Why...........(movement and avatar control)

[hothtimeblues 128]

true man, would totally ruin the whole concept

I'm so confused. Are you guys saying that if Dayz had tight, properly implemented controls... then it would be too easy for players to kill each other and ruin Dayz? That' makes no sense. 95% of everyone here likes PVP. So why would having decent controls that actually work necessarily mean there would be too much PVP? No one said we need to do a 360 in the air and shoot a round before feet hitting the ground. I think what the OP meant is that the controls in Dayz are so shitty and unresponive. He probably just wants to be able to hit the weapon hot key one time and at some point, see his damn character actually pull out the weapon. The controls are super clunky and horrible. We can have tight and responsive controls, but not have pin point laser guided bullets.

So everyone here is confusing having laser pin point bullets the same thing as having tight responsive controls. CS has both of them and I think he just meant the responsive moment of the characters to be honest with you.

Edited August 13, 2014 by hothtimeblues

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

What? So because Arma's controls are tight and correct, we should just avoid wanting DayZ, which is an awesome concept, and just play Arma?

So we just need to shut up and not be Dayz fans if we don't like crappy controls?

no, you should shut up and not play DayZ if you can't handle an Alpha

 

 That was not directed at you personally but to everyone who bitches about the damn game.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Caboose187

[newguyzombie 122]

I'm so confused. Are you guys saying that if Dayz had tight, properly implemented controls... then it would be too easy for players to kill each other and ruin Dayz? That' makes no sense. 95% of everyone here likes PVP. So why would having decent controls that actually work necessarily mean there would be too much PVP? No one said we need to do a 360 in the air and shoot a round before feet hitting the ground. I think what the OP meant is that the controls in Dayz are so shitty and unresponive. He probably just wants to be able to hit the weapon hot key one time and at some point, see his damn character actually pull out the weapon. The controls are super clunky and horrible. We can have tight and responsive controls, but not have pin point laser guided bullets.

So everyone here is confusing having laser pin point bullets the same thing as having tight responsive controls. CS has both of them and I think he just meant the responsive moment of the characters to be honest with you.

its not the controls its the serverperformance you are talking about. go on low pop and hit the weapon hotkey, you ll see your weapon comes out instant.

 

and im not talking about that there will be to much pvp. dayz is so interesting cause you have to play a very different way in pvp than in cs go

Edited August 13, 2014 by newguyzombie

[Death By Crowbar 1213]

95% of everyone here likes PVP.

This is where you're mistaken, or at least misunderstanding. 100% of everyone here will PVP if it comes to that, but far less than 95% are playing DayZ solely for PVP, because after all, DayZ isn't a PVP game. It's a survival game, with PVE and an ever present PVP threat. If you think the point of the game is to run to an airfield or Berezino and start blasting everyone you see, well, you won't like this game very long and you certainly won't want to play the final product.

 

I think what the OP meant is that the controls in Dayz are so shitty and unresponive. He probably just wants to be able to hit the weapon hot key one time and at some point, see his damn character actually pull out the weapon. The controls are super clunky and horrible. We can have tight and responsive controls, but not have pin point laser guided bullets.

The controls are still a work in progress, as the whole game is a work in progress. This is what it's like to play an Early Access Alpha product, it's not remotely fished, refined, or optimized properly yet, and it's relying A LOT on the community to submit feedback and report bugs. The controls being complained about are known issues easily found in the bug tracker which you can (and should!) vote on or further report. The entire engine which was an Arma port is being re-written piece by piece and many of the systems are being rewritten. Heck, Zeds only just recently moved to navigating via navmesh. Of course the responsiveness of the controls and such needs to (and will) improve, but there are many systems that aren't even implemented yet and/or that are being re-designed to better fit the end goal of DayZ.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

This is where you're mistaken, or at least misunderstanding. 100% of everyone here will PVP if it comes to that, but far less than 95% are playing DayZ solely for PVP, because after all, DayZ isn't a PVP game. It's a survival game, with PVE and an ever present PVP threat. If you think the point of the game is to run to an airfield or Berezino and start blasting everyone you see, well, you won't like this game very long and you certainly won't want to play the final product.

The controls are still a work in progress, as the whole game is a work in progress. This is what it's like to play an Early Access Alpha product, it's not remotely fished, refined, or optimized properly yet, and it's relying A LOT on the community to submit feedback and report bugs. The controls being complained about are known issues easily found in the bug tracker which you can (and should!) vote on or further report. The entire engine which was an Arma port is being re-written piece by piece and many of the systems are being rewritten. Heck, Zeds only just recently moved to navigating via navmesh. Of course the responsiveness of the controls and such needs to (and will) improve, but there are many systems that aren't even implemented yet and/or that are being re-designed to better fit the end goal of DayZ.

