The 'war on snipers'

[rybec 339]

rifle shootan

You're making me nostalgic of times when I used to have a notepad on my desk infront of me for games with numbers, passwords, or names on it for quick reference to the game I was playing at the time.

[Bororm 1156]

You're making me nostalgic of times when I used to have a notepad on my desk infront of me for games with numbers, passwords, or names on it for quick reference to the game I was playing at the time.

 

I write down ranges from my favorite sniping spots on a notepad on my desk =P

[sloasdaylight 129]

I write down ranges from my favorite sniping spots on a notepad on my desk =P

I do the same. Plus I've been sniping for so long now that I've gotten pretty decent at judging distances by eye.

[Rammur 59]

Sway is fine this isnt a god damn lobby based shooter its a simulator no run and gun bs simply learn to adapt too it and time your shots the game isnt cs or cod play it like your suppose too.Thank god its not warz where you bunny hop with snipers thats some bs crap too.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Rammur

[gibonez 3633]

I write down ranges from my favorite sniping spots on a notepad on my desk =P

 

Would be nice to one day have to print out our own dope sheets or use a notepad and then have it on our desk for reference and no longer using the 100m easy mode elevation changes in game.

 

[General Zod 1118]

You're making me nostalgic of times when I used to have a notepad on my desk infront of me for games with numbers, passwords, or names on it for quick reference to the game I was playing at the time.

Edited September 11, 2014 by General Zod

[dirrly 70]

You're making me nostalgic of times when I used to have a notepad on my desk infront of me for games with numbers, passwords, or names on it for quick reference to the game I was playing at the time.

 

Yeah, good old times. The first MMORPG I was playing had absolutely no description of the effect of items ingame. So I had printed descriptions of every item ingame next to the PC. And additional descriptions of the quests because of no questlog or something like that. Don't know how many papers it have been.  :D

Edited September 11, 2014 by dirrly

[Bororm 1156]

Yeah, good old times. The first MMORPG I was playing had absolutely no description of the effect of items ingame. So I had printed descriptions of every item ingame next to the PC. And additional descriptions of the quests because of no questlog or something like that. Don't know how many papers it have been.  :D

 

I still have my everquest binders.  Tons of maps and stuff printed out.  Games used to be so much more mysterious before it was so easy to just alt tab and look everything up, or have a second monitor etc.

 

DayZ does a decent job really, without including tutorials or mini maps etc in game, but unfortunately it's just a matter of alt tabbing to the dayzdb any more.

[doctorbadsign 645]

I think it is a good thing to be honest.

 

Sniping is not something that involves just pointing a crosshair at a target and killing it instantly. It requires practise and training. I'd say the sway is an approximation of the fact that people in DayZ are not elite snipers. I don't think point and click sniping is realistic or authentic.

[Bororm 1156]

The sway isn't even an issue, I'm pretty convinced everyone complaining about it are people who aren't using splints/morphine.  Again, if you've been hit at all use a splint, it'll fix your sway.

[PongoZ 127]

Randomness is crap. Even a badly built Mosin will fire exactly the same given the same ammunition each time. The barrel may be bent but it's permanently bent, it doesn't randomly bend in the night. Ammo is also likely to be the same quality per box, maybe with variation per box. Every single detail does not need to be included but what they should aim for is making the player learn how to shoot and reward the ones that can be good with it.

 

He uses an L115A3 firing a .338 lapua round - effective range 1500 yards - actual range of shot, 2707 yards, or 8121 feet. Each shot is called in by the spotter to direct the kill shot onto the target - it's not random.

 

lol

 

The actual published accounts of that brit shot are that he was well into his third magazine before he hit. 

Your first paragraph is entirely wrong. 500 meters is a long way to hit a head size target with a 4x ww2 surplus scope. The rifle will heat up a great deal and if nothing else, imediat subsequent shots would show an impact on the rifle.The snipers in WW2 were not making those shots with actual selected sniper rifles. To think you will do so with pieces gathered in abandoned barns and ammo you found beside the stove in an abandoned house is kind of crazy.

[PongoZ 127]

All rifles sway unless they are in a vice. Complaining about rifle sway as if its some sillyness introduced by the devs just shows how far you have lived from rifles.

bipods - sway, shooting bags - sway, some fence you find - sway.

