Adding dynamism to gunfights

[DeatHTaX 1217]

No, you have to accept the fact the game will be all of that, not just your pvp playground.  Everyone is free to play how they choose but must also deal with the fact they may get thrown in thrown into a situation that they are unprepared to deal with.  

 

If I go play Halo and run around pretending I'm a dog, or handing out ammo, or whatever, it does not change the fact that halo is a PvP FPS. 

 

Anyone can play the way they want to play. I play many different ways in DayZ. However, that doesn't change the fact that PvP and player interaction will be the most prevalent element, and most exciting of the game, now and when it's done. Now I am speaking for the majority of the community, if I may. Why else would they put a bunch of guns in the game and give you military gear?

 

I'm sure there are the few people who will get their immense satisfaction from making fires and farming or whatever else they want to do, but I think I'm safe to speak for the majority of the community when I say that DayZ is and will be a game focused heavily on the player element, and survival and zombies will take a back seat.

[Dagwood 680]

I'm sure there are the few people who will get their immense satisfaction from making fires and farming or whatever else they want to do, but I think I'm safe to speak for the majority of the community when I say that DayZ is and will be a game focused heavily on the player element, and survival and zombies will take a back seat.

Yes, player interaction is the driving element behind dayz's entertainment. But the only player interaction that you continuously mention is player versus player. Yes, many people in the community play this game to kill strangers with their friends. But there are other people, like me, who choose to team up with random people and THEN go look for trouble.

If people would be willing to see the other side of the argument and admit even a little of the opposition's merits, the admins wouldn't have to break up every controversial discussion like we're a bunch of grade schoolers. Throwing absolutes at one another accomplishes nothing. Just sayin

[Capo 323]

Just learn the new controls, fuck. They aren't that bad, I disagree with basically everything OP is saying, it feels like he's watched too many movies. 

 

Also because you all seem to think it's so important, I've got 390 hours in SA. 

Edited August 4, 2014 by Capo

[Dagwood 680]

Sorry. We probably are going to be forever plagued without any fluid movement system forever because too many people in the community are in favor of this cumbersome, slow, clunky UI and movement because it's "more realistic" or whatever their reasoning is

-.-

Movement speed while having your weapon raised and clunkiness are two different issues. Which is it that you are arguing needs to be changed? Lumping them together as the same thing isn't helping the discussion move along

-.-

[hells high 676]

Why is it that everyone immediately assumes that when people like us ask for a smoothed out movement system, it is assumed we immediately want this to be turned into some twitch arcade shooter-style mechanics

 

I was not talking to you, I was talking to the original poster who suggested exactly for the kinds of mechanics you don't seem to want (running sideways whilst aiming down your optics, for example, hence my comment about full speed strafing aiming down your ACOG and letting loose on full auto.)

 

I haven't said anything to the contrary... I enjoy the tactical approach, but do not appreciate the lag/clunkiness/etc. This goes for player actions as well such as the "oh look I pulled my weapon out and now I'm putting it back away!" 

 

I will summarize my position in 2 words: Reponsive, intuitive. As long as those 2 factors are there, I'm not rallying for arcade-like mechanics.

 

I only quoted you because you were one of the few concerned about time in game vs. our opinion. In order to save you from looking it up, I figured I'd post it. I was replying to the OP, who made some suggestions like sprinting with your sights up and shooting this way, something I do not agree with.

 

The lag issues with things like the hotbar are completely unrelated to anything being discussed in the original post, they are bugs not intended features of the movement system. Not sure why you keep bringing it up as if anyone wants the game to ignore button presses.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Hells High

[MadWookie 573]

I hadn't played before I read posts about how horrible the new movement speed is when aiming.

Then I play and it's not bad at all. Movement speed could be increased a little for readied while not aiming, but it doesn't even need it.

That's exactly why it's not bad for you, you hadn't played before therefor you have no idea what it was like before.

[Zed's Dead 67]

ITT:

People arguing that this video game inhabited by zombies and in which a morphine/splint miraculously cures a broken arm/leg in seconds should have its movement designed with a "realistic" blueprint.

These also tend to be be the players that haven't played it nearly enough to be put in every situation where the s***ty movement gets you killed more often than not for no other reason than being s***ty. There's no strategy to it, it's just bad. I don't play a video game to pretend that I've carried assault rifles and attempted to shoot them while running, I play this game because video game. This isn't a military simulator. It isn't even a survival simulator. It's a survival game with zombies that's loosely based on authenticity of environment.

Also, NEWSFLASH, DayZ isn't a game where your sole purpose is survival. Survival in both the Mod and the Standalone is trivial at best when you remove other players. It's a game where after establishing your camp/supplies, you go out to kill other people for theirs. It's a game that contains assault rifles, shotguns, bolt-action rifles, semi-automatic rifles, pistols, various sharp and blunt melee weapons, and even f***ing helicopters for a reason.

