The 'war on snipers'

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

The age old Sniper debate...

 

Been raging in almost every PvP game that has accurate high damage weapons since the dawn of PvP video games.

 

What is appropriate really comes down to what kind of game is Dayz... survival based or military PvP based.

 

If Survival... at BEST sniping should be at least as difficult in real life by an AVERAGE person or one with marginal training.  If those resources don't make sense (wind, sway breathing, gravity calculations) then dispersion makes perfect sense and I would say leaning toward "less skilled" avatars.  At worst extreme ranges should be gimped like they are.

 

No matter what the F you say you can do to counter, the sniping "gameplay" is NOT survival.  The person "snipers" are targeting, looting a city are "surviving". So you could look at sniping as being anti/counter survival as a gameplay mechanism.  So who would you "support" more, the person playing towards the point of the game or those that are not so much?

 

If the game is supposed to be military PvP with some zombies thrown in, then more realistic sniping, ranges, skills make much more sense.

 

I personally believe that I as a survivor IN A GAME should have a moderate expectation of risk in a situation.  I can't be zig zagging fast to avoid snipers form every bush within 1000+m, then not able to clear corners for closer infantry risks.   Bringing in the range a bit, makes it more accessible, allowing me as a survivor to scan corners and slowly clear and move through a city to counter other "survivors" not Snipers..  Sure seeing people at longer ranges is great... give you an advantage to move into a desirable position but being able to take them out fairly easily (and I mean more then top 10% of shooters in game) with a long range zoom one shot kill is a bit too much.

 

There are some good sniper games out there if that is really what you want to do.  Me I want to survive and not get a "you're dead" message from a black spec in a bush on my monitor

That's the problem.  People are constantly comparing this to Arma because well, it was made by the same company.  So those people seem to have it in their head that this game should still play like Arma and we are trained elite soldiers.

[Whyherro123 2283]

1) Sniping in real life is difficult, with advanced training, equipment, and experience required.

2) The Mosin Nagant 91/30 should NOT be the go-to rifle for long range combat. That have middling-to-poor accuracy, due to often-rushed production. If anything, they should be "Survivor's First Longrifle", due to how many were produced, MASSIVE Soviet stockpiles, and the existance of cheap, shitty ammo (In the US, I can purchase an "average" 91/30 Nagant for about $80-100, and a caseload [probably 500 rounds or more] of cheap, corrosive ammunition for another $50, not including shipping)

3) The Nagant 91/30 should NOT be able to mount a LRS. The bayonet and the PU scope should be it

[Evil Minion 943]

@ EvilMinion 

Which is why we should limit ourselves to only few of those factors

Or just throw in a reasonable amount of randomness - same effect, less performance loss, less work. In fact if the developers released a "hyper realistic dynamic bullet flight noise system" you would not see any difference from a random dispersion system. By reducing it to a few elements you can actually calculate in you would actually create a less believable system where highly skilled players could take shots not even the best sniper in the real world would be able to take. Which also hurts the overall gameplay and experience.

 

Now you should be able to hit a human sized target within your weapons effective range if you completely overcome bias (sway, wind, weather etc.). Noise should only affect smaller targets within your effective range or targets outside of your effective range. I think ingame dispersion would be perfect when the group you shoot at your weapons effective range is about as wide as the torso of your character model. Outside a weapons maximum range* even the best shooters should not have a 100% chance to hit their (human-sized) target.

 

There should be multiple skills necessary:

• keeping your weapon and yourself in good condition
• using ammo that is in good condition
• adjusting to exterior factors (wind, weather, distance, target movement etc.)
• adjusting to interior factors (sway, stance, getting your aim on target etc.)
• knowing and adjusting to your weapons effective range

If you manage to fullfill all of those prerequisites you should be rewarded by hitting your target. Not just by "point faster, click faster" - thats how casual games do it.

