The ONLY Realistic Way to Prevent Deathmatching: Make DayZ a Living Hell

[Nexus545 13]

The only problem with making the game really hard is that when someone gets to the top they are going to make it impossible for others.

[wolfstriked 143]

Trust me,if your dripping liquids out your ass and run thru your water supply searching for antibiotics,then that is enhanced gameplay.If that green colored watering hole was the reason then that is emergent gameplay.If you get infection from getting shot and you need to limp to a nearby hospital then that is immersion etc etc.The more the merrier IMO.

That said I think ammo should only be slightly nerfed as that is where the fun stems from.;) Food on the other hand very rare and blood loss from starving/dehydration very slow.Then put blood regeneration from food at a slower rate and your struggling to survive.

[Experiment 0]

Exactly as Nexus put it. This helps early-game folk who are trying to start out and get stable, but when someone reaches late-game this *fix* makes everything worse for early-game players.

The people with the amazing late-game gear are usually in a clan or a group of friends. For my group this change would bring about no problems and would only screw over lone-wolf bandits (which should exist) and noobs.

[Zetal 90]

Exactly as Nexus put it. This helps early-game folk who are trying to start out and get stable, but when someone reaches late-game this *fix* makes everything worse for early-game players.

The people with the amazing late-game gear are usually in a clan or a group of friends. For my group this change would bring about no problems and would only screw over lone-wolf bandits (which should exist) and noobs.

You really think even a large group will waste their preciously earned 3 sniper bullets on beach newbies?

Weird. =P

[Madmoody 0]

Im afraid the others who suspect making the environment harsher will promote murders.

I propose this you murder you cannot loot if you started hostilities also, YOU SHOULD GLOW RED FOR 1 whole day like you have a Chemlight on you to alll players and zeds for no kidding like 10 hours of in game time logging out should not diminish this time.

I say this because there must be a penalty for murder that enacts instantly, also any who kill a glowing murderer can loot his stuff if non bandit.

Bandits murderers should be a target for both bandits and survivors.

I say this cause there is little thought on killing somone.I get shot in back so many times that I was not a threat period

.

Make them MARKED Bright glowing red visible for 500 mters for a long period of ingame time.this MIGHT make them think do i have to kill this player or can I just let him pass.In reality shooting a non infected that poses no threat should be a huge exposure risk noise and awaste of valuable recouse ammunition. the way it is now is its probly a gain. To murder snipe people who pose no threat with no harshe penalty diminishes the realism and coop gameplay both for bandits and survivors.

I belive it should be the bandits that should be afraid alone worried about traitors for no penalty killing them wheter you are one or not also thy have lootable loot non muderers should not be lootable.

These two things would force bandits murderers to play paranoid solo style scared to be seen scared to shoot non bandits.

Also the one kill grace needs to go MURDER IS MURDER 1 time or 50 times.

Reason normal experienced game play ghoes like this for many.

Spawn run find weapon anyting, work toward edge of large town, camp a spot wait for scavenger or other with large pack to attempt to get out of town shot him in the back VIOLA full gear ready to roll this is bulllshit and needs to stop

Hitting i in game should also show totals lifetime totals of players killed so the few core murders have something to brag about and we normal players can mark them for owerselves as untrustworthy so when this person is marked by myself he looks different to me Knave skin or something color anything we need tools and they need penalties.

Id start with non bandits loot is not lootable period ever and one kill of other player makes you bandit till you heal 12000 hp worth of non bandit blood.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Madmoody

[FaustianQ 8]

/snip suggestion for gamey aspects

Making people glow red for killing people + other assorted side effects is not only gamey but stupid. I don't need my immersion and gameplay ruined because I gun someone down in a panic.

As to the OP, good suggestions, you have my beans!

[Chedder 6]

Bandits dont kill people because they can survive alone. Bandits kill people because we just feel like it. we wanna piss people off and make somone have a bad day. Maybe we are assholes but what do u execpt from work bandit? I personally think ur suggestions will make bandits kill more people to try to survive but thats my opinion.

[ZomboWTF 527]

im all for this, dayZ needs to be a living hell

the most obvious part is the ridiculous zombies atm, they pose no threat at all once you know what they are able to do

[Black Dow 21]

To the OP: Just read this and love your ideas. I created a thread today that contained some similar ideas. The way I phrased it was this...

This game should be like Metro 2033 in that bullets are worth more than gold. Every time I pull the trigger, I should be weighing the cost of the bullet on the value of the target. As it stands, people have no reason to hold back because ammo is abundant and zombies are an inconvenience at worst.

