Ammo Calibration : Poll & Discussion

[PhillyT 554]

You're making perfect sense, no worries.

 

This is why I've taken issue with the developers trying to have it both ways. They're seemingly reducing the number of ammunition types as to be more specific to the weapons themselves... BUT... they're also broadening the use of ammunition across different weapon types (i.e. 7.62x51 NATO).

 

My proposal, is to make the generic rounds generic and make the "rare" rounds more specific. By adding a modest four new rounds. So, you can have 7.62x51 NATO be a flexible round... but it's just not AS flexible as it is right now. It's flexible in weapons which are indeed likely to be rare, vice stretching the gap between common and rare weapons. In other words, just by adding something as inane as a "hunting caliber" (in this case, .30-06, but it can be whatever) you're pushing 7.62x51 NATO out of the "low-end" and into the "high-end" without making odd delineations.

 

Succinctly, I want 7.62x51 (specifically) to be used in the range of GPMGs and Battle Rifles/DMRs and that's it. Not all low-end bolt-actions, not in double rifles, not in break-action pistols AND GPMGs/BRs/DMRs.

 

 

* New calibers are denoted by the (II) marking

** .338 LM/.300 WM are cross-calibers, meaning they're not really related to NATO/Warsaw Pact. Likewise, there is a typo, it's intended to read .300 WM vice .338 WM

*** .22 LR has been left out

 

There are some additional outliers (both utilitarian and "realistic"), which I won't bore you with.

 

 

I would say remove the 30'06 completely and just use the 7.62x51 for generic rifle ammo.  More common than the 30'06 anyway.

[gibonez 3633]

I would say remove the 30'06 completely and just use the 7.62x51 for generic rifle ammo. More common than the 30'06 anyway.

More common how?

In military firearms sure.

More common in civilian hands world wide no.

30-06 I believe still remains the most popular big game hunting round world wide.

[pilgrim* 3514]

More common how?

In military firearms sure.

More common in civilian hands world wide no.

30-06 I believe still remains the most popular big game hunting round world wide.

 

"the .308 Winchester has become the most popular short-action, big-game hunting cartridge worldwide"

 

"Although very similar to the military 7.62x51mm NATO specifications, the .308 cartridge is not identical, and there are special considerations that may apply when mixing these cartridges with 7.62×51mm NATO, and .308 Winchester chambered arms. Their interchange is, however, considered safe by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI)."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester

Edited June 2, 2014 by pilgrim

[pacpac 22]

this user doesn't care about the right caliber.

 

more ammo types + less ammo spawns + ammo spawn rate nerfed + mags spawning empty = AMMO TOO RARE

 

dayz is a DM first and foremost.

[gibonez 3633]

"the .308 Winchester has become the most popular short-action, big-game hunting cartridge worldwide"

"Although very similar to the military 7.62x51mm NATO specifications, the .308 cartridge is not identical, and there are special considerations that may apply when mixing these cartridges with 7.62×51mm NATO, and .308 Winchester chambered arms. Their interchange is, however, considered safe by the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester

Magic word is short action.

Yes it Is the most popular short action Hu ting round.

30-06 is long action and overall the most popular big game cartridge in the world since it's inception 100 years ago.

[pilgrim* 3514]

Magic word is short action.

Yes it Is the most popular short action Hu ting round.

30-06 is long action and overall the most popular big game cartridge in the world since it's inception 100 years ago.

 

Magic word is "you sure won that arguement, but you sure missed the point"

[Pandema 352]

DayZ is not a Milsim, end of story.  Once you soldier boys get this out of your head you will finally be able to find solace in knowing that this is not Arma and hopefully cope with this and not cry in the corner anymore.  Myself personally would love this game to be as hard as possible but I am going to take what the developers give me and if I enjoy it, awesome, if I don't, oh well.  Again, if you don't like the fact that they don't add every single caliber known to man in the game, wait until mods are released and slap it on your server. 

 

Caboose, isn't the point of opening an alpha/beta to the public so that we can have a say and what happens? So we don't have to take what we're given?

 

Why bother participating in a alpha/beta if we're expected to shut up, sit down, and smile pretty?

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Caboose, isn't the point of opening an alpha/beta to the public so that we can have a say and what happens? So we don't have to take what we're given?

