Adding dynamism to gunfights

[gibonez 3633]

Now do that in 1st person on a full 40 player server with other players around the corner ready to shoot you.

 

What difference does it make the speed is the same and the only reason I recorded it 3rd person view was so you can easily visualize that the speed is perfectly fine.

[Etherimp 1323]

What difference does it make the speed is the same and the only reason I recorded it 3rd person view was so you can easily visualize that the speed is perfectly fine.

 

 

I personally don't have a problem with the speed... I have a problem with how your character lurches from side to side every time you stop, which makes it unresponsive/clunky, and that is most perceptible in 1st person, and is amplified on laggy servers.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

A large part of the tension that comes from DayZ, especially in the mod, was the clunkiness.  Whether intentional or not, getting stuck into animations and having your character not instantly react to controls added a lot of tension and frustration, which created a large part of the overall experience of the game.

 

What rocket is saying is that he recognizes this, and that they want to maintain that feel while obviously ironing out the shitty parts.  There's a fine line between the character not controlling how you'd expect, and responding too quickly to input that you have to strike to maintain that feeling.  Obviously the game is far from perfect in that regard.

 

 

....wait wait wait...so you're saying that you think Rocket says that the shitty elements of the movement mechanics in this game is a good thing...

 

...and you're on board with this?

 

My god...this community sometimes lol xD

[Bororm 1156]

....wait wait wait...so you're saying that you think Rocket says that the shitty elements of the movement mechanics in this game is a good thing...

 

...and you're on board with this?

 

My god...this community sometimes lol xD

 

It's like you're not reading anything either I wrote or in Rocket's post...

 

 

This community indeed.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Bororm

[Karmaterror 982]

I like the fact we are getting restricted in movement more. Humans don't move like they are depicted in games like CS or one of my faves L4D. Now yes that movement is fun and responsive, but I came to arma 2 in search of something else. Something more realistic and based on tactics not just my best wasd combo followed by snap shooting my way to victory. I found it, the PvP was awesome, I couldn't "snap shot" even if I wanted to cos of mouse accel. Was just what I had been looking for, more realism and challenge. Then I found dayz....all those things...with zombies and some really great survival elements....it was like they were making a game just for me lol

 

I want the SA to be what they told us....a "standalone Version of the mod". I want gameplay as far removed from CS, L4D, BF2 as poss, packed with all those great mill sim features....without them its just another arcady feeling game. I thought H1z1 or rust would fill that gap, a nice accessable jump in and play dayz style game. Leaving dayz to be the niche simulation equivalent.

 

TL;DR - Get controls close to Arma 2, just with refinements. Mill sim elements should remain in SA

[hombrecz 832]

I'd be happy if my char did not randomly put away his weapon, or throw it for no reason.

I mean if devs ironed out all thos glitches and bugs, I would be perfectly happy with movement being slower than in CS or UT.

 

Just please dont let our avatars fall from ladders, be raped by stairs, stand up from prone position when crawling over railway or pavement or such.

 

If that could be fixed, I'd be happy, no need to mutate DayZ into something it was not ment to be.

As Karmaterror wrote, I also expect DayZ SA to be evolution of mod, not anything resembling Counter-Strike or such.

 

edit: I've got 331 hours clocked on Standalone, hope my opinion is allowed.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Hombre

[Etherimp 1323]

I'd be happy if my char did not randomly put away his weapon, or throw it for no reason.

I mean if devs ironed out all thos glitches and bugs, I would be perfectly happy with movement being slower than in CS or UT.

 

Just please dont let our avatars fall from ladders, be raped by stairs, stand up from prone position when crawling over railway or pavement or such.

 

If that could be fixed, I'd be happy, no need to mutate DayZ into something it was not ment to be.

As Karmaterror wrote, I also expect DayZ SA to be evolution of mod, not anything resembling Counter-Strike or such.

 

edit: I've got 331 hours clocked on Standalone, hope my opinion is allowed.

 

 

Of course your opinion is "allowed", and nobody said Gibonez opinion wasn't allowed, only that it's often obvious he's only played 90 hours when he says some of the shit he does.. You don't see a lot of players with 500+ hours logged that can stand behind his opinions because they're often out in left field and would completely ruin the gameplay if implemented. 

