The DayZ endgame

[RAM-bo4250 213]

  Also, I don't give two fucks what Dean's goal is, neither should you.  I never make decisions based on someone else's goals in a video game.

 

Wow!

[RAM-bo4250 213]

Not necessary as you could still provide plenty of incentive to work together. However, players will reach a point where they can deal with most things the environment throws at them - probably not on their own but surely by cooperation. At this point your main villains are other players and the PvE elements will be minor obstacles on their own - but might make the difference in combination with those villains. You can and should have other goals still but without villains its only a matter of time and effort whereas villains make it a real challenge by making it possible to "lose".

Sure - I believe most people want this. However its simply not possible for PvE to stay challenging for a well equipped and coordinated group of survivors without making it certain death for single freshspawns. At some point you will have the supplies and the means to survive in your hostile environment - you will still have to care for getting your food, drink, ammo etc. but it won't be as difficult as before - unless you have to deal with rivals that want your resources or enemies powerful enough to destroy you. This way you will probably not stay in "endgame" forever - just as an empire rises, has its glory days but gets crushed by barbarian attacks in the end. If its done right PvE will stay challenging because other players push you back into the dirt pretty soon.

Not easy is not the same as challenging. As a lone wolf or small group its entirely possible you will never reach the point where survival will become easy. Bigger and well organized groups however...

When you can run around in less than half an hour and get geared up, well, like Rambo, and have enough food, drink, and medicine for hours or even days than it's easy - NOT CHALLENGING.

 

When you are not worried about a zombie attack in a zombie survival game than it's easy - NOT CHALLENGING.

 

This is not a strictly PVP game. It's a hybrid. But now it's playing like one because of my two statements above.

 

It's getting better now but the whiners will be out at some point.

[SwarfwgaHead 45]

It all boils down to how you as an individual want to play the game. As much as some people seem to insist PvP is the only real "endgame", there seems to be enough debate in this thread alone to prove otherwise. For you, sure, maybe once you're geared up you want to go shoot some people for the heck of it. For me, if it got to that stage I'd just give up and go play ArmA. PvP is just one part of one element of the game. Player interaction, friendly or otherwise, is an essential part of the game, and in it's current state sure, once you're geared and healthy its the most viable option for keeping things interesting. But player interaction doesn't mean PvP. There are a lot of ways to interact with other players, and sure they're more risky than just shooting anyone you see, but theyre a lot more fun. I'd much rather get a conversation going with another player before bullets start flying. Theres a high chance the feces will hit the fan, but I'd rather take a chance and die than just stick around high pop areas looking for people to have gunfights with. Use your imagination, explore, set goals for yourself, hunt for certain items, set up a wee camp for yourself, help out some newspawns! Chernarus is your rotten, decaying oyster!

[soulfirez 901]

Ah open world sand box game the end game( where classically there is no end game really so to speak) is what ever you want it to be. End game can be building a base or barricading a town with a clan making it a safe haven for survivours it could be an endless banditry method of kill untill you get killed or trying to infiltrate those who have built safe havens and burning them down letting zeds in etc.

 

Hell try to get a brutal civilisation going like say barter town in mad max 3 and have your own thunder dome lol . If you have no vision no imagination then yeah i guess there is no end game but with a little thought on your behalf or those you play with you could come up with some cool ideas.

 

End game comes when you get that message you are dead what you do before that is completely up to you ....

[Parazight 1595]

You really needed that long of a post to state the obvious? No duh the endgame is PVP it already is about PVP and always will be about PVP. Anyone and their grandma who played DayZ ever mod or stand alone know that  PVP is the endgame. This is a redundant discussion of course even if we add more PVE and RP elements (which we will) it will always end up being about PVP...Nothing new here folks move along, move along. I am seriously dumbfounded at how you think that long post was some how profound and new.

Well, this thread started off, more or less, as a warning to people who expect this to be a game about survival and not player versus player deathmatches.  Granted, this is just my view on the whole situation.  I don't recall making the claim that this is profound and new.  If you already know that this game is PVP endgame then yes, move along.

 

My advice is to not read the forums if you don't want to see redundant topics.  People talk on forums.  That's what they're there for, ya know?

[RAM-bo4250 213]

Well, this thread started off, more or less, as a warning to people who expect this to be a game about survival and not player versus player deathmatches.  

