The ONLY Realistic Way to Prevent Deathmatching: Make DayZ a Living Hell

[MarcusB 0]

This is false

 

If you look at Epoch mod of DayZ then you see many people spend most of the time gathering resources to build bases

and such then hunting for players. Currently DayZ [sA] is more PvP heavy cause there isnt els to do when your geared up.

yeah but the KoS mentality is the same, I noticed afew servers however that would kick you out if you killed someone.. :( alot of the same will come from DayZ standalone once there is Base building I will do that, but if I run into people while im out gathering supplies my focus will change temporarily for pvp 

[JuX 72]

Frankly the kill on sight mentality is a bit blown out of proportion cause many do not know the otherside of the story.

many times i have been scoping out people and let them live without them knowing i was watching them and could have eliminated

them at any given moment. They simply do not know such event had taken place, cause they didnt know i was there.

 

Its impossible to say how many times this occurs ingame, but people do know when KoS had taken place.

 

Also some KoS events arent either sides fault cause when you are spooked by unexpected player, then you're first response

is to shoot them cause there isnt time for diplomacy and not taking the risk of finding out if friendly or not.

[MarcusB 0]

I always seem to see this idea popping up in games with some kind of heavy loss to PvP death...

Adding something like this would, in my opinion, go completely against the theme the game is built around. You're literally bearing your throat to another person if you choose to trust them in DayZ. That's how it should be; you're in a post-apocalyptic wasteland where resources are at a premium, blood is a luxury and your character's life is worth about as much as the goods you choose to adorn it with.

I agree with you 100%, But at the same time as the game is right now, your either one of two types of players,

1. a Player like me that takes game seriously doesn't like to die/lose and as such never takes chances when they can be avoided. so in other words people that KoS because you can never know who you can trust or who you can't.

2. someone who is a little less serious about the PvP aspect of the game and wants to team up with other people and have some social interaction, team work, trading etc, these people are all the same because this isn't a valid way of playing the game at all.. people start out like this (I did even) but after x amount of people telling you there friendly and then shooting you, or giving your self away to ask if someone is friendly before and dying, you eventually stop even trying to have interactions of this sort..  

 

both types of game play should be viable, and the second type isn't viable, sure people do still try and from time to time they may even have some luck but mostly they just end up dead.

a lot of people propose methods of penalty to players that play the first type, the KoS, the Bandit threw Humanity systems etc, this is why I have a direct interest in how this plays out as I don't feel that

forcing people into a rule set that outright penalizes the bandit to make the social/team  player more viable is the right way to fix KoS and add team work. 

the problem isn't that people KoS, it's why people KoS. people KoS because they are a Bandit or they simply just can't trust other people. 

so to fix that problem would be the first thing you have to do, to add a social aspect to the game and make it more viable for team work, trade etc.

 

making archetypes you choose at the start what you play, the bandit or the Scavenger, Scavengers will be able to safely interact with one another while still being able to be killed by Bandits on sight, Bandits don't get any

kind of penalty for KoS of there own kind or the scavenger. but the scavenger gets that easy social aspect (if they run into another scavenger) where they can freely chat/trade and team up with other scavengers with out having to worry about them killing them when they turn there back, so playing the bandit you won't have that not even with other bandits it's a natural way to make the social aspect a little more appealing while at the same time not penalizing the Bandit or solo experience for any player.

 

You still have to worry about who you run into in the game as lets say that guy who just ran into that barracks might be friendly or might be a bandit.

friendly people would band together in a real apoc and there would be a degree of real safety , while bandits might work together in the same sense but you could never be sure if they might shoot you one day or not.

 

this balances the game for every type of player, from your solo guy running around killing everyone doing his own thing.. to your group of friendly survivors trying to band together and not be killed by those KoS bandits.

to your loan solo scavenger guy that doesn't want to play with other people but still might want the opportunity to do some trading with another friendly if they happen across one from time to time. to your devious scavenger spy that's working with a group of bandits to find the bases and kill groups of scavengers etc.. lots of interactions can come from this and it doesn't compromise the games core values by putting bandits at a disadvantage threw harsh penalties 

 

and most importantly the player still has the choice every time they start a new character, some times you might decide to play the bandit others you might want to play the scavenger.. 

 

I think any system put in place should have these core things to work..

first bandits should never be penalized for KoS or killing of any sort. 

second friendly social players need a trust system in place a way to know with out doubt that the person there interacting with is friendly or not. ( or else there will never be any real social interaction in dayz )

 

if you can come up with a solution that can accomplish these two things together then you got your fix. everything else like Humanity systems etc are at there core forcing players to not be able to play a certain way.

if the difficulty is raised then your forced to play with other people which kills the solo game, if the humanity system added, your shiting on the bandits, leave it the way it is your putting people who want social trade aspects in the game under the bus.

