The ONLY Realistic Way to Prevent Deathmatching: Make DayZ a Living Hell

[Cinc 3]

If you walked up to me like that saying you were a mutant, and in general acting very strange, I would most likely kill you as well.

same.

[Zarter 0]

This could really go both ways. It will make supplies more valuable so killing a player to get his will be easier than going and finding my own stuff. Sure finding a gun will be hard but don't you think that it will make every player want each other stuff more? I already want peoples stuff that's why i kill and if this happens then I will want to kill more. Why should I get the stuff when i can have other do that for me?

[Xist3nce 11]

Relevant to the thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnZgy28rmnQ&feature=plcp

These people had NO reason not to kill me.

They were all terrible and I had the drop on them all. I was friendly for the sake of it and was always lower on gear than them, and yet they killed me...well except for the guy with the axe, he had an excuse.

I make it a point not to drop anyone that hasn't taken a shot or a swing. Even if he's spouting britishy (now a word) Gibberish. Especially not snort XD been a sub for a bit, I'd be more like O.O wanna go has an adventures? XD (the grammar is how I want it there)

[Madmoody 0]

Okay true ill give gamey fine but some attempt like loot tiers is needed

The problem is not the pvp or the hunting of a person the problem is players choosing a different playstyle should not be free collection sites and I think having some sort of penalty that actually puts your life at risk for turning your back on humanity would be immersive.

Want to have player targets to shoot mindlessly there are litterally a dozen or more games where that is the true object for all players.To not attempt to preserve the tense player to player relationship envelope large should be a huge goal.

Ultimate goal of a bandit should be to extort using fear moderate force the hard labors or more meek or people who choose a passive pvp role to havbe them sort of support them nothing iteresting like that is promoted the way it is now why deal kill and take.

I hope I dont sound like cryer I die so what. What sucks is the so few chances to have epic happenings randomly with unkowns solo does not exist the fights are over before the enemy is determined thats hardly fun as hunter or prey.

[Beanz (DayZ) 0]

Honestly I don't think OP's ideas will help however I agree on more zombies or maybe more zombie spawn for those High-end gear douches that only kill noobs for fun. Make them feel the pressure of survival that noobs do -- but leave the banditry/teamwork for us to decide.

[Remscar 5]

I like this.

However, if you make the game harder, then there is even more of an incentive to kill people for their hard earned gear...

[Gaidoon 19]

Wow i never thought this thread would become more popular then the sexual anxiety thread we need more threads like this one.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Gaidoon

[necroslord 73]

like most of these ideas. Enforcing cooperation seems good for the game. But I will leave a quote here........

"At the end of the day, as long as there are two people left on the planet... someone is gonna want someone dead."

That is human nature.

Edited July 28, 2012 by necroslord

[ivan keska 39]

Relevant to the thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnZgy28rmnQ&feature=plcp

These people had NO reason not to kill me.

They were all terrible and I had the drop on them all. I was friendly for the sake of it and was always lower on gear than them, and yet they killed me...well except for the guy with the axe, he had an excuse.

Similar experiences with people, I've saved people given away free gear and more only to get killed. Granted I've ran into some who are good people but in general my experience with people hasn't been good, which is sad since these things remind me of cod which is one of the most boring games I've ever played.

[Powell (DayZ) 734]

The debug monitor is pointless. You don't need to track zombies killed, headshots, murders, or bandits killed. There is also no need to know how many zombies are on a server. Stats have no place in a zombie survival mil sim...there would be no real way for you to know these things in RL. You want stats, go play COD or BF.

As for blood and temp numbers, you can just place the numbers inside the existing icons for blood and temp.

There is no reason to have servers with varying levels of difficulty. NO server should have 3P or crosshairs enabled, and they should all have the same difficulty. There is no reason someone should be able to farm equipment on easy servers...everyone should get the same experience.

And I'm not for removing sniper weapons. It is pretty realistic to find a scoped hunting rifle in a civilian location. What is unrealistic is seeing tons of people running around with NVGs and M107s or AS50s. I would accept the occasional M16 found on a dead soldier or something, but they should be so rare finding one should be a life-altering experience...

Again, I am all for PvP and I am all for banditry. But they should exist for a reason...survival. Popping the heads of unarmed and newly spawned players using your AS50 just to watch your "murder" number tick up is not survival.

I've thought that many times. I think the debug monitor should be scraped

[Auraka 0]

I really like these ideas. I do think it will drive a lot of people away from it being "too difficult" and they'll say it's not a game anymore but that'll weed out the population and leave the people who really do love and enjoy this game to enjoy it to it's fullest extent. I think these ideas could also be expanded on and made more complex or in some cases maybe even simplified but in short, I'd like to see a lot of these implemented.