 

Also, nobody here wants DayZ to become Counter-Strike... But counter-strike was RESPONSIVE and you knew exactly what your character was going to do when  you pressed certain keys, and you knew exactly how fast or slow you were going to be at any given time. For me it isn't about DayZ being "too slow", it's about it being inconsistent/unpredictable. If you want a game based off of skill you need to be able to rely upon your muscle memory and that requires consistency/predictability. 

[evil koala 22]

Of course your opinion is "allowed", and nobody said Gibonez opinion wasn't allowed, only that it's often obvious he's only played 90 hours when he says some of the shit he does.. You don't see a lot of players with 500+ hours logged that can stand behind his opinions because they're often out in left field and would completely ruin the gameplay if implemented. 

 

Also, nobody here wants DayZ to become Counter-Strike... But counter-strike was RESPONSIVE and you knew exactly what your character was going to do when  you pressed certain keys, and you knew exactly how fast or slow you were going to be at any given time. For me it isn't about DayZ being "too slow", it's about it being inconsistent/unpredictable. If you want a game based off of skill you need to be able to rely upon your muscle memory and that requires consistency/predictability. 

 

What's really interesting is that your only response to the points that he's made is to try to invalidate his opinion by pointing out that he's "only played 90 hours", then repeating yourself ad nauseam. And all this despite the fact that the direction the devs are already committed to has been clearly stated. As a result of that direction, they're completely rewriting the code that interprets player movements.. from scratch. So they're going to be experimenting. So suggesting they throw it all out and just make it physics defyingly super responsive like all the other games isn't going to happen.

[Etherimp 1323]

What's really interesting is that your only response to the points that he's made is to try to invalidate his opinion by pointing out that he's "only played 90 hours", then repeating yourself ad nauseam. And all this despite the fact that the direction the devs are already committed to has been clearly stated. As a result of that direction, they're completely rewriting the code that interprets player movements.. from scratch. So they're going to be experimenting. So suggesting they throw it all out and just make it physics defyingly super responsive like all the other games isn't going to happen.

 

 

Please quote where I stated that I wanted them to throw out the work they were doing to make physics defying movement... Or quote anything where I suggested movement be anything but realistic.

[evil koala 22]

Please quote where I stated that I wanted them to throw out the work they were doing to make physics defying movement... Or quote anything where I suggested movement be anything but realistic.

 

Interesting bit to cherry pick from my post. But I'm really not interested in getting into an argument over semantics and inferred meanings. And besides, I have less than 90 hours in game.

[Evil Minion 943]

-Let the player keep their weapon in the scoped and ready to fire stance when running.

No. Its unrealistic and removes tradeoffs in gameplay reducing depth in the process.

-Vary the speed a player runs with their gun out and scoped depending on how heavy the gun is. A dexterity stat is already in the game used to determine weapon turn rate, this should be easy.

Yes and no - I don't like running while aiming but having different speed while walking/jogging with your gun out is agood thing.

-Make the weapon shaking dependent on the dexterity stat.

Again yes and no. Shaking should depend on the weight of your weapon while dexterity should depend on the weight and the length of your weapon. So while higher dexterity should also reduce sway a weapon with the same dexterity rating but a lower weight should shake less (thats one thing that could make the difference between bolt-action and automatic rifles).

-Enable running sideways

I don't like this as in real life it would often result in tripping. And tripping in a game is not really a good feature. However, without a proper tradeoff it would shift the gameplay far too much towards UT-style breaking authenticity.

-Enable shooting while running

Maybe... if its realistically represented. You should run significantly slower while shooting and your acuracy should be very very bad. As in: you are lucky if you hit anything more than a few meters away. Note that this is about "jogging speed" as you shouldn't be able to fire while sprinting.

[Etherimp 1323]

Interesting bit to cherry pick from my post. But I'm really not interested in getting into an argument over semantics and inferred meanings. And besides, I have less than 90 hours in game.

 

 

That shouldn't affect your ability to make factual statements on forums. If you're going to contradict me and insinuate I was suggesting something, then at least quote where I suggested it and make a valid argument against it.

[hombrecz 832]

For me it isn't about DayZ being "too slow", it's about it being inconsistent/unpredictable. If you want a game based off of skill you need to be able to rely upon your muscle memory and that requires consistency/predictability. 

 

I can agree with that. If you press a button, it should always do the same.

My buddy got recently killed because his weapon refused to stay in his hand, when he selected it from hotbar. It was rather frustrating.

