The ONLY Realistic Way to Prevent Deathmatching: Make DayZ a Living Hell

[alexander_q 6]

In my signature you'll find a thread about "action assistance" which fits into what you've hinted at here.

Make zombies able to overpower people.

[Umbra (DayZ) 0]

This is a good idea +1

[dagon (DayZ) 17]

I love the ideas, I fail to see how this would prevent deathmatching as you put it. This may just become a team deathmatching instance then. But the ideas are golden

[Marten (DayZ) 2]

1+ to this

Hell should should wish to as hellish as Chernarus.

[wolfstriked 143]

Excessively hard does not mean realistic. I cannot think of any country where you can go from being in danger of freezing to death to being in danger of heatstroke by walking 6 kilometers. And honestly' date=' in a post-soviet satellite state, there would be no shortage of AK-47s or Makarovs. I'm assuming the people in DayZ have bone densty problems because they break a fuckin' leg when they are hit by a walking emaciated corpse.

[/quote']

Not corpses but rather infected humans that lose their minds from the virus's way of increasing all the bodies hormone levels almost to primitive mans levels.This is where that crazy strength and speed comes from but it has debilitating effects in that the human body can only produce a set amount of hormones per timespan.Its why they crawl around or travel on all 4's like monkeys.Its the standing ones you need to watch out for as they may be at extreme hormone levels and ready to burst upon you.:P

[Royce59 19]

+1

Making Day-Z harder will force teamwork...

but not for me, i will still kill everyone on sight haha.

[TheProphecy 33]

I definitely like most of the ideas. I do have a concern, however, and I don't know if it's been touched on yet, as 23 pages is a lot to read. If all of these ideas were somehow implemented, think of the bag space required just to maintain yourself now. Wood, bandages, antibiotics, morphine, epi-pens, painkillers and alcohol/peroxide would all become mandatory. That's 8 slots right there for one of each, 7 in the main inventory, 1 in the secondary. Then we need food and water, another two main inventory slots at least. Next up is ammo. I can only see having like 3 clips max, as those medical supplies would take up a ton of bag space. Then we have misc items like tin cans, flares, chemlights. These already get skipped over for lack of bag space already. Can't imagine a lot of people picking them up with these proposed changes. Finally, we have vehicle parts. Vehicles sound like they would be vital to survival with these changes. We all know how many spaces vehicle parts take up.

So with this in mind, would you propose any changes to the pack system?

[logan23 118]

Here is something that will bring the effects of killing based on real world-

This will be building on the Humanity System which is in the game now.

I believe that DayZ should be very brutal game to all game styles.

From "Psychology of killing" (Reference for system)

http://www.military-sf.com/Killing.htm

"Obsessional and Complusive States are like Conversion Hysteria except the soldier is more aware of what is going on. The soldier understands that fear is causing everything but he cannot do anything about it. This can be manifested by uncontrollable tremors, palpitations, stammers, tics and so on. After a while the trooper may find some kind of hysteria that allows him to escape psychic responsibility for the physical symptoms."

"Character Disorders are when a soldier becomes fixated on certain actions or things. Paranoia may include irascibility, depression and anxiety about his personal safety. Schizoids become hypersensitive and prefer to be alone. Epileptoid's become more prone to violent and sometimes unpredictable rages. Some become obsessed with religion and some become psychotic. In essence a person's very character has changed."

I designed the system to be like the Temp system…where you first lose/ decline in humanity which leads to the in system Heartbeat but if it drops to 0 (very low) and it’s been an amount of time in this state then you would get effects just like in the Temp system you get a cough/sick-lose blood.

Humanity needs to return to original starting level after each death. This will help balance variables and also not force players to play a certain style when they wish to change from a more protective shoot on site survivor to a wants to help out other survivors.

Let’s say for making numbers simple, we will use a 0-10 humanity number scale.

