AXE Durability and Sharpening

[CJFlint 357]

I never really noticed until the .49 stable patch that axes get worn down from pristine to ruined rather quickly from chopping down trees.  Axes are now even much more of a critical part of your DayZ kit, with the weather effects.  Now not only is it the most effective to kill zeds melee, it also is very much needed for chopping down trees to build fires to stay warm. In my last “life” in game I had a fire axe that was pristine when I picked it up, and was ruined after chopping down only 4 trees.  I think maybe the axes should be worn over time, but to me that’s not much life at all. Even more so with no way of sharpening or maintaining our axes in game.

 

We should have the a way of sharpening and maintaining our axes, like a sharpening stone, the same way we maintain our close in game. Like a sewing kit. Because the way it is currently I would be forced to run into a firehouse every day to get a new axe, just too stay warm. It’s completely ridiculous and cannot rely on it currently. So we need this sooner rather than later. Maybe add a cool case or holster type thing that protects the axe and carries a sharpening stone all in one later on down the road.

 

Also the sharpening stones could also be used to sharpen other sharp objects.

 

Now It may already in the works, thats fine but its needed now more then ever.

 

Thanks!

Edited September 26, 2014 by CJFlint

[fluxley 2228]

Sharpening axes is already in game, you just need a stone and it will return a badly damaged axe to damaged.

 

You can get a stone by using a pickaxe on a rock/boulder.

 

They used to just spawn in but haven't seen one for a while so guess you have to mine them now.

[demongornot 23]

Its already been stated about this, here a topic with my answer :
http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/209765-sharpening-tools/#entry2101621

In fact you can sharp your axe with a stone, the issue is that the inventory system is bad, a pen take the same place than a can of bean...SERIOUSLY ?
With every update we have more objects and some of them are NEEDED not just accessory, and the inventory size don't change, even a while before it was already too small, but now its ridiculous, so carry a stone...Probably no one will want to do it...And you can't find stone easily on the ground, which is stupid, who can't seriously find a stone ?
And it only "sharp" the axe from badly damaged to damaged...

Anyway, the issue is not that it should get sharp back to worn or find more stone, or find them on the ground or anything else...
The issue is that devs are stupid and make a feature that even COD dev's don't mind to put, axe with less than 10 use, SERIOUSLY, even in Minecraft where we can EASILY craft then, they are way more than 10 use, and in fact they broke from pristine to ruined in LESS than 10 three...
SERIOUSLY ?
Maybe after 100 three, okay why not, even if it will still stupid...
The thing is, axe should NOT get damaged while shopping tree.

 

This is stupid and make no senses, don't tell me that DayZ is anything realistic with this kind of stupidity...And that's not a bug or a balance issue...
Their is really a stupid in the dev team that have decide/think something like : Hey lets put plastic axe into our REALISTIC game :)

That the main reason why i have stop to play this game, its full of incoherence, and NO the fact that it is a Early Access is not an excuse, this is not a bug or a unfinished feature, this is probably supposed to be a final feature, changing the durability is probably changing a simple numerical value on the Axe's file, so don't tell me that if they wanted something else they will not be able to do it.

 

Anyway, adding sharping tool can still a good idea for ALL bladed objects, not only the axe, but it should NOT be an excuse to keep having an axe that is less durable than a paper plane.

[CJFlint 357]

I did not know that, thats good info to know that you can use a stone to sharpen. Its dosn't sound that effective, but at least its something.  

 

I would like to see a sharpening block, kind of like what have in your kitchen or carry with you camping ect. Something that could bring the cond to say worn.

 

Im serous my axe the other night lasted 3 hours of game play. 4 trees and some maybe 4 dead zeds. That was the life of my fire axe....no shit. And with the broken weather system the way it is, you have to use the axe way more often to get wood. So were talking once a day you need a new axe, or you have to carry a stone....:/ That from the sounds of it, just keeps the axe barely usable with the stone picked up off the ground or gained with a pick axe.

Edited September 26, 2014 by CJFlint

[MaxTheSurvivor 152]

Don t rejoice dude, that miraculous stone still eats 4 slots in your inventory, more a boulder than a stone. We still need some sharpening kit or a place like these places in the forest where you have lumber stocked that have a grindstone and that can be used to bring a sharp object from badly damaged to pristine.

[dashender7 78]

I agree with you guys and have seen it stated before that axes become damaged way too quickly.  