 

edit: Gun fights would be also so much more fun, if wounded players were limping or somehow showing they are injured.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Hombre

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Perhaps some of you should log more hours into an ARMA game before you start flapping your lips about how this game should work.

[-Gews- 7443]

Note that this is about "jogging speed" as you shouldn't be able to fire while sprinting.

Why not? You could fire from the hip while sprinting in OFP. Literally wouldn't hit the broad side of a barn but the option was there. It feels kinda restrictive when you "click" and the gun does nothing.

[Dagwood 680]

Doesn't anyone else think that the firefights in SA are far less rewarding than the mod? The main reason, for me, being the lightning fast flanking maneuvers and UT speed jukes. The mod leveled the reflex battlefield and made the game about quick decision making and steady hands.

Reducing our movement speed would be a step backward toward the mod in that regard.

Also, you guys know you can strafe at the same speed with your rifle lowered.... Right? Just strafe out, raise your weapon, spray, lower your weapon, and strafe back. That's what i know I do when I paintball and need to do some Rambo shit under fire. I don't jog around with my marker in the ready position like some GI Joe robot.

Side note: I use with a phantom stock class marker cause I play fuckin hardcore!

[DeatHTaX 1217]

Doesn't anyone else think that the firefights in SA are far less rewarding than the mod? The main reason, for me, being the lightning fast flanking maneuvers and UT speed jukes. The mod leveled the reflex battlefield and made the game about quick decision making and steady hands.

Reducing our movement speed would be a step backward toward the mod in that regard.

Also, you guys know you can strafe at the same speed with your rifle lowered.... Right? Just strafe out, raise your weapon, spray, lower your weapon, and strafe back. That's what i know I do when I paintball and need to do some Rambo shit under fire. I don't jog around with my marker in the ready position like some GI Joe robot.

Side note: I use with a phantom stock class marker cause I play fuckin hardcore!

 

Sorry. We probably are going to be forever plagued without any fluid movement system forever because too many people in the community are in favor of this cumbersome, slow, clunky UI and movement because it's "more realistic" or whatever their reasoning is

 

-.-

Edited August 3, 2014 by DeatHTaX

[hells high 676]

While I don't agree (necessarily) with making the game more like "twitch" shooters, I think your opinion must be weighed against the fact that you've only played the game for 90 hours.

 

IE - Maybe you don't know as much as you presume.

 

 

I don't like this idea. Part of what makes ARMA and games based on ARMA interesting is that you have to think about how to position yourself to effectively fire on your target. Whether its staying uphill from a heavily traveled road or stopping and going prone to put fire on a moving target, it makes for much more tactical and rewarding combat. ARMA 3 made some excellent advances in mobility with this formula, eliminating a lot of the clunky, inhuman movements and its nice to see DayZ following suit. However I do not want to log into DayZ one day and watch two heavily armed players circle strafing around one another at full speed and blasting away through their ACOGs. Firing from the hip when moving at this speed is a different story, could be good for suppressing an immediate threat in order to take a more reasonable defensive or offensive position.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Hells High

[pale1776 375]

Thank you mr 20 years pro experience at FPS shooters i own CS and back in the day owned UT i am bloody 41 i have more than 20 years playing FPS games nope not to your astounding level maybe but yeah pull ya head out ya butt..

He said they were better games and to some people they very well maybe ( i enjoyed the shit out of both ) but if you believe them to be better why are you playing an inferior game??? Doesnt make sense you play what you like the most and with 1200 hours its seems obvious what he likes playing.

Sand in panties it seems a serious problem on these forums specially in you experts... Logic is seems a lost art the art of talking shit seems the wave of the future..

Forum warriors have gottwn worse...

I had a guy tell me he shot a guy with an AS50 and the guy was blown back 40 feet. When I asked where, he said he was deployed to Iran during Operation Irani Freedom...

Fml

[DeatHTaX 1217]

 

I don't like this idea. Part of what makes ARMA and games based on ARMA interesting is that you have to think about how to position yourself to effectively fire on your target. Whether its staying uphill from a heavily traveled road or stopping and going prone to put fire on a moving target, it makes for much more tactical and rewarding combat. ARMA 3 made some excellent advances in mobility with this formula, eliminating a lot of the clunky, inhuman movements and its nice to see DayZ following suit. However I do not want to log into DayZ one day and watch two heavily armed players circle strafing around one another at full speed and blasting away through their ACOGs. Firing from the hip when moving at this speed is a different story, could be good for suppressing an immediate threat in order to take a more reasonable defensive or offensive position.

 

Why is it that everyone immediately assumes that when people like us ask for a smoothed out movement system, it is assumed we immediately want this to be turned into some twitch arcade shooter-style mechanics, or some example like the one highlighted above is listed...

 

I dont want that either. All I ask is that..

 

1. The controls are responsive and fluid, and feel very natural

2. It doesn't feel like my player is dragging a stack of tires behind him in combat situation

 

that's about it. I don't want to be able to vault off walls or do a bunch of ninja-crap or to run around in combat at lightning speeds. Nothing like that. Just these 2 things.

 

We have neither of those things in the current build, and at this rate, based on how much everyone LOVES this new movement system, probably won't ever happen

 

 

Please pick up a gun aim it then try side stepping as fast as you can out then back in behind a wall and tell me how smooth and natural it feels in real life.... There is a reason soliders lean around corners to shoot because it doesnt have you off balance it gives you a steady position to fire from where you might actually hit something without a spray and prey mentality.

 

People say they dont want arcade handling but this is what they want sorry that IS arcade handling....

 

 

No. Its unrealistic and removes tradeoffs in gameplay reducing depth in the process.

 

 

You "Realism" junkies are going to kill this game...

Edited August 3, 2014 by DeatHTaX

[Etherimp 1323]

 

I don't like this idea. Part of what makes ARMA and games based on ARMA interesting is that you have to think about how to position yourself to effectively fire on your target. Whether its staying uphill from a heavily traveled road or stopping and going prone to put fire on a moving target, it makes for much more tactical and rewarding combat. ARMA 3 made some excellent advances in mobility with this formula, eliminating a lot of the clunky, inhuman movements and its nice to see DayZ following suit. However I do not want to log into DayZ one day and watch two heavily armed players circle strafing around one another at full speed and blasting away through their ACOGs. Firing from the hip when moving at this speed is a different story, could be good for suppressing an immediate threat in order to take a more reasonable defensive or offensive position.

 

 

I haven't said anything to the contrary... I enjoy the tactical approach, but do not appreciate the lag/clunkiness/etc. This goes for player actions as well such as the "oh look I pulled my weapon out and now I'm putting it back away!" 

 

I will summarize my position in 2 words: Reponsive, intuitive. As long as those 2 factors are there, I'm not rallying for arcade-like mechanics.

[Etherimp 1323]

Forum warriors have gottwn worse...

I had a guy tell me he shot a guy with an AS50 and the guy was blown back 40 feet. When I asked where, he said he was deployed to Iran during Operation Irani Freedom...

Fml

 

 

In a discussion where experience with shooters is relevant, it's relevant to bring up experience with shooters.. This doesn't make someone a "forum warrior", and I can easily prove I'm not full of shit.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

In a discussion where experience with shooters is relevant, it's relevant to bring up experience with shooters.. This doesn't make someone a "forum warrior", and I can easily prove I'm not full of shit.

 

My question is instead of asking him "where", why didnt he ask him "why are you such a liar?" lol

Edited August 3, 2014 by DeatHTaX

[Evil Minion 943]

You "Realism" junkies are going to kill this game...

You realize its about "realism where it creates depth" and not about "realism because realism" while most "anti-realism" arguments are used by people who are afraid of depth (mostly because they don't want to be forced to think or learn when playing a game) - which in turn would kill this game (because a sandbox game without a story lives from depth).

 

So the first part was just my opinion and the second part was the reall argument - tradeoffs are making the game more interesting. So you have to decide whether to run at full speed or to shoot at your enemy. The point is that a gun aimed in the general direction of your enemy and firing (think of recoil) would restrict your movement. So no problem with firing while running but only with appropriate downsides like lower running speed and much less accuracy.

[pale1776 375]

In a discussion where experience with shooters is relevant, it's relevant to bring up experience with shooters.. This doesn't make someone a "forum warrior", and I can easily prove I'm not full of shit.

You sure are acting like one, I was replying to the part I quoted ABOUT forum warriors, you know, pointing out that they have gotten worse?

And if you believe that there was such thing as Operation Irani Freedom, and that a .50 BMG will disenigrate and throw you back 40 feet instead of cutting through and nearly cutting you in half, then you are full of shit. But you havent said anything like that, so why would I be bashing you? I just quoted what YOU said about forum warriors. Chill out dude, your acting like one.