 

cheers

 

also I wouldn't want a system like this if I couldnt change my mind and switch from say a scavenger to a bandit in the game or visa versa although it shouldn't be an instant change should take some time something like a couple hours..

 

 

whatever is done please don't add penalty for KoS that would be a tragedy any sort of penalty for killing is not right in this game. 

[Wolfguarde 108]

I can't see archetypal roles working in a game like this. The developers are striving for realism, and from what I've seen, steering well away from predetermined roles or incentives toward one or the other play style.

The second style of play is viable if you scout out a server and find a few decent people first. You're going to waste a few lives doing this. It runs on the basic principle that if someone is going to kill you for your stuff, they will do it pretty early on regardless of how much you have. You can afford to be friendly if you have a couple of other players you've recruited and found trustworthy watching your back - if the player you're trying to help decides to turn on you, your teammates can put them down and reclaim your gear for you. In my experience, it doesn't take too long to find players you can play the game with, or for someone to decide they've had enough of playing along and trying to kill you. Allow for a few days starting on a server to recruit a group, get them on steam/TS/whatever communication platform you prefer, and stick with them. Strength in numbers.

Friendly play suffers in this game because it is realistic - which is to say, the only elements that discourage you from playing bandit are ethical values. I don't see anything wrong with this.So long as you aren't overly attached to your first few sets of gear, it's not a great deal of effort to find like-minded people to run with.

[MarcusB 0]

I can't see archetypal roles working in a game like this. The developers are striving for realism, and from what I've seen, steering well away from predetermined roles or incentives toward one or the other play style.

The second style of play is viable if you scout out a server and find a few decent people first. You're going to waste a few lives doing this. It runs on the basic principle that if someone is going to kill you for your stuff, they will do it pretty early on regardless of how much you have. You can afford to be friendly if you have a couple of other players you've recruited and found trustworthy watching your back - if the player you're trying to help decides to turn on you, your teammates can put them down and reclaim your gear for you. In my experience, it doesn't take too long to find players you can play the game with, or for someone to decide they've had enough of playing along and trying to kill you. Allow for a few days starting on a server to recruit a group, get them on steam/TS/whatever communication platform you prefer, and stick with them. Strength in numbers.

Friendly play suffers in this game because it is realistic - which is to say, the only elements that discourage you from playing bandit are ethical values. I don't see anything wrong with this.So long as you aren't overly attached to your first few sets of gear, it's not a great deal of effort to find like-minded people to run with.

probably mostly true, but that won't stop a new humanity system from being put in place, rocket already said something needs to be done. I'd rather have a role defined as my choice then get large penalty for KoS and banditry.  If I thought nothing would be done I am fine with the game how it is right now. I just don't want to lose the option to play balls deep solo pvp because they add penalty for playing KoS.  Honestly I'd rather not play with anyone as I do now, don't much care for dying over and over to find a friend and I definitely don't see any realism in "If I die my friends put my killer down and hold on to my gear until I make the run back" yeah, that's not my game. I don't care about gear as I know where it spawns and don't mind running around and grabbing what I need (that's some of the fun of playing) I don't like to die though as I feel like I lost. But I don't take it to heart, normally I laugh say GG and make another character. I have a 70+ hour char now on SA so I'm reasonably successful playing solo. I PvP as much as I can and I like the game that way. 

[IJx 1]

There's a really simple solution: Add consequences. Would someone really fire an firearm at another player for the sheer fun of it, knowing that once he does so, every single rotting crawler within 200 squaremeter radius turns to walk / run towards the location of the gun shot? Zombies should be more attracted to noise, especially that of gunfire. Not to mention those corpses should be more of a threat, you can simply solo an entire town of zombies just by sneaking behind them and hitting them to the head. 

[Wolfguarde 108]

I didn't know they'd mentioned a mechanic of some sort to address the issue... I haven't been keeping up with the news/announcements for the standalone. Unless they've said otherwise, though, I can't see a humanity system being the solution - too easy to cheat/exploit if you've got a couple of friends and at least one person on the other side of the karmic scale to farm with.

Just out of curiosity, is there an existing version of the mod that makes use of the kinds of roles you're referring to?

IJx, I've seen a few people asking for a larger dinner bell range, and my guess is it will make it into the game. I don't think it will discourage chronic bandits though. It just adds to the havoc if they can get their positioning right. Hell, I know I'd probably have more fun firing off a Lee Enfield when I know someone's camping in a building, then legging it off to somewhere safe and watching the zombies pile into the building than actually shooting them.

Edited January 1, 2014 by Wolfguarde

[doomdesire86 16]

If I were a bandit and food was scarce I would kill other people and get double the food.

 

If I were a bandit and my friend needed help walking I would shoot him and take his stuff, leaving him to perish to the zombies. He would just slow me down anyways.

 

If I were a bandit, I would kill the guy with matches, take the rest of his stuff and keep both the hatchet and the axes.