Again, um, no. PVP is part, not all.

 

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[ebrim 998]

This seems a little wrong-headed as though there must be one element that all else needs to be geared to. If that element exists at all, it should be survival in itself, calories should be rare and precious, the environment should be a danger, being soaking wet and getting hypothermia should be a problem. To claim that staying alive right now is trivial is fair but it seems short-sighted to think that everything will always be as easy as it is now when many things like infections aren't even implemented. That said, the OP is right in that people's behavior will shape the game as well and there are more than enough people who just want to get into a dense urban environment and snipe at each other. That shouldn't be actively discouraged, let them murder each other at will within the confines of hardcore survival that affect all. To everyone else it gives dangerous areas of the map to adventure into not just from zombies or the odd roaming player but a heavily-trafficked killzone of people with short-attention spans, living out some sort of bizarre military fan-boy fantasy. They're just as important to creating the overall environment as your Les Stroud wannabe wilderness survivor in the northwest who must make the occasional trek into town for ammunition.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Ebrim

[Evil Minion 943]

Again, um, no. PVP is part, not all.

And as the game (or better: your current state) progresses this will - naturally as you aquire more and better tools for survival - become less challenging while the player interaction part will get more important. Now player interaction is not limited to mindless deathmatch but if your power level reaches a certain limit you will find the only way to "lose" is by either doing something stupid or getting beaten by another player. Which totally includes getting killed by the environment after someone reduced your power e.g. by breaking your legs inside a zombie infected town or by stealing your gear.

[Parazight 1595]

Again, um, no. PVP is part, not all.

 

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Uhh, what?  It's fine if you disagree but please give examples, use logic and critical thinking to support your view.  Just posting one statement with no evidence isn't really doing anything for your argument.  I've stated my opinion and explained thoroughly why I think it.  Please do the same if you're going to participate in a discussion.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Uhh, what?  It's fine if you disagree but please give examples, use logic and critical thinking to support your view.  Just posting one statement with no evidence isn't really doing anything for your argument.  I've stated my opinion and explained thoroughly why I think it.  Please do the same if you're going to participate in a discussion.

You discussion is flawed because you are only telling people DayZ is one thing and others have pointed out that DayZ is multiple things.  Again you are telling people "PvP" only in a game that is at most 20% complete in the aspect of survival so if you want to have a discussion about the apparent "End Game" you have to listen to what others are saying without sticking your fingers in your ear going lalalalala.

 

/thread

[Parazight 1595]

You discussion is flawed because you are only telling people DayZ is one thing and others have pointed out that DayZ is multiple things.  Again you are telling people "PvP" only in a game that is at most 20% complete in the aspect of survival so if you want to have a discussion about the apparent "End Game" you have to listen to what others are saying without sticking your fingers in your ear going lalalalala.

 

/thread

No, I've considered what everyone else has said.  These 'multiple things' that aren't pvp have limited shelf-life.  And will only hold the attention of the consumer for so long.  All of the points that have been used against my 'warning' I've carefully considered.   I'm totally willing to change my beliefs but I haven't seen any arguments strong enough to refute my prediction.  I've also addressed the fact that it's incomplete. 

 

Believe me, nothing would make me happier than to have an mmo that provides an honest challenge beyond pvp.  It's never happened.  I've even set out the challenge to anyone to give a single example where single player mmo content is challenging.  So far, nothing.

 

I don't believe telling Rambo to say more than "No, it's not!" is too far out of line.

[pillock 850]

I don't believe telling Rambo to say more than "No, it's not!" is too far out of line.

 

Yes, it is!

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I don't believe telling Rambo to say more than "No, it's not!" is too far out of line.

It is way out of line.  You opened a thread for a discussion but are refusing to listen to any other discussion but your own words.  This thread is stupid and pointless.

[archamedes 238]

to be fair, after you pass the vulnerable bambi phase and survive to the point where you are able to defend yourself and have all the kit you need, you stop and think to yourself, "okay, what now?" I sometimes feel like putting it down for a month or two and coming back to see whats changed and if its any better, but find a few more features that are bugged, a few more weapons, but nothing in terms of the long term survival goal. It will only become a real game changer for me when barricading and base building becomes the norm. Its always nice ot have somewhere you can call home, because really, everyone in Dayz is pretty much a homeless mercenary.

