Shoes in experimental

[ChainReactor 922]

Trying hard not to be negative but sticking your head in the sand and avoiding things that need fixing helps no one.

 

The thing is, these initial implementations don't need fixing, they need development and tests ( by the devs ). The initial implementation of weather effects was exaggerated too, to check if the effects are all working as they are supposed to do. ( Which is something you don't wanna wait 200 ingame hours for. ) Growing and harvesting tomatoes doesn't only take 10 minutes either, yet noone complained about this one.

 

It's not broken, its in development. ( could be a nice DayZ sticker ).

Edited October 23, 2014 by ChainReactor

[dgeesio 1034]

Running with ruined shoes and barefoot is the same, it will hurt your feet and you lose health.

hopefully the devs dont go overboard with this.

 

you have so many messages popping up on screen now as it is.

 

you havent breathed

you havent eaten

you must go toilet

you must sleep

it is dark

that is a zombie

 

sometimes just playing is better than hand held or told what to do every 2 secs.

[Tatanko 5591]

Doesn't it break immersion? Caring about shoes for a start is so asinine and the rate they decay in real life is years. There's seriously nothing immersive about having to find another pair of shoes after a few hours of running around.

Right, but again, this is just the initial implementation of that effect which needs considerable tweaking. It will be scaled back, you can be assured of that. Once it is, it will be more realistic and therefore worthwhile instead of just being a burden like it currently is. You shouldn't be able to get away with having pristine shoes forever, but the current implementation is most definitely far too unforgiving.

 

hopefully the devs dont go overboard with this.

 

you have so many messages popping up on screen now as it is.

 

you havent breathed

you havent eaten

you must go toilet

you must sleep

it is dark

that is a zombie

 

sometimes just playing is better than hand held or told what to do every 2 secs.

It's a double-edged sword. They could certainly do with reducing the frequency that messages pop up, but without them you'd probably get constant complaints of, "I died and I have no idea why" or "how did my stuff get ruined?!". We need SOME messages, but we could definitely do with fewer of them.

[Jex 1104]

Right, but again, this is just the initial implementation of that effect which needs considerable tweaking. It will be scaled back, you can be assured of that. Once it is, it will be more realistic and therefore worthwhile instead of just being a burden like it currently is. You shouldn't be able to get away with having pristine shoes forever, but the current implementation is most definitely far too unforgiving.

 

 

I've marched miles, hiked miles and my boots are fine. As soon as i've got back from a hike with a new pair of boots, they're not pristine. So what? I'm an expert on walking. I've been doing it all my life and unless the sole has gaping holes in it, a shoe is a shoe. Christ I've run around barefoot plenty of times too. There's nothing authentic about the shoe mechanic in the game and also, if I'm going to have to replace them every 6 months, why even bother?

 

Now think of this - why not put in another illness like the common cold? It doesn't kill you but it will make you slower and you'll burn more food/water too whilst you have it. A far more authentic problem than that of shoes but let's ask the audience.

 

Who here has ever had a problem with their shoes, even they're really old crappy shoes from 10 years ago? By problems I mean they killed you.

[massacrorBKK 64]

First, I understand the shoes degradation and damage on exp now is for testing purpose.

Anyway, I think it is a bit too much that people get damage because of the state of their shoes or wearing no shoes. I think having bad shoes or no shoes should make you run a bit slower cause you have to pay attention but not get any damage even small one.

Then foot damage should come from another place... Wetness. Try to run 10 kilometers with wet combat shoes and this will be a thing your feet will remember...

[pillock 850]

It's a first implementation of an absolutely necessary mechanic.

 

I'm very interested in seeing how it develops. Different footwear should allow different running speeds on different terrains, and have different levels of comfort, waterproofing and durability, eventually.

 

It'll add a lot to the game, especially in its feeling of authenticity - the condition of your feet would in reality be probably the most important consideration in this scenario, after food and water.

 

EDIT: of course you should never die from having bad feet, but that could be said about many other mechanics that are/will be in the game as well. Sudden unconsciousness/death from any and all maladies is something that needs to be changed at some point - but I'm assuming it will be?

Edited October 23, 2014 by Pillock

[Tatanko 5591]

I've marched miles, hiked miles and my boots are fine. As soon as i've got back from a hike with a new pair of boots, they're not pristine. So what? I'm an expert on walking. I've been doing it all my life and unless the sole has gaping holes in it, a shoe is a shoe. Christ I've run around barefoot plenty of times too. There's nothing authentic about the shoe mechanic in the game and also, if I'm going to have to replace them every 6 months, why even bother?