10= Start/full humanity

0= No Humanity

When a player kills another player-

Player is injured and returns fire and kills other player = -1 to Humanity scale

Player shoot other player and is not injured/hit during conflict = -2 to Humanity scale

Player shots player from great distance (snipers) and kills player = -3 to Humanity scale (The reason for snipering players gives a net larger lost in humanity is because they have the largest choice to not shoot and let a player go since they have the least amount of risk to them.)

As the player lowers their humanity, they start to hear the heart beat as it is in game now. But when your humanity =0 and it stays at 0 for let’s say 1 to 2 hours (these are place holder numbers) then like in the Temp system where you get a cold or shakes, while The Humanity system moves to a second level as well.

From my Reference material-

This second level of low humanity that is Humanity =0 for 1-2 hours would be:

The player would then hear gun shots, Zombie/infected voices, a gun reloading, sounds that would make a player un able to tell if it’s real or not without looking around. This would happen every so often. Script could do a get sound effect XYZ and play then do a random number = seconds/mins before another set of sounds are played again. The idea is to have it random and happen after a certain amount of time so the player will not be able to know this is from the low humanity. If the player’s water/food levels are low then this also could trigger a more constant cycle of sounds in a shorter cycle of time. This would continue until you up your Humanity to 1.

(I’m right now against adding tremors or tics to this system since it more heavily puts a burden on the player, rather it be subtle like the temp system.)

Now with this system you need a way to bring back humanity in a way that can’t be exploited but team of players.

To gain back humanity just like in the Temp System, we could make a new item that would be the antibiotics for Low Humanity.

This item could be some pills or a shot of something. (It should not be the in game pain killers because you will have players with low humanity hunting newly spawn players since they have no gun and pain killers) This should be a new item.

This item/pills/drug would only bump you from 0 humanity to 1. This means the condition could return if you kill again. To solve this from being always on the edge there needs to be a way to raise Humanity in general.

If you can script for giving blood transfusions or bandages to increase humanity but do a check so that it only raises it if it’s a different player you bandaging or to only allow players to raise from bandage ever so many minutes. And even then it should be adding only 1 to the humanity scale.

I can see humanity being raised with mechanics built around building a society and settlements. This system I’m laying out might be something that can be placed in when those side missions and building a settlement/society is ready to be implemented into DayZ.

[cjj (DayZ) 0]

Making it harder will just give bandits more of an incentive to kill players to get there loot seen as though the loot is harder to get, hurr.

[earion 3]

Here is something that will bring the effects of killing based on real world-

This will be building on the Humanity System which is in the game now.

I believe that DayZ should be very brutal game to all game styles.

From "Psychology of killing" (Reference for system)

http://www.military-sf.com/Killing.htm

"Obsessional and Complusive States are like Conversion Hysteria except the soldier is more aware of what is going on. The soldier understands that fear is causing everything but he cannot do anything about it. This can be manifested by uncontrollable tremors' date=' palpitations, stammers, tics and so on. After a while the trooper may find some kind of hysteria that allows him to escape psychic responsibility for the physical symptoms."

"Character Disorders are when a soldier becomes fixated on certain actions or things. Paranoia may include irascibility, depression and anxiety about his personal safety. Schizoids become hypersensitive and prefer to be alone. Epileptoid's become more prone to violent and sometimes unpredictable rages. Some become obsessed with religion and some become psychotic. In essence a person's very character has changed."

I designed the system to be like the Temp system…where you first lose/ decline in humanity which leads to the in system Heartbeat but if it drops to 0 (very low) and it’s been an amount of time in this state then you would get effects just like in the Temp system you get a cough/sick-lose blood.

Humanity needs to return to original starting level after each death. This will help balance variables and also not force players to play a certain style when they wish to change from a more protective shoot on site survivor to a wants to help out other survivors.

Let’s say for making numbers simple, we will use a 0-10 humanity number scale.