 

I am definatly going to try out "survive the nights" when that becomes an open alpha release, it has so much potential and a shit ton of features already. It doesn't look pretty or next gen, but I'm not a graphics whore and appreciate that the game is designed by a group of mates with a kickstarter budget.

[Parazight 1595]

It is way out of line.  You opened a thread for a discussion but are refusing to listen to any other discussion but your own words.  This thread is stupid and pointless.

Discussion involves more than;

"no, it's not"

"yes, it is"

"no it's not"

 

"no, it's not"  is hardly a convincing argument.  If you don't want to engage in this thread then please refrain from posting or reading it.  Your problem solved!

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Discussion involves more than;

"no, it's not"

"yes, it is"

"no it's not"

 

"no, it's not"  is hardly a convincing argument.  If you don't want to engage in this thread then please refrain from posting or reading it.  Your problem solved!

It's on a fucking public forum and I will read every stupid thread and post in every stupid thread and tell the person who posted that their thread is stupid.

[Parazight 1595]

It's on a fucking public forum and I will read every stupid thread and post in every stupid thread and tell the person who posted that their thread is stupid.

why so angry?  why are you throwing insults at me?

[Kleppo 1]

My playstyle is survival, and roleplaying. Trying to keep out of sight, avoiding people, trying to live as long as I can. And thats my opinion, everyones allowed to have one, so dont give negative response to mine, as I dont give to you. KOSers are important in my opinion, as because the history shows, that as soon as laws are out the window, many people do turn into homicidal maniacs. So I treat anyone like that, though I only shoot in self defence. And this way its always such a positive surprise, when someone tries to interact with you in other ways than bullets.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

why so angry?  why are you throwing insults at me?

I didn't insult you.  I said your thread is stupid and it is because you refuse to listen to what others have to say.

[Karmaterror 982]

My alternate endgame was base building in the mod, to be fair though that was only to fuel the PvP of our bandit group members. Id bring back a stack of mags from a CS, tent em and by the time id be back from a car parts loot run the lil barstewards would have taken em all lol

 

I agree that PvP is the most challenging endgame, but the PvE aspect is always present aswell, its the blend that works so well. Most games split it...PvE (singleplayer) or go to a zone or game mode for dedicated PvP. Iv seen the zombies polish off a bandit that shot from a firestation tower, when we get that in SA it creates something unique. You don't know what you will be playing against....and cant force it either way :)

 

The customer will come back for that feeling or uncertainty and lack of control over events that dayz provides :)

Edited August 6, 2014 by Karmaterror

[RAM-bo4250 213]

Let me try again Parazight. You keep bringing up the fact that in your opinion the endgame will always be PVP.  In my opinion that isn't necessarily true. As Caboose has stated the survival aspect of the game isn't finished. Hell even PVP isn't finished. The beginning, the middle and endgame will always be to survive. Not JUST pvp, not JUST environment, not JUST zombies. The whole game will be a synergy between the three (or at least it should be) according to the founder of the game (hence the arrow pointing down to my signature). You will eventually run out of food, drink and medicine. That is if the devs don't make it crazy easy to get it in the first place. You will eventually run out of bullets or have your weapon deterioate. Again, if the devs don't make it crazy easy. Zombies will (or should if the devs .... you know the drill) be a problem to be reckoned with. PVP is and should be just one element of the tripod. If you are in a well populated area and you go on your killing spree you should be hounded by hordes of zombies. And then guess what. Even if you've survived your ammo will be depleted, your health will be depleted and so on. Now you're back to the beginning needing to gear up and replenish. Hence, survival is part of this so-called endgame of yours. And it all depends of course on the devs decision to stick with their vision as quoted in my signature.

 

By the way, Parazight, all this was brought up in this thread. Clear?

 

You may be right in the end. The game isn't even published yet. It may just wind up as a delayed COD, BF type of game with cute little zombies running around.  I certainly HOPE not. I like pretending I'm Darryl (Walking Dead) fighting for my right of existence. I will never turn into a homicidal maniac. Unless I meet you in game sometime parazight. Just having a little fun, sorry.

Edited August 6, 2014 by RAM-bo4250

[soulfirez 901]

No, I've considered what everyone else has said.  These 'multiple things' that aren't pvp have limited shelf-life.  And will only hold the attention of the consumer for so long.  All of the points that have been used against my 'warning' I've carefully considered.   I'm totally willing to change my beliefs but I haven't seen any arguments strong enough to refute my prediction.  I've also addressed the fact that it's incomplete. 