 

Now think of this - why not put in another illness like the common cold? It doesn't kill you but it will make you slower and you'll burn more food/water too whilst you have it. A far more authentic problem than that of shoes but let's ask the audience.

 

Who here has ever had a problem with their shoes, even they're really old crappy shoes from 10 years ago? By problems I mean they killed you.

I'm trying to be rational here, but you're being a tad abrasive. Take a deep breath :) Okay, let's continue:

 

1. The mechanic in the game is only in its initial implementation. This cannot be stressed enough. As explained above, these initial attempts are almost always going to be cranked up to 11 because you get the necessary data and feedback in a much shorter time that way. It absolutely WILL NOT be this bad in Stable, nor the finished game (which is what really matters). Experimental can be brutal; that's just the way it is. It's not even really the "shoe mechanic" yet, it's more like the "shoe idea".

 

2. Lack of shoes, or ruined shoes, will not kill you even right now at the most difficult point in this process. Being in extremely poor condition and then causing yourself additional grief with poor shoes has an extremely small chance of it if you're careless, but AGAIN, it will never be even close to this extreme in its final form. If your character is in otherwise good physical health, the ruined/no shoes are more of a tiny annoyance than anything else. You could even theoretically ignore it (though I don't recommend that).

 

This version of the mechanic, in its very first stages as seen in 125271, cannot be equated with a finished design. Arguing the merits of its realism is futile; most importantly because this isn't real life. Everything in this game has to be designed in the spirit of accelerated time and the effects of that accelerated time. 100% authenticity to real life is NOT the goal.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Tatanko

[Death By Crowbar 1213]

100% authenticity to real life is NOT the goal.

I wouldn't steal someone's shoes in real life, but I will hold you up and steal yours!  :P

[solodude23 649]

Now think of this - why not put in another illness like the common cold? It doesn't kill you but it will make you slower and you'll burn more food/water too whilst you have it. A far more authentic problem than that of shoes but let's ask the audience.

 

Who here has ever had a problem with their shoes, even they're really old crappy shoes from 10 years ago? By problems I mean they killed you.

Pretty sure regular illnesses are already being planned, though I'm not sure how specific they're going to be with it. 

 

And as Tatanko already stated, no one is going to be dying due to ruined shoes or running around barefoot unless you REALLY are trying to (and even then I'm not sure). To answer a realistic question, yes, I absolutely have had problems with shoes and boots alike from less than a year of age to several years of age, depending on the type of shoe and use - and I haven't even been in an apocalypse.  ;)

Edited October 23, 2014 by solodude23

[escobert 112]

It's implemented in exp right now and it's crazy stupid. You need new shoes every 5 minutes. I literately needed around 5 pairs just to hike from elektro to Stary. Food, guns clothes are found easily enough. Shoes however are now a rare commodity.

 

I'm sure it will be adjusted soon.

Edited October 23, 2014 by escobert

[tobias winfro 305]

Yes I realize things like item degradation, food, drink and weather to name a few are in testing but the moment people speak out about it or try voice their opinions its met with the same old rhetoric of its alpha or some other nonsensical drivel.

People come here to vent their frustrations and try to give feedback on things they think are working or not working. If no one said what was wrong with the game, we'd all still be dying from hypothermia 5 minutes after respawn or dying from starvation or lack of water in the same time frame.

[Tatanko 5591]

And as Tatanko already stated, no one is going to be dying due to ruined shoes or running around barefoot unless you REALLY are trying to (and even then I'm not sure).

It's implemented in exp right now and it's crazy stupid. You need new shoes every 5 minutes. I literately needed around 5 pairs just to hike from elektro to Stary. Food, guns clothes are found easily enough. Shoes however are now a rare commodity.

As solodude mentioned, it is definitely possible to survive without worrying about your shoes. You can run barefoot, even, and still be fine. Just keep yourself in good condition otherwise.

 

People come here to vent their frustrations and try to give feedback on things they think are working or not working. If no one said what was wrong with the game, we'd all still be dying from hypothermia 5 minutes after respawn or dying from starvation or lack of water in the same time frame.

Feedback is important, yes... but (and this is a big but, pun intended) it is important to be constructive with your feedback and share it with the understanding that nothing will ever stay the same as when it is first implemented. There's a difference between useful feedback and complaining -- and to be clear, I am not accusing you of the later at all, merely explaining based on your post.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Tatanko

[Evil Minion 943]

There's nothing authentic about the shoe mechanic in the game and also, if I'm going to have to replace them every 6 months, why even bother?