10= Start/full humanity

0= No Humanity

When a player kills another player-

Player is injured and returns fire and kills other player = -1 to Humanity scale

Player shoot other player and is not injured/hit during conflict = -2 to Humanity scale

Player shots player from great distance (snipers) and kills player = -3 to Humanity scale (The reason for snipering players gives a net larger lost in humanity is because they have the largest choice to not shoot and let a player go since they have the least amount of risk to them.)

As the player lowers their humanity, they start to hear the heart beat as it is in game now. But when your humanity =0 and it stays at 0 for let’s say 1 to 2 hours (these are place holder numbers) then like in the Temp system where you get a cold or shakes, while The Humanity system moves to a second level as well.

From my Reference material-

This second level of low humanity that is Humanity =0 for 1-2 hours would be:

The player would then hear gun shots, Zombie/infected voices, a gun reloading, sounds that would make a player un able to tell if it’s real or not without looking around. This would happen every so often. Script could do a get sound effect XYZ and play then do a random number = seconds/mins before another set of sounds are played again. The idea is to have it random and happen after a certain amount of time so the player will not be able to know this is from the low humanity. If the player’s water/food levels are low then this also could trigger a more constant cycle of sounds in a shorter cycle of time. This would continue until you up your Humanity to 1.

(I’m right now against adding tremors or tics to this system since it more heavily puts a burden on the player, rather it be subtle like the temp system.)

Now with this system you need a way to bring back humanity in a way that can’t be exploited but team of players.

To gain back humanity just like in the Temp System, we could make a new item that would be the antibiotics for Low Humanity.

This item could be some pills or a shot of something. (It should not be the in game pain killers because you will have players with low humanity hunting newly spawn players since they have no gun and pain killers) This should be a new item.

This item/pills/drug would only bump you from 0 humanity to 1. This means the condition could return if you kill again. To solve this from being always on the edge there needs to be a way to raise Humanity in general.

If you can script for giving blood transfusions or bandages to increase humanity but do a check so that it only raises it if it’s a different player you bandaging or to only allow players to raise from bandage ever so many minutes. And even then it should be adding only 1 to the humanity scale.

I can see humanity being raised with mechanics built around building a society and settlements. This system I’m laying out might be something that can be placed in when those side missions and building a settlement/society is ready to be implemented into DayZ.

[/quote']

Thought about this. You should start a suggestion thread on its own for that stuff.

---

I definitely like most of the ideas. I do have a concern' date=' however, and I don't know if it's been touched on yet, as 23 pages is a lot to read. If all of these ideas were somehow implemented, think of the bag space required just to maintain yourself now. Wood, bandages, antibiotics, morphine, epi-pens, painkillers and alcohol/peroxide would all become mandatory. That's 8 slots right there for one of each, 7 in the main inventory, 1 in the secondary. Then we need food and water, another two main inventory slots at least. Next up is ammo. I can only see having like 3 clips max, as those medical supplies would take up a ton of bag space. Then we have misc items like tin cans, flares, chemlights. These already get skipped over for lack of bag space already. Can't imagine a lot of people picking them up with these proposed changes. Finally, we have vehicle parts. Vehicles sound like they would be vital to survival with these changes. We all know how many spaces vehicle parts take up.

So with this in mind, would you propose any changes to the pack system?

[/quote']

I think the point of this is coop... so you have to share backpack space with your pals, because there is too much to carry for just one person.

[Powell (DayZ) 734]

+1

Making Day-Z harder will force teamwork...

but not for me' date=' i will still kill everyone on sight haha.

[/quote']

*facepalm*

WHYYYY?

[logan23 118]

Making it harder will just give bandits more of an incentive to kill players to get there loot seen as though the loot is harder to get' date=' hurr.

[/quote']

Actually there is a line in the sand where Players who only wish to easily kill players will start to get frustrated since you can run and gun for gear/loot/weapons. (This theory is the same as there being a line in the sand where new players or casuals will just get frustrated and leave too.)

