How to stop server hopping.

[Jex 1104]

At least 90% of the DayZ players will NOT wait 10 minutes to log in for any reason

If they have to wait any real time they will just go play another game

This is true.. after a couple of 10-minute waits (not even 30 mins, just 10 minutes) most players will give it up

They will not care why they have to wait, they will just stop playing

 

And we're bother about these players why? (lol 90%? did a survey did you? ;))

 

Impatient players can leave as far as I care. If you can't wait 10 minutes then DayZ isn't the game for you.

[GunnyITA 107]

Login sounds!

Login sounds!

[Evil Minion 943]

This is true.. after a couple of 10-minute waits (not even 30 mins, just 10 minutes) most players will give it up

Thats why "normal players" should not get "a couple of 10-minute waits" (and I think thats where the old system might have failed). And for people who insist on server hopping... Either they got the patience to wait - then they kind of earned their reward as they made it through added (time) effort and risk (other players might join the server in the meantime). Or they give up - at which point their negative impact on gameplay is reduced.

 

Most other players will probably be able to cope with the changed situation and simply reduce their number of switches. And most of the time real life forces you to take additional switches real life will also make sure you are busy for the time you have to wait - unless you already hopped to the maximum you can stand - then its your own fault.

[pilgrim* 3514]

And we're bother about these players why? (lol 90%? did a survey did you? ;))

 

Impatient players can leave as far as I care. If you can't wait 10 minutes then DayZ isn't the game for you.

 

If impatient players leave, you don't have a game to play any more dude.

 

Do you know anything about video gameplayers ? Are you a player yourself ?

What percentage of players of any video game are ready to wait TEN minutes to log in to a game ?

Ask around in the industry.

 

You are ready to wait I guess ? Please tell us what is a reasonable time that you would wait to log in to a game.

Really ?  ;)

Edited August 20, 2014 by pilgrim

[bauertschi 254]

Thats why "normal players" should not get "a couple of 10-minute waits" (and I think thats where the old system might have failed). And for people who insist on server hopping... Either they got the patience to wait - then they kind of earned their reward as they made it through added (time) effort and risk (other players might join the server in the meantime). Or they give up - at which point their negative impact on gameplay is reduced.

 

Most other players will probably be able to cope with the changed situation and simply reduce their number of switches. And most of the time real life forces you to take additional switches real life will also make sure you are busy for the time you have to wait - unless you already hopped to the maximum you can stand - then its your own fault.

 

The timer should also contain an explanation describing why ppl get the penalty. Not just "You switched back to a previous server after going to another one for a short time", but explaining that ghosting is prevented with the timer. Of course you tell more ppl about ghosting who might never have even heard about it, but if the timer is there, it does not matter.

 

Having the timer rules in a blackbox and ppl just getting anoying timers without knowing why is probably a big part of the rage against timers.

[bauertschi 254]

If impatient players leave, you don't have a game to play any more dude.

 

Do you know anything about video gameplayers ? Are you a player yourself ?

What percentage of players of any video game are ready to wait TEN minutes to log in to a game ?

Ask around in the industry.

 

You are ready to wait I guess ? Please tell us what is a reasonable time that you would wait to log in to a game.

Really ?  ;)

 

It should be possible to create a system that only hurts those that hop or ghost - well unless you are the unluckies guy on the planet with the worst isp out there and get disconnects because of that all the time. Allowing a timer free switch every x minutes and not counting server restarts or server kicks in there doesn't hurt anyone. It should be able to get a basic set of rules that do not overtax ppls inteligence and can be played with avoiding penalties. Ppl who force the issue can wait, their choice.

 

Now what I don't understand is why this:

"if you log out and want to rejoin after 30 second have passed you have to wait 5 minutes (independent of switch penalty)"?

 

Nerfing that would help the unlucky guys...

[General Zod 1118]

If impatient players leave, you don't have a game to play any more dude.

 

It's really simple, if you are impatient don't server hop or ghost. You won't have to wait. 

Edited August 20, 2014 by General Zod

[Evil Minion 943]

What percentage of players of any video game are ready to wait TEN minutes to log in to a game ?

Ask around in the industry.