 

*Which is - if I am not mistaken - ~800m for the Mosin.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Evil Minion

[Jex 1104]

Or just throw in a reasonable amount of randomness - same effect, less performance loss, less work. In fact if the developers released a "hyper realistic dynamic bullet flight noise system" you would not see any difference from a random dispersion system. By reducing it to a few elements you can actually calculate in you would actually create a less believable system where highly skilled players could take shots not even the best sniper in the real world would be able to take. Which also hurts the overall gameplay and experience.

 

Now you should be able to hit a human sized target within your weapons effective range if you completely overcome bias (sway, wind, weather etc.). Noise should only affect smaller targets within your effective range or targets outside of your effective range. I think ingame dispersion would be perfect when the group you shoot at your weapons effective range is about as wide as the torso of your character model. Outside a weapons maximum range* even the best shooters should not have a 100% chance to hit their (human-sized) target.

 

There should be multiple skills necessary:

• keeping your weapon and yourself in good condition
• using ammo that is in good condition
• adjusting to exterior factors (wind, weather, distance, target movement etc.)
• adjusting to interior factors (sway, stance, getting your aim on target etc.)
• knowing and adjusting to your weapons effective range

If you manage to fullfill all of those prerequisites you should be rewarded by hitting your target. Not just by "point faster, click faster" - thats how casual games do it.

 

*Which is - if I am not mistaken - ~800m for the Mosin.

 

 

Randomness is crap. Even a badly built Mosin will fire exactly the same given the same ammunition each time. The barrel may be bent but it's permanently bent, it doesn't randomly bend in the night. Ammo is also likely to be the same quality per box, maybe with variation per box. Every single detail does not need to be included but what they should aim for is making the player learn how to shoot and reward the ones that can be good with it.

 

 

 

He uses an L115A3 firing a .338 lapua round - effective range 1500 yards - actual range of shot, 2707 yards, or 8121 feet. Each shot is called in by the spotter to direct the kill shot onto the target - it's not random.

[bishopomega 30]

I think you're all on crack. In DayZ, you are a civilian. Not a trained, experienced Sniper who has spent months and years being trained by a military weapons expert. You are a cold, hungry and afraid civilian. You can 'rp' someone else but these weapons and mechanics are designed to make combat difficult and problematic. Not every shot is square or has full body penetration. And yes this means that because you 'think' you shot true doesn't mean you did. 

 

Distance, elevation, wind, weather, movement, inexperience and though a weapon says 'Pristine' doesn't make it a weapon oiled and maintained in a military armory by men and women who do nothing else but maintain them. 

 

As I've said before: DayZ is not intended to be a Mod clone. It is a survival game in which firearms are one aspect. Not the only one. If all you're playing for is KOSing everyone you see with firearms you're probably not going to get what you want out of this game when it's all done. And quite frankly I'm kinda tired of these threads. Sometimes I can shoot pretty accurately at 800 meters and sometimes I can't hit crap within 100 meters. However whenever you fire at someone, you always give up your position and make your presence known. In a survival game these are things that I do not like to do unless I have no other choice. Once they make zombies even more difficult and pack hungry for noisy KOSers, this game will finally become what it should. And not what your run and gunners 'think' it should be. 

 

No one is a sniper, you're all just civilians with a rifle that can snipe people, animals and zeds. 

Edited September 8, 2014 by bishopomega

[gibonez 3633]

1) Sniping in real life is difficult, with advanced training, equipment, and experience required.

2) The Mosin Nagant 91/30 should NOT be the go-to rifle for long range combat. That have middling-to-poor accuracy, due to often-rushed production. If anything, they should be "Survivor's First Longrifle", due to how many were produced, MASSIVE Soviet stockpiles, and the existance of cheap, shitty ammo (In the US, I can purchase an "average" 91/30 Nagant for about $80-100, and a caseload [probably 500 rounds or more] of cheap, corrosive ammunition for another $50, not including shipping)

3) The Nagant 91/30 should NOT be able to mount a LRS. The bayonet and the PU scope should be it

 

Yup but I would say even the pu scope is pushing it.