Its probably less realistic but more authentic to speed up degradation to a point where people have to worry about it (obviously way slower than it is in experimental right now) - also in real life you will hardly wear your shoes 24/7 and sprint through the wilderness all the time. Then there is maintenance - in DayZ there is only patching up with duct tape but to maintain your shoes in real life you would do other things as well like cleaning them or applying polish.

 

I agree with sicknesses being authentic problems as well but in terms of game development the feature discussed here is easier to include. The point is that most 24/7 real life issues have to be converted into a gaming environment where you only have a few hours per week. So speeding up some elements helps making them feel more authentic - especially the "halted" elements like temperature, healing, hunger, thirst, gear degradation etc. Even "non halted" elements might occasionaly work better if sped up - take horticulture for example (though here I would like it if it took at least one day to grow the plant - still much faster than in real life). It all depends on the effects on gameplay.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I was going to say, if the rate of decay is long I'm fine with it. This bullshit time they can keep. I'll play again after the next patch, maybe.

 

 

Do we even need this mechanic in game. As other people have pointed out, shoe's last a fuck of a long time and is it really worth all the dev and testing time on something that really isn't that big of a deal?

 

Let's also remember that we didn't wear shoes as a species to begin with, like every other animal and I don't see them having issues because an Elephant can't squeeze into a pair of Wellies. Over time your feet would harden anyway and you wouldn't need shoes.

Ahhhh... people made shoes all the way back from the Paleolithic Era, AKA when we (Cro-Magnon AKA Homo Sapien Sapiens) was interacting (interbreeding with -cough cough-) Homo Neanderthalis

 

http://archaeology.about.com/od/fterms/qt/footwear_histor.htm

[Whyherro123 2283]

Doesn't it break immersion? Caring about shoes for a start is so asinine and the rate they decay in real life is years. There's seriously nothing immersive about having to find another pair of shoes after a few hours of running around.

 

There's also another issue with persistence now, people having huge stockpiles of the most mundane crap. how's the server going to handle everyone's 10,000 item stash piles?

Ehhh, on a hike in the backcountry, I carry a spare pair of shoes (light ones, like trainers, boat shoes, or slippers) to wear around camp instead of my boots. I also get the dirt out of my boots, reglue the soles back on, waterproof/oil them, and buff them occasionally. I also let them air-dry instead of force-drying them by the fire, but that is more because they are leather and worth more than I am. Not that I am saying shoes should fall apart in a couple of minutes, but IRL, I totally change shoes (AND socks.ESPECIALLY  socks) as often as I can.

 

Crossing a stream? Take off boots, put on spares

Walking along a road? Take off boots, put on spares (don't need the arch and ankle support on flat, hard ground)

Stopping for more than 5 minutes? sit down, take off the shoes, change the socks, and stretch everything out.

 

Granted, a lot of this is "preventative maintenance", but I've had the same pair of hiking boots and hiking "sneakers" for 12 years or so.

 

Haven't failed me yet!

 

 

(these aren't mine)

Edited October 23, 2014 by Whyherro123

[pillock 850]

Ehhh, on a hike in the backcountry, I carry a spare pair of shoes (light ones, like trainers, boat shoes, or slippers) to wear around camp instead of my boots. I also get the dirt out of my boots, reglue the soles back on, waterproof/oil them, and buff them occasionally. I also let them air-dry instead of force-drying them by the fire, but that is more because they are leather and worth more than I am. Not that I am saying shoes should fall apart in a couple of minutes, but IRL, I totally change shoes (AND socks.ESPECIALLY  socks) as often as I can.

 

Crossing a stream? Take off boots, put on spares

Walking along a road? Take off boots, put on spares (don't need the arch and ankle support on flat, hard ground)

Stopping for more than 5 minutes? sit down, take off the shoes, change the socks, and stretch everything out.

 

Granted, a lot of this is "preventative maintenance", but I've had the same pair of hiking boots and hiking "sneakers" for 12 years or so.

 

Haven't failed me yet!

 

 

(these aren't mine)

 

I've found myself (or caused myself to be, possibly, but I won't get into that) falling on hard times in the past. Times where I've spend the majority of the majority of days just trudging streets. A pair of shoes I had, which looked not unlike the ones pictures above, lasted less than two weeks.