I believe DayZ PvP type of players know when to shoot and when not to. And if there is a mechanic where we have roaming Zeds in forests or even gun fore can spawn a few in a distance- they slowly walk toward the gun fore. We will start hearing cries from players who got killed because all they did was sit on a hill and shoot players,...adding to the lower spawns of military or ammo in general means that they can shoot only a number of times before they are out of ammo. They will then cry about lack of ammo since they are acting like they are Rambo.

While players who conduct in PvP and work within the game's future systems know that they will make decisions when to fire and when not to. They will not be griefing players but they will be working only to survive.

Players who grief other players do it because they are either bored or there is no penalty/- its easy.

If DayZ takes on some of the ideas which the OP and others have been tossing around in this forum, these griefers will leave the game or adapt. I can see many leaving the game due to these brutal concepts. griefers don't want to worry about being sick, or wither they need to make a splint, have a hard time finding ammo. Griefers want to just get the satisfaction of messing with other players,..which will be hard when the DayZ world is Griefing them...with brutal game mechanics to bring the game world to life.

No matter what the Devs do there will always be some PvP but I rather have it where the player who kills me has done it through skill and survived the harsh land then some one who grabbed a gun and is shooting knowing they will re spawn and easily grab another gun. The new concepts here would mean that this player might shoot like rambo and get killed, then respawn only to end up getting sick or infection while getting that gun....so they might even die before they even go around trying to grief a player.

the goal is never to remove PvP but only to remove the griefers....you know who i'm talking about.

[Uuni 74]

Great suggestions, all they need to do before these difficulty increases is to fix zeds going thru walls, make them slower and make them more predictable with their path finding which is way too random atm

[logan23 118]

Great suggestions' date=' all they need to do before these difficulty increases is to fix zeds going thru walls, make them slower and make them more predictable with their path finding which is way too random atm

[/quote']

They will fix the Zeds attack through walls.

But the Zeds getting slower or fully predicable - isn't going to happen.

These are 28 Days Later Zombies/infected- they move fast = Fear

[vesmo 21]

Great suggestions' date=' all they need to do before these difficulty increases is to fix zeds going thru walls, make them slower and make them more predictable with their path finding which is way too random atm

[/quote']

They will fix the Zeds attack through walls.

But the Zeds getting slower or fully predicable - isn't going to happen.

These are 28 Days Later Zombies/infected- they move fast = Fear

Personally I feel like the zeds are really easy right now, it is so easy to stealth around them you practically don't need a gun. I would love to see mainly slow zombies who pick up the pace if you start to run away from them in full sight, with a couple of runners out there who can match a survivor in full flight. This would make for some interesting and horrible scenarios as you might have to shoot the runners but pull the rest of the zombies on your ass, still with a chance to run away into the forest without being caught.

I have to say I'm getting bored of just always sneaking past the zeds, I want to be forced into situations where I can't avoid shooting them (which wouldn't work with the current behaviour as they are all frickin' Usain Bolt). But yeah, let's see what 1.7.2 holds as Rocket said the infected behaviour is much better in the upcoming patch.

[FrIEND (DayZ) 9]

Didnt read the huuuuge wall of text but i guess he wants to make Game Harder to force people to COOP?

if so, Good.. because dayz is too easy as it is now

[ZomboWTF 527]

Bumpy

I totally agree, zombies need to be the main threat in dayZ, not only to keep people entertained, but also to make deathmatching not that important

Let zombies spawn in forrests, make them stronger, but let you get them off of you (since without a weapon you need that)

maybe make them slower, but then let them actually hit you when they can run

its DayZ, not DayDeathmatch

[Virfortis 111]

The main problem is the "pyramid" of power. Sort of like a caste system.

On the bottom line is the survivors/Shorebies. They are the biggest group, but they also are what supports DayZ with sheer numbers to make the game seem larger than it really is. They tend to solo and rarely group up, yet without them everything would feel lifeless.