Don't you hate sounding like a broken record that goes through one ear and out the other?  You can say this as many times as you want and people will still put the fingers in there ears going lalalala

[flimsypremise 94]

I love the combat in this game. It's one of the only FPS games I've played where situational awareness, positioning and planning beat reaction speed and other fundamental twitch skills. If someone has the jump on you, you can't just spin around and shoot them. You need to get to cover, prepare yourself, devise a response and act. Combat is chaotic and confusing, as it should be.

[doctorbadsign 645]

Lol one does not simply come on the DayZ forum and say that you want it to be more like COD...

Edited August 13, 2014 by DoctorBadSign

[hothtimeblues 128]

Don't you hate sounding like a broken record that goes through one ear and out the other? You can say this as many times as you want and people will still put the fingers in there ears going lalalala

So when do controls get fixed? Beta or after? Be sure to show us how righteuous and firm your beliefs are in exactly how normal the pogress of this game is. I'll be the first guy to say I was dead wrong to question anything. How are so many things only going to be fixed much later if we can't test hardly any improvements after 8 months? Yes we are testing navmesh now, so that is a great start. I'm still positive that everything will be fixed but how are we supposed to know this is on par progress?

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

So when do controls get fixed? Beta or after? Be sure to show us how righteuous and firm your beliefs are in exactly how normal the pogress of this game is. I'll be the first guy to say I was dead wrong to question anything. How are so many things only going to be fixed much later if we can't test hardly any improvements after 8 months? Yes we are testing navmesh now, so that is a great start. I'm still positive that everything will be fixed but how are we supposed to know this is on par progress?

Here is a little hint.  

 

Alpha = Adding and breaking things

Beta = fixing and polishing things.

[King Raptor 191]

So when do controls get fixed? Beta or after? Be sure to show us how righteuous and firm your beliefs are in exactly how normal the pogress of this game is. I'll be the first guy to say I was dead wrong to question anything. How are so many things only going to be fixed much later if we can't test hardly any improvements after 8 months? Yes we are testing navmesh now, so that is a great start. I'm still positive that everything will be fixed but how are we supposed to know this is on par progress?

 

I do not recall the mod having very good controls either. Nor did ARMA 2.

This guy sums up the way all these games responds to keyboard input:

 

 

The best word that I've seen used to describe DayZ player movement/controls is "clunky." It really is, and this is not a good thing imo. It's frustrating to say the least. Just walking through a house can be a pain sometimes. It's not precise, and it should be because it's a video game, not real life. When I press "W" my character should immediately move forward, and when I release "W" it should immediately stop. Gun sway is fine, but gun control should not lag. I really do hope the devs make movement and controls more fluid. 

 

The controls are extremely clunky and they have been designed that way. They didn't 'accidentally' end up this clunky. I doubt these games will ever feature fluent FPS controls because somehow the developers think a game will be more realistic when the player has less control over his avatar.

 

I recall trying to play the ARMA 2 tutorial where some gunplay is involved and I could barely get from one end of the town to another while I was fighting, it just felt like you're wading through a bathtub full of quick-hardening cement. It's not much better right now, especially not in tight spaces or when the game is laggy.

 

Sure it's an alpha but like I said: these controls were designed to be clunky, it's not an alpha-bug and that's my problem with DayZ.

Edited August 13, 2014 by King Raptor

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I do not recall the mod having very good controls either. Nor did ARMA 2.

This guy sums up the way all these games responds to keyboard input:

 

 

 

The controls are extremely clunky and they have been designed that way. They didn't 'accidentally' end up this clunky. I doubt these games will ever feature fluent FPS controls because somehow the developers think a game will be more realistic when the player has less control over his avatar.

 

I recall trying to play the ARMA 2 tutorial where some gunplay is involved and I could barely get from one end of the town to another while I was fighting, it just felt like you're wading through a bathtub full of quick-hardening cement. It's not much better right now, especially not in tight spaces or when the game is laggy.

 

Sure it's an alpha but like I said: these controls were designed to be clunky, it's not an alpha-bug and that's my problem with DayZ.

Which is why ARMA/DayZ is not meant for everyone.  This is not your typical boring average shooter.

