Torture in DayZ SA?

[hal269091 1]

I have found a few discussion in this forum about morality in gaming, but those seemed to be focused on player's chosen actions rather than game design.

So I want to ask, if anyone gets bothered by the way the Standalone allows to torture other players, by handcuffing and poisoning them, or beating them while tied until they bleed out.

We all got used to kill other players in online games. Of course, from an ethic point of view that's questionable, too. But on one side in that case chances are more often kinda equal than not (probably most people will agree that killing unarmed freshspawns is not something to be proud of, as it does not require much skill). On the other side a game that wouldn't offer that chance to compete with other players would be pretty boring.

But how about holding up unarmed playes, handcuff them, poison them, beat or hack them and watch them bleeding to death? In other words fulfill some weird sadistic fantasies? Of course I know that most players wouldn't probably enjoy doing such things. Or at least feel bad after they 'tried' it a first time.

But that is not the point. The question is, if it is acceptable that a game does provide the opportunity to do so?

Of course, its just a game, just pixels on a screen, with a bunch of calculations behind them. Not real by any means...
In addition its cool, to make a game as realistic as possible.

Seeing that, could we have rape implemented as well? That would be very realistic, in a place like infected Chernaurus. and hey, its just pixels...
Or could we have Children implemented. For sure there would be sex amongst so many survivors. So there would have to be Children, whom we could rape and/ or torture, too. It's just pixels...
We could have cannibalism implemented, and also the ability to dismember other players. Both quite realistic, both just pixels in a game, not real...

Maybe you can see now where I am coming from.

The question is: Are there in fact any limits about what a video game should offer players to do ingame, or should we implement everything thats realistically possible?

And if there is a limit, where is it. Is torturing still within that limit? Is rape? Is voilence against children?

For me personally torture is off limits, I simply wouldn't want to play a game, that allows players to do so, especially in such a placative way like the Standalone does. I did play the Mod a lot, but its unlikely I will support the Standalone by buying it - despite I do in fact like a lot of the other things the devs have already implemented by now.

But that's just my personal opinion, and its not my intention to offend or judge anyone who sees it differently.

I would be very interested in hearing your opinions, especially if the would come supported by reasonable counter-arguments. Not just related to the Standalone, but to the questions asked above applied to online video games in general, too.
 

[tiadashi 262]

I personally wouldn't do it, but im glad theres some who do, it makes for some interesting game play - sometimes

[MLG420blazeit 62]

It's pretty pointless IMO. Doesn't achieve anything and the person being "tortured" is just sitting there, most likely AFK since you can't do anything anyway.

 

Neither gripping or interesting, it's just something there for folks that are either very bored or very deranged. 

[Bororm 1156]

I think there's a line, I'd draw it around rape.  The "torture" present in game isn't very graphic or anything, it's poisoning and beating as mentioned.  You aren't pulling finger nails or getting too crazy (ok that one guy shot a dude in the dick with a .22 =P but that's about as wild as you're gonna see and more funny than cruel) so the "torture" isn't really any different than the things you're able to do to a guy who isn't restrained in game.

Personally I feel what's in game hardly even qualifies as torture since you can just log off/die, and none of the current stuff should really cause you any real distress.  If you get handcuffed, you pretty much did it willingly (in the sense that you could just run/die/fight instead).  The closest thing to torture would be breaking a guys leg and making him crawl imo.

 

Dudes already try to simulate rape in game, and I'd leave it at that, there's no need for a rape animation or something and at that point you're getting pretty lewd imo.

 

If it was implemented I wouldn't be up in arms about it, but I'd feel it'd be in bad taste personally.  I don't feel it would add anything to the game either.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Bororm

[hal269091 1]

@tiadashi, @MLG420blazeit

 

Let me put my question clearer, for you and any future readers: What would have to be implemented in the game (in respect of what I wrote in my first post), that YOU would not want to buy it for ethical reasons. Or would you not have ethical concerns at all?

[MLG420blazeit 62]

I think there's a line, I'd draw it around rape.  The "torture" present in game isn't very graphic or anything, it's poisoning and beating as mentioned.  You aren't pulling finger nails or getting too crazy (ok that one guy shot a dude in the dick with a .22 =P but that's about as wild as you're gonna see and more funny than cruel) so the "torture" isn't really any different than the things you're able to do to a guy who isn't restrained in game.