 

The other thing is that IRL, you would gather smaller pieces of dead fallen wood in the forrest rather than going around cutting down huge pine trees to build a fire.  Dead dry pieces of "firewood" should be relatively abundant and easy to find in the forests and you wouldn't want to chop fresh live wood for this purpose.

 

The cutting down trees to gather timber thing should be used when barricading (using pieces of wood to block windows and doors in buildings) is in game.

 

Lastly, I think when persistence (having a camp or base) is a working mechanism, some of this stuff with having to use a lot of tools like pick axes, stones, axes, and maintain them, will actually be a fun thing, as you'll be able to store more of the tools and implements you need at your base and take them with you for specific tasks.  

 

I rather like the idea that it would be pretty hard to carry everything you could ever need on your body at all times. Especially when they implement a more realistic weight system you won't want to carry a crazy load out all the time.  Having a camp will mean that you can take only what you need and travel light for, say, a hunting trip, taking only a small pack, a rifle, a small amount of ammo, water, maybe a couple of items of food and a knife and a few basic medical items, and leaving your other stuff at a secure camp.

 

This, to me, is really immersive and more realistic to how a person would survive longer term and will add a good dimension to the game for the survivalist.

[odin_lowe 3686]

Placeholder/unfinished feature. It'll get better and more balanced eventually. I hope we see the introduction of other means to sharpen and maintain bladed weapons. (And get them to a status higher than damaged.)

[ebrim 998]

To more or less reiterate what I was saying in the weather thread...

I think it's pretty crucial for the conversation in general to realize that we're not talking about the axe falling apart in your hands, rather its edge is being dulled to the point that it is no longer effective for its intended purpose. Note that you can fully well smack the shit out of zombies with a ruined axe but you cannot fell a tree.
 

Having established that, there's the rate of wear and tear. I agree that it seems like an accelerated rate when compared to real-world use but very few elements of the game are different. That is to say you heal remarkably fast, you stitch clothes in an instant, broken bones can be immediately fixed and you even suffer weather effects arguably faster than normal. I imagine when we get horticulture plants will grow faster than they do in real life as well. In this sense it's not all that remarkable that axes dull faster than they may in real life. Now you're probably thinking, "But not that fast!!!". Keep in mind that when you fell a tree in DayZ you are able to instantly harvest usable firewood from the tree, which means you didn't just chop it down but you went through several blade intensive processes from chopping to splitting in the abstract. I don't think with this in mind the rate of wear is all too unreasonable. However I think it could be interesting from a gameplay perspective to change the wear system so that combat with the axe affects wear as well and then reduce the overall rate of wear for both activities. This could provide an incentive for people to save their axe for trees if they like or just ignore trees altogether and focus on zombie chopping or even (shock-horror) use a different weapon for melee.

The final component is options for sharpening. Overall the current system with the stone is pretty good. I think it would be nice to find purpose-made tools for sharpening that are more space-efficient in your backpack (like the can-opener of sharpening). I disagree that anything should bring a blade back past damaged status unless the game introduces industrial-level machines for that purpose.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Ebrim

[CJFlint 357]

To more or less reiterate what I was saying in the weather thread...

I think it's pretty crucial for the conversation in general to realize that we're not talking about the axe falling apart in your hands, rather its edge is being dulled to the point that it is no longer effective for its intended purpose. Note that you can fully well smack the shit out of zombies with a ruined axe but you cannot fell a tree.

 

Having established that there's the rate of wear and tear. I agree that it seems like an accelerated rate when compared to real-world use but very few elements of the game are different. That is to say you heal remarkably fast, you stitch clothes in an instant, broken bones can be immediately fixed and you even suffer weather effects arguably faster than normal. I imagine when we get horticulture plants will grow faster than they do in real life as well. In this sense it's not all that remarkable that axes dull faster than they may in real life. Now you're probably thinking, "But not that fast!!!". Keep in mind that when you fell a tree in DayZ you are able to instantly harvest usable firewood from the tree, which means you didn't just chop it down but you went through several blade intensive processes from chopping to splitting in the abstract. I don't think with this in mind the rate of wear is all too unreasonable. However I think it could be interesting from a gameplay perspective to change the wear system so that combat with the axe affects wear as well and then reduce the overall rate of wear for both activities. This could provide an incentive for people to save their axe for trees if they like or just ignore trees altogether and focus on zombie chopping or even (shock-horror) use a different weapon for melee.

The final component is options for sharpening. Overall the current system with the stone is pretty good. I think it would be nice to find purpose-made tools for sharpening that are more space-efficient in your backpack (like the can-opener of sharpening). I disagree that anything should bring a blade back past damaged status unless the game introduces industrial-level machines for that purpose.