We're not here to make friends, we're here to survive and then blast other people away. This game needs to be balanced around PVP and encounters with other players, not around making the horribly s***ty zombies somewhat viable enemies by nerfing the controls into oblivion. Your job should be to make the controls accurate, smooth and balanced while simultaneously making the zombies harder. Keep the zombies harmless and let us have our *somewhat* decent controls back until you figure out whatever the hell you're doing with the zeds. Go play State of Decay, take notes, and stop being lazy with this terrible zombie A.I. It's been eight months now and we're slowly creeping closer to beta -- let's see some progress.

First..... Great post. But secondly, why are you assuming that they are puposely nerfing the controls? Is it not possible that they just cant fix them because of the engine or not enough staff?

Edited August 4, 2014 by Zed's Dead

[Zed's Dead 67]

Have most of the people in here got real-world experience with weapons, or are we all basing this off movies/T.V/other games/our own imaginations?

I have over 9 years infantry experience and I can't hit a fucking thing past around 50m while moving at even a normal walk. The speed you have to move in order to maintain a decent sight picture is ludicrously slow.

The problem is only magnified by using optical sights (see what I did there?). Even 50m is pushing it. If you somehow manage to maintain a sight picture while walking at a 50m target, the first round you fire is going to knock your aim off anyways, forcing you to re-establish it.

Those videos you see of soldiers crossing open fields and firing while moving? They aren't hitting a goddamn thing. I would be very surprised if they even hit the wall the enemy was using as cover while running like that. That sort of tactic only works in real life because GUNS ARE FUCKING SCARY.

I challenge you to go to a 200m range with an M16 (I use a C7A2, but same difference), throw a 3x magnification sight on there and hit a man sized target from the standing position. Your arms get tired and start to shake after 10 seconds. Your breath rocks your muzzle up and down each time. Your whole body starts to contort with the effort of keeping the weapon up. When you fire a round, the recoil rocks you back on your heels and skews your aim. The wind affects the flight of the round. If you can reliably hit at 200m standing with a rate of fire greater than say once every 5 seconds, I'll mail you a 24.

The weapons are fine the way they are.

Its laughable to think that all the issues with Dayz controls is because they are trying to achieve such epic realism. Your logic is flawed so bad dude. Arma 2 or 3 is a really hard game because its more realistic than an average fps game but......... The controls are 1000 times better and more responsive than Dayz.

Will you not admit that? I think im done with this forum. 75% of the people here will defend dayz problems with absurd reasoning. What a waste of time.

[slippery gypsy 107]

You seem to be under the misconception that the state of the game now is all it was ever designed to be. Though you may prefer an open world scavenger deathmatch, it was stated from day one that they have much more planned. 

 

Cute pom poms, bro.

they are cute arent they but nowhere near as cute as your complete dayz development cheersquad outfit 

if survival is the focus why is a new weapon introduced every couple of months to a game based off a military sim made by a company that made its name on the back of military sims in a game set in a fictional militant state full of military buildings and vehicles with players running round in military gear that get on forums discussing the pros and cons of game based military weapons futher more go into in-depth discussion about MOA of weapons as oppossed to hydroponics and horticulture and farming or basic first aid ... face it the game is a shooter first and survival game 2nd this game got its pvp stigma years ago and nothing short of pure PvE servers will change it ... 

[Merrick362 (DayZ) 263]

Its laughable to think that all the issues with Dayz controls is because they are trying to achieve such epic realism. Your logic is flawed so bad dude. Arma 2 or 3 is a really hard game because its more realistic than an average fps game but......... The controls are 1000 times better and more responsive than Dayz.

Will you not admit that? I think im done with this forum. 75% of the people here will defend dayz problems with absurd reasoning. What a waste of time.

Wha...?

 

Where did I mention controls? Controls are customizable...

 

You are so far off the mark of both my comment AND the OPs, you're on the moon.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Merrick362

[DeatHTaX 1217]

Yes, player interaction is the driving element behind dayz's entertainment. But the only player interaction that you continuously mention is player versus player. Yes, many people in the community play this game to kill strangers with their friends. But there are other people, like me, who choose to team up with random people and THEN go look for trouble.

If people would be willing to see the other side of the argument and admit even a little of the opposition's merits, the admins wouldn't have to break up every controversial discussion like we're a bunch of grade schoolers. Throwing absolutes at one another accomplishes nothing. Just sayin

 

Obviously you haven't been reading my posts very carefully or you would see that I often cite "player interaction and pvp". They are not the same thing in my context.

 

and please...don't EVEN try to lump me into the child bickering fest that has been going on in this thread. I have conducted my responses with nothing but genuine engagement in the discussion, albeit with a tad of snark on occasion. So CLEARLY you're not even reading my posts at all.