 

 

I'm not saying that your cause isn't noble, but implementing these things aren't going to work, if anything it's going to make it worse.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Making the game harder does not mean that people will work together. It just means that everyone will kill others even more in order to survive on their own.

[lipemr 160]

Making the game harder does not mean that people will work together. It just means that everyone will kill others even more in order to survive on their own.

 

why would you kill someone when you two could make both you lives easier?

 

This idea that you NEED to kill other people just to survive is naive as hell man...

[lipemr 160]

If I were a bandit and food was scarce I would kill other people and get double the food.

 

If I were a bandit and my friend needed help walking I would shoot him and take his stuff, leaving him to perish to the zombies. He would just slow me down anyways.

 

If I were a bandit, I would kill the guy with matches, take the rest of his stuff and keep both the hatchet and the axes.

 

 

I'm not saying that your cause isn't noble, but implementing these things aren't going to work, if anything it's going to make it worse.

 

then die surrounded by zombies that got attracted by your gunshot. Good luck with that.

[landon9560 1]

I completly agree, especialy about the idea of the ''plague'' in cities. Going in capitals for easy loot should be a nightmare. North west airfield should be a joke compared to cherno, electro ane berezino.

Corpes should be all over the place. Coastal main cities should be covered in fog and toxic vapors. Every cut and wounds in a city would almost certainly mean infection.

Maybe DAYZ could leave the zombies alone and perhaps use another kind of monster. Maybe surnatural monsters. Perhaps monsters inspired from series like silent hill? Hard to kill with many tricks to kill you. Some fast, some slow, some very though, some with insane attack abilities, some with range attack.

silent hill monsters; http://characters.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Silent_Hill_monsters

Perhaps monster inspired from exmortis? http://exmortis.wikia.com/wiki/Cult_Of_Exmortis

Maybe some kind of monsters inspired from ''the mist'' of stephen king. http://aliens.wikia.com/wiki/Creatures_of_the_Mist

Thing is, and this is the most important part of my post so take note, it really doesn't matter what kind of monster rocket use as his main threat in the game, zombies or anything else. What matters is how chalenging they are and how much fear they inspire.

Zombies are overused anyway.

PS; The survivality of the game would stay the same, only the monster would be different and how we approach them.

 

You have my beans just for knowing about the mist by stephen king :P

[landon9560 1]

disagree.

The mod itself is more about getting gear than anything else. There are really only 2 things to do in the game. Get more gear, or kill players.

What happens when you have the best gear? you can only kill players. If you need gear there is also no reason to not kill that other person.

Make another objective or a reason to play beside killing players and getting gear and not only will there be more to do, but also less player killing as your time and resources will be then spent on the new task.

making the game have even scarcer materials will actually make player killing more prevalent as your gonna NEED that guys gear.

 

Well when the settlement stuff and cars are implemented (settlement idk about really just heard about) you can try to make a sprawling little village somewhere, or as me and a friend did on a server in the mod collect as many vehicles as possible, i mean we collected like 10 or more (long time ago i dont remember exactly) i mean we had gotten a bus the hippy van an escalade some cars and even got the big cargo van.

[Wolfguarde 108]

why would you kill someone when you two could make both you lives easier?

 

This idea that you NEED to kill other people just to survive is naive as hell man...

The idea that other people WON'T kill you for your shit, rather than scrounging for their own and wasting time they could invest in other pursuits, is naive. An expectation that simply cannot and does not hold up ingame - in a place where there are no true repercussions for your actions, usually referred to as the internet.

Or a post-apocalyptic earth, to a lesser degree.

The idea that you need to kill others to survive is laziness at its finest. People will do it if they can get away with it because it means they don't need to invest as much effort in gearing up, and therefore can put it elsewhere - like in PvPing, or just killing non-competitives/new spawns for fun. The vast majority of people do not enjoy being undersupplied and will do anything they can to cut down on the grind involved in keeping their character healthy and hale. Interacting with other players in a non-hostile manner involves risk, the negative result of which is the loss of their stuff, and therefore more work. Shooting - particularly shooting other armed players - involves risk, but on a much more acceptable level, as one is not sacrificing their ability to defend themselves.

Edit: And yes, that is a not-so-subtle implication that the internet is a worse cesspit of amoral and unethical behaviour than any post-apocalyptic scenario could be.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Wolfguarde

[Inception. 9443]

Keep in mind, ladies and gentlemen, that this topic was created one and a half years ago - things have changed since then.

[TheCreeper (DayZ) 3565]

Keep in mind, ladies and gentlemen, that this topic was created one and a half years ago - things have changed since then.

 

 

Come on Ceppy, just be glad he used the search function!

[GOD™ 2795]

he used the search function!

 

Truly amazing.

 

 

Anyhoo, surprised this is still here and not yarded for revival.

 

It's a good thread.  :rolleyes: