Is DayZ really set in fictional Ukraine?

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

 

Pilgrim, have a nice cup of tea and a biscuit.

 

Also, isnt it Skoda not scoda? :)

 

*Hugs*

 

Rgds

 

LoK

Edited October 9, 2014 by orlok

[ChainReactor 922]

I think we're arguing in a circle because the OP's question actally doesn't make much sense.

 

"Is DayZ really set in fictional Ukraine?"

 

What now ? Is DayZ ( the entire game ) fictional? Yes. Is it set in Ukraine? No. What is a "fictional Ukraine?" I don't know. Is there a real life equivalent to the map? Well, partly. Let's say the map is inspired by Usti's topography. Does that have anything to do with the theme of the map? No. Do the cities names exist in real world? Yes. Again, has this anything to do with the game? No.

 

So, is DayZ really set in fictional Ukraine? No, because if it would be set in Ukraine, it wouldn't be fictional, and if it would be fictional, it wouldn't be the Ukraine. Get it? No? Me neither.

[Katana67 2907]

It's fictional. Though Chernarus draws upon real-world inspirations. It is still fictional.

 

It isn't Czech. It isn't Ukraine. It isn't fictional Ukraine, whatever that means. It isn't Russia. There's no hidden meaning behind it, or conspiracy that we're really supposed to be playing in the Ukraine.

 

It's Chernarus, an amalgam which draws upon them all (and others) and incorporates their landscapes, political circumstances, languages, and aesthetics, to various degrees, into a fictional location.

 

Not sure why this is difficult for people to wrap their heads around.

 

It's Chernarus.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Katana67

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

I think the term 'fictional Ukraine' is in place, much like Fallout is based in fictional US. I know, I know, the names in Chernarus are different and there is no match in geography, but the question is surely there - it is a fictionalized... what? Or to put it in another way, which real cultural setting inspired Chernarus? When I run around Cherna, I definitely look for any semblances with the pre-'89 eastern Poland I vaguely remember as a kid. And it's fun. ;)

[Finchtastic 50]

It's fictional. Though Chernarus draws upon real-world inspirations. It is still fictional.

 

It isn't Czech. It isn't Ukraine. It isn't fictional Ukraine, whatever that means. It isn't Russia. There's no hidden meaning behind it, or conspiracy that we're really supposed to be playing in the Ukraine.

 

It's Chernarus, an amalgam which draws upon them all (and others) and incorporates their landscapes, political circumstances, languages, and aesthetics, to various degrees, into a fictional location.

 

Not sure why this is difficult for people to wrap their heads around.

 

It's Chernarus.

The signs and towns are Russian, without a doubt (was told by a guy who grew up in Siberia, also, Russian is similar yet distinct from other slavic languages).  From this, you can conclude that the game is set in a post-apocalyptic Russia.  However, the map, landscape and town placement is derived from a small landmass north of Prague, Czech Republic.  The ocean is really a river, but other than that, you'd be surprised how much of this game is actually pulled from real life.

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

Russian is used outside of Russia, notably in Belarus and the eastern half of Ukraine.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_where_Russian_is_an_official_language

[Tupoun 65]

Hello there

 

Pilgrim, have a nice cup of tea and a biscuit.

 

Also, isnt it Skoda not scoda? :)

 

*Hugs*

 

Rgds

 

LoK

No, it's Škoda. For the fans Škoda 105L or the famous luxurious model Škoda 120L. The VAN, by the way the wordls crapiest VAN ever made, is Škoda 1203 (never lived in India, so sorry).

[Finchtastic 50]

All of which are direct border countries, heavily influenced by Russia.  Who knows, you could be right, but I'm gonna wager that a fictional place using Russian is set in Russia.  It's only an assumption, but it's the most logical one imho.

[Tatanko 5591]

The only reason it's based on an area of the Czech Republic is because Bohemia Interactive are a Czech company and they probably didn't want to spare the funds time and staff to extensively photograph and study an area in Ukraine or Russia although this is purely assumption on my part.

I'd like to think that they used that area because it's just a good setting. It doesn't have to be about laziness; I see it more as utilizing an excellent resource that is coincidentally local.

 

...and play dayz and go to his house ingame while being there for real.....mindblow 

Much like the folks 10+ years ago who used to design Counter-Strike maps based on the university dormitory or apartment block they themselves lived in. I always thought that was pretty cool!

 

Pilgrim, have a nice cup of tea and a biscuit.

I think I will, too. I deserve it dammit :)

[Finchtastic 50]

Russian is used outside of Russia, notably in Belarus and the eastern half of Ukraine.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_where_Russian_is_an_official_language

Also, I know Chernogorsk is an actual place in Russia as well.  That's what led me to think that it was set in Russia somewhere

[pillock 850]

Chernarus has a history, within the Arma2 universe. It is written on the page linked by Ceallach earlier in this thread (quoted below).
 

Chernarus info

Here is a bit of it:

 

First settlements date back to 5th Century B.C. When the valleys of the Burnaja and Svetlaya rivers were inhabited by Skyth tribes and nomads, who later formed the Takmyr and Karzeg nations. The center of modern Chernarus had been founded in the delta of the Burnaya River and on the coast, divided from the Zagorie region which was under the supremacy of a Moscow Principate by the Black Mountains ridge.

 

The local Slavic population constantly had to fight off the raiders from the southwest so it was traditionally bound with Russia, but always kept its independence. In the 12th Century it was controlled by dukes, in the 13th century it was united by Taras Kozub. The Kozub dynasty ruled until 1631, when Chernarus joined the Russian empire. After the revolution in 1917 Chernarus became an autonomic federal republic, after the demise of the USSR in 1991 it gained independence.

So it's not in Europe at all, really. My history is a little hazy, but it sounds more like the Caucasus region to me. Takistan, presumably a Muslim country, lies to west of it, with Russia itself to the north.

 

DayZ already diverges slightly from Arma2 in terms of Chernarus's layout (therefore contradicting some of the descriptions of the place's past), but I have read a few times that the developers do regard the two games as somewhat sharing the same fictional world and background.

[pilgrim* 3514]

Chernarus has a history, within the Arma2 universe. It is written on the page linked by Ceallach earlier in this thread (quoted below).

 

Here is a bit of it:

So it's not in Europe at all, really. My history is a little hazy, but it sounds more like the Caucasus region to me. Takistan, presumably a Muslim country, lies to west of it, with Russia itself to the north.

 

DayZ already diverges slightly from Arma2 in terms of Chernarus's layout (therefore contradicting some of the descriptions of the place's past), but I have read a few times that the developers do regard the two games as somewhat sharing the same fictional world and background.

 

Yes - so it totally missed out on the Habsburgs and the Austro-Hungarian empire AND the Ottomans... that's amazing and unique...  you are right, that locates it outside the whole of the Continent of Europe, (unless it was hidden in the middle of Poland or inside the Ottoman Empire itself, [joke] - that would have been mentioned, right?).

I can accept we're talking about a fictional planet here.

If we ignore most of the regional history East of the Black Sea we could say 'Georgia' ... for instance.. as you suggest (check it out? - Wikipedia again)

but .. nah .. or .. maybe.. or ... whatever...

 

but this is like any fiction.. ya know... I recently heard the author saying Game of Thrones was based on Britain and the Wars of the Roses .. funny, I was born right there, but my impressions of that region and it's history are not like his fiction at all.. maybe it's changed a lot ?  But (to be fair) - we still really do have Lancashire and Yorkshire, and Scotland is still to the North, so I guess there are some important similarities  worth arguing about. Maybe somebody could claim that apart from some slight artistic licence with the climate, that whole series is Totally Real... my own opinion is that none of this stuff ever existed in any way, anywhere, at any time, .. If anyone ever wants to write a coherent back story they are going to have to start from SCRATCH (new continent?), and to make anything that hangs together even a little bit they will have their work REALLY cut out.

But at least we're all cool about the zombies, right?

Edited October 9, 2014 by pilgrim

[Katana67 2907]

The signs and towns are Russian, without a doubt (was told by a guy who grew up in Siberia, also, Russian is similar yet distinct from other slavic languages).  From this, you can conclude that the game is set in a post-apocalyptic Russia.  However, the map, landscape and town placement is derived from a small landmass north of Prague, Czech Republic.  The ocean is really a river, but other than that, you'd be surprised how much of this game is actually pulled from real life.

 

The only thing you can conclude is that Chernarus is fictional, it does not exist in the real world. It is pieced together with aspects from the real world, but it is not therefore one of those real world entities.

 

Its overall landscape is based on Usti nad Labem, in Czech. It's still Chernarus.

 

Its geographic location on the globe, is more akin to Georgia or Azerbaijan. It's still Chernarus.

 

Its political history is more akin to a region like Chechnya or Ukraine. It's still Chernarus, though.

 

Its economic circumstance appears more like Belarus or rural Ukraine. But, it's still Chernarus.

 

Its military history is more akin to the Balkans. It's still Chernarus, though.

 

Its linguistic heritage is more akin to Russia. It's still Chernarus... right?

 

Aspects (not the entire notion of Chernarus, because a large portion is purely fictional as in it was created expressly by the developers due to their own distinct creativity) are based in reality. The product, universe, and everything to do with Chernarus as it is manifested in DayZ... is fictional.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Katana67

[Steak and Potatoes 13480]

The encyclopedia britannica thread of the forums, please type more must read. 

 

Regards,

 

Steak.

[pillock 850]

The encyclopedia britannica thread of the forums, please type more must read. 

 

Regards,

 

Steak.

 

Ere ya go:

 

 

Chernarus has lots of old castle ruins, keeps and fortresses, which were built at the turn of the 11th and 12th century by Duke Kozlov, for the means of protecting important roads and grounds, which were often attacked from the sea and by northern neighbors. The Pik Kozlova above the Chernogorsk city is named after this duke, who is considered a founder of the first Chernarussian state. On the peak above the city there used to stand a warning post which protected the local provinces from pirate raids. This rocky peak is a favorite lookout point nowadays.

 

The majority of the structures of that time were made of wood, only the ruins of Rog keep and the famous Devil's Castle are preserved to this day. The Devil's Castle received its name many years later, perhaps sometime during the end of the 13th century. After the fall of Kozlov's Principate at the beginning of the 13th century, the fortress system fell apart; fortresses that weren't burned down were taken apart stone by stone, as needed for the structure of surrounding estates, or for different purposes.

 

The former Kozlovo Castle, now called the Devil's Castle, was supposedly inhabited by the yeoman Jakub Čert (Devil) from Gorka. His bandit campaigns started here at the castle. He enlarged the keep of the castle, using the loot from these raids and the castle holds his name to this day. According to legend, the Devil's Castle was burned down during the zagorian Karzeg's rebellion, Jakub Čert burned in the castle's main tower after he refused to surrender to Ataman Simurg. Only burned walls remain of the castle, haunted to this day by the spirit of Ivan Kozlov. Whatever the truth is, Devil's Castle is one of the most remarkable architectural sights in Chernarus and it became a rewarding destination for tourists.

[klesh 2423]

The Ukranian [sic] flag is easy to confuse with military grade or unit patches (for instance). It's not a complicated flag:

 

 

                                  

 

 

An easy way to remember it's orientation is that the flag is supposed to represent a field of yellow wheat with blue sky above it.

 

Edited October 9, 2014 by klesh

[Tatanko 5591]

Aspects (not the entire notion of Chernarus, because a large portion is purely fictional as in it was created expressly by the developers due to their own distinct creativity) are based in reality. The product, universe, and everything to do with Chernarus as it is manifested in DayZ... is fictional.

Excellent post, and I think this last part sums it up quite well. I think thus far, your post is the most complete and to-the-point. Other than additional discussion about individual elements of Chernarus purely for fun, not much else needs said in my opinion.

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

The only thing you can conclude is that Chernarus is fictional, it does not exist in the real world. It is pieced together with aspects from the real world, but it is not therefore one of those real world entities.

 

Its overall landscape is based on Usti nad Labem, in Czech. It's still Chernarus.

 

Its geographic location on the globe, is more akin to Georgia or Azerbaijan. It's still Chernarus.

 

Its political history is more akin to a region like Chechnya or Ukraine. It's still Chernarus, though.

 

Its economic circumstance appears more like Belarus or rural Ukraine. But, it's still Chernarus.

 

Its military history is more akin to the Balkans. It's still Chernarus, though.

 

Its linguistic heritage is more akin to Russia. It's still Chernarus... right?

 

Aspects (not the entire notion of Chernarus, because a large portion is purely fictional as in it was created expressly by the developers due to their own distinct creativity) are based in reality. The product, universe, and everything to do with Chernarus as it is manifested in DayZ... is fictional.

 

One thing wrong: Russian is not the language of Chernarus. Chernarussian is identical to the Czech language, and the developers had some fun with it back in the days of old (a civilian named Pepa Zdepa, or Joe-from-the-Depot is my favorite. Cyrillic is used alongside normal latin letters.

 

I've come to multiple conclusions with this; Chernarus is probably a former property of the Bohemian principate, and was established in the Middle ages as an exclave outside Bohemia. That, and outside South Zagoria, Russian and Cyrillic aren't even used to the same degree, as the ethnic Russian population is a lot less in Western Chernarus (think Kirovograd and Novigrad). The geography is probably much different, as the country borders Takistan, a middle eastern country covered in deserts. But habitat changes are incredibly abrupt in places like Armenia, so maybe Bohemia could base a future DLC map off of Kirovograd/Novigrad, and make it distinctively more Western (Chernarus is distancing from Russia, as the two aren't on the best of terms), while still having a unique geography. 

 

Wouldn't that be cool?

[Kirov (DayZ) 585]

One thing wrong: Russian is not the language of Chernarus. Chernarussian is identical to the Czech language, and the developers had some fun with it back in the days of old (a civilian named Pepa Zdepa, or Joe-from-the-Depot is my favorite. Cyrillic is used alongside normal latin letters.

 

 

I'm no expert of anything Czech, but living in this area of Europe (i.e. Poland), I'm not really convinced that Chernarussian town names bear any resemblance with the Czech language, not taking the Cyrillic into account. On the contrary, they sound 100% Russian, with words like Krasno-, Chernaya, -grad etc. Novodmitrovsk sounds super Russian to my ear.

 

That there is a Muslim country to the west of Chernarus - my mind is blown. This is where I can try to stop fitting this country somewhere on the real map of cultural influences. Chernarus looks distinctly European to me and I fail to picture it anywhere past Kazakhstan.

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

I'm no expert of anything Czech, but living in this area of Europe (i.e. Poland), I'm not really convinced that Chernarussian town names bear any resemblance with the Czech language, not taking the Cyrillic into account. On the contrary, they sound 100% Russian, with words like Krasno-, Chernaya, -grad etc. Novodmitrovsk sounds super Russian to my ear.

 

That there is a Muslim country to the west of Chernarus - my mind is blown. This is where I can try to stop fitting this country somewhere on the real map of cultural influences. Chernarus looks distinctly European to me and I fail to picture it anywhere past Kazakhstan.

 

We play in a distant Northern province that has a large Russian minority. If you've ever played ArmA 2, or read some of the billboards, or the posters in the clinic, you'd know that the actual Chernarussian language is Czech. Besides, we're about 200km from the border with Takistan. And countries like Azerbaijan and Armenia have quite dynamic climate changes along their borders, and not all of Afghanistan is arid desert. I wouldn't call Armenia or Georgia middle eastern countries, yet they happen to border a good handful. And again, Russia controlled Chernarus from the 1600's until 1990. Maybe they changed the town names to something a bit more distinctly Russian during the tenure under it?

[Katana67 2907]

One thing wrong: Russian is not the language of Chernarus. Chernarussian is identical to the Czech language, and the developers had some fun with it back in the days of old (a civilian named Pepa Zdepa, or Joe-from-the-Depot is my favorite. Cyrillic is used alongside normal latin letters.

 

I've come to multiple conclusions with this; Chernarus is probably a former property of the Bohemian principate, and was established in the Middle ages as an exclave outside Bohemia. That, and outside South Zagoria, Russian and Cyrillic aren't even used to the same degree, as the ethnic Russian population is a lot less in Western Chernarus (think Kirovograd and Novigrad). The geography is probably much different, as the country borders Takistan, a middle eastern country covered in deserts. But habitat changes are incredibly abrupt in places like Armenia, so maybe Bohemia could base a future DLC map off of Kirovograd/Novigrad, and make it distinctively more Western (Chernarus is distancing from Russia, as the two aren't on the best of terms), while still having a unique geography. 

 

Wouldn't that be cool?

 

Was more just focusing on the use of the Cyrillic alphabet rather than the phonetic structure of the language. I don't speak Czech or Russian, so the alphabet is all I can comment on. Perhaps I should've been more specific.

 

I wouldn't put much stock in the idea that Chernarus could be a former Bohemian possession. Given that its geographically separated from where the Czech Republic (and medieval Bohemia) would be. It is in the Caucasus, or near to it, I can't find the intro video for the campaign that identifies it there. But I'm sure I've seen it either there, or in a similar position to modern-day Moldova. Likewise, the fact that it borders a major body of water at all rules the entire area of Bohemia or Czech out at all.