 

Unless they make the pu scope a restricted item and have only 500 or so of them spawn in the world.

 

By an large the mosin should be an iron sighted no optic bolt action starter survivalist rifle.

 

Not very accurate but if the player is skilled body shots at 300-500m are totally doable.

[Evil Minion 943]

Even a badly built Mosin will fire exactly the same given the same ammunition each time.

No it won't. Every weapon has "random" dispersion - the only difference is that in a simulation you use a few pseudo-random numbers while in reality there is a complex dynamic system with myriads of parameters. I don't want a complex dynamic system with myriads of parameters in game as it will eat away my hardware resourcesusing up performance that could be used for more important ingame elements fot the sole reason of being able to say "its not random dispersion" - the effect will be exactly the same.

 

But I also don't want an overly simplified system that changes ordinary survivors that found a sniper rifle lying around into magic supersoldiers that fire with pinpoint accuracy regardless of weapon. Not only does it hurt the gameplay (which has sniping as an element but not as its main purpose) its also by no means authentic. All this would do is giving an unrealistic advantage (pinpoint accuracy) to a group that doesn't need it (snipers) for no reason at all.

 

The guy in the video is a trained sniper with a dedicated sniper rifle and spotter that set a record with the shot. Thats not what he (let alone an ordinary person) could do on a regular basis. The fact that he hit twice over ~200% maximum effective range (an average person hitting 50% of his/her shots*) did not mean he had a 100% chance of hitting. And the exact point of impact was indeed "random". Two shots are hardly enough data here (MOA of an average AWM?).

 

*Which means my suggestion above is most likely a buff relative to reality.

[General Zod 1114]

Yup but I would say even the pu scope is pushing it.

 

Unless they make the pu scope a restricted item and have only 500 or so of them spawn in the world.

 

By an large the mosin should be an iron sighted no optic bolt action starter survivalist rifle.

 

Not very accurate but if the player is skilled body shots at 300-500m are totally doable.

No other weapon takes LRS 

Why don't they replace both mosin and SKS which both are too old to be in this game in such numbers in a first place with a more common civilian rifles that will do the long range job? You are 10000 times more likely to find a decent hunting rifle with a scope than you are to find an SKS or a mosin. And those will do well even beyond 500m

Edited September 8, 2014 by General Zod

[gibonez 3633]

No other weapon takes LRS 

Why don't they replace both mosin and SKS which both are too old top be in this game in such numbers in a first place with a more common civilian rifles that will do the long range job? You are 10000 times more likely to find a decent hunting rifle with a scope than you are to find an SKS or a mosin. 

 

Right now but in the future I am sure there will be other bolt hunting rifles that actually take modern optics right out of the box to replace the mosin.

 

Mosin and the sks were produced in the millions they are absolutely going to be common and thus be found in the game.

 

Statisticlly you are more likely to find an SKS and a mosin over a new production hunting rifle outside of a few exceptions such as Remington 700 of which millions have also been made.

[rybec 339]

I find the arguing in this thread pretty funny.

My own experience with my mosin has not been negative at all. I've never received any training apart from my father giving me a couple tips and with my irons on an old beat up '43 Izhevsk I can hit a 6" steel plate at ~300m fairly consistently. If I took the time and money to mount optics on it I'd have faith in it that it'd still shoot accurate beyond 300m.

You guys must've had mosins that are on the brink of falling apart if mine is so banged up and still solid.

[gibonez 3633]

I find the arguing in this thread pretty funny.

My own experience with my mosin has not been negative at all. I've never received any training apart from my father giving me a couple tips and with my irons on an old beat up '43 Izhevsk I can hit a 6" steel plate at ~300m fairly consistently. If I took the time and money to mount optics on it I'd have faith in it that it'd still shoot accurate beyond 300m.