[captainwaffles 41]

I have to admit that your not saying it directly but you might as well say you dont want PvP rocket said just stop whining if there are alot of bandits live with it

[Powell (DayZ) 734]

I have to admit that your not saying it directly but you might as well say you dont want PvP rocket said just stop whining if there are alot of bandits live with it

...read the thread damnit. He literally says at the very beginning that that is the opposite of what he wants

[morten.t.beck@gmail.com 1]

Great ideas all. Love them. Except for one thing... Your suggestions does not inspire teamwork, they enforce it.

In a theorized post-apocalyptic world, there should be strength in numbers (as there is right now), but one strong individual should also be able to stand out. Be it with an understanding of gameplay mechanics or having superior gear.

The sharing of food, and limiting of tools, is cool. However, this is also about realism, and I consider maps, compass, watch, matches and knife to be essential, and you should not have to choose between a fire axe and a box of matches, as the encumbrance for each of those is not remotely comparable.

Reality is that every, reasonably fit, human being here is easily capable of carrying the tools necessary for navigating, time keeping, hunting, gutting, creating a fire, and some lightweight bivouac equipment on their own person without being close to be encumbered, should not be overlooked in this discussion. That paints a picture of being equipped for survival. I'd even throw in a kabar machete just for the cool (and practical) factor. It's much lighter than a fire axe.

I wouldn't trust a stranger in a world as DayZ... Would you? The only thing that would make me believe that someone had genuine friendly intentions is if I was bleeding to death, knocked out and in deep sh-trouble, and he bandaged, transfused and helped me out rather than take my beans. I don't believe a word anyone would say, as all people are ultimately out for themselves.

Rather than seeing cooperative play enforced by being unable to survive on your own (and maintain a healthy virtual body), it would be better to entice with rewards, and I have no idea how. So really I'm just being mr. pessimist and racking on your good, well-conceived ideas.

Also people shouldn't get sick from being chilly for one night or in the rain for a day, as the reason why we humans tend to get sick in winter, is not because of the temperature drop outdoors, but because we stay indoors, in closed air systems for longer times with more people, increasing infection risk.

Edited July 29, 2012 by HikerRemastered

[ZombifiedShark 8]

I think third person should stay because in real life you have a general awareness of your body even if you aren't looking at it.

[MinxinG 50]

Just implement all these suggestions and DayZ will definetely be the best game that I've played so far.

[MinxinG 50]

Great ideas all. Love them. Except for one thing... Your suggestions does not inspire teamwork, they enforce it.

In a theorized post-apocalyptic world, there should be strength in numbers (as there is right now), but one strong individual should also be able to stand out. Be it with an understanding of gameplay mechanics or having superior gear.

The sharing of food, and limiting of tools, is cool. However, this is also about realism, and I consider maps, compass, watch, matches and knife to be essential, and you should not have to choose between a fire axe and a box of matches, as the encumbrance for each of those is not remotely comparable.

Reality is that every, reasonably fit, human being here is easily capable of carrying the tools necessary for navigating, time keeping, hunting, gutting, creating a fire, and some lightweight bivouac equipment on their own person without being close to be encumbered, should not be overlooked in this discussion. That paints a picture of being equipped for survival. I'd even throw in a kabar machete just for the cool (and practical) factor. It's much lighter than a fire axe.

I wouldn't trust a stranger in a world as DayZ... Would you? The only thing that would make me believe that someone had genuine friendly intentions is if I was bleeding to death, knocked out and in deep sh-trouble, and he bandaged, transfused and helped me out rather than take my beans. I don't believe a word anyone would say, as all people are ultimately out for themselves.

Rather than seeing cooperative play enforced by being unable to survive on your own (and maintain a healthy virtual body), it would be better to entice with rewards, and I have no idea how. So really I'm just being mr. pessimist and racking on your good, well-conceived ideas.

Also people shouldn't get sick from being chilly for one night or in the rain for a day, as the reason why we humans tend to get sick in winter, is not because of the temperature drop outdoors, but because we stay indoors, in closed air systems for longer times with more people, increasing infection risk.

In a apocalyptic world, trust me, you WOULD/WILL try to be together with somebody that you just met if you are alone, thats human nature, humans cant keep sanity without collapsing if there isnt anyone besides him.

We will keep together in a apocalyptic world, and you know that, "In Real Life" (people love to mention it here) you would be so desperate for help that you wouldnt even see if they have a friendly aspect, you would just stick with somebody. Of course that you would be "a step backwards" than him, but man, its another human being that somehow survived, and it might be the only one that is alive.

[Radlemus 0]

Maybe... it's the kind of players that play arma 2 that is the factor that's overlooked. Maybe a large group of us simply want to relive stress by killing others. The time to get food and gear just adds to the sadistic pleasure of shooting someone in the head later knowing they will need to do the same all over again, thinking that having the ability to kill is the same as the right to kill.

I also think that how people perceive this game may not be the same. I picked up DayZ out of my love for Fallout and Stalker, games I modded heavily to effect difficulty and rarity of gear. Fully expecting to walk in to a hellish, starving world in DayZ. I put hundreds of hours on to fallout and stalker and enjoyed it to death. But I am picking up that a large group of players here just want to spend a few hours, trying to get better gear and shooting people for the lulz.

I'm not trying to be rude to more hardcore Arma players and I understand that dayZ is its own thing and not those other games. I am also not saying that I think the game would be better without pvp or that forcing co-op is the way to go.

I am saying that this game may have different sides that pulled players in. But as the game goes on we need to recognize those other aspects and expand on it.

I was drawn in for the hellish world that was out of food, had little left to offer humanity to get on its feet. I came to help rebuild society and aid those in need, scout out burned out cities and fight of swarms that attacks.

I think the Bandits have everything they need. food, NVG, super weapons that can see heat and take you out from a mile away... Why would I not play a bandit type?

A friend of mine was pushing me to pick up Orcs must die 2, I was pushing for him to pick up DayZ! I told him some of my stories of running out of food and looking for gear, running away from zombies. He thought it sounded really great but when asked, what was the goal? All I could say was "um... not get shot or eatten"

-my main point -> Where are the rebuilders tools? Why can't we clean the streets? Why can't I get the power working some place? Why can't I fix the plumbing or set up solar power? Hell, if I need to start it out alone. I will... I'll start cleaning one road at a time, start moving all the broken cars out part by part. If bandits want to kill me, that's cool... but I think down the road someone may want to help. I think society might start to rebuild and get working. And of course, the more power we turn on the power or rebuild the more zombies will be drawn to it. Giving us, the rebuilders something to do other than just wait for bandits to get there shit together and come attack.

-Removing the ability to jump from server to server would also help, the actions to take on one server are kind of long lasting, What you find matters. Just walking in to this new cleaned up city, taking things and logging out will not help you or me.

-Having classes MIGHT help. Mechanic, cook, soldier, ect. Sure you and your buddies might have all you need in your tight little friends group, no need for other people. But maybe building cars or fixing a gun would go faster or take less parts if you work with others. And ... if it takes two other classes to make a soldier work at perfection they might get real board and want to work on things they can do. MIGHT slow down the gut reaction of just building a group to kill people off.

-Rebuilding tools and the need for them. They make your life easier, make healing, fixing or rebuilding MUCH faster. Maybe even having social/culture saves your "humanity" level and stops you from hearing voices or seeing shit... I don't know... just thoughts.

Summation - Ya, we got it, you're going to be a bandit for life and no one is going to change that. No one was asking you to in the first place (When the game gets more stable I might even try and play as a slaver >:D ... to fallout? sorry :\). I think what the co-op people are really asking for or maybe just point out is that all the tools to be a bandit are already in game. But now the co-op players want the tools, functions and incentive to play as a group. All given to us without stepping on the toes of those who only have an hour or two to play or don't have the mental capacity to get past pulling wings off flies for fun.

Lets concede that there is more than one reason to play DayZ but the avenues to follow those reasons are not yet in place and have not been fully explored. Lets push the creators to look at those avenues.

[necroslord 73]

In a apocalyptic world, trust me, you WOULD/WILL try to be together with somebody that you just met if you are alone, thats human nature, humans cant keep sanity without collapsing if there isnt anyone besides him.

We will keep together in a apocalyptic world, and you know that, "In Real Life" (people love to mention it here) you would be so desperate for help that you wouldnt even see if they have a friendly aspect, you would just stick with somebody. Of course that you would be "a step backwards" than him, but man, its another human being that somehow survived, and it might be the only one that is alive.

But that only applies to us, normal people. Not for the badass gunslingers, bringers of mercy and deliverance from hell, whose only friend is their rifle and the whispers of the wind softly caressing his shoulders whle chilling the bones of the weaker ones. The weaker ones whose lives are about to fade with the loud and cold touch of lead, carrying just the peace...... of death.