 

And I'm sorry...I forgot that I'm not allowed to approach my point of view with absolutes, because I see certain things as factual and inherent. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you conduct a logical, well versed argument to the contrary that persuades me other wise. Until then, the absolutes I believe are just that - absolutes. I'm sorry but I can't help it if that bothers you.

Edited August 4, 2014 by DeatHTaX

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

And I'm sorry...I forgot that I'm not allowed to approach my point of view with absolutes, because I see certain things as factual and inherent. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you conduct a logical, well versed argument to the contrary that persuades me other wise. Until then, the absolutes I believe are just that - absolutes. I'm sorry but I can't help it if that bothers you.

Factual arguments to an incomplete game?  Please, keep on embarrassing yourself.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

Factual arguments to an incomplete game?  Please, keep on embarrassing yourself.

 

How much of the community will find farming, making campfires, fishing, tying knots in rope, and other survival activities more engaging and exciting game play than player interaction and PvP in the future.

 

 

I know it hurts for you when people use logic in their arguments and bring up statements based on deductive reasoning. Please try not to be so condescending, although it seems to be your one big trick when finding yourself in a discussion/debate with people who have contrary beliefs to yours. So I will ask you politely again. if you don't have anything to contribute to the discussion, please just keep your little one-line "insults" to yourself, and let the grown ups talk.

Edited August 4, 2014 by DeatHTaX

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Please, tell me how much of the community will find farming, making campfires, fishing, and tying knots in rope more engaging and exciting gameplay than player interaction and PvP in the future....

Everyone who didn't buy this to play CoD

[Merrick362 (DayZ) 263]

Please, tell me how much of the community will find farming, making campfires, fishing, and tying knots in rope more engaging and exciting gameplay than player interaction and PvP in the future....

...me?

 

my end game is a tent, fire, fishing line and a raincoat.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

...me?

 

my end game is a tent, fire, fishing line and a raincoat.

 

Cool. That's awesome for you. And I mean absolutely no sarcasm in that statement. But like any product, it is usually tailored to the majority. I will stand firm in my statement that the majority of the community, and by community I mean if you asked every single person who owns this game, that they find player interaction and pvp the most engaging and exciting element in this game, in the current product, and i think even MORE so in the finished product.

 

 

Everyone who didn't buy this to play CoD

 

Are you even capable of logical discourse? Please troll...just go to bed.

[Inception. 9443]

Everyone who didn't buy this to play CoD

 

Are you even capable of logical discourse? Please troll...just go to bed.

 

You two need to stop. Seriously. Countless topics have gone off-topic due to the comments of one, or both, of you. 

 

If you have nothing constructive to say, do not post. It is as simple as that and it goes for everyone else as well.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

You two need to stop. Seriously. Countless topics have gone off-topic due to the comments of one, or both, of you. 

 

If you have nothing constructive to say, do not post. It is as simple as that and it goes for everyone else as well.

Hmmm, my answer was sound and straight to the point of his question so I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here.  He asked a question, I gave an honest answer and got attacked by being called a troll?

[soulfirez 901]

Cool. That's awesome for you. And I mean absolutely no sarcasm in that statement. But like any product, it is usually tailored to the majority. I will stand firm in my statement that the majority of the community, and by community I mean if you asked every single person who owns this game, that they find player interaction and pvp the most engaging and exciting element in this game, in the current product, and i think even MORE so in the finished product.

 

 

 

Are you even capable of logical discourse? Please troll...just go to bed.

Hey there has been nothing wrong with your reasoning in regards to the game being driven by player interaction it is indeed a major part of the game..

 

My question what the hell has that got to do with how the movement works. BIS has always in its FPS games attempted to add a level of realistic movement to the titles ( is it realistic no but it simulates it better than arcade shooters. Games like CS UT COD BF Halo etc etc do not attempt any realisim to there movement there aim is really smooth controls for a great PvP experience it is the aim of there games.

 

Now titles like Arma Dayz and red orchestra they do it a little different they try to limit the player movement in a way that is more like real movement is limited , is it currently a little to clunky yes it is will they smooth animation transitions etc i am hoping so ( arma 3 is about the level of movement i would like them to get to lol.

 

But it is never going to feel move like CS UT or any other game of that ilk because that is NOT THE DIRECTION THEY FOLLOW and that is an absolute for you.

 

This shit reminds me of the shit storm on the red orchestra forums with all the complaints there and it was the same old shit i cant super fast side strafe in and out like i can in COD BF etc its hurting my play style well hello its not ment to play into that play style.

 

So for the TLDR will they smooth the movement out yes will it ever feel like other FPS games that dont fall into the mil sim style nope and you will be waiting a LONG LONG time if your hoping it will..