 

Point is, you spend a lot of time on your feet, and you will wear your shoes out. And then your feet will start to hurt. And then you won't be able to move around much. And in an apocalypse, that could be very, very serious. Somebody earlier in this thread said foot condition was "asinine"; they couldn't have been further from the truth.

 

It is absolutely authentic and necessary for this feature to be in the game, in some form or other.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Pillock

[Whyherro123 2283]

I've found myself (or caused myself to be, possibly, but I won't get into that) falling on hard times in the past. Times where I've spend the majority of the majority of days just trudging streets. A pair of shoes I had, which looked not unlike the ones pictures above, lasted less than two weeks.

 

Point is, you spend a lot of time on your feet, and you will wear your shoes out. And then your feet will start to hurt. And then you won't be able to move around much. And in an apocalypse, that could be very, very serious. Somebody earlier in this thread said foot condition was "asinine"; they couldn't have been further from the truth.

 

It is absolutely authentic and necessary for this feature to be in the game, in some form or other.

Wow, what the hell kind of terrain where you walking over? My Merrels have lasted...well...as long as I have had them. At least 7-8 years or so, and this was doing a good amount of hiking, backpacking, and trailrunning. Maybe because I switch out shoes, change insoles, and do said preventative maintenance, they have lasted longer?

 

Regardless, I agree. Your feet are probably the most important part of your body to look after. If they are unhappy, you will be unhappy. If they are hurting, you will be in a lot of pain.

[escobert 112]

Yeah I second that Merrels are awesome. I love mine. Cow poop, mud, snow it doesn't matter they still last.

[pillock 850]

Wow, what the hell kind of terrain where you walking over? My Merrels have lasted...well...as long as I have had them. At least 7-8 years or so, and this was doing a good amount of hiking, backpacking, and trailrunning. Maybe because I switch out shoes, change insoles, and do said preventative maintenance, they have lasted longer?

 

Regardless, I agree. Your feet are probably the most important part of your body to look after. If they are unhappy, you will be unhappy. If they are hurting, you will be in a lot of pain.

 I was wearing them all day every day (a bit like you do in DayZ). And they were probably a cheaper model, to be fair. But, the athletic shoes you get as a freshspawn probably aren't the best quality, either. It's different if you're on softer ground, but paved surfaces and rocky terrain are the death of shoes.

 

On the other hand, ill-fitting boots or wellies fuck your feet up just as much isf you're wearing them all the time, because there's no give to them.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Pillock

[pale1776 375]

Who here has ever had a problem with their shoes, even they're really old crappy shoes from 10 years ago? By problems I mean they killed you.

M...me...

[pale1776 375]

Nobody here arguing against how the degredation is realistic realizes that on deployement to Afghanistan, they patrol at least 15 miles nearly everyday for 12-16 (4 if your Wussy Guard) months with a single pair of boots...

But I have some friends who were SF and they went through 2-3 pairs of Merrils/Oakleys per deployement (they basiclly go nonstop all day everyday really)

So yeah, they dont degrade that fast, and in no way is it realistic. Anyone back me up? Where my Soldiers at? Hell, wheres Steak at, with a beard like that he was probably SF

[Judopunch 523]

I just noticed this in the list of changes in experimental: "Gear: Shoes degrade over time"

Well, that's nice really. But the reasonable question would be, are there any penalties for NOT wearing footwear? Why bother with degrading shoes if you can just run barefoot?

There will be. Mwah. ha. hahahahahaha.

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

Does foot injury affect your movement speed? Can it be avoided by wearing snickers\boots in pristine condition, with snickers degrading faster or? If, then how does shoe condition affect foot injury is it linear or a step? Sorry if it was already answered.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Does foot injury affect your movement speed? Can it be avoided by wearing snickers\boots in pristine condition, with snickers degrading faster or? If, then how does shoe condition affect foot injury is it linear or a step? Sorry if it was already answered.

Realistically, if you weren't already adept at running/walking barefoot, wearing no shoes would quickly leave you crippled. 

 

In-game, all it does is damage you over time.

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

I am looking for a bit more detail. There two stages of foot injury, however, they had no effect, I am asking if that was changed, if so how. Also I am not clear on the conditions in which you receive foot damage, is it affected only by shoe condition or also by shoe type. If the former, do you receive more damage the worse conditions your shoes are, or only after certain stage (e.g. worn, just because my shoes don't have new smell, doesn't mean they should be worse at protecting my legs)