Edited July 30, 2012 by necroslord

[necroslord 73]

// Sorry, damn I mssclicked "quote" instead of "edit", and double posted //

Edited July 30, 2012 by necroslord

[hardcoreymp 16]

What should happen is that people who die from being killed by zombies, drop there loot and backpack, turn into zombies. This would increase the amount of zombies. But it would not stop people shooting each other. Remember there should be a balance between fun and realism. People still want to be able to enjoy the game without making it a task to play.

[Dimes123 60]

HIRE THIS MAN

EDIT: bring back the HORROR in SURVIVAL HORROR

Edited July 30, 2012 by Dimes123

[MinxinG 50]

But that only applies to us, normal people. Not for the badass gunslingers, bringers of mercy and deliverance from hell, whose only friend is their rifle and the whispers of the wind softly caressing his shoulders whle chilling the bones of the weaker ones. The weaker ones whose lives are about to fade with the loud and cold touch of lead, carrying just the peace...... of death.

Poetic, got to say, but you would stick with them wouldnt you? You dont know if they are insane persons, but you wouldnt think twice to give it a try...

Thats what surviving is about.

Edited July 30, 2012 by MinxinG

[Skurkanas 27]

In a apocalyptic world, trust me, you WOULD/WILL try to be together with somebody that you just met if you are alone, thats human nature, humans cant keep sanity without collapsing if there isnt anyone besides him.

We will keep together in a apocalyptic world, and you know that, "In Real Life" (people love to mention it here) you would be so desperate for help that you wouldnt even see if they have a friendly aspect, you would just stick with somebody. Of course that you would be "a step backwards" than him, but man, its another human being that somehow survived, and it might be the only one that is alive.

It's funny how people assume that it's "human nature" to band together.

Ever read some serious literature on the topic? Because it's most definitely not.

Humans stick together with family members, e.g. people they know and trust. Strangers they KOS, just like it is here. This is a known observation with tribal people all around the world.

The only thing separating us from them is an elaborated set of moral and judical laws, that punish this sort of behaviour. Take it away with a zombie apocalypse, and it's dog eat dog again.

It is for this reason that people only team up with people they know, e.g. real life friends, and it is for this reason that the OP's ideas only work in theory.

You can't enforce teamplay and you can't enforce trust, especially not if you make people even more desperate.

As the second reason for our current, mostly non violent behaviour towards each other besides laws, is abundancy. Take that away and the common enemy (zombies) is overruled by competition for food.

The OPs idea will simply turn this into a team-deathmatch, rather than a simple deathmatch. Once I have my established group, I have no reason to be friendly towards strangers. Either I can take their stuff, or I can make sure they are incapable of taking mine. Sure, there is the off chance they might be friendly, but it's an unecessary gamble to find out. That's just the reality of the situation, and it's pretty much how a (prolongued) apocalypse would turn out.

But still, is there a way to turn this into a more rewarding experience for those of us who want to rebuild humanity? Probably.

There need to be ways to guarantee for the two aforementioned pillars of society - laws and abundancy.

1. Laws

For obvious reasons, those will have to be basic. E.g. "don't kill unarmed people" and fallible ("He killed me!" "No I didn't!")

Still, if there were such basic laws agreed on by the majority and - most importantly - means to enforce them, going rogue could bite you in the ass for a LONG time.

So how to enforce them?

One way, would be characters bound to servers. If you kill someone and take his stuff, you can't just switch to "another world" and expect no consequences. He will hunt you down.

And maybe the whole servers "society" will be on your tracks as well. This would be far more realistic and player driven than any arbitrary red glow for bandits. Of course it would require big and stable servers, so I don't see it happening before beta.

An easier way to implement it might be more server bound stuff. People would still be able to switch servers, but they might not want to, because it would mean to leave a lot behind. Which leads us to point...

2. Abundancy

Basically, the number of stuff you get should raise exponentially with the number of people you manage to unite.

Give us means to establish permanent settlements or fortifications, thereby providing a drop off point for gathered loot.

Foragers could go out hunting, snipers could protect the place, builders could reinforce it and all of that should be easier, the more people there are.

Granted, the inhabitants of such a village will still be wary of outsiders, but an additional pair of hands will be useful to them. Similarly, the outsider could kill the inhabitants and run away, but he won't be able to carry all their stuff by himself, and - see point 1. - he will have a LOT of trouble on his heels

Now I know that both points require rather big changes to gameplay, but I think they are the only way to implement lasting motivation and incentive to team up.

And after all this is alpha, so if there's any time to make big changes, it is now ;)

I hope some of you will take the time to read this wall of text and tell me what you think

Edited July 30, 2012 by Skurkanas

[Cyclonis 22]

How does me teaming up with my psychotic bandit buddy and killing everyone anyway work into this grand plan?