Up that tier is the Veterans/Adventurers. These players do not shoot unless they have to (they use common sense) and are at the heart of the pyramid. They've survived the apocalypse and know how to continue surviving in the wasteland. They know to avoid big cities and know the places that are "hotspots" for camping. They are at the center to everything that is DayZ, hardcore survivalists that will either avoid or aid new players, but aren't afraid to shoot people when it gets down to it. They have more power than shorebies, but nothing that time and experience can't fix.

At the top is the clans. These players are more apt to shoot for your food and are not afraid to raid cities when in need of supplies. They usually roam in large bandit groups, are stationed in a base, and will shoot anyone not with them on sight. The only way to get involved in the clan caste is to metagame into their out-of-game clan/teamspeak, which ruins immersion terribly. Naturally, they are smaller in number, but are the most seen.

The PvPers are like birds. They usually sit on top and peck away at the pyramid while crapping all over it because they can. There's an entire world where they could be, even more comfortably in some places (other mass PvP games) but they prefer to just sit and squawk "your tears are delicious" while they deface what makes DayZ entertaining: Rising in the ranks.

[miragexl 33]

My opinion is that the developers don't have a choice if they want pvp to go it's the community; This shoot on sight bollocks is what is creating the wars and mass death and if more players were like myself there would be a lot more trading and trust involved.

[alexander_q 6]

My opinion is that the developers don't have a choice if they want pvp to go it's the community; This shoot on sight bollocks is what is creating the wars and mass death and if more players were like myself there would be a lot more trading and trust involved.

I thoroughly disagree. That's like saying the solution to thwarting mexican drug cartels is "people should be nicer to each other". Individual attitude fits on a predictable curve based on the checks and balances inherent in the system.

The solution to PvP is to give players more mechanisms to signal and demonstrate their friendliness, and give more rewards for cooperation.

[Deviationist 5]

I don't want to focus on the zombies... encounters (deadly as they are) with other survivors are what I enjoy. Overcoming AI is relatively easy, there are always ways to circumvent them regardless of their strength or numbers. I want the unknown that is another persons mind on the other end of the equation, and I want it to be my main concern/focus.

I respect the fact that some people don't have the same interest. However it appears that this game is such by design. If zombie survival without other player character interference is your thing perhaps you are playing the wrong game?

Regardless it makes me think of ZombieU for the upcoming WiiU... that game looks interesting (although I tend to think it was inspired by Rockets game) and more what some people here are asking for.

[Delta Smoke 01 765]

fuck all of the shit you just said. I'm never gonna team up with some theater kid who'll probably end up killing me. making the mod harder by making the already broken zombie mechanics worse isnt gonna solve anything. you aren't going to get rid of the pvp in this mod so stop trying to

He clearly said he didnt want to get rid of pvp. These idea's are the best yet and il bet atleast 5 end up in the game as a mod' date=' more in standalone. Furthermore you are a bell end.

[hr']

Imo id like to see a lot of this in game. All you hater's are only slamming this because you wont be able to horde stupid amounts of ammo and kill unarmed noobs. Great ideas mate its clear youv really put some thought into this. Hope rocket gets a chance to read your epic wall of text as im sure he thinks along the same lines as us. In a nutshell the game wont change much for bandits, and survivors will have a motivation to play once again. Great stuff mate keep it coming :)

[goz 8]

Bring the Hell, I love those ideas

[Powell (DayZ) 734]

Didnt read the huuuuge wall of text but i guess he wants to make Game Harder to force people to COOP?

if so' date=' Good.. because dayz is too easy as it is now

[/quote']

i recommend reading it

[unrated (DayZ) 0]

agreed and signed. pretty good ideas and in my eyes they could be realized. at least it will take a long time but im pretty sure with the updates incoming we will get more and more surprised :)