I agree that making the game more difficult and zombies more of a challenge will encourage people to work together, and make banditry more a survival tactic than a form of griefing.

[Xist3nce 11]

To the OP: Just read this and love your ideas. I created a thread today that contained some similar ideas. The way I phrased it was this...

This game should be like Metro 2033 in that bullets are worth more than gold. Every time I pull the trigger, I should be weighing the cost of the bullet on the value of the target. As it stands, people have no reason to hold back because ammo is abundant and zombies are an inconvenience at worst.

I agree that making the game more difficult and zombies more of a challenge will encourage people to work together, and make banditry more a survival tactic than a form of griefing.

The zombies are pretty useless at the moment, they get in the way of a few things, but I've never been killed by a Zed without human intervention.

[ZomboWTF 527]

yes, zombies need to be dangerous, right now they are only annoying, just run far enough and you can find a building in which you can either DC or kill them all with an axe without danger

to make zombies a real threat, they should:

1)make zombies able to hit you while running

2)make zombies able to run indoors

since 2) is an arma engine issue, the first could be done i'm sure

[*Regulator* Curt 93]

Eh, the suggestions are nice, but there are serious an inescapable problems with the ideas. These are general responses to your overall ideas (though some I agree with, most I do not).

1. This will not certainly lower the rate of banditry/murdering -- theories don't always work in reality.

2. This could very well increase the rate of banditry (harder to survive might = killing people just in case they have something useful).

3. This hurts the solo players who are completely innocent in this debate. Even *if* this did help stop banditry, this would really hurt the ability for people to solo.

4. More Zeds on already slow servers probably makes it a bad idea.

Here are some counter suggestions, that are simpler, easier, and quite authentic:

1. Guns make more noise (both the noise stat, and the sound of the gun itself), making it easier for players to find where the shots are coming from and make it so zombies are drawn to you from even further away. Sniper rifles in particular, should draw zombies from *really really really* far away. This is not only realistic, this makes camping on some hill somewhere and shooting a *very* dangerous proposition, unless you're very far away from town. This will make it so if they shoot, they'll be in trouble, unless they're really far away, in which case it will be harder to hit.

2. When looting a freshly killed body, you get a blood skin on your clothes that is not removed until you get a new outfit. This would not punish killing in self defense, but this would make it so you'd want to avoid looting for a while.

3. After killing a player for the first time, you are given a shaky effect and slightly blurred vision. This is very realistic, you'd be panicked, shook up, and probably feeling sick at the idea that you just killed someone. (This one I'm not sure about, but it sounds nice)

4. Zombies should be fewer in number, but *far* more lethal and more difficult to escape. Zombies should hit for 2,000 - 3,000 blood minimum, with bleeding a certainty (like 100 per second, nothing horribly outrageous). Zombies should be tougher (except for headshot damage) to kill, 2 times or more (I mean come on... they're already dead, how's shooting them some more going to change anything?). Zombies should run much faster than they do now, making it so they can catch you pretty quick if you don't get to safety.

5. Ammo should be a good deal more scarce.

Overall, all of the above will have (I believe) the following effects:

- Slower, more careful gameplay. People will not simply run through town, go to the nearest building, and be fine. This will be a dangerous game, zombies will always be on your mind. Stronger zombies = more careful, less carefree gameplay.

- Servers will be less taxed due to lower amount of zombies.

- Zombies will return to being really scary. It used to be that zombies scared you due to appearance, sound, or fear of death. Now, zombies will terrify you (even experienced players) because you'll know just how insanely dangerous they are. You will *never* feel safe in town, you will always be on your toes. This will make the game a lot more fun for pretty much everyone (except those who manage to get caught).

- Less ammo, the further range of gun sounds, and the stronger zombies will make you much more picky with your battles. There will be a lot less killing for the lulz, killing will primarily be self defense or for loot -- good reasons.

- The less players are killed by bandits, the more the novelty of killing them will be preserved. Bandits may not like this on the surface... but it will return to the days when it gave them a rush, it was exciting, cool, fun -- it felt special.

- Game will be more well rounded -- players are still a huge threat, but zombies must always be taken into consideration. This will not longer just be PvE or PvP, it will be far more balanced.

- All of these effects are more authentic -- they add to the realistic feel without being too intrusive/annoying to deal with. The game won't become any more or less complicated.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Brad_B

[Gunnm 2]

Just less ammo available in the game will be a great deal.

1-2 clips per players would be a fair amount.

It will make sniper rifles only valuable for bandit, the number of bullets are not worth the pain to carry the rifle and the trouble to find ammo.

But if we make guns rarer, we'll need more close combat common weapon, crossbow, bow are common weapons. Bows is fairly easy to make as its arrows.

Make players more depenent of what they see that what the game give them for free.

At the moment, it's like a broken bending machine that never stop to give you things...

[Wulfsok 11]

Excellent topic. I recently posted about the strange deaths I've had (Being gear-less and invited to a group, to be shot for my flashlight), but didn't think to mention the lack of incentive to team up.

It would be a drag if the release was a deathmatch.

Don't forget radios! A way to bring survivors together, as well as bandits (heh).

[Wulfsok 11]

yes, zombies need to be dangerous, right now they are only annoying, just run far enough and you can find a building in which you can either DC or kill them all with an axe without danger

to make zombies a real threat, they should:

1)make zombies able to hit you while running

2)make zombies able to run indoors

since 2) is an arma engine issue, the first could be done i'm sure

The first one was an Arma 2 issue, it didn't have melee, the DayZ team had to program it in. Hence getting the zed to hit you while running may very well not be until the beta.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Wulfsok

[Spycrab 5]

I agree, dayZ should be made a nightmare.

Zombies should be faster, stronger, take a bigger beating and run inside. You'd have to aim for the head, or sneak past them. Not charge in using automatics.

A few weapons should be removed/made rare. Assault rifles would be rare, and if you find them, good look getting ammo. Rocket launchers and snipers would be taken by others, who have left the city long ago.

Citizen and handmade weapons would be the only wise choice for weapons. The machine pistol could still shine a light, however.

A broken bone? A splint could keep it working, not as good however.

Being hungry and thirsty would make you slower and weaker, and maybe fires would be scattered around.

That's how I think the game would be made harder, making deathmatch rarer, as good guns would be rare, and most ammo would be used up already.

[subvision 14]

I like some of the ideas, and some I like not. It's up to rocket to implement this or that. For example I like the idea of zombies wandering in the wilderness, but I don't like the idea of scratches leading to infection.

I think, even with all this roleplaying features, DayZ should be casual to some point and not a hardcore game only enjoyable for some freaks. We should not forget, that we are experienced in the game more or less. But what about the beginners? There should be a perfect balancing act between the features ingame and playability.

I agree that there should be communication in the game, so it's important to leave the chat on. I heard of some servers having the chat turned completely off. This is a no-go. And there should be more situations in which players have to interact with others. I agree on that. But it should not be too much features. DayZ should also be playable alone.

Too much features will not make the game better. Sometimes less is more.

Edited July 25, 2012 by subvision

[Bludy 324]

great

[S3V3N 1402]

I have an idea, which I have posted in this thread:

http://dayzmod.com/f...72-trade-zones/

The true reason why we wouldn't shoot anyone on sight in a comparable RL situation is that he/she may have information we require. A survior travelling through the wilderness for days would have seen and heard things I haven't, so I'd naturally be curious to hear about it. The benefit of killing him for some small loot is outweight by the chance of getting some important news. So, I would suggest to make INFORMATION somewhat like a currency in the game.

I don't need a map, I know the Arma map by heart. People, who don't have a map google for one. So give each player a map from the getgo, it doesn't spoil anything. Make it so that maps "die" with the player, so whatever info may be on them is lost when they die. Every player gets a map which has a few items of information on it from the start. It's either a great place to loot or has some warnings or a location for a car. This way players will possibly consider shooting another player, at least until they get the information from him or her. If the other player doesn't want to share info, they should just go their separate way (though, o.c. 90% of the players in this game will try to shoot you). There will be paranoia, but at least you have a chance to get away and the "duels" will be more of a standoff situation than one guy ambushing you from behind safe cover.

The only problem I see with this is that your map would disappear and be replaced with a different one, when you change the server. That is, because every server would have to keep track and mark specific items on the personal map you receive. Apart from that, I believe information might be one way to prevent pointless PvP or at least give it more spice. You could also consider making dead bodies unlootable, when someone shoots you in the back. I don't think it's fair what most people pull off, since clearly some are just camping and waiting to take a shot.

Edited July 25, 2012 by S3V3N

[subvision 14]

I don't need a map, I know the Arma map by heart. People, who don't have a map, google for one. So give each player a map from the getgo, it doesn't spoil anything. Make it so that maps "die" with the player, so whatever info may be on them is lost when they die. Every player gets a map which has one or two items of information on it from the start. It's either a great place to loot or has some warnings or a location for a car. This way players will possibly consider shooting another player, at least until they get the information from him or her. If the other player doesn't want to share info, they should just go their separate way (though, o.c. 90% of the players in this game will try to shoot you). There will be paranoia, but at least you have a chance to get away and the "duels" will be more of a standoff situation than one guy ambushing you from behind safe cover.

Aha. And what will prevent the other player to shoot you in the face when he has that information? Believe me, most players will disclaim and shoot you to loot your corpse. It would stay the same as it is now.

I don't see any good point in your suggestion, sorry, pal.

[S3V3N 1402]

Subvision - you didn't read my post, just the first paragraph, perhaps. Sorry you have a short attention span.

I said that it is most likely that it will come to standoff situations, but at least it means you will see someone face to face and have a chance of shooting them first. It also means cowards will be more likely injured than get away clean. It won't be like "wtf, I'm dead" half as often as it is now, because people will want something they can't loot of a dead body.

This thread is mostly about reducing items in the game (which I agree will only lead to more competition). I'm suggesting to add Information as a currency, which makes players think twice before shooting you right away. Even if a player gives you his information, you still won't know where it is. You will have to agree on exchanging information firstor working together to get to either of your marked ressources.

If you give a fuck and are just in for killing other players that will be unchanged. I'm just saying the rate of pointless killing might decrease if there is an incense to negotiate with other players.

Edited July 25, 2012 by S3V3N

[subvision 14]

Subvision - you didn't read my post, just the first paragraph, perhaps. Sorry you have a short attention span.

I have read your posting completely. My opinion stays the same. People will kill each other and disclaim the information. At last they can find it out themselves. And lets go to the case 2 players are sharing information and work together to reach the goal marked in the map. At the latest here will player b kill player a, cos he is not needed anymore.

Information as a currency is a feature that won't work, I think.

Edited July 25, 2012 by subvision

[NightRipper 284]

I like the OPs idea of making more actions require another player to perform, a la bloodbags. Simply making loot rarer is counterproductive, however. It'll just give people more incentive to shoot you on the coast for your bandage and painkillers.

[S3V3N 1402]

And lets go to the case 2 players are sharing information and work together to reach the goal marked in the map. At the latest here will player b kill player a, cos he is not needed anymore.

That is the only thing I have been wondering about. If there is, for example, an M24 marked as information, naturally the players will fight for it, once they reach the goal. However, it might also happen that they find out the other guy may not be so bad while they are travelling together. Maybe the guy with the info will give up the weapon, because he is not a good sniper or because the other player offers him to take his rifle. As long as the trade made is superior to what they both started with, I believe there is a high chance people will find an agreement.

Also - if one kills the other, they only get half the loot. It could be places that are really hard to loot alone, so when the other decides to kill his travel-mate, he will just make it harder on himself to find the next spot marked on the map.

I also believe the Information should be random, so not everybody gets 1 item, but some get several and others get none at all (marked on their map). Perhaps people who have three items on their map will try to find someone to help, because they know they will need a transfusion/revive at some point. Or they will want to repair a car and can't carry all the parts alone. Perhaps they will go off alone. At least you will never know the information, before you actually tried to get in touch with another player.

I'd also like to know what the radius of the Direct Chat option is. Perhaps if it were doubled, or made to work, as soon as you are in visual range of another player, talking could become a little easier without exposing yourself right away.

I'm sorry about the "short attention span", but it seemed to me you didn't read the entire post, since I explicitly wrote about the chance for PvP after negotiations fail.

Edited July 25, 2012 by S3V3N

[FaustianQ 8]

The only issue with the information system is you are tying it to the map, not the person. Simple have the information known only to the player, a la memory. If you kill a player, you simply don't get the info. Further, the loot associated with the info only spawns in when someone who has it in thier memory is within range, which further prevents people randomly happening upon it.

Killing a person basically means the loot is never found - no one gets anything, the entire opportunity is lost. And it shouldn't be just standard loot, but truly rare stuff.

The potential for betrayal upon finding it? Perfectly fine, it's in the spirit of the game, and may make the whole game that much more tense during your trip with your new "friend". But the setup and the idea mean that it's a calculated risk that reduces KoS. It won't stop thrill killers, literally nothing will but serious organization on the part of players, but at the very least the real bandits will wait long enough to get your rare loot.

Edited July 25, 2012 by FaustianQ