - - you know exactly that you're not supposed to do this and you know exactly you have been urged to use MultiQuote.

Edited October 24, 2014 by kichilron

[Thadius (DayZ) 40]

This shoe outrage thing is just one item in a long line of topics that could have been avoided if the developers just made solid attempts to communicate their intents with the playerbase.

 

If they do not come out and say that they intend to only stress test the shoe degradation, people are going to assume that its working as intended, and be upset at what they see as a terrible design decision.

 

Two thirds of the uproars on this forum could be avoided by the developers implementing new and better lines of communications that did not require the average Joe Schmoe Bambi to sift through several sources of obscure information outlets (yes, that includes this forum).

 

On startup, just plaster the patch notes across the screen after a patch with a comment on the intent/purpose of the patch.

 

There, bam, I just solved most of the forum drama that gets generated over patches.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Thadius

[ChainReactor 922]

 

 

If they do not come out and say that they intend to only stress test the shoe degradation, people are going to assume that its working as intended, and be upset at what they see as a terrible design decision.

 

 

We are talking about experimental !

 

Every player who opts in to experimental should know what he is doing and should be able to gather the info's by himself. They are everywhere on the different channels. Also, remember Hick's post concerning this:

 

The branch exists for load/volume/stress testing. Those who go through the process of manually opting into this branch (its not super visible - by design) and dealing with whatever issues the current build on it may have, get to sometimes see content and systems not quite ready for prime time. However, that does not mean that is the branches purpose.

As the nature of the experimental branch is for the above mentioned testing methods, neither uptime, character data, nor stability is guaranteed.

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/210847-what-is-experimental/

 

Sticky post in the Experimental subforum.

 

I really don't know what some players expect when they come play experimental. It's definitely NOT the showroom for new stuff some seem to expect.

Edited October 24, 2014 by ChainReactor

[Tatanko 5591]

Not quite sure how you're reading my post as abrasive, perhaps you should remove the tint on your glasses?

I see you saw my post on the last page after posting this ;)

 

This shoe outrage thing is just one item in a long line of topics that could have been avoided if the developers just made solid attempts to communicate their intents with the playerbase.

 

If they do not come out and say that they intend to only stress test the shoe degradation, people are going to assume that its working as intended, and be upset at what they see as a terrible design decision.

While some things could potentially be explained better, it is just as much a responsibility of the player opting in to Experimental to take it upon themselves to become educated about the development process and adjust their expectations accordingly.

[Jex 1104]

This shoe outrage thing is just one item in a long line of topics that could have been avoided if the developers just made solid attempts to communicate their intents with the playerbase.

 

If they do not come out and say that they intend to only stress test the shoe degradation, people are going to assume that its working as intended, and be upset at what they see as a terrible design decision.

 

Two thirds of the uproars on this forum could be avoided by the developers implementing new and better lines of communications that did not require the average Joe Schmoe Bambi to sift through several sources of obscure information outlets (yes, that includes this forum).

 

On startup, just plaster the patch notes across the screen after a patch with a comment on the intent/purpose of the patch.

 

There, bam, I just solved most of the forum drama that gets generated over patches.

 

I can't agree with this. You're playing an alpha, there's a warning on the screen every time you play telling you it won't work correctly. Anyone arguing about the rate of decay should leave the game alone until it goes gold.

[dgeesio 1034]

Considering this is the very first iteration of item-degradation and this mechanic being tested in experimental build I don't want to hear anymore "the degradationrate is unrealistic".

 

It's not supposed to be realistic, it's supposed to be tested right now.

 

The rate of degradation is high up there to check the effects on the player, the health and any major flaws with the system popping up.

 

If you think this mechanic breaks your experience, don't play experimental. There is no point coming here complaining about something that is supposed to be tested right now, so please don't.

 

 

Also - - you know exactly that you're not supposed to do this and you know exactly you have been urged to use MultiQuote.

so you want people to test shoes but not rage or have thoughts on it ? go play stable if you dont agree how stupid is that. the point is many dont want this added fullstop nevermind dont play/test if you dont agree. listen to people .

 

its basically we adding it regardless whether you like it or not deal with it. the point is many wont want it. things is you dont want people saying this because its being added anyway so lets just forget it.

[kichilron 8550]

so you want people to test shoes but not rage or have thoughts on it ? go play stable if you dont agree how stupid is that. the point is many dont want this added fullstop nevermind dont play/test if you dont agree. listen to people .

 

its basically we adding it regardless whether you like it or not deal with it. the point is many wont want it. things is you dont want people saying this because its being added anyway so lets just forget it.

 

 

It is not even clear that his implementation will be in the final game, as everything is subject to change. This is the very reason it's not worth raging about it. And the feedback being brought forth in this thread isn't constructive feedback about this very early stage of the implementation - it's essentially just "Devs are shit, shoes don't wear down in 30 minutes of game" - and this will not be accepted. Not just because it's a very one-dimensional thought and lazy at that.