 

Which is why it isn't really all that useful, in my mind, to play the game of trying to pin it down ourselves. It's just purely fictional, and until that fiction is fleshed out... I don't really see anything to be gained in speculating. Because we're not really operating in the realm of non-fiction.

 

I've long maintained that Chernarus (and the universe of DayZ) itself needs to be fleshed out much more by the developers. Whether that means planting a "Background" section into the website, or if it means including in-game lore items for us to find, I don't particularly care at this point. But I don't really think the whole "let the players tell the story" excuse for a lack of lore in DayZ is acceptable, or even unique, anymore.

 

There is, of course, a difference between the story of the player and the story of the environment. Nobody bitches about not having a unique player-by-player experience in a game like Skyrim, which has an intimately crafted lore and a well-articulated universe. So why is DayZ any different? If Chernarus/DayZ's lore is further expanded upon, it doesn't marginalize... or even affect at all... the notion of the players "creating their own stories."

 

DayZ needs lore. How that lore is to be delivered is up for interpretation. But I think we, and the developers, are missing out on a lot of what lore could offer. Rather than just having us play on a vague, non-contextual canvas.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Katana67

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Lets just post this here if some of you haven't see this.

[Cap'n (DayZ) 1827]

Was more just focusing on the use of the Cyrillic alphabet rather than the phonetic structure of the language. I don't speak Czech or Russian, so the alphabet is all I can comment on. Perhaps I should've been more specific.

 

I wouldn't put much stock in the idea that Chernarus could be a former Bohemian possession. Given that its geographically separated from where the Czech Republic (and medieval Bohemia) would be. It is in the Caucasus, or near to it, I can't find the intro video for the campaign that identifies it there. But I'm sure I've seen it either there, or in a similar position to modern-day Moldova. Likewise, the fact that it borders a major body of water at all rules the entire area of Bohemia or Czech out at all.

 

Which is why it isn't really all that useful, in my mind, to play the game of trying to pin it down ourselves. It's just purely fictional, and until that fiction is fleshed out... I don't really see anything to be gained in speculating. Because we're not really operating in the realm of non-fiction.

 

I've long maintained that Chernarus (and the universe of DayZ) itself needs to be fleshed out much more by the developers. Whether that means planting a "Background" section into the website, or if it means including in-game lore items for us to find, I don't particularly care at this point. But I don't really think the whole "let the players tell the story" excuse for a lack of lore in DayZ is acceptable, or even unique, anymore.

 

There is, of course, a difference between the story of the player and the story of the environment. Nobody bitches about not having a unique player-by-player experience in a game like Skyrim, which has an intimately crafted lore and a well-articulated universe. So why is DayZ any different? If Chernarus/DayZ's lore is further expanded upon, it doesn't marginalize... or even affect at all... the notion of the players "creating their own stories."

 

DayZ needs lore. How that lore is to be delivered is up for interpretation. But I think we, and the developers, are missing out on a lot of what lore could offer. Rather than just having us play on a vague, non-contextual canvas.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. Some expanded lore would be amazing.

 

Hell, explaining the connection to the armaverse is frustrating enough. It'd make it a lot less painful to write up some stuff on the website and some items in-game.

[Count_Blackula (DayZ) 39]

I'd like to think that they used that area because it's just a good setting. It doesn't have to be about laziness; I see it more as utilizing an excellent resource that is coincidentally local.

 

Much like the folks 10+ years ago who used to design Counter-Strike maps based on the university dormitory or apartment block they themselves lived in. I always thought that was pretty cool!

 

I think I will, too. I deserve it dammit :)

I didn't imply laziness at all, you're putting words in my mouth. They probably just didn't want to commit the resources to surveying an area hundreds of miles away but as I said I'm just guessing.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Count_Blackula

[pillock 850]

DayZ needs lore. How that lore is to be delivered is up for interpretation. But I think we, and the developers, are missing out on a lot of what lore could offer. Rather than just having us play on a vague, non-contextual canvas.

 

Personally, I hope that some level "lore" is indicated in the game as clues that players can discover - maybe a tourist guide book, and some old newspapers lying about; perhaps some grafitti and other physical clues. Nothing too specific, but clues we can speculate on.

 

It's add to the experience if you could go some way to finding out what happened. (I wouldn't expect it to be implemented until full release time though.)