Every single MOBA player and everyone who likes to enjoy the favors of matchmaking. People are willing to wait if it makes the game more enjoyable.

The timer should also contain an explanation describing why ppl get the penalty.

Definitely - players should know what is going on without asking around or reading guides. It might be reasonable to warn people right before they do something that might cause a penalty and give a detailed explanation for every single waiting time.

Now what I don't understand is why this:

"if you log out and want to rejoin after 30 second have passed you have to wait 5 minutes (independent of switch penalty)"?

 

Nerfing that would help the unlucky guys...

The problem is a form of ghosting/combat logging here. Your character will stay ingame for 30 seconds after logging out to avoid a cheap escape when facing danger. Now if you could log back instantly within those 30 seconds you could just take over your character who is still on the map and play on. However, logging in after those 30 seconds would make your character disappear for a few seconds. Now those seconds could create bad ingame situations.

 

Consider a player running into a house combat logging. His character manages to disappear right before the enemy enters the room. The player logs back in while the enemy leaves the room checking elsewhere - and our combat logger can take him by surprise by coming out of a "secured" room. Thats just one way to deal with it - other options are a log in sound and the OPs suggestion that come with their own issues. Or you could change the 30 seconds for both "character stays ingame" and "free rejoining" - but that would also increase risk for everyone logging out for good.

It's really simple, if you are impatient don't server hop or ghost. You won't have to wait.

Thats the core point. People using the mechanic would have no or only were short switch times while people abusing the mechanic would have to wait much longer. In this case you could even argue that it is no abuse anymore but a legit strategy that trades ingame risk for waiting times (which the current server hopping is not).

Edited August 20, 2014 by Evil Minion

[arlingtine 27]

k... wow... now i understand. was saying before not to bitch about server hopping. so wrong. had never been affected by it before. then went to all the effort of spending over an hour getting to nw airfield. killing with axe so as not to attract more. only to find it cleared when i got there. not because other people in game cuz there was only 3 one with me the others nowhere to be found. then what? more people appear in the base because they are jumping. i get it now. you are right. it is a cancer.

[pilgrim* 3514]

Here is a different idea that is simpler, also more interesting in gameplay.

 

Suppose there were areas of the map where you COULD NOT log out

When you are in one of those you have a red dot in the top corner of your screen

Around the 2 airports.. maybe other key locations too, would be no logout zones

 

If the server restarts, your position is saved and you log back in where you were, as normal (no advantage/disadvantage to anyone)

If you disconnect yourself inside the zone you respawn (suicide)

But if you want to log out normally you have to move OUT of the no-logout zone first.

 

I think this could deal with hoppers AND make the NWAF and the other hot combat zones more exciting..

for instance if you have someone pinned down in a building, you KNOW they will still be in there, however long it takes.. to the end

Just like real life.

 

I like the idea of solutions that are "inside" the game, so that they are part of the gameplay and everyone has to take them into account while they play.. instead of solutions that stop them from playing and keep them outside the game longer.

 

??

Edited August 20, 2014 by pilgrim

[bauertschi 254]

...

Consider a player running into a house combat logging. His character manages to disappear right before the enemy enters the room. The player logs back in while the enemy leaves the room checking elsewhere - and our combat logger can take him by surprise by coming out of a "secured" room. Thats just one way to deal with it - other options are a log in sound and the OPs suggestion that come with their own issues. Or you could change the 30 seconds for both "character stays ingame" and "free rejoining" - but that would also increase risk for everyone logging out for good.

Thats the core point. People using the mechanic would have no or only were short switch times while people abusing the mechanic would have to wait much longer. In this case you could even argue that it is no abuse anymore but a legit strategy that trades ingame risk for waiting times (which the current server hopping is not).

 

That sounds awfully risky to do to me. First you have to time your logout so you don't get shot. Then you have to guess when to best log in again, ... but if it is a thing, ok. A lot of ppl log out and come back rather soon because of real life things. Maybe 3 minutes is ok here, but that is just finetuning.

 

Here is a different idea that is simpler, also more interesting in gameplay.