You guys must've had mosins that are on the brink of falling apart if mine is so banged up and still solid.

 

You were one of the lucky ones.

 

By an large mosins are not like yours. The rifles were hastily built and were not quality controlled , reliable good rifles absolutely. Precision rifles absolutely not the cheap surplus ammo does not help.

[rybec 339]

You were one of the lucky ones.

 

By an large mosins are not like yours. The rifles were hastily built and were not quality controlled , reliable good rifles absolutely. Precision rifles absolutely not the cheap surplus ammo does not help.

But mine is a '43. They were pumping them out like there was no tomorrow to supply the soldiers. Just because they were mass produced doesn't make them awful.

 

I know I've posted this picture a few times before but mine has not been babied before it was bought by me. There are chips and chunks taken out of the stock suggesting rough use, it really hadn't been cleaned in ages and I'm fairly sure the previous owner fired .308 out of it because he must've been retarded.

It's not some pristine 'above average' example of the rifle, but it shoots great.

[BlueCorsair 0]

I am excited about this game. My sons and I have been using it as a way to learn what to expect if a breakdown in society ever were to happen. It has taught us that we can only really trust ourselves and all others will be suspect. It has taught us that when scavenging, one of us had better be on lookout. It has taught us to stay inside the tree line when traveling and to spend a long time observing a town before moving in to get supplies. We have also learned that when crossing a large open area you should run like hell in a random zig-zag fashion and have others covering you.

Personally I want sniping to be as realistic as possible. I want to have to be on my guard and I also want to use the game to learn how to deal with snipers. I want this because I want to learn this in an environment where I can respawn.

By the way, I have trained in the use of firearms and in the prone position; even an AR-15 with open sights can easily hit a 2 foot by 2 foot iron plate at 400 yard. Body shots with an AR are easy at 200 yards.  A scoped, bolt action rifle with either a bipod or using your backpack as a rest can easily hit a man sized target at 600 yards as long as the rifle is sub MOA. With proper technique, there is no sway in the supported prone position.

I want sniping to be “unfair”. I want the game to be realistic. I will travel in a way that is hard to hit and I will only stop under cover. If a sniper takes a shot and give away his position I will either flee, lay a trap or stalk and kill him. It is all part of the game.

[hothtimeblues 128]

I am excited about this game. My sons and I have been using it as a way to learn what to expect if a breakdown in society ever were to happen. It has taught us that we can only really trust ourselves and all others will be suspect. It has taught us that when scavenging, one of us had better be on lookout. It has taught us to stay inside the tree line when traveling and to spend a long time observing a town before moving in to get supplies. We have also learned that when crossing a large open area you should run like hell in a random zig-zag fashion and have others covering you.

Personally I want sniping to be as realistic as possible. I want to have to be on my guard and I also want to use the game to learn how to deal with snipers. I want this because I want to learn this in an environment where I can respawn.

By the way, I have trained in the use of firearms and in the prone position; even an AR-15 with open sights can easily hit a 2 foot by 2 foot iron plate at 400 yard. Body shots with an AR are easy at 200 yards. A scoped, bolt action rifle with either a bipod or using your backpack as a rest can easily hit a man sized target at 600 yards as long as the rifle is sub MOA. With proper technique, there is no sway in the supported prone position.

I want sniping to be “unfair”. I want the game to be realistic. I will travel in a way that is hard to hit and I will only stop under cover. If a sniper takes a shot and give away his position I will either flee, lay a trap or stalk and kill him. It is all part of the game.

Wait, you have kids and you are training them for a real life scenario with a video game? You do realize that the chances of society falling apart like you see on TV and in the Movies is not realistic, right? Please don't teach your kids to be paranoid. It often doesn't end well. The gun lobbysists (NRA) and so in love with people like you who fall for all the movies and TV shows about society falling apart. By the way, I own guns as well, but I don't fall for the lies and paranoia that seems to be popular these days.