Nothing the shooter can do will hold it firm but a vice.

So real shooting is learning to deal with that, doing so with 4 power optics at a head target 500 meters away in marginal lighting with a 70 year old service  rifle with a 5 pound trigger pull and muzzle damage that you have put 50 rounds though in the last day is actually totally impossible.

[Judopunch 523]

I think it is a good thing to be honest.

 

Sniping is not something that involves just pointing a crosshair at a target and killing it instantly. It requires practise and training. I'd say the sway is an approximation of the fact that people in DayZ are not elite snipers. I don't think point and click sniping is realistic or authentic.

I'm a very good shot in trapshooting. I own a pistol and use my fathers .306 occasionally.

I, prone with a bipod, can hit an milk-jug at about 80 yards, after aiming for a few seconds provided I lay correctly.

If I have to move one way or another because I have shouldered the weapon incorrectly I have to re-shoulder the weapon. This makes every shot I fire take between 5 and 20 seconds. I do not believe I could reliably hit the target while standing.

The idea of hitting a moving target, at 300 yards, laying on the side of some god forsaken hill makes me laugh. There are a few of those people out there but not many. It takes practice, training, equipment, and skill. 

It is not fun to be minding your own business in a survival game, and get picked off from over 300 yards away. It is also not probable that anyone other than a rifle expert is capable of doing it.

Is there some 'war on snipers'? No. But it shouldnt be very easy not only for the health of the game, but because its hard. Are the weapon mechanics in the game finished? No, there is some work still to be done. But as usual, the Devs know what they are doing and the game keeps getting better and better.

[Judopunch 523]

All rifles sway unless they are in a vice. Complaining about rifle sway as if its some sillyness introduced by the devs just shows how far you have lived from rifles.

bipods - sway, shooting bags - sway, some fence you find - sway.

Nothing the shooter can do will hold it firm but a vice.

So real shooting is learning to deal with that, doing so with 4 power optics at a head target 500 meters away in marginal lighting with a 70 year old service  rifle with a 5 pound trigger pull and muzzle damage that you have put 50 rounds though in the last day is actually totally impossible.

It would blow peoples mind how past 100 yards if you pull the trigger incorrectly even slightly you miss by several feet.

[General Zod 1118]

The sway isn't even an issue, I'm pretty convinced everyone complaining about it are people who aren't using splints/morphine.  Again, if you've been hit at all use a splint, it'll fix your sway.

The question is, why do we have to use them when we don't have a fracture ?

[q.S Sachiel 470]

The general consensus / superstition is that you do have a minor fracture or sprain, you just dont' know it because the inv system / player response (red text) doesn't communicate your issue.  You should just know the default healthy sway of your rifle (it looks to be 1-2deg lateral for SKS) and if you're wobbling it's time to suck some opiate or put on a splint.  I'd really like to see painkiller tabs work like they did in the mod/MGS

Edited September 13, 2014 by q.S Sachiel

[Bororm 1156]

The question is, why do we have to use them when we don't have a fracture ?

 

q.S Sachiel explains it, but it's a bug.

[Schweinsteiger 107]

 

All rifles sway unless they are in a vice. Complaining about rifle sway as if its some sillyness introduced by the devs just shows how far you have lived from rifles.

bipods - sway, shooting bags - sway, some fence you find - sway.

Nothing the shooter can do will hold it firm but a vice.

So real shooting is learning to deal with that, doing so with 4 power optics at a head target 500 meters away in marginal lighting with a 70 year old service  rifle with a 5 pound trigger pull and muzzle damage that you have put 50 rounds though in the last day is actually totally impossible.

Well, no. Not really. I shoot (not a lot anymore and I never got into long range rifle shooting) and if you're benching it the freaking barrel does not sway. Now you directing the shot from the back end, yeah in that regard, there is movement. Most rifles, unless they are complete shit, are more accurate then the shooter (mechanical accuracy). I think the main point is that most of us (in the world of Dayz and in the real world) are not elite snipers. Anything past 300 yards should be fairly hard to take out (meaning the game should make it harder on you if you are not lying prone and you don't have a bi-pod).