 

Suppose there were areas of the map where you COULD NOT log out

When you are in one of those you have a red dot in the top corner of your screen

Around the 2 airports.. maybe other key locations too, would be no logout zones

 

If the server restarts, your position is saved and you log back in where you were, as normal (no advantage/disadvantage to anyone)

If you disconnect yourself inside the zone you respawn (suicide)

But if you want to log out normally you have to move OUT of the no-logout zone first.

 

I think this could deal with hoppers AND make the NWAF and the other hot combat zones more exciting..

for instance if you have someone pinned down in a building, you KNOW they will still be in there, however long it takes.. to the end

Just like real life.

 

I like the idea of solutions that are "inside" the game, so that they are part of the gameplay and everyone has to take them into account while they play.. instead of solutions that stop them from playing and keep them outside the game longer.

 

??

 

I like the idea of no logout zones, but instead of suicide I would use a random spawns outside the area. What about isp disconnects, other problems, game crashing, ... random spawn outside the zone make it random enough to be dangerous so reasonable ppl would prefer to leave regularly instead of disconnecting in a no log zone, at the same time unlucky guys or ppl that had to immediatelly leave because of real life are not punished too much. Having to leave the keyboard should not be a death sentence, think of parents, ... .

 

I don't know how long this thread will continue, but I really think that making a few rules like the discussed ones can help tremindously to fight hopping and ghosting while not creating problems for normal players. Also global loot things like for helicopters are not a problem with such things, so arguing that Dean himself said ppl might have to search other servers for helicopter parts is out of the discussion. No one can tell me that he had loot hoppers and ghosters in mind when he said changing servers will be neccessary.

Edited August 21, 2014 by bautschi

[pilgrim* 3514]

I like the idea of no logout zones, but instead of suicide I would use a random spawns outside the area. What about isp disconnects, other problems, game crashing, ... 

Having to leave the keyboard should not be a death sentence, think of parents, ... .

 

Well, I thought about this before posting.

If the server restarts or if you are kicked (for any reason) you log in at the same place you were logged out.

But - problem - if you disconnect with Alt-F1 kind of thing, I thought you must be respawned because :

 

In the no-logout zone disconnecting and being respawned outside the zone would give you a safe passage out of any trouble.

 

If you're trapped in a house, you disconnect and respawn outside the perimeter, you''re safe.

And worse, if you are in a firefight anywhere in the zone, you can disconnect and be logged back in at a random location outside the firefight area, big ghosting advantage to you.

 

So I figured, if you go into this 'no-logout' zone, you know the risks.. you have to run for maybe 1 minute to get outside the zone to log out -  and sure in that 1 min all kinds of bad things can happen, zombies, ladders, players - but that's true anywhere.. the only difference here is you can't hide and logout right where you are.. and if you disconnect you are respawned. You know the risk when you enter the area.

So maybe there's a power cut or your mum switches off the pc or the internet provider shuts down suddenly.. It's bad anywhere in DayZ to be suddenly cut off from the game, probably zombies will eat you,or a player will shoot you, or when you log back in you'll fall off the roof, whatever.. So in this zone do your best to not leave the game, because it's a No Excuses zone, and you know the cost before you go in.

 

Anyway, I don't see any other way to work it. I liked the idea of no-logout zones because it's an in-game solution that becomes part of the gameplay, and can make the game more interesting.

And this is my best estimate of how it could work.

 

Yes, if you are disconnect from your end - for any reason - when you're in the zone you're dead.. but .. it's a serious place to be, you take the risk.

If you can't log out at all in that zone it's going to be an intense place anyway.

Edited August 21, 2014 by pilgrim

[CornProducts 315]

The only real way to prevent it is through private hives, or shards, or whatever they're called.

 

Private hives solve the problem. No need to make the solution any more complicated than it needs to be.

[Evil Minion 943]

Private hives prevent server switching - so they won't solve the problem at all. Its simply a completely different "battlefield". The suggested solutions would not affect private hives/single server shards in regards of server-hopping but they would still improve the experience in terms of combat logging/ghosting.

 

Consider the discussion focussed on public hives/multi server shards - private hives have different issues like limited capacity, capped rarity etc.