[Inception. 9443]

Hmmm, my answer was sound and straight to the point of his question so I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here.  He asked a question, I gave an honest answer and got attacked by being called a troll?

 

I am not referring entirely to this topic but rather to a multitude of topics, and reports included.

 

Now, if you would please, let us go back to the topic. If you have any further questions, concerns, complaints or comments, PM me.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

Hey there has been nothing wrong with your reasoning in regards to the game being driven by player interaction it is indeed a major part of the game..

 

My question what the hell has that got to do with how the movement works. BIS has always in its FPS games attempted to add a level of realistic movement to the titles ( is it realistic no but it simulates it better than arcade shooters. Games like CS UT COD BF Halo etc etc do not attempt any realisim to there movement there aim is really smooth controls for a great PvP experience it is the aim of there games.

 

Now titles like Arma Dayz and red orchestra they do it a little different they try to limit the player movement in a way that is more like real movement is limited , is it currently a little to clunky yes it is will they smooth animation transitions etc i am hoping so ( arma 3 is about the level of movement i would like them to get to lol.

 

But it is never going to feel move like CS UT or any other game of that ilk because that is NOT THE DIRECTION THEY FOLLOW and that is an absolute for you.

 

This shit reminds me of the shit storm on the red orchestra forums with all the complaints there and it was the same old shit i cant super fast side strafe in and out like i can in COD BF etc its hurting my play style well hello its not ment to play into that play style.

 

So for the TLDR will they smooth the movement out yes will it ever feel like other FPS games that dont fall into the mil sim style nope and you will be waiting a LONG LONG time if your hoping it will..

 

The core of this erupted I think from the discussion of combat and the importance of a fluid motion in regards to pvp.

 

However, Inception is right, as it has gone a bit off-topic. 

 

My apologies, urrbudy

 

edit: oops double quote

Edited August 4, 2014 by DeatHTaX

[Karmaterror 982]

This whole thing about weather the game is survival or PvP/Interaction orientated....I say why cant it be both?

 

Sure theres a lot of tension and thrills in PvP, but theres also a lot of the same thrill and tension from trying to avoid encounters....stalk people....try to make contact without it degrading into a firefight. That can be just as good endgame as getting into an epic gunfight.

 

With some serious alterations survival could be very difficult in this game, and I hope they go that route. Id rather die 5 times to zeds trying to get to a gun, that find one every life easily. But that relies on many factors. Upping zeds for one (they are the loot guardians aren't they), then altering the loot tables to make hunting much more viable than looting for food (zombies will help this aswell).

 

Is dayz a pure PvP game....No

Is dayz a pure survival game...No

Dayz is whatever YOU want it to be, and exactly what YOU make of it :)

 

PS....anyone ever think they slowed strafe speed to make leaning preferable. Ya know....like IRL....no one would strafe there entire body out from a wall to take a shot....they would lean out...new strafe speed promotes this....realism bitches! :D

Edited August 4, 2014 by Karmaterror

[evil koala 22]

they are cute arent they but nowhere near as cute as your complete dayz development cheersquad outfit 

if survival is the focus why is a new weapon introduced every couple of months to a game based off a military sim made by a company that made its name on the back of military sims in a game set in a fictional militant state full of military buildings and vehicles with players running round in military gear that get on forums discussing the pros and cons of game based military weapons futher more go into in-depth discussion about MOA of weapons as oppossed to hydroponics and horticulture and farming or basic first aid ... face it the game is a shooter first and survival game 2nd this game got its pvp stigma years ago and nothing short of pure PvE servers will change it ... 

 

Well shit guys.. someone get Rocket in here and let him know.. He'll be thrilled to hear that his game just went from like 12% feature complete to 99%! They could release next week! It was awfully silly of him to think he could make something more than just another shooter from a military shooter. And to buy all those other studios and hire those devs.. what a waste..

 

On a more serious note, you might check out Breaking Point for ArmA 3. It sounds like it's more of what you're looking for.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Evil Koala

[slippery gypsy 107]

Well shit guys.. someone get Rocket in here and let him know.. He'll be thrilled to hear that his game just went from like 12% feature complete to 99%! They could release next week! It was awfully silly of him to think he could make something more than just another shooter from a military shooter. And to buy all those other studios and hire those devs.. what a waste..

 

On a more serious note, you might check out Breaking Point for ArmA 3. It sounds like it's more of what you're looking for.

and you know what im looking for ??? you assume you know how I play this game .. simple observation clearly supported by the amount of KoS related threads make as many smart ass remarks as you like wont change the fact the majority of people playing dayz play it as a shooter 

[Grimey Rick 3417]

Uh...

Why exactly did this thread get moved to Recruitment? Lol.

Am I missing something?