I respectfully dis agree. This is pandering to the dev's and giving them an excuse for bad game play mechanics.

 

1) The stone takes 4 slots, this....thats allot just for something sharpens daul blades.

2) Only 4 trees really? Are you serous? You think that just fine? Its ridiculous.

 

I get it, I understand were your coming from.  We both, in fact all of us want a unforgiving hard core realisitc survival simulator, but not with broken mechanics and stuff that just dons't work or make since. I'm not asking for the game to be softened, I asking that it to work and make logical since.

 

He man it's ok to mention stuff thats broken on the forums it dosn't make you less of a hard core DayZ player lol

Edited September 26, 2014 by CJFlint

[-Gews- 7443]

I disagree that anything should bring a blade back past damaged status unless the game introduces industrial-level machines for that purpose.

What does "damaged" mean though? Hard to damage an axe head unless you're chopping rocks. The thing I would be worried about damaging would be the handle, not the head. An axe doesn't have to be razor sharp anyways, most axes or machetes will be better than they were out-of-the-box (would that be pristine?) after a simple sharpening even with a file.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Gews

[CJFlint 357]

Fire axes are tough as shit in the real world. They are ment to go through hell. Were talking vary high temps, and they can go through walls and everything else that gets in the firemens way. They do not break every 5 minutes trust me. You would have to do allot to break the handle on one. Maybe run it over with a semi might work.

Edited September 26, 2014 by CJFlint

[ebrim 998]

I respectfully dis agree. This is pandering to the dev's and giving them an excuse for bad game play mechanics.

 

1) The stone takes 4 slots, this....thats allot just for something sharpens daul blades.

2) Only 4 trees really? Are you serous? You think that just fine? Its ridiculous.

 

I get it, I understand were your coming from.  We both, in fact all of us want a unforgiving hard core realisitc survival simulator, but not with broken mechanics and stuff that just dons't work or make since. I'm not asking for the game to be softened, I asking that it to work and make logical since.

 

He man it's ok to mention stuff thats broken on the forums it dosn't make you less of a hard core DayZ player lol

 

You basically made no useful arguments in this post except to say that stones seem large and you don't really want to carry them to sharpen things and that you think that the capability to chop down, segment and split within a couple of game minutes should in no way be balanced by your axe suffering wear and tear. I'll just ignore the ad hominem nonsense.

So in response to the charitable interpretation of this post:

1. Perhaps most importantly, I in no way expect the system to remain as it is for release-state DayZ.

2. I suggested purpose-made sharpening implements that are more space-efficient than the stone if you can find them.

3. Diversifying axe wear sources and reducing rate may be the most interesting compromise from a gameplay perspective.

 

What does "damaged" mean though? Hard to damage an axe head unless you're chopping rocks. The thing I would be worried about damaging would be the handle, not the head. An axe doesn't have to be razor sharp anyways, most axes or machetes will be better than they were out-of-the-box (would that be pristine?) after a simple sharpening even with a file.

 

Since you can kill a zombie with a ruined axe, I interpret it to mean an axe that is no longer useful for its intended purpose, likely due to a mangled and dulled head. Absolutely axes don't need to be razor sharp, people in the Americas used to spend ridiculous man hours hacking at trees with sharpened stones and in the game you can chop down a tree with a badly damaged axe however at some point from a gameplay perspective your axe has basically become useless for cutting down a tree.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Ebrim

[CJFlint 357]

You basically made no useful arguments in this post except to say that stones seem large and you don't really want to carry them to sharpen things and that you think that the capability to chop down, segment and split within a couple of game minutes should in no way be balanced by your axe suffering wear and tear. I'll just ignore the ad hominem nonsense.

So in response to the charitable interpretation of this post:

1. Perhaps most importantly, I in no way expect the system to remain as it is for release-state DayZ.

2. I suggested purpose-made sharpening implements that are more space-efficient than the stone if you can find them.

3. Diversifying axe wear sources and reducing rate may be the most interesting compromise from a gameplay perspective.

 

 

Since you can kill a zombie with a ruined axe, I interpret it to mean an axe that is no longer useful for its intended purpose, likely due to a mangled and dulled head. Absolutely axes don't need to be razor sharp, people in the Americas used to spend ridiculous man hours hacking at trees with sharpened stones and in the game you can chop down a tree with a badly damaged axe however at some point from a gameplay perspective your axe has basically become useless for cutting down a tree.