 

I am no fan of no-logout zones in general as it restricts the players choice of how to play the game too much. It would barely help against server hopping (people would just need to add "move in" and "move out" to their server hopping routine) but impose some major limitations on casual play. Bad luck would have horrible results, real life circumstances would have horrible results, getting kicked would have horrible results etc. Also its no soultion to combat logging outside of those zones leading to perceived inconsistent combat mechanics.

 

Being spawned outside is probably a better way how to deal with it (and abuse isn't as bad - you have to log out in a freaking danger zone after all) but it would still disrupt group play and punish excessive server hopping even less.

 

The timer system is still my favorite (updated list):

• first switch free, further switches cost increasing waiting time
• no penalty for switching when kicked or in case of server restart (up to 10min before - where joining the server should be impossible)
• if you switched to another server you have to wait 30 minutes before you can rejoin the old one (independent of switch penalty)
• if you log out and rejoin within 30 seconds you can play on with your character as if nothing happened (no switch penalty increase)
• if you log out and want to rejoin after 30 second have passed you have to wait 5 minutes (independent of switch penalty)
• switch time penalty applies after leaving rather than joining the next server - in case of rejoin it gets ignored, not increased and the rules above apply
• when about to leave people will be warned and shown:
  • their expected switch time
  • their expected time to rejoin (all three variants)
• when stuck in waiting time players can see the reasons for the time penalty (list with timestamps)
• waiting time should be shown before joining a server
• after waiting time a "Ready" button appears - after pressing it you will spawn instantly
• there should be either a log in sound or a few seconds wait before you can fully control your character

[pilgrim* 3514]

 

..//..

 It would barely help against server hopping (people would just need to add "move in" and "move out" to their server hopping routine)

..//..

Being spawned outside is probably a better way how to deal with it (and abuse isn't as bad - you have to log out in a freaking danger zone after all) but it would still disrupt group play and punish excessive server hopping even less.

..//..

 

 

OK - understand that I proposed' no-login zones' ONLY as an alternative to the silly proposals in this thread.

For myself I have no problem with server hoppers, and they are slated to become an official game element with the central loot control system. This is what we hear, right ?

 

But to answer your points:

 

1 ) "people would just need to add "move in" and "move out" to their server hopping routine"

So they would not be "HOPPING" any more!  This is clear. People move in and out of all kinds of areas to loot, of course they move ON the server where they are looting. That is not "hopping".

 

2)  "being spawned outside is probably a better way how to deal with it"

Won't work. Did you not read my explanation of why this is a non starter ?

 

Once it is understood that players who change servers are not evil, then the only question is how to balance the game to take them into account, fairly for all players.

 

Making it longer and more difficult to log in to DayZ, introducing log-in penalties, is by far the worst proposal

I doubt any of these ideas will be implemented, once the 'server-hopper-haters' and xenophobe players have shut themselves away into their private games,

and left us 2.5 million normal players out here in the real DayZ

But surely there are better schemes than log-in-time-penalties ??

Of course there are !

Edited August 21, 2014 by pilgrim

[Evil Minion 943]

[...]

For myself I have no problem with server hoppers, and they are slated to become an official game element with the central loot control system. This is what we hear, right ?

[...]

Once it is understood that players who change servers are not evil, then the only question is how to balance the game to take them into account, fairly for all players.

[...]

Making it longer and more difficult to log in to DayZ, introducing log-in penalties, is by far the worst proposal

Thats why we are still talking instead of going "Private hives! -> Problem solved!". No server hopping is not evil, it just nets people who hop excessively an advantage that hurts everyone else. Why? Because the pathways they are using for getting gear are:

• extremely fast (compare switching server to running from military base to military base)
• very low risk (you can only be shot for 30 seconds while traveling and you can control the probability of getting shot on destination by chosing it)

So yes - its a matter of balancing the game not about "removing evil serve hoppers". Switching to anyother server every day or even after some hours is the kind of server hopping that should be encouraged while switching multiple times within a few hours should be discouraged and simple server switching for meta reasons should not be punished. Thats what the proposed system does and long waiting times would only apply if you switched multiple times during a certain time frame. Quoting you here: "no excuses". A "normal player" would hardly end up with more than 10 minutes of waiting time so if you get more you chose it that way in exchange for lower risk. You can still go for the classic looting sprees but you will now pay the right price instead of only getting an advantage.

