We need a Hardcore (aka Survival) Mode

[blazinone 72]

Problem: What role should Survival and Realism play in DayZ?

• Some players prefer realism and want a very challenging experience which few other games offer.
• Some prefer practicality along with realism.
• Some want to be able play both ways depending on their mood.

 

Solution: Take what we have currently - with a few tweaks - as Regular and then make some settings changes to create a real "Hardcore" experience that is more challenging for the player.

 

 

Regular

• Reasonable Fatigue system
• Reasonable Hunger/Thirst needs
• Reasonable Environmental/Weather effects
• Reasonable Healing (quick healing from fratures and from blood loss)
• Slower item degradation
• ?
• ?

 

 

Hardcore

• Increased rate of fatigue - player gets winded more quickly, experiences more effects from fatigue
• Increased primary needs - player needs to eat and drink more often and/or more quantities of each
• Increased environmental effects - More shaking when cold, increased chance of disease, etc.
• Slow Healing - Player can't splint/fix broken bones instantly and player walks at reduced pace or with a limp until healing is complete
• Items degrade more quickly - knives and axes need regular sharpening, guns need routine cleaning
• ?
• ?

 

What else can be tweaked to make us all happy?

 

 

Note: The author is NO WAY saying that any of these systems should be REMOVED. These are merely "game settings" changes between the two Hives two satisfy two very different populations.

 

 

Edited October 22, 2014 by BlazinOne

[Bororm 1156]

Most of the stuff you list as hardcore is stuff constantly in flux, like eating/temp/fatigue/sickness etc.  These are all systems not even close to being nailed down/balanced, so differentiating servers on those settings right now would be a bad idea.

 

The other things you mention are stuff that's planned regardless.  You won't be able to instantly fix your broken leg in the future, you'll have a limp (the animations are already there, but they hit snags with it).  Sharpening axes and knives is already there, for a while you only got a few chops off an axe before you'd ruin it.  Like 1 or 2 trees worth, I think more recently it doesn't even degrade your axe, which is a bug.  That's in flux too though.

 

I'm not saying that in the future when these things actually settle it won't be reasonable to have these things as settings but it's way too early for any of that.

[Dagwood 680]

For your hardcore "settings" I would suggest increasing the difficulty in the opposite direction. So rather than forcing us to eat and drink constantly, or become fatigued every time we jog, make food scarcer and make the time to regain fatigue longer

[blazinone 72]

Bororm, you're too smart! All great points and I agree for the most part. :beans:

 

It would be a little hectic for them to be supporting two configuration bases while things are still being worked on.

 

BUT...that doesn't mean we can't brainstorm some ideas to help solve the actual problem: We've got at least two different player bases and each wants something different.

 

If not careful, the result will be a game neither side will enjoy.

Edited October 21, 2014 by BlazinOne

[blazinone 72]

For your hardcore "settings" I would suggest increasing the difficulty in the opposite direction. So rather than forcing us to eat and drink constantly, or become fatigued every time we jog, make food scarcer and make the time to regain fatigue longer

 

Interesting! That's certainly a good idea. It would reduce the number of config/settings differences between the two hives which is a plus.

 

Only problem - and I don't know all the facts - I don't know if loot tables can be adjusted between the two which would be needed to allow one hive to have less food.

[xCAPx 349]

In the end I hope they dont make two different games. The game itself should be a hardcore challenge to survive a day. No matter if its first person or third person (this should be the only difference)

[Abram_ 40]

Hopefully these are the sorry of things that could be done with the eventual modding tools.

[ld-airgrafix 403]

For your hardcore "settings" I would suggest increasing the difficulty in the opposite direction. So rather than forcing us to eat and drink constantly, or become fatigued every time we jog, make food scarcer and make the time to regain fatigue longer

I think the only way to make dayz hardcore is to lock players to servers. No matter how difficult they make this game, server hopping will always cause issues. Yes make food scarce as hell, players will just server hop till they have enough food or ammo, pretty much what happens now alot.

[Evil Minion 943]

Bring back? Bring back what? The misleading name "Hardcore" for first person servers that made people (falsely) believe gameplay would be harder and less forgiving while its actually just more immersive and natural? Or a true "Hardcore" mode that was never there to begin with?

 

I think before adding another gamemode most of the features should be implemented in the first place and there is still a lot to do (cooperative goals, medical system, weapon system, stamina, weight etc.). Also I don't think hardcore should just scale up all the issues but rather provide an equally authentic experience using the same basic laws of physics as the regular mode but with a much less forgiving environment (harsher climate, less loot, more zombies etc.).

 

Also a Survival mode would be interesting - basically regular but with a huge penalty on death.

[blazinone 72]

I think the only way to make dayz hardcore is to lock players to servers. No matter how difficult they make this game, server hopping will always cause issues. Yes make food scarce as hell, players will just server hop till they have enough food or ammo, pretty much what happens now alot.

 

It's sad isn't it? They are really forcing our hand and leaving players with little choice but to hop in some situations (like wanting a Paramedic Outfit for example).

 

I personally don't like it and go out of my way to avoid it. But what is the "official" stance on server hopping? At one point I thought Rocket made a reference to finding helicopters on a particular server which seemed like he was advocating it.