 

Some asshole over 400 yards out should really have to work hard at stealing all your gear.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Schweinsteiger

[TyrDaishi 36]

I'm under the impression by now that many who are saying they don't want sniping to be easy are just lazy and want to loot the airfield without risk or care. People who don't even want to snipe or never did.

 

And the second kind of people who are saying it's too easy... Well could it be that those "snipers" are sitting in a bush 200 meters from their target? Because hitting a moving target 800 meters away, sometimes even a static target is NOT easy in Dayz. Serverlags, glitches, high ping, exploids that give you so much armor that a player can take up to 7 mosin hits (actuallyI never encountered someone like that I just read that here in the forums somewhere) are making it fairly difficult to hit players as it is.

 

Just yesterday I shot at someone at 800 meters (I knew the distance was correct because I shot from there before) 10 times while he wasn't moving at all and he just didn't die, I couldn't even see that I hit him ONCE. Which never happened to me before in several 100 hours of gameplay. Even if shooting is not "realistic" in a traditional sense due to the limitation in computertechnology it can be anyway. So there are different kind of "obstacles" one has as a sharpshooter in dayz. Also I don't think the dispersion is so high that 10/10 shots can be a miss. Maybe a visionbug I dunno.

 

[edit] Also: Even when you hit someone with the first shot often enough he is alive and will just run off into the woods. The map is designed pretty well and it's not possible to get off a second shot before the target disappears.

Edited September 16, 2014 by TyrDaishi

[gibonez 3633]

I'm under the impression by now that many who are saying they don't want sniping to be easy are just lazy and want to loot the airfield without risk or care. People who don't even want to snipe or never did.

 

And the second kind of people who are saying it's too easy... Well could it be that those "snipers" are sitting in a bush 200 meters from their target? Because hitting a moving target 800 meters away, sometimes even a static target is NOT easy in Dayz. Serverlags, glitches, high ping, exploids that give you so much armor that a player can take up to 7 mosin hits (actuallyI never encountered someone like that I just read that here in the forums somewhere) are making it fairly difficult to hit players as it is.

 

Just yesterday I shot at someone at 800 meters (I knew the distance was correct because I shot from there before) 10 times while he wasn't moving at all and he just didn't die, I couldn't even see that I hit him ONCE. Which never happened to me before in several 100 hours of gameplay. Even if shooting is not "realistic" in a traditional sense due to the limitation in computertechnology it can be anyway. So there are different kind of "obstacles" one has as a sharpshooter in dayz. Also I don't think the dispersion is so high that 10/10 shots can be a miss. Maybe a visionbug I dunno.

 

[edit] Also: Even when you hit someone with the first shot often enough he is alive and will just run off into the woods. The map is designed pretty well and it's not possible to get off a second shot before the target disappears.

 

It has nothing to do with wanting to loot with complete safety.

 

It is all about making a gameplay feature within dayz more complex and giving it depth to further flesh it out.

 

Right now sniping is insanely easy it literally requires no skill, just guess the range and point and click, if you miss walk your bullets.

 

It makes little sense that the games easiest way to kill and hardest real life equivalent is so mind numbingly easy in game.

I mean even arcade shooters like Battlefield have harder sniping mechanics and those are games with respawning instantly and no real consequences to dying.

 

The secondary reason why sniping needs to mirror real life is the added control that it would give experienced snipers. Making shots at exactly 532 meters would now be a possibility no longer would you be stuck estimating with the current easy mode system.

[PongoZ 127]

sniping is more of a challenge for the devs here because the map is not designed to constrain it like on less ambitious games.

So all the terrain is there crying for long range engagements.  But the rifle and environment considerations are not up to simulating it.

 

Hell the number of actual people who could see a person at those ranges with the naked eye is constrained IRL. Despite the richness of the enviroment in the game, its still stark compared to real life. 

All challenges to simulating long range precision shooting, its way to easy in game.

[Bororm 1156]

I'm under the impression by now that many who are saying they don't want sniping to be easy are just lazy and want to loot the airfield without risk or care. People who don't even want to snipe or never did.