Your a Troll! I figured it out. Your just posting to cause you like to debate about stuff....find another thread

 

In your little list you made you just agreed with every thing this thread is about, but yet I speak nonsense LOL I'm not even going to respond to you anymore there professor. Really!?

Edited September 26, 2014 by CJFlint

[Elle 562]

so I have stopped chopping down trees for firewood. I use the same fireplace kit and logs that I chopped a few days ago. Bite the bullet on the four slots and place your fireplace kit in those slots then drag your firewood to the fireplace kit and "attach" the firewood. You can also store some single slot items there, I am quite sure this will be fixed at some point in the future but until the "I'm freezing" stuff gets settled its a reasonable fix. I missed those four slots for a while but I can now toss my splitting axe and gain them back.

[ebrim 998]

Your a Troll! I figured it out. Your just posting to cause you like to debate about stuff....find another thread

 

In your little list you made you just agreed with every thing this thread is about, but yet I speak nonsense LOL I'm not even going to respond to you anymore. Really!?

 

Actually I wasn't debating anything, my first post was just to list a number of things I think are important regarding the subject and make some suggestions. Then you decided you disagreed with me and posted about how you disagreed and then when you read my second post which was basically what I had written in the first place in a much more simplified form you decided you actually agreed with it (I guess). Far from trolling, I was just trying to contribute.

 

I will say that one thing my posts did disagree with which seems to be a general theme in the thread is the idea that the current system of axe wear is unfathomably crazy. It's a placeholder system and imperfect sure but it's a useful abstraction for now considering how wood is harvested.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Has anyone tested the firemans vs the woodcutter's axe for durability when cutting down trees?  One thing I can guarantee is that a firemans axe is not designed for cutting down trees and will most likely wear out a lot quicker

[CJFlint 357]

Has anyone tested the firemans vs the woodcutter's axe for durability when cutting down trees?  One thing I can guarantee is that a firemans axe is not designed for cutting down trees and will most likely wear out a lot quicker

Well were finding out more in more some of the mechanics are destorted or warped compared to reality. So really there is a couple of ways to find out. The wiki or to try it in game. The damage points Im pretty sure are higher on the fire axe, but its not that much. You can one hit a zombie with a wood cutting axe. But its also called a "wood cutting axe".....hint hint.

 

At this point in DayZ SA I wouldn't be suprised either way. Its all metrics really, in the game it self. But with the weather effects if it did turn out the woodcuting axe has a much longer life for cutting down trees. I would take it over the fire axe, even at the cost of a few damage points.

Edited September 26, 2014 by CJFlint

[pilgrim* 3514]

Don t rejoice dude, that miraculous stone still eats 4 slots in your inventory, more a boulder than a stone. We still need some sharpening kit or a place like these places in the forest where you have lumber stocked that have a grindstone and that can be used to bring a sharp object from badly damaged to pristine.

 

OK _ OK ... well - I got punched by a zombie and my stone was RUINED

 

how about that ?

[CJFlint 357]

OK _ OK ... well - I got punched by a zombie and my stone was RUINED

 

how about that ?

Serously?

[MaxTheSurvivor 152]

OK _ OK ... well - I got punched by a zombie and my stone was RUINED

 

how about that ?

:) ooops, ok i guess the devs didn t realized when they created the stone item that a stone of that size cannot be broken with a fist, or maybe Van Damme or Chuck Norris could. Stone durability should be set much higher.

[pilgrim* 3514]

:) ooops, ok i guess the devs didn t realized when they created the stone item that a stone of that size cannot be broken with a fist, or maybe Van Damme or Chuck Norris could. Stone durability should be set much higher.

 

Had the stone in a jacket pocket

 

After the first couple of trees you need to sharpen your axe EVERY time you cut wood, just to keep it totally blunt but not ruined. For the same reason you need to sharpen your knife every time you butcher an animal, to keep it good and blunt. So you get 45-65% of each cut of meat..... and make sure you sharpen it every time, back up to blunt, because if you dont, next time it will be ruined.

 

And it took a WHILE to find a pickaxe (and you need to carry your axe at the same time, right?).. quite a while. so then I got the stone and I was good for fire - need fire maybe every hour ??  and it rains a lot and trees dont seem to shelter you now ?? SO Got a pickaxe, mined a STONE..

 

And a zombie punched me once in the chest while I was axing him one day, hit me once, and so when I checked I found a ruined stone in the pocket of my wasted jacket.