[blazinone 72]

Bring back? Bring back what?..."Hardcore" mode that was never there to begin with?

 

Totally agree. I may update the topic title to reflect that. The only remnant of the old mode that I wanted to keep was the name!

[ld-airgrafix 403]

It's sad isn't it? They are really forcing our hand and leaving players with little choice but to hop in some situations (like wanting a Paramedic Outfit for example).

 

I personally don't like it and go out of my way to avoid it. But what is the "official" stance on server hopping? At one point I thought Rocket made a reference to finding helicopters on a particular server which seemed like he was advocating it.

Same here but i have server hopped, for an axe and a pick, because i wanted to try crafting bow, fire etc. i wouldnt do it for weapons, but still it felt like cheating.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I don't want arbitrarily-"Hardcore" gameplay, I want "REALISTIC" gameplay. There is a difference.

[ld-airgrafix 403]

I don't want arbitrarily-"Hardcore" gameplay, I want "REALISTIC" gameplay. There is a difference.

all survival games atm sacrifice realism to make the gameplay harder, especially in hunger/thirst department. the constant need for feeding and drinking ruins the game. Not to mention few swings with an axe and its ruined, really???

[Whyherro123 2283]

all survival games atm sacrifice realism to make the gameplay harder, especially in hunger/thirst department. the constant need for feeding and drinking ruins the game. Not to mention few swings with an axe and its ruined, really???

Splitting axes getting damaged when cutting down trees is actually justified. You don't use a splitting axe to down a tree, you use a felling axe (or, if you are smart, a saw). They have different blade profiles, and usually, handle construction.

 

Use the right tool for the job, kids! Things are easier and more efficient that way....

 

[ld-airgrafix 403]

Splitting axes getting damaged when cutting down trees is actually justified. You don't use a splitting axe to down a tree, you use a felling axe (or, if you are smart, a saw). They have different blade profiles, and usually, handle construction.

 

Use the right tool for the job, kids! Things are easier and more efficient that way....

 

and a blunt axe cant split zombies head?????

[Whyherro123 2283]

and a blunt axe cant split zombies head?????

I wouldn't know, I repair my tools, or pick up new ones as I travel.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

A ruined axe still kills with 1-2 hits.  You can't chop trees down anymore tho but it still works well for melee.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Caboose187

[Mos1ey 6301]

DayZ is supposed to be a survival sim. I think survival should be equally difficult in both "regular" and "hardcore". They should be more akin to server difficulties in Arma IMO, only affecting things like 1st/3rd person, crosshair etc.

[DerrocK (DayZ) 39]

Problem: What role should Survival and Realism play in DayZ?

• Some players prefer realism and want a very challenging experience which few other games offer.
• Some prefer practicality along with realism.
• Some want to be able play both ways depending on their mood.

 

Solution: Take what we have currently - with a few tweaks - as Regular and then make some settings changes to create a real "Hardcore" experience that is more challenging for the player.

 

 

Regular

• Reasonable Fatigue system
• Reasonable Hunger/Thirst needs
• Reasonable Environmental/Weather effects
• Reasonable Healing (quick healing from fratures and from blood loss)
• Slower item degradation
• ?
• ?

 

 

Hardcore

• Increased rate of fatigue - player gets winded more quickly, experiences more effects from fatigue
• Increased primary needs - player needs to eat and drink more often and/or more quantities of each
• Increased environmental effects - More shaking when cold, increased chance of disease, etc.
• Slow Healing - Player can't splint/fix broken bones instantly and player walks at reduced pace or with a limp until healing is complete
• Items degrade more quickly - knives and axes need regular sharpening, guns need routine cleaning
• ?
• ?

 

What else can be tweaked to make us all happy?

 

 

Note: The author is NO WAY saying that any of these systems should be REMOVED. These are merely "game settings" changes between the two Hives two satisfy two very different populations.

 

Eating even more? omg

[Cartoonrboy 94]

I like the idea that healing is delayed, limping the player. And in my opinion, there should be no good canned food. All edible food would have to be grown/harvested after a while.

 

The environment and weather should play a direct role in the gameplay. Having to find shelter, forcing the player into a corner to hide from the undead. Risking the cold to find loot.

 

And if played in 1st person exclusively, it really comes alive as a hardcore experience.

[Mor (DayZ) 57]

I think its a good idea for a mode mod.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Mor

[Calvin Candie 189]

I am all for this! Dayz is a good platform, hope the devs are reading the forums!

[anderswhk 23]

Only thing I wish is that third person camera was completely removed. Not a server option, completely removed, as in locked in first person view. That's probably gonna turn a lot of people off, but I really dislike the fact that firefights in general comes down to exploiting the camera angle to look around corners, or over walls. People would be forced to use lean a whole lot more, and you wouldn't run around wondering if some guy is prone on a roof and watching your every step from complete safety.

 

I know it's never gonna happen tho.

Edited November 5, 2014 by anderswhk

[ValentinBk (DayZ) 60]

You got my beans for the hardcore mode idea. Think of all those stuff people constantly ask to enforce on everyone(make weapons and ammo VERY rare, force day & night cycle, character going insane because of KoS & so much more). You can have that in hardcore mode and everyone is happy. You grow your tomatoes, I`ll shoot people in Elektro.