But welcome to the DayZ forums.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I am excited about this game. My sons and I have been using it as a way to learn what to expect if a breakdown in society ever were to happen. It has taught us that we can only really trust ourselves and all others will be suspect. It has taught us that when scavenging, one of us had better be on lookout. It has taught us to stay inside the tree line when traveling and to spend a long time observing a town before moving in to get supplies. We have also learned that when crossing a large open area you should run like hell in a random zig-zag fashion and have others covering you.

Personally I want sniping to be as realistic as possible. I want to have to be on my guard and I also want to use the game to learn how to deal with snipers. I want this because I want to learn this in an environment where I can respawn.

By the way, I have trained in the use of firearms and in the prone position; even an AR-15 with open sights can easily hit a 2 foot by 2 foot iron plate at 400 yard. Body shots with an AR are easy at 200 yards.  A scoped, bolt action rifle with either a bipod or using your backpack as a rest can easily hit a man sized target at 600 yards as long as the rifle is sub MOA. With proper technique, there is no sway in the supported prone position.

I want sniping to be “unfair”. I want the game to be realistic. I will travel in a way that is hard to hit and I will only stop under cover. If a sniper takes a shot and give away his position I will either flee, lay a trap or stalk and kill him. It is all part of the game.

Really? This game is so unrealistic in that department, I am actually kind of judging you for using it as a marker.

 

http://www.cracked.com/article_21251_5-things-every-movie-gets-wrong-about-apocalypse.html

 

While it may be on a comedy website, it still is pretty good. 

 

Real life is completely different from Day Z. In real life, if an event of this magnitude were to happen (which it hasn't not once in 40,000 years of human development and civilization), people wouldn't run around fuckmurdering each other, especially if there were few survivors. 

 

In my experience (trained in Disaster management, disaster preparedness, wilderness survival, and group management), people have a tendency to come together when the SHTF, not fall apart. Mutual support, working together, and safety trumps dominance, apparently.

 

Case in point, I once ran a wilderness survival class for a group of 15 or so older teenagers. They were split into different groups, each with different "goals" (signal a plane, walk out of the woods, stay in the woods for a week, avoid all contact, etc), which were often at cross-purposes. All the groups also were competing for a very limited supply of equipment, preserved food, and containers of water. Everything else they had to make or find.

 

ALL of the groups came together very soon after finding each other, even the ones working against the others. They set up a massive camp, and helped each other with tasks, treating the injured ( I had some of my staff pretend to be various stages of wounded.) I introduced some more equipment, later on, and the group gave it up to whoever needed it more, without considering their "secret" tasks. 

 

It turned out that the whole group waited until the "injured" were healthy enough to move, then slowly made their way back to civilization. None of the groups completed their tasks, and when I asked why, they said that staying together and helping each other was "more important than winning" ( I had set up the whole thing like a contest, with whatever group competing their task first "winning" ie passing the class). They also said they were a lot less "afraid" when they were together, than in smaller groups, and could get a lot more done due to division of labor.

 

TL;DR people run around killing each other in Day Z because 1) It is a game and 2) Because there isn't all that much to do otherwise 3) There are no consequences (killing everyone you come across in a real life SHTF scenario would quickly get you exiled from the group, as nobody would trust you or want to trade)

[Whyherro123 2283]

Wait, you have kids and you are training them for a real life scenario with a video game? You do realize that the chances of society falling apart like you see on TV and in the Movies is not realistic, right? Please don't teach your kids to be paranoid. It often doesn't end well. The gun lobbysists (NRA) and so in love with people like you who fall for all the movies and TV shows about society falling apart. By the way, I own guns as well, but I don't fall for the lies and paranoia that seems to be popular these days.

But welcome to the DayZ forums.

Damn straight

 

In my studies, the people who would live the longest (and happiest) lives in a SHTF scenario would be the people who band together in groups, form communities, and behave rather openly to outsiders and strangers.