But surely there are better schemes than log-in-time-penalties ??

Of course there are !

I am not sure if you don't actually argue against the old "10 minutes for everyone" system. Sure there is something better - only applying log-in-time-penalties to excessive server hopping! Are there even better options? I don't know but if they exist I have never seen them. The other suggestions in this topic hit normal players too hard and excessive hoppers to little (in my opinion).

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

I am not sure if you don't actually argue against the old "10 minutes for everyone" system. Sure there is something better - only applying log-in-time-penalties to excessive server hopping! Are there even better options? I don't know but if they exist I have never seen them. The other suggestions in this topic hit normal players too hard and excessive hoppers to little (in my opinion).

 

 

Yes, Evil Minion - we dont disagree (that's the first point)

 

For me the only real 'advantage' of a no-log zone is that it is a solution inside the game, so it becomes part of the gameplay. and any in-game solution seems cool, but outside solutions, like having to wait through a penalty time outside the game, seem less satisfying. That's really my main idea, and I came up with the 'zone' idea after thinking about in-game possibilities. Then I also noticed it's an added plus that you can't log out - in an intense pvp danger zone - because it makes all the action there more exciting and critical... but whatever.. I already put this up as a suggestion.

 

Reading your post I had another idea:

 

Your main point about a penalty log-in waiting time.. ( dont cringe yet) how about a zone of log -in waiting time ? If you log in anywhere out in the country - in the sticks - you can log straight in - whatever you did on other servers previously,  but if you want to log in near a major loot location, you suffer the log in penalty you suggest.

hmm ?

So there would be a tradeoff - if you are a hardcore hopper :

do you log-out/log-in close to your destination, and suffer the time penalty?

or do you run off into the sticks to log out, and then log back in with no time penalty but with a good distance to cover on this server before you reach your objective?

 

It also means you would be arriving at the airport or barracks across country like normal players, and not popping up in a corner 10 feet from the barracks, or inside the control tower.

Yes, and to simplify, why not have the log in waiting time for everyone who wants to log in or out in that zone ? Why else would you want to log in there, except to loot ?

 

= only an idea =

Edited August 21, 2014 by pilgrim

[bauertschi 254]

OK - understand that I proposed' no-login zones' ONLY as an alternative to the silly proposals in this thread.

For myself I have no problem with server hoppers, and they are slated to become an official game element with the central loot control system. This is what we hear, right ?

...

2)  "being spawned outside is probably a better way how to deal with it"

Won't work. Did you not read my explanation of why this is a non starter ?

 

Once it is understood that players who change servers are not evil, then the only question is how to balance the game to take them into account, fairly for all players.

...

 

The central loot system will mean that you switch server and search that server for something. Sooo no time penalty there, only switching too often would trigger that. I doubt Dean had in mind that ppl loot an area, log, loot the area again, log, loot the area again, .... when he talked about that. It's not like the helicopter part you are looking for is on the nwaf ATC, it is somewhere. You will spend enough time on the server.

 

Spawning outside is not clear, could mean outside the area or outside the house. I would like always putting ppl outside buildings, at least you would not be shot in the back in buildings you already cleared. A login sound would solve that, too, but seems to be not liked very much.

 

Hopping servers to farm interesting locations on different servers again and again is as bad for the game as duping. The hopper gets loot faster by using the exploit of getting to interesting buildings faster. Additionally those that run around on the map like idiots suffer with interesting locations being empty. The best example are all the east towns that are totally unlooted but have looted police stations. That's not helpful for balancing. I really got to take up the noble trade of hopper hunting. Everyone can hop servers, fine. Everyone can dupe, too. No reason to do it. I really don't see how that can be taken into account in the game and treated fairly for all players. And please no proposals like when you switch servers, you cannot take anything in a vicinity of 1km or something like that. Depending on where you are, 1km might be a lot (if you are starving in the middle of Novo) or nothing at all (if you are hopping nwaf or chopper crash locations).

 

Of course changing servers from time to time to meet up with ppl or some other reason is not evil.

 

...