 

Believe me, nothing would make me happier than to have an mmo that provides an honest challenge beyond pvp.  It's never happened.  I've even set out the challenge to anyone to give a single example where single player mmo content is challenging.  So far, nothing.

 

I don't believe telling Rambo to say more than "No, it's not!" is too far out of line.

hmm lets just leave it at you think its just PvP shall we.

 

Oh but for your example how about dayz mod in i think it was may 2012 when they made zeds so fast and hard hitting that all the wimpy little bitches complained it was to tough to get started that even armed they were getting killed and the big one was they couldnt pvp because zeds kept killing them.

 

Sadly they slowed them down made them hit softer and the pvp fest continued lol why because to many people complained.....

[Parazight 1595]

Let me try again Parazight. You keep bringing up the fact that in your opinion the endgame will always be PVP.  In my opinion that isn't necessarily true. As Caboose has stated the survival aspect of the game isn't finished. Hell even PVP isn't finished. The beginning, the middle and endgame will always be to survive. Not JUST pvp, not JUST environment, not JUST zombies. The whole game will be a synergy between the three (or at least it should be) according to the founder of the game (hence the arrow pointing down to my signature). You will eventually run out of food, drink and medicine. That is if the devs don't make it crazy easy to get it in the first place. You will eventually run out of bullets or have your weapon deterioate. Again, if the devs don't make it crazy easy. Zombies will (or should if the devs .... you know the drill) be a problem to be reckoned with. PVP is and should be just one element of the tripod. If you are in a well populated area and you go on your killing spree you should be hounded by hordes of zombies. And then guess what. Even if you've survived your ammo will be depleted, your health will be depleted and so on. Now you're back to the beginning needing to gear up and replenish. Hence, survival is part of this so-called endgame of yours. And it all depends of course on the devs decision to stick with their vision as quoted in my signature.

 

By the way, Parazight, all this was brought up in this thread. Clear?

Absolutely clear.  I put out the warning that all of the things that you listed that don't involve PVP will be trivial.  Gearing up will always be a breeze.  Avoiding non-pvp deaths after you learn the hard lesson once will be easy.  Figuring out where to go to loot things: easy. (even for the new player, really! look at all the online sources!)  Fighting zombies: easy.  Hell, even look at current stable .47;  melee combat is totally broken.  Even while handicapped due to game mechanics, you can take on 6 zombies and not get a scratch, once you learn how to do it.

 

I've read the statement in your sig.  Multiple times.  I think it's silly.  It's a fine tag line to get people to buy the game but unrealistic in terms of describing the true nature of the game.  I've been playing videogames for almost 30 years and MMOs/FPS since the beginning.  Experience tells me that the pve in this game will be completely trivial.  "Survival" as a goal, as sold by the company, is way to vague to have any meaning whatsoever.  That's like saying the point of any game is to 'win'.  well, duh.

 

I don't get why people say that I'm not listening to their opinions.  I am.  Such is the nature of opinions, huh?  None of the opinions that I've heard compels me to change mine.  I'm not really trying to convince you to not play the game or that the game is bad or anything else.  Just because I don't agree with someone, doesn't mean I'm not listening to what they have to say.

[Rudette 435]

The endgame will always be about protecting/dieing to protect what you own and/or taking what you want/dieing in the process of taking what you want.

What is yours, what you own, and what others have will hopefully keep changing to give this competition some meaning.

Edited August 6, 2014 by Rudette

[Parazight 1595]

 

Oh but for your example how about dayz mod in i think it was may 2012 when they made zeds so fast and hard hitting that all the wimpy little bitches complained it was to tough to get started that even armed they were getting killed and the big one was they couldnt pvp because zeds kept killing them.

 

Sadly they slowed them down made them hit softer and the pvp fest continued lol why because to many people complained.....

Maybe that's part of the problem.  Maybe that's why I'm all for PVP.  In the end, when they have to balance gameplay, they will never make the zombies more threatening than other players.  How could they without making them way overpowered?  To the point where it's completely unrealistic (even for a made up thing like a zombie).   THAT is pve that would get me excited, but what are the chances of that in the final build?  Quite slim.