 

The people who would be the first to die would be the survivalists and preppers, who sit in their cabins polishing their guns. They would die either from starvation (preindustrial farming is HARD), injuries (cant farm or hunt with a broken leg!), or just general mistrust of others , either on their part or on the part of the communities they refuse to interact with.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Yup but I would say even the pu scope is pushing it.

 

Unless they make the pu scope a restricted item and have only 500 or so of them spawn in the world.

 

By an large the mosin should be an iron sighted no optic bolt action starter survivalist rifle.

 

Not very accurate but if the player is skilled body shots at 300-500m are totally doable.

Why? At least the PU scope is a documented attachment for the Nagant 91/30

[harteman 155]

Snipers are the kings of infantry combat.  Nothing instills fear in me like knowing a scoped Mosin could be around.  You have the drop on everyone else is the game when it comes to range, and you can pull an mp5k out of your ass for close encounters.

 

I see no problem in reducing the most OP aspects of the game, and skilled snipers are up there.  At least the map seems designed to hinder them.

[BlueCorsair 0]

Hahaha. No we are not training. We do not expect a real life break down of society. We look at the scenarios and play what if. In game we decided that we do not want to fight others and will not unless cornered. We more use it as a way to see what works to survive different situations. Some translate looslely to real life situations.  For example they learned to navigate using the Sun. We learn how to go about our business unnoticed. We learned that gunshots attract attention. Things that are obvious, but in our normal day to day life we dont have to think about or deal with. If we die in game we discuss mistakes we made and how we can do things different in the future.

Of course large groups are the way to go for survival in real life situations, but if you happened to be out scavaging and are going to check out an abandoned town, you would probably want to spend some time observing the town first. If you spotted a group of people you would probably want to observe them first and decide if they should be approached or avoided. Things like this can be done in game. In fact we have done just that and I would ask them, "well approach or avoid"? We made a decision and faced the concequences of the decision and all learned something.

 

As far as accurate sniper mechanics adding to the game, my point is it may as well be realistic because you can learn to minimize the risk. Move quickly and irratically. Only stop in cover. ect.

[sab0t 109]

cry babies are already getting huge crutches against bandits, which is all i see with why sniping is so bad...insanely fast move speed, 7.62x51mm damage same as 7.62x39, general complete lack of sniping options other than 1 rifle/scope combo, crazy scope sway, crazy clothes armor...the list goes on, but then:

 

i killed a guy with 2 bullets to the head from an AK yesterday...when I checked his inventory, every single item on his person, short of 3 items in his pants, were ruined. I don't know if the bullets travelled into his chest area and as a result the game considered his chest / backpack damaged, but it was the dumbest thing i'd seen in dayz in awhile. 2 bullets destroying 50 something items...

 

there are more than enough crutches for people who don't like banditry, KoS or PvP, the very least that could be conceded is to make sniping fun and enjoyable again.

[Katana67 2907]

While I don't believe sniping should be overly complex (even windage is a bit of a stretch, although still a fun one on occasion) I think there are ways in which it can be made more consequential. Rather than just made more tedious.

 

You want to bag that bambi at 1000 yards? Better craft yourself a decent shooting position.

 

Want to dominate a city from afar? Better find a rare-ass DMR with some rare-ass magazines, a rare-ass scope, and some hard-to-find ammunition.

 

Want to linger in a spot for a while? Better have that ghillie all crafted, better bring a ton of food/drink, and better be ready to fend off zombies if you're firing too many rounds without moving.

 

Long-range shooting as an act in and of itself doesn't have to be made harder (although, I think there's room for improvement in this regard) but getting to the point at which one can snipe effectively should not be an easy undertaking.

[ryanh 36]

Have not noticed a problem myself, when I play on my own I hunt snipers (with a score of 7 to date), mostly around Cherno / Balota, the last one a few days ago in Elektro.

 

When playing in my group we always have two snipers watching from afar as the rest of the team go in to loot, this has proved to be efficient.