Your main point about a penalty log-in waiting time.. ( dont cringe yet) how about a zone of log -in waiting time ? If you log in anywhere out in the country - in the sticks - you can log straight in - whatever you did on other servers previously,  but if you want to log in near a major loot location, you suffer the log in penalty you suggest.

hmm ?

...

 

I like that idea very much, but I would like to see it in combination with general time penalties as described above. There simply is no reason to hop every 20 minutes. Especially switching and then going back being penalized with a long wait is the only useful idea I have ever heard against ghosting.

 

As it comes up again and again, yes, we will get private hives (or slices with only one server in them). But why do we have a public hive at all? It would have been way easier for BI to make chars restricted to the server you play on. I'm not going into advantages and disadvantages here, that's a whole new discussion for a new threat. For me it's like we are discussing how to get rid of some pests in the basement and ppl responding with "no problem, we will nuke the city, pests gone." If private hives are the thing you want and are happy with, fine, they are coming. But there is still a public hive and just we are discussing suggestions helping there. And private slices (or what they are called) including more than one server will have the problem, too.

Edited August 21, 2014 by bautschi

[pilgrim* 3514]

..//..

As it comes up again and again, yes, we will get private hives (or slices with only one server in them). But why do we have a public hive at all? It would have been way easier for BI to make chars restricted to the server you play on. I'm not going into advantages and disadvantages here, that's a whole new discussion ...

..//..

 

Personally I'm not a fan of private shards. Some players want to be totally protective of "their" server, "their" loot, etc

But the DayZ game has 2.5 million players ..

Why give up interacting and playing with a population of millions spread over 1000 servers, and shut yourself inside one server with maybe 10 friends ?

DayZ with only 10 or 20 players ??

If you do this you are banning 2 million players from "your" private server.  In my view - you have to be crazy.

The public hive IS the game.

[bauertschi 254]

Personally I'm not a fan of private shards. Some players want to be totally protective of "their" server, "their" loot, etc

But the DayZ game has 2.5 million players ..

Why give up interacting and playing with a population of millions spread over 1000 servers, and shut yourself inside one server with maybe 10 friends ?

DayZ with only 10 or 20 players ??

If you do this you are banning 2 million players from "your" private server.  In my view - you have to be crazy.

The public hive IS the game.

 

Admittedly you could make a private hive and let everyone in, but there are plenty of discussions about that topic on the forum. There are advantages and disadvantages, but for me the public hive seems more interesting, BUT loot hoppers definitely need to be discouraged. And a big ass time penalty against ghosting is definitely needed.

[jtmarine1 1]

How about if you log for over lets say 15 mins, you come back in the same place you left off because you are more then likely not server hopping or ghosting.

Else you log back in at a completely random spot in the map "x" amount of meters away from logout spot.  so guess what you wanna jump to loot airfield to airfield....... start running!! nuff said. after the time it takes you to loot, log, log, run, loot i bet by the 2nd or 3rd time you get tired of running.

[jubeidok 495]

Why shouldn't they ? Is dayz some sort of communism simulator ? Everything must be shared ? I know it's somewhat Russian, but calm down comrade Stalin  They entered empty server to loot in peace let them loot. We are here to punish server hoppers not make everyone play on 35/40 servers. 

Seriously, what is wrong with you people, restricting rights of normal players to prevent server hopping. Sound like 'murica land of the free, with free cavity search and full body scan at every airport. 

 

There's a reason why you can't rent a 5 slot server.

[R0B3RTF1SH3R 66]

server hopping keeps EVERY SERVER active. 

its a great idea. so many games go under and peoples resources wasted on these 0/40 servers for all the other games that failed. 

not dayz. this idea is paramount for anyone hosting a dayz server. 

your always going to get people in. 

 

dont remove it.

[General Zod 1118]

There's a reason why you can't rent a 5 slot server.

There is a difference between looting empty server which everyone can join and having your own loot farm. 

[alldaypk 63]

I done like this idea because it exposes you to random danger when you logged out in a safe area. You could log out in a tree line and spawn in the middle of a city. Sometimes your character loads in world before you even see anything and you can be killed.

 

I think this is the point op is trying to suggest, to combat serverhopping