 

If you can give constructive feedback leaving out the time it takes to wear down a shoe and how it's implemented at this time you can discuss it all you like. I have given you reasons as to why not discuss the time.

Edited October 24, 2014 by kichilron

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Considering this was talked about a long time, you people have nothing to bitch and cry about.  All items are going to have degradation eventually.  What's next, crying because your gun jams after shooting a few thousand rounds out of it?

[terrvik 2409]

I like it. Of course it is mostly an unbalance annoyance at the moment but that's fine, I like the core design of it. I hope there will be more of a focus of maintaining your gear in the future rather than just sprinting around switching it out until you have it all.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I like it. Of course it is mostly an unbalance annoyance at the moment but that's fine, I like the core design of it. I hope there will be more of a focus of maintaining your gear in the future rather than just sprinting around switching it out until you have it all.

This is what the biggest issue is at the moment.  We've been coddled pretty well during the development and now the developers are cranking up the difficulty a notch and people are making stupid posts non stop about it.

[nokyookami 63]

For your training, you probably (DEFINITELY) had a pair of shoes that fit correctly, and provided proper padding and support. You also probably "broke in" these shoes first before doing any running in them. I would know: I did varsity Track (X-Country, Indoor and Outdoor), as well as backpacking, hiking, and orienteering. I've broken in PLENTY of shoes, both athletic and outdoors.

 

In Day Z, we don't have that. We pick up a random pair of shoes and throw them on. Are they properly arched? Are they wide enough? In real life, if you wear shoes of the right size, but not of the right arch and width, you will be in agony. I would know: I have perfectly flat feet, which are also very wide. If I wear any shoes other than my own, I pretty much can't walk the next day.

 

Do me a favor; put on a pair of loose, ill-fitting shoes. Then, walk 100m on a sidewalk, then on a rocky path, then through the woods, then up and down hills (make sure your feet are sliding around nice and good inside the shoes). Now do that every day, for the next week. Tell me exactly how you feel after that week.

 

There is reason people learn how to make/sell shoes for specific feet. It isn't for fun.

 

I am all for this. It just has to be.......toned down a bit, like almost every "survival" aspect of the game. I don't want my shoes to fall apart after 5 minutes, but I don't want to be okie-dokie after wearing a random pair of trainers over the hills, through the woods, and down that stream.

Arguably we should also Have to Size Clothes too <_<

Unless of Course we all wear Exactly the Same Size  Despite Hight/Build/Gender

Pretty Sure they arent factoring in For that the Shoes are the wrong size or why not do that with all Clothes

But Pretty Sure while Maybe that would be a real issue in a game its unnecessary :huh:

 

[nokyookami 63]

I dont think we Should Die From not wearing shoes or even take damage afdter all Feet are Made for walking and the way our Skin Works it Doesnt Just Reach Ruined Status and thats it we start loosing Blood

Lots of People Dont wear Shoes

Given Maybe Players in DayZ are accustom to Shoes that should only Factor in at the Start Long term Shoes Would not Be a Necessity "Shoes or Death"

Unless we walk through the Broken Glass in the roads and Cities i think
But we Shouldn't Be reliant on Shoes

Not wearing them Has Advantages Like Noise Reduction And not having to Find Shoes

it should Just have a Broad Curve till you Can Have as good of Mobility Like Remove Sprint for the First While Till your Character Adjusts

[Baker. 1484]

Considering this is the very first iteration of item-degradation and this mechanic being tested in experimental build I don't want to hear anymore "the degradationrate is unrealistic".

 

It's not supposed to be realistic, it's supposed to be tested right now.

 

The rate of degradation is high up there to check the effects on the player, the health and any major flaws with the system popping up.

 

If you think this mechanic breaks your experience, don't play experimental. There is no point coming here complaining about something that is supposed to be tested right now, so please don't.

 

 

Also - - you know exactly that you're not supposed to do this and you know exactly you have been urged to use MultiQuote.

Yeah I assumed as much, the more tedium the better. It does feel fast but I have yet to feel any ill effects.

 

And yeah this lol. Why are we playing the branded "experimental" branch of an alpha early access game if we are to be enraged by features in testing?

 

EDIT:

 

it is possible to die from foot illnesses like Bob Marley did.

 

In July 1977, Marley was found to have a type of malignant melanoma under the nail of a toe. Contrary to urban legend, this lesion was not primarily caused by an injury during a football match that year, but was instead a symptom of the already-existing cancer. Marley turned down his doctors' advice to have his toe amputated, citing his religious beliefs, and instead the nail and nail bed were removed and a skin graft taken from his thigh to cover the area. Despite his illness, he continued touring and was in the process of scheduling a world tour in 1980.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Bakermensch

[ChainReactor 922]

And yeah this lol. Why are we playing the branded "experimental" branch of an alpha early access game if we are to be enraged by features in testing?

 

We are not testing, the devs do. You delivered the data they were looking for, most likely if the degradation works as intendet and if there have been bugs that passed through their internal QA in the mechanic itself. They were not testing how long the shoes last because thats a value you can alter quite easily.