I will take a closer look and see what all the fuss is about but to be honest as I said above I have not noticed anything that I would call problematic.

Are we sure half the players who are complaining dont just need to use a splint i dont seem to have issues shooting to 700 at least and body shots not headshots unless i want to gamble missing

[morthrane 2]

Yes, I'm sure that its not a splint issue.  The sway on a mosin, in prone, well rested, with a fully energized/hydrated/healthy player is insane.  The spread is pretty ridiculous as well.  The randomness of the sway is rather annoying too, if you're familiar with the idea of "natural point of aim".

 

In real life, with a basic mosin with irons, you're still gonna be able to approach 2-4MOA groups.  That's five shots into a circle somewhere between 2-4" wide at 100 yards.  At 500 yards, that's ~10-20" wide... against a target that's roughly 19" wide.  For anyone complaining about how easy sniping is... well guess what, that's why they made rifles.  Full power cartridges like the 7.62x54r (the actual mosin cartridge) or the 7.62x51Nato pretty are intended for engagements at 200m and further.  But instead, under ideal conditions, we get a sway and dispersion that is more like 10-30MOA, which can make even hitting targets from 100-200m difficult.  The sway isn't predictable either, which completely kills the "natural point of aim": the idea being that you can regulate your breathing and shoot at the point when your lungs are just out of air.  Use the sway to precisely shoot.  If anything, its actually bad form for precise shooting to hold your breath.  You want to shoot at the end of exhale, between heartbeats... but without interrupting your rhythm.  Its all about repeatability.

 

My only beef-- aside from the lame cartridge mismatching and more advanced windage/ballistics-- is that it is too easy to gunsmith the rifles.  Putting a high power scope on a mosin is not a trivial operation.  Hell, even putting a basic PU scope on a mosin is not easy or trivial.

 

---

 

As for the whining about sniping people in general: grow up.  Its a game with rifles.  Where there be rifles, there be snipers.  Learn how to think like a sniper, and you can negate their advantage.  Pay attention, and think proactively: if I were a sniper, where would I want to setup in this area?

Disclosure: I've only killed two players in 288 hours of SA-- one in self defense by axe, one by mosin at ~50m-- and only one player in well over a thousand hours of mod play in cheranus and podagorsk.  That isn't to say I couldn't... just that I won't.  I play for different reasons than most PvP types.

[gibonez 3633]

 

Long-range shooting as an act in and of itself doesn't have to be made harder (although, I think there's room for improvement in this regard) but getting to the point at which one can snipe effectively should not be an easy undertaking.

 

A complex shooting system would solve alot of the games fundenmental problems though.

 

DMRs would once again be viable additions without having the community throw a rage fit due to how easy they are to use.

 

No longer will people complain about a 12 year old sniper killing them from half a mile away.

 

While I am not saying it has to be as complicated as something like this.

 

Even simple wind and angular scope adjustments would solve alot of the problems with sniping while still having it be an enjoyable experience.

 

Long distance shooting should never be something a 12 year old or a novice picks up and masters within seconds especially not in a game with perma death.

Edited September 9, 2014 by gibonez

[Trizzo 632]

A rather spurious claim considering range finders are coming back, considering how generous finding 0 is anyway.

The ability for a Mosin to group with a great deal of accuracy is not really here or there. They are rough, ready, mass produced rifles and should not be compatible with LRS or bipod unless they add a drill tap set or are modern varieties. I'm all for tools and add ons done right but a jimmy job is not going to outperform even your basic hunting rifle (Tikka, Remington) in terms of accuracy.

However! I will concede that there is a need for a modern LR platform, civ and mil varieties.

A ballistic turret scope wouldn't go amiss as well and would be fantastic if they add correct zeroing.

When the sum of sniping involves on average four zero corrections I do have a sense that a lot of complaints are cry wolf, I don't think it's going to get any easier for y'all.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Trizzo