FaustianQ

And thus you impose tyranny on less organized players who now have amuch harder time aquiring gear vs roaming groups, and people become more paraniod about protecting thier weapons - scarity will only worsen KoS. Supply is not the issue, basic risk v reward and the ability to guage and trust the intentions of another player is.

I'm sorry if metagaming for a superior experience is something you can't comprehend, nor why thousands of other groups do so. I also never complained about KoS, I'm literally stating facts, don't be dense. Isolation is basically the pubbie way of playing the game, I almost exclusive run with squads and it's the most fun one can have. So yeah, I do prefer/need other players, but I'll never bet on a pubbie instead of someone I already know from my community and in the same vent/mumble/TS, it's stupid to do otherwise, and the best players already do this. There is nothing DayZ or spinoffs can do to remove or allievate KoS.

This and other posts like it miss the fact that I do not need to interact with anyone in the game socially. So what, you limit my inventory space and force me to accept a role? Okay, well, I'll just have my squadmate on TS pick up the mechanic tools, someone else will carry food, another ammo, etc. I'm part of a near 500 subcommunity of a near 200,000 primary community. At no point will I ever have to not shoot on sight because I don't need random players whom I can't trust, when I can play with people who I already know outside the game. It's like everyone is lookintg at this as if you're all lone wolves or are not part of a larger community. So yes, even after implementing your class idea, I'd still KoS because it's still the best choice. The only way you will slow or stop people from KoS is if you actively punish the action for doing so. Thus, KoS will never be fixed within the framework currently that will satisfy anyone.

Here is the issue, even if you add activities that require several people, you'll still have KoS, since players will then clan up and become even more insular. KoS will continue to exist for DayZ because we can communicate and organize outside the game, and we as gamers will continue to metagame. Unless there is a real, negative reason to not KoS, it will continue regardless because it's the most rational choice available.

Then you're not really agreeing with Ozelot, you're agreeing with most other sane people in the thread. Ozelots stance is that without a controlling force, humans are mostly frothing at the mouth killers aiting to be unleashed, which ignores the fact that while killing is something that is a part of life as a concept, civilization and thus the controlling force which prevents us from being those "rabid killers" is entirely a human construct. It'd be more logical to say that humans prefer peace and co-prosperity and only when our advanced social skills and instincts fail us do we resort to violence, either calculated or passionate. To think we prefer violence as a primary solution basically ignores human achievement and flies in the face of our evolutionary history. If we we're killers born, we'd look like bears, not a series of compromises intended to maximise social capability and creativity while being able to defend ourselves.

Can't agree with the sentiment that DayZ in anyway represents a post-apocalyptic situation or that KoS is realistic behavior. A major component missing is the need to group up to survive, it's damn near impossible to subsist on ones own let alone with a group, yet DayZ makes it a thing. Humans are predisposed to work together, second only to the instinct for survival, because its maximizing reward with minimizing risk. Relentless, mindless aggression is a poor strategy for a human, you're betting against the House and the House always wins, you will get killed eventually, through injury or sickness. I also heavily disagree with the assertion that humans like killing in anyway but can agree that escaping death (and thus fulfilling the survival imperative) is extremely rewarding, having escaped death myself at least 3 times, 7 if you count things not immediatly life threatening. I can testify that walking away from near death is one of the more thrilling things I've felt, but at no time was anyone else in danger but myself, so the source of elation was not having "truimphed" and killed another, it was because I cheated death. In turn, I've held someone(thing)'s life in my hands before, and it's simply the most terrifying, unpleasant and guilt ridden experience I've ever had. Those weren't feelings after a time of introspection, they were passionate feelings immediatly replacing whatever rage I had that ended me up in the situation, anger enough to kill replaced by empathy. I would never be able to kill another without killing myself on some level, so the very idea that I could grow to like it is preposterous to me.

This just reminds me how much DayZ needs a properly done city map, maybe during mid winter.

They could just try to overhual the blood+food system entirely instead of implementing such terrible "fixes" - up until now your survival was a small amount of luck but a large amount of skill, I don't like seeing changes that put a players fate in the hands of an RNG. Have naturually regenerating health - 10 point per minute. Have this adjusted by a number of factors, postitive and negative, such as whether you are active or resting. Implement medical kits, that have the proper tools to actually treat wounds. Bandages can stop bleeding but will leave the player "untreated", and an untreated character does not regenerate health. Medical kits can be used on oneself, but provide an additional blood regeneration bonus when another player applies it. Medical kist have limited usage and take up 6 inventory slots. Blood Bags now give a base 1500 blood and speed up the regeneration process to 100 points per minute for 15 minutes, you need 4 blood bags over an hour to fully recuperate - this is a little more authentic IMHO, given length of play session. You can apply a blood bag to onself, but only recieve half the benefit (750 blood, 50+ blood regen for 15 minutes) Food should have a degree of "quality", which effects blood regeneration. Good quality food speeds the process up (up to 100 points a minute, 6000 blood in one hour), most food would fall into normal quality which will get you small bonuses, and then terrible food quality which only satisfies hunger. Properly cooked food gives 4 times the number of servings compared to just eating it unprepared. Introduce cookware of various quality and capability (Basic, Iron, Military) which allows you too cook any food over a fire. Properly cooked food has a better quality to it, and food can be combined properly to get larger effects. IMHO, cookware should take up legitimate inventory space, with varied space taken up by the type of cookware. I think it'd make the game a little more authentic, while not really taking away anyone playstyle - lone wolf must be played more conservatively, and you might have to choose between a second gun or important medical or food supplies, and also draws the lone wolf towards player confrontation. Groups get the advantage of assigning roles and larger bonuses from having someone else tending to thier medical care, but they don't have an overwhelming immedaite advantage in combat that current blood bags provide. Obviously harder to implement then some RNG to whether a steak gives 1-800 blood.