Personally I feel what's in game hardly even qualifies as torture since you can just log off/die, and none of the current stuff should really cause you any real distress.  If you get handcuffed, you pretty much did it willingly (in the sense that you could just run/die/fight instead).  The closest thing to torture would be breaking a guys leg and making him crawl imo.

 

Dudes already try to simulate rape in game, and I'd leave it at that, there's no need for a rape animation or something and at that point you're getting pretty lewd imo.

 

If it was implemented I wouldn't be up in arms about it, but I'd feel it'd be in bad taste personally.  I don't feel it would add anything to the game either.

 

The thing is, there's literally no point. Oh wow my in-game character that's completely disposable, and whom I have absolutely no attachment to, is getting force fed poison... Oh no how will I recover from this traumatizing event...

[MLG420blazeit 62]

@tiadashi, @MLG420blazeit

 

Let me put my question clearer, for you and any future readers: What would have to be implemented in the game (in respect of what I wrote in my first post), that YOU would not want to buy it for ethical reasons. Or would you not have ethical concerns at all?

 

I don't know man, it's just a game, but there's certainly loads of weird shit you could put in it, which would make it banned from several countries. 

[liquidsnake 275]

Would like to see various ways to kill a player when cuffed, but torture is pointless. 
Slitting throats, leaving heavily mutilated bodies to be found by others, things like that. For me, putting a burlap sack over their head and making them run before shooting them in the back is enough. 

Edited June 15, 2014 by The End.

[Bororm 1156]

The thing is, there's literally no point. Oh wow my in-game character that's completely disposable, and whom I have absolutely no attachment to, is getting force fed poison... Oh no how will I recover from this traumatizing event...

 

Yeah, which is why I don't really consider it torture to begin with.

 

 

@tiadashi, @MLG420blazeit

 

Let me put my question clearer, for you and any future readers: What would have to be implemented in the game (in respect of what I wrote in my first post), that YOU would not want to buy it for ethical reasons. Or would you not have ethical concerns at all?

 

I wasn't included but I'll answer any ways.  Personally, as long as the game was still fun and it wasn't the major focus I don't think I'd really care what they added.  If it turned into a total rape/baby killer/twisted simulator, like if that became the focus of the game, I'd no longer be interested and I wouldn't buy it to begin with.  But, if fucked up shit was added, but was an option and an edge case that I didn't need to willingly participate in or be frequently exposed to, and the rest of the game was awesome I probably wouldn't really care.

 

Again I'd think it was in really poor taste though.

[hal269091 1]

@Bororm: I agree to many things. Look at THIS video - honestly - I find that quite graphic (scene at around 10 minues). I largely agree weith the rest of your post. But thats not so much about game design, more about practical handling of the situation once you are in it. Honestly I find situations like those in the linked video much sader for the active parts than for the victim. As a victim, you die, like so often in DayZ, and as you mentioned, there are several ways to handle such a situation. For the torturers its like they revealed a side of their personality which doesn't seem to be appealing...

 

But thanks for answering my question - that you would see a limit when it comes to rape (What guys simulate now is almost everytime just fooling around with buddies and friends, and so just funny).

[pillock 850]

I think there's a fairly simple answer here:

 

It should absolutely be possible to injure people by shooting or hitting their limbs - and this is not necessarily "torture". It should also be possible to feed people, since you need to do this in certain medical situations. It should also be possible to restrain people, since this is another part of the gameplay and a useful/relevant option in the scenario.

 

If people choose to combine these separate actions to simulate "torture", then that's their doing - it's not an explicit gameplay design.

 

Adding rape would be an intentional and wholly unnecessary, tasteless, offensive feature with no defensible gameplay advantages. Similarly, adding children is not really necessary for gameplay, since NPC humans are not likely to feature, and the ability to play as a child is also not a useful addition.

 

The only issue I can think of that straddles the line is in regards to bodily waste - it is relevant to gameplay and the scenario to add faecal pollution that affects hygiene and disease mechanics; however, it leads to the possibility of players force-feeding shit to their captives, which is a pretty unsavoury prospect that many people would find too offensive to warrant inclusion.

[rickyriot 1009]

If I could be bothered I'd go hunting for the thread that was started more or less just after Alpha was released where a poster put up quite an impassioned argument for rape to be included in the game.

 

Quite funny to think that when Rocket was joking about what to do with burlap sacks someone mentioned they should be able to put them over people's heads and Rocket's reply was "ooh, dark". Clearly we have all come on somewhat from there.. ;)

[p4triot 207]

I have found a few discussion in this forum about morality in gaming, but those seemed to be focused on player's chosen actions rather than game design.

So I want to ask, if anyone gets bothered by the way the Standalone allows to torture other players, by handcuffing and poisoning them, or beating them while tied until they bleed out.

We all got used to kill other players in online games. Of course, from an ethic point of view that's questionable, too. But on one side in that case chances are more often kinda equal than not (probably most people will agree that killing unarmed freshspawns is not something to be proud of, as it does not require much skill). On the other side a game that wouldn't offer that chance to compete with other players would be pretty boring.

But how about holding up unarmed playes, handcuff them, poison them, beat or hack them and watch them bleeding to death? In other words fulfill some weird sadistic fantasies? Of course I know that most players wouldn't probably enjoy doing such things. Or at least feel bad after they 'tried' it a first time.

But that is not the point. The question is, if it is acceptable that a game does provide the opportunity to do so?

Of course, its just a game, just pixels on a screen, with a bunch of calculations behind them. Not real by any means...

In addition its cool, to make a game as realistic as possible.

Seeing that, could we have rape implemented as well? That would be very realistic, in a place like infected Chernaurus. and hey, its just pixels...

Or could we have Children implemented. For sure there would be sex amongst so many survivors. So there would have to be Children, whom we could rape and/ or torture, too. It's just pixels...

We could have cannibalism implemented, and also the ability to dismember other players. Both quite realistic, both just pixels in a game, not real...

Maybe you can see now where I am coming from.

The question is: Are there in fact any limits about what a video game should offer players to do ingame, or should we implement everything thats realistically possible?

And if there is a limit, where is it. Is torturing still within that limit? Is rape? Is voilence against children?

For me personally torture is off limits, I simply wouldn't want to play a game, that allows players to do so, especially in such a placative way like the Standalone does. I did play the Mod a lot, but its unlikely I will support the Standalone by buying it - despite I do in fact like a lot of the other things the devs have already implemented by now.

But that's just my personal opinion, and its not my intention to offend or judge anyone who sees it differently.

I would be very interested in hearing your opinions, especially if the would come supported by reasonable counter-arguments. Not just related to the Standalone, but to the questions asked above applied to online video games in general, too.

 

 

Children and rape I think its something they cant add for legal motives. But cannibalism and dismember is something I definitely would like to see ingame.

 

And if you dont like torture you simply dont torture anyone ingame, thats the beaty of it, the different personalities of the players ingame. Its not like any CoD or CS or more or less any game when everyone is the same (a soldier, an assassin, or whatever). You can't choose to play cod peacefully without ever killing someone, but you can do so in DayZ. Same you can choose to be the sickest bastard on earth. This is why I love this game, sets the psychology playability to a new level.

 

[oanj 28]

Torture is disgusting, deranged and sick. It has no place in a game.

[Martmital 436]

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should...

 

some people get their kicks from the strangest of things.

[Nesuma (DayZ) 108]

Torture is disgusting, deranged and sick. It has no place in a game.

If it has its place anywhere, it's here. But are you worrying about how it is right now or how it might evolve?

If they would ask the players if they should add rape and stuff I don't know how I would answer because I am the opinion that everything is ok in a game, I for example don't like some things (I remember the CoD mission at the airport, i felt sick, and had the urge to go on with the campagin to seek revenge). But these things still increase immersion, and if you want revenge because a stranger just impregnated you during rape, well atleast something to do...?

Edit: Cannibalism and the ability to dismember other players HAVE to be added anyway, too many good points and only the one, less severe point of moral against it.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Nesuma

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Reading these forums is torture enough, if they could implement this exact style in the game that would be awesome

[xalienax 621]

@tiadashi, @MLG420blazeit

 

Let me put my question clearer, for you and any future readers: What would have to be implemented in the game (in respect of what I wrote in my first post), that YOU would not want to buy it for ethical reasons. Or would you not have ethical concerns at all?

none at all. its a game. neither the characters nor what you do to them/is done to you is real. "torture" in a game no matter how graphic or detailed is little more then legitimized trolling at most. that said; i view it in the literal sense- pixels on my screen that i can detach from at will. i don't think there is a line. and if there was a line i would make a point of crossing it atleast once just to prove my point that its purely a personal/cultural construction.

[Anox 10]

I'd honestly be 100% supportive of any additions, such as torture. Just more things to encourage players to adapt to their own unique play style.

[Deathlove 2286]

Time to go full on Centipede on ppl! XD

[tobias winfro 305]

The idea of torture treads a very thin line with the way the world has devolved these days. All its gonna take is one wacked out kid to say well I didn't know it was wrong I did in this video game I play called Dayz and then the media circus will begin.

On to the idea of rape....no, just plain no. In what context would this be even remotely fun or amusing? I mean damn, if most players meet a female, they act all weird and are interested in doing what they can to get them naked.

As a father of a young child I am appauled that you have the audacity to even mention the rape or torture of little children. I'm not sure what ass backward part of the world you live in but how could you even think to mention this? Just suggesting it makes me want to punch you in the face, I realize it happens every day but there is a line between realism and what should be allowed and that one crosses it

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

I'll throw in my 2 cents on the topic.

 

It's not real.  There's a difference between someone skinning cats alive, and punching a handcuffed video game character in some effort to torture them.  It does say something about the person doing such things, but not about the game overall.  I would think they added drinking bleach and such either a means of killing ourselves or as a 'stove hot' mechanic.  If you're stupid enough to do it and live you'll learn not to do it again.  It was a fad at release because there wasn't much else to do.  That video you show is nothing, just a bunch of jackasses being jackasses in a game.  You think that's bad where a pixel is being beaten to the point of bleeding and shot for the 'lulz' is bad, try watching a pig being slaughtered.  The generic fountains of blood are nothing compared to seeing the real thing slowly creep down someone's driveway as soft oinks turn into ear piercing squeals and ends with a heavy thud.  That made me more than a little queasy, and I eat pork almost exclusively.

 

On the topic of 'what do they need to add', that's an unanswerable question, because the game would be shutdown/banned before anything 'offensive' that would make me stop playing was added.  That won't stop the asshole players from trying.  Rape for example, it'll NEVER be added, but players will try, even if they just handcuff their victim, stand directly in front of them and just verbally abuse, 'oh yeah, such it bitch' ect ect ect.

 

Now granted, I've never been tortured in game, but see no point to it either.  If I were, with the mechanic we have now our character is killed if we logged out while handcuffed, which is what I would do if I had any inclination to know that my captors are going to kill me anyway.  I'd just consider it biting my tongue off to kill myself, but that's because I know this is a game and rather than sit through their jerkfest waiting to be killed, I'd rather skip all that and start over sooner.

[Kaboki 62]

Rape, sex, torture and cannibalism I'm all in(exclude children, that would be too sick, even for me :P ). Movies have these things, so why can't videogames?. Looks even worse on movies because its not pixels but actual filmed scenes..

[xalienax 621]

Rape, sex, torture and cannibalism I'm all in(exclude children, that would be too sick, even for me :P ). Movies have these things, so why can't videogames?. Looks even worse on movies because its not pixels but actual filmed scenes..

Basicly this.

 

Im anti-censorship and strongly in favor of both media and sciences being 100% unrestricted.

 

You (as an individual) have every right to be offended, disgusted, etc by given subject matter. you have every right to turn it off or ignore it's existance, but under no means shoul creation of anything be restricted because someone may find it offensive. period.

[Pandema 352]

"We need better torture and rape added! And then kids so we can rape and torture them too!"

 

Holy fuck the edginess in that OP.