[Deathlove 2286]

Is it so hard? Imagine if they made dayZ but just like the way counter-strike GO is. The same fluidity. I can imagine an open world every time I play CS:GO. If they could make the combat as dope as CSGO but in an open world environment.. it would change the game. Im not sure why it's so difficult to make it as smoothe/fluid as an FPS like CSGO or COD Even.

Maybe because the game was NEVER meant to be a straight up FPS slug fest. Idk maybe they intended to make this thing called a SURVIVAL game.

[EvilTigerAce 131]

 

As with all good things, it takes time to make a game perform/run better - fluidity.  CS have been going to decades.  Also the fact the maps are tiny (relatively speaking) has a direct correlation to fluidity.

 

 

This. Why? I will explain.

 

Any object that is not a visual object (so you cant shoot it, it wont register hits) asks every player if the player is hitting it, and the player asks the object if it hits it. Every destructable object needs much more memory. because it also has to ask other objects (so it won't fall/roll through other objects) too, and not only to the players.

 

Yeah I fail at explaining, but this is why CS:GO has not netcode issues etc. because there are barely destructable objects, the objects are minimal, mainly structures and walls. I tried to keep it easy to read, but that makes it hard to read :P

Edited August 13, 2014 by EvilTigerAce

[hothtimeblues 128]

Surviving what? Unresponsive keys? Again, I think we are misunderstanding. I think the OP meant quickly responsive controls, not super human abilities of shooting a bullet laser straight.

Or maybe I misunderstood so I'm sorry if I did. But I think the surviving aspect of the game is if it's hard to find food, ammo etc........ It's ridiculous if the way to make it hard to survive is to make controls that don't work right. That's crazy.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Surviving what? Unresponsive keys? Again, I think we are misunderstanding. I think the OP meant quickly responsive controls, not super human abilities of shooting a bullet laser straight.

Or maybe I misunderstood so I'm sorry if I did. But I think the surviving aspect of the game is if it's hard to find food, ammo etc........ It's ridiculous if the way to make it hard to survive is to make controls that don't work right. That's crazy.

The controls are meant to simulate how a human moves.  Your typical FPS games don't even try to simulate real life movement.   Right now it's not perfect but again it's ALPHA.

[Death By Crowbar 1213]

Any object that is not a visual object (so you cant shoot it, it wont register hits) asks every player if the player is hitting it, and the player asks the object if it hits it. Every destructable object needs much more memory. because it also has to ask other objects (so it won't fall/roll through other objects) too, and not only to the players.

Exactly what EvilTigerAce said. I believe you can chop down any tree or bush in the world. That's a lot of state to track on that alone. Then there's all of the doors, items, gas stations, corpses, zeds, etc. Entirely different game, entirely different purpose and goal. CS is straight FPS, DayZ is not, and for good reason. But back to the topic at hand on the controls - check the bug tracker on what's been reported and what's where in the voting order. For those who don't participate much in the community and especially the bug tracker it's important to remember to go there, every week, and do your part as an Early Access Alpha participant. If you've not been there to report issues let alone vote on them, here's what it looks like:

Edited August 13, 2014 by Death By Crowbar

[EvilTigerAce 131]

Jup. People don't realize this.

 

Exactly what EvilTigerAce said. I believe you can chop down any tree or bush in the world. That's a lot of state to track on that alone. Then there's all of the doors, items, gas stations, corpses, zeds, etc. Entirely different game, entirely different purpose and goal. CS is straight FPS, DayZ is not, and for good reason.

[flimsypremise 94]

So when do controls get fixed? Beta or after? Be sure to show us how righteuous and firm your beliefs are in exactly how normal the pogress of this game is. I'll be the first guy to say I was dead wrong to question anything. How are so many things only going to be fixed much later if we can't test hardly any improvements after 8 months? Yes we are testing navmesh now, so that is a great start. I'm still positive that everything will be fixed but how are we supposed to know this is on par progress?

 

Games are created on a timescale of years, not months. The game could be in alpha for 2 years and it would be well in the normal range. The fact that you think 8 months is a long time indicates that you don't really understand the nature of the problems that game developers have to solve. The DayZ devs are currently building a global loot tracking architecture for a distributed server infrastructure run by any number of different parties. It has to be scalable, performant and secure. That project alone could take a year to complete, and another year to test and debug. And here you are complaining that the controls are clunky in alpha. Get some perspective.