Can't think of anything off the top of my head, will come back to this.

Sadly, if Rocket wants to give any organizational benefit to the players, that's pretty much where it is heading. Rockets reasoning for not including safe zones, that player shsould make them, can only be done by a certain level of organizational strength. Further, Hoiks suggestion also leads into this as a natural progression from a small group wanting to metagame the loot, to eventually server control to get the best loot. That's the whole point of a VC in which only one faction can celebrate in, to prevent the monopolization of an entire server. Further, you underestimate the proclivity of an entire group from outside the game coming to take the current factions stuff. Then the whole idea won't be implemented, since it is also a VC. As a bandit, I could get a group together to force the restart of the server - that's is my VC. Having a VC at the opposite end in which one group escapes being punished is merely means to an end, to prevent the idea from falling into a single metagamer group from basically civilizing it to death. I disagree with the clock counting purely down, very deterministic and nihilistic. DayZ should only tell such stories if the players allow it to happen, players should also be given the opportunity to save humanity.

You have no idea. I'm part of a near 250 man clan, if standalone is cheap, we could easily get 50 guys handingly this. Places like Reddit and SA have more then enough capability to organize externally to metagame at the level required. The games internal anonimity has nothing on the players external capability to organize. In fact, I'd say that metagamers would intially shun "randoms", and be composed almost entirely out of people who alreayd know each other. Differing times won't actually be an issue, especially if there are any tells. Unless the system is setup from the very beginning towards an inevitable reset, any metagaming group will attempt to take control of the clock (all the variables are in the players hands, so they will). Not knowing or having random times will just set the precedent that rules will be stricter and the metagaming will happen sooner (usually upon reset). The issue is that since it presents a wipe, a lot of people interested in keeping thier gear will also join the metagamers - it's the only way to keep everything you've worked for. There will in fact only be a few people who will actually attempt to kill at that point, as they'll lose everything. You'll essentially have two sets of people playing the game, with one groups entire purpose being ruining the game for the other guys, literal defintion of griefer. if you want to prevent this, then you need to present a way in which metagamer societies will end up in conflict. What you need, potentially, is a potential victory condition, a way to wind the clock so far back, that with enough gathered resources, civilization is "reestablished", again reseting the server. Further, since these groups are going to form to control resource gathering, set up the ability to create a server faction they can join, and once joined, they can't switch until reset, with a maxmum limit to the number in a faction. Then allow only one faction to share in the victory condition once achieved. Victory brings tangible benefits for those who won upon restart, so winning itself doesn't hurt as hard as compared to those who lost. Bam, no need for griefers, each player will be legitimately fighting for thier factions victory yet causing the clock to tip ever more towards reset no matter what happens. Concerned slightly with this potentially killing lonewolves and bandits however, since they have no VC besides keeping the metagamers forever at war, and thus keeping thier stuff - they'd actually go from fairly easy to play to being very difficult to play. IMHO, this is fine though - an apocalypse should be about the end times, whether man succumbs to it, or if he truimphs over it and proves his worth. Currently, we don't have an apocalypse, we simply have something worse then Somalia, in which no one is even trying to seize power. That's not natural - in the wake of a collapse someone is ALWAYS ambitious, someone ALWAYS will seek to establish thier version of order, someone is always lusting for power. I can see KoS, I can see brutality and needless cruelty, what is missing is the ability to organize and control. You're suggestion provides that, with some modifications.

A bit of a bump/necro, but as to the inverse quality/quantity issue, all it will do is force a very organized system in which you'll have large groups preemptively stockpiling everything, then forcing deaths to allow proper resource gathering again, while still having the old stockpiles, and resources will accumulate. Unless the system is set up towards inevitability (IE, the clock will strike midnight even under the most organized or best conditions) you'll get large poliferations of resources so long as there is some kind of organizing body to control the ALE and overall population, eventually to the point that the organizing body can provide for everyone so long as they keep at it. To a degree, that's great, but you've set the system up in which it is organization, instead of empathy or sociopathy, which is favored as a metagame tool. I don't know if you want DayZ to devolve into a choas vs order scenario where it's metagamer societies vs griefer brigands - it'll be less about the apocalpyse and more about the pre-apoclypse. It sounds fun in my head though, and if people want to metagame the spawns then you instantly provide meaning to everyones actions, and actually have "quests" to a degree almost instantly, with people doing necessary and important functions to keep the meta-ing alive, such as forming Cop/ranger groups to keep the Brigands out, and if the Brigands are doing a hell of a number, they may even have to take them alive just to prevent the inevitable slid towards reset!

I know it might get me flamed due to the apparent general feeling for the game, but I do like what L4D and to a lesser extent Killing Floor did with zombies/clots - added incapacitating elements, such as terrible movement speed when they are meleeing you. This at least makes them decently frighting in groups, as it can be hard to get them all off you before they tear you apart. I wouldn't want to see smokers and the like (although Tanks and Hunters are decently plausible), but would like to see Zeds being able to snack much more easily upon a lone survivor.

M9SD, lets me keep a good PvP weapon in primary. Mak or Glock otherwise. Not a fan of the PDWs distinct sound, M1911 and Revolver have to low ammo count.

Are you guys still up and running? I have a Mk48 and camo clothes I'd like to offload for you guys, as they are currently taking up quite a bit of room. Just outside of NW Airfield, towards the barn. Don't need anything in return but the space in my pack back.