 

And the second kind of people who are saying it's too easy... Well could it be that those "snipers" are sitting in a bush 200 meters from their target? Because hitting a moving target 800 meters away, sometimes even a static target is NOT easy in Dayz. Serverlags, glitches, high ping, exploids that give you so much armor that a player can take up to 7 mosin hits (actuallyI never encountered someone like that I just read that here in the forums somewhere) are making it fairly difficult to hit players as it is.

 

Just yesterday I shot at someone at 800 meters (I knew the distance was correct because I shot from there before) 10 times while he wasn't moving at all and he just didn't die, I couldn't even see that I hit him ONCE. Which never happened to me before in several 100 hours of gameplay. Even if shooting is not "realistic" in a traditional sense due to the limitation in computertechnology it can be anyway. So there are different kind of "obstacles" one has as a sharpshooter in dayz. Also I don't think the dispersion is so high that 10/10 shots can be a miss. Maybe a visionbug I dunno.

 

[edit] Also: Even when you hit someone with the first shot often enough he is alive and will just run off into the woods. The map is designed pretty well and it's not possible to get off a second shot before the target disappears.

 

The only thing making sniping "difficult" is bugs/lag, the things you listed like desync etc.  There's no difference as far as the game is concerned between shooting a player at 100m and shooting a player at 800m if they are stationary, and you aren't aiming at their toe or something where the dispersion will actually matter.

Does that mean you'll never miss a stationary target?  No, because there's sway and it's hard to tell exactly where you're landing your shots and zeroing is hardly ever exactly on an even number.  But for the most part, it's not difficult and if your zeroing is right you'll hit.

 

Hitting moving targets at those ranges can be a challenge, but the challenge is mainly due to inconsistent bullet travel speeds.  If it remained consistent, and you practiced enough, hitting moving targets would become fairly predictable.  Between random bullet velocities due to server lag and desync however, it is difficult.  But those two things aren't something you can actively compensate for.

 

What people want is a little bit more of a consistent challenge, so that practice pays off and there's more skill involved.  In ideal conditions in the current state of the game sniping is just hitting page up/page down till you have the right range.

 

I say this as some one who generally tries to pick spots furthest as possible from where I want to snipe for the extra challenge.

 

edit: Just to clarify a couple things.  I'm not really saying you're wrong, I missed a stationary target at 700m the other night about 10x too.  But after I double checked my zeroing on a wall, I hit him with my next shot.  The ones before that I couldn't actually see my impacts, so I couldn't compensate for it, once I had the zeroing perfect it wasn't an issue.  So again, when things work it's too easy.  When things are buggy/messy there's a "challenge" but not by design.  They need to fix those issues too of course, probably before they increase any actual challenge to the sniping mechanics in general.

 

And your last bit about guys being shot and getting away, I agree with 100% which is why I've mentioned in this thread and elsewhere that 3 shots is too many, and that they should be more devastating in general, with even the first shot really messing you up health/status effect wise.

Edited September 17, 2014 by Bororm

[q.S Sachiel 470]

The only thing making sniping "difficult" is bugs/lag, the things you listed like desync etc.  There's no difference as far as the game is concerned between shooting a player at 100m and shooting a player at 800m if they are stationary, and you aren't aiming at their toe or something where the dispersion will actually matter.

Hmmm, what?

I would have thought that your angle dispersion increase your chance at not hitting things at range.  Sure the bullet can still drop down the vertical line of their body, but what about to the sides?  I thought dispersion was in all directions from center, meaning that if the angle is such that it fits a target at range perfectly while aiming at centre mass, you're still going to have a chance of missing on the sides, because people are taller than they are wide.

I'm not convinced on this one lol...

Edited September 17, 2014 by q.S Sachiel

[Bororm 1156]

Hmmm, what?

I would have thought that your angle dispersion increase your chance at not hitting things at range.  Sure the bullet can still drop down the vertical line of their body, but what about to the sides?  I thought dispersion was in all directions from center, meaning that if the angle is such that it fits a target at range perfectly while aiming at centre mass, you're still going to have a chance of missing on the sides, because people are taller than they are wide.

I'm not convinced on this one lol...

 

Dispersion is pretty minimal on the mosin, with a compensator it's nearly inconsequential.

[q.S Sachiel 470]

fair.  Maybe i'm just too used to akm...