[xalienax 621]

Games are created on a timescale of years, not months. The game could be in alpha for 2 years and it would be well in the normal range. The fact that you think 8 months is a long time indicates that you don't really understand the nature of the problems that game developers have to solve. The DayZ devs are currently building a global loot tracking architecture for a distributed server infrastructure run by any number of different parties. It has to be scalable, performant and secure. That project alone could take a year to complete, and another year to test and debug. And here you are complaining that the controls are clunky in alpha. Get some perspective.

i think alot of the lack of persepctive comes from the so called "alphas" that come with the pre-order scam these days. in terms of development stage, most of these alpha/betas you get keys to with pre order are infact release candidate builds or very near to. They are not still working on the engine and core framework. you are a guinnea pig being used for stress testing in most cases. the engine functions are finalized and stable, the netcode is in place, and its more or less "feature complete".

 

DayZ on the other hand is in a true alpha state. core code on which everything else is reliant is still being modified and adjusted. key mechanics and features aren't even out of concept stage yet. I by no means like the current state of the game, and even hate some of the design decisions made by the devs, but some perspective is really needed.

[JPWiser 251]

Why................?

Do people play dayz when they so clearly want to play a different game?

[chepaco3290 59]

The controls are meant to simulate how a human moves. 

 

It should, but DayZ clearly doesn't. I don't buy that for one moment. 

 

When I press "W" I should IMMEDIATELY move forward, and when I release "W" I should IMMEDIATELY stop. In real life, I don't tell myself to stop and then keep walking so that I overshoot the door that I want to walk into. That's just silly, man! 

 

But if that's real life to you, then maybe you should see a neurologist. ;)

Edited August 13, 2014 by Chepaco

[bauertschi 254]

I do not recall the mod having very good controls either. Nor did ARMA 2.

This guy sums up the way all these games responds to keyboard input:

 

 

 

The controls are extremely clunky and they have been designed that way. They didn't 'accidentally' end up this clunky. I doubt these games will ever feature fluent FPS controls because somehow the developers think a game will be more realistic when the player has less control over his avatar.

 

I recall trying to play the ARMA 2 tutorial where some gunplay is involved and I could barely get from one end of the town to another while I was fighting, it just felt like you're wading through a bathtub full of quick-hardening cement. It's not much better right now, especially not in tight spaces or when the game is laggy.

 

Sure it's an alpha but like I said: these controls were designed to be clunky, it's not an alpha-bug and that's my problem with DayZ.

 

The controls of the DayZ mod did not blow me away, but I only played a few hours.I think there is a change here though in thinking at BI:

 

Some months back the aiming was different, ppl were arguing about how it should be. Some were saying that turning with a mosin should be slower than turning with a pistol (in terms of actually requireing more mouse movement, totally throwing any muscle memory one might have from other games out of the window), a maximum turn speed was proposed, all kinds of funny things were mentioned with accelleration and decceleration (is that a word?).

Now we have raw input in turning and the weapon lags behind, simulating the lag depending on the weight. That's why some weapons are not great for breaching buildings. We can still argue about the following speed of the weapons or how they zero back in to the middle of the screen or whatever, but I LOVE that feature. I think it took a lot of the clunkiness of the former system out and made it more accessable, not sacrificing that realism/autenticity aspect.

 

The realism aspects must come from the game itself, not through "clunky" user input. And no, that does not mean dumbing down the user input. We are still in early phases and I believe I read somewhere that the complete user input is being redone, we will see. Let's just relax and drink tea. Nevertheless this is also one of my main concerns, especially combined with melee, netcode and zed ai.

Edited August 13, 2014 by bautschi

[DangerousCowFoot1011 0]

if it dosent come out for xbox 360 and ps 3 don't make it for consoles then

[KingOfTime 267]

It should, but DayZ clearly doesn't. I don't buy that for one moment. 

 

When I press "W" I should IMMEDIATELY move forward, and when I release "W" I should IMMEDIATELY stop. In real life, I don't tell myself to stop and then keep walking so that I overshoot the door that I want to walk into. That's just silly, man! 

 

But if that's real life to you, then maybe you should see a neurologist. ;)

That is true....but only if you ignore the latency between your brain/muscles, and the time it takes for friction to overcome your momentum.

[chepaco3290 59]

That is true....but only if you ignore the latency between your brain/muscles, and the time it takes for friction to overcome your momentum.

Yeah, and also if you ignore how tightly you decided to tie your shoes upon spawning, or whether or not that pair of boots you found in the barracks are too big for you. These 2 factors would play into how quickly you can sprint or stop as well as the "latency" and friction that you speak of. 

 

But this is a video game, this isn't real life. When I press a button, it should immediately respond. If people like the clunky, unresponsive movements, that's fine with me. Everyone is allowed their personal preferences. But to say that it is more like real life??? Not a chance.