 

I really didn't expect that, it came across as an ironic DayZ event and I laffed heartily. And - I know I can cut firewood now one more time before my axe breaks, then I'm screwed. I need a pickaxe or a new wood axe.. in the next hour ?? Or I can find antibiotics in that time and just eat the game raw, but still freeze?? Which option is least likely to take an hour, avoiding death if poss ?

 

Kill another player, I guess ??

 

So there's the story of the Zombie Tiger Claw Punch and the Ruined Stone.

 

xx

Edited September 26, 2014 by pilgrim

[CJFlint 357]

Had the stone in a jacket pocket

 

After the first couple of trees you need to sharpen your axe EVERY time you cut wood, just to keep it totally blunt but not ruined. For the same reason you need to sharpen your knife every time you butcher an animal, to keep it good and blunt. So you get 45-65% of each cut of meat..... and make sure you sharpen it every time, back up to blunt, because if you dont, next time it will be ruined.

 

And it took a WHILE to find a pickaxe (and you need to carry your axe at the same time, right?).. quite a while. so then I got the stone and I was good for fire - need fire maybe every hour ??  and it rains a lot and trees dont seem to shelter you now ?? SO Got a pickaxe, mined a STONE..

 

And a zombie punched me once in the chest while I was axing him one day, hit me once, and so when I checked I found a ruined stone in the pocket of my wasted jacket.

 

I really didn't expect that, it came across as an ironic DayZ event and I laffed heartily. And - I know I can cut firewood now one more time before my axe breaks, then I'm screwed. I need a pickaxe or a new wood axe.. in the next hour ?? Or I can find antibiotics in that time and just eat the game raw, but still freeze?? Which option is least likely to take an hour, avoiding death if poss ?

 

Kill another player, I guess ??

 

So there's the story of the Zombie Tiger Claw Punch and the Ruined Stone.

 

xx

That sucks...A stone being ruined...I'm think more and more that DayZ has got some serous work ahead of it. Maybe a gun shot, but not a melee strike from a zed. God the more we go on with this the more we find completly unfinished things with mechanics and items. Alpha.   

 

What they should do is make a smaller one slot sharpening stone or block, that can be carried and used to sharpen axes or other sharp items. Also the axe being degarded that much after just knocking down a tree or two really is stupid. It just is.

 

Carrying a 4 slot stone just seems kind of dumb, just so we can make axes badly dam to dam. If its just to hold us over for a few patches til the finish work on the a real sharpening stone thats cool, maybe it should just one slot though.

 

See all these items are needed more now then before. Can't have them all dicked up. They did the weather changes in .49....this was fine. I did not feel the need to start a fire every hour. Then then the hot fix came (which I have no clue why they did it, it helped nothing). Now I need to start fires on the regular.... but oh shit. We really don't have decent realible tools to do that in the game yet period.

 

So by putting out the hot fix they created a whole host of game play problems...and no its dosn't make it more realistic or hardcore. Just broken. Whats messed up about all this is .49 worked....well pretty good when 1st went live....so what give with this hot fix?

Edited September 26, 2014 by CJFlint

[pilgrim* 3514]

That sucks...A stone being ruined...I'm think more and more that DayZ has got some serous work ahead of it. Maybe a gun shot, but not a melee strike from a zed. God the more we go on with this the more we find completly unfinished things with mechanics and items. Alpha.   

 

 

You seen that big round boulder you have to carry around ?

- wouldn't it be nice after a zombie hit it,  you found your pocket full of just dust and gravel ?

 

a smaller stone would be fine, edges should sharpen up to "almost" pristine if you work on them a little. Who wants a knife that looks as though its rusted away for 20 years, even after you "sharpen" it?

Flints would be a nice idea for striking fire or making weapons (spear, fish spear, arrow ?)

 

but just a standard commercial 'sharpening stone' like you find in a drawer or 2 or on a shelf in a backyard garage, a workshop, a kitchen, farm outhouse, toolbox, shed, barn, truck .. wherever there are knives or farm tools, or ANY edged implements. I'll bet YOU've got one at home somewhere.

 

AND myself IRL I have a standard fire striker and steel (or maybe two, they cost nothing) - most any hiker has one, I guess the army too.. about as big as a car key, you can carry it on a string around your neck, or in your pocket, it weighs a few grams it lasts for YEARS.. you can find them in EVERY camping store, fishing store, hunting store..

 

And while I'm on it, what happened to those flat fold-out army can openers that were 2x longer than your thumbnail??

IRL I must have seen ... thousands..

 

Well - - At least if the rock fell completely to rubble you'd know it was ruined without having to read the description.

 

xx

Edited September 27, 2014 by pilgrim