 

Why bother participating in a alpha/beta if we're expected to shut up, sit down, and smile pretty?

To find bugs not demand features

[ratiasu@hotmail.co.jp 122]

Disappointing. I liked storing ammo for my possible next gun in the mod. At least make it a server option! I'd rather they move .45 ammo and colts to heli crashes then.

[Bruce of Wayne 81]

So, ever since Chris Torchia's statement, this has been a topic of great discussion here on the forums, but I have not seen a poll on it, so I made one. I for one think all weapons should fire the correct ammo. If not, it will really bother me. How about you guys?

[kichilron 8550]

So, ever since Chris Torchia's statement, this has been a topic of great discussion here on the forums, but I have not seen a poll on it, so I made one. I for one think all weapons should fire the correct ammo. If not, it will really bother me. How about you guys?

 

Merged, left poll.

Edited June 3, 2014 by kichilron

[Katana67 2907]

Well, I think the poll is, like the OP... inadequate. For me, it's not about whether they fire realistic calibers... but that they fire a relatively diverse number of calibers.

 

As I've said before on this thread. You can't really have a round like 7.62x51 NATO be so ubiquitous as to be used on everything from a break-action pistol... to a double rifle... to a bolt-action hunting rifle... to a battle rifle/DMR... to a "high-end" sniper rifle... to a GPMG and still balance the rarity of the weapon-ammunition relationship.

 

If you make the round common, you're making the use of "rare" weapons easy. If you make the round rare, you're screwing over the common weapons in which it is used.

 

I voted yes, because I feel having rounds be "realistic" is a way of including more calibers overall. But, as I've outlined in my proposal, I'm more than willing to propose/consider compromises to "realism" in order to facilitate the stated developmental goals.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Katana67

[pycco 38]

Merged, left poll.

finally thank you so much i would give more beans but ya know.

[finnpalm 312]

Why does it always have to be black and white with you guys?

 

Why can't there be a middle road?

 

There needs to be some sort of limitation on shooting in the game. So either fewer different weapons that are hard to find, but ammo that will pretty much always fit, or plenty of different weapons that are fairly easy to find but with different types of ammo. Otherwise it will be even more of a shoot fest than it is now.

 

However, this is a sliding scale in my opinion. You can adjust the amount of different guns you'd like in the game and as they increase you can introduce more calibers or if the amount of different guns decrease you can have more "universal" ammo.

 

If there will be plenty of different guns in the game, make sure there are several low to medium powered guns (shotguns, hunting rifles, old ww rifles, pistols and revolvers) of which some share ammo type. And in the same way make sure the higher powered gun models (assault rifles, machine guns, sniper rifles) use different types of ammo.

 

I think that would be the best formula to follow. Just decide on the value of X.

 

It's just a matter of deciding on how many different guns we want in the game and then decide on the ammo from there.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Why does it always have to be black and white with you guys?

 

Why can't there be a middle road?

 

There needs to be some sort of limitation on shooting in the game. So either fewer different weapons that are hard to find, but ammo that will pretty much always fit, or plenty of different weapons that are fairly easy to find but with different types of ammo. Otherwise it will be even more of a shoot fest than it is now.

 

However, this is a sliding scale in my opinion. You can adjust the amount of different guns you'd like in the game and as they increase you can introduce more calibers or if the amount of different guns decrease you can have more "universal" ammo.

 

If there will be plenty of different guns in the game, make sure there are several low to medium powered guns (shotguns, hunting rifles, old ww rifles, pistols and revolvers) of which some share ammo type. And in the same way make sure the higher powered gun models (assault rifles, machine guns, sniper rifles) use different types of ammo.

 

I think that would be the best formula to follow. Just decide on the value of X.

 

It's just a matter of deciding on how many different guns we want in the game and then decide on the ammo from there.

Because in reality.......

[Bine (DayZ) 2]

In my opinion they really really should just group guns into classifications. Mosin-Rifle. Uses rifle ammunition. Blaze-Rifle. Uses Rifle ammunition. Then ammo woul dbe a lot less obtuse to new users who aren't a gun nut. They don't need to throw all thos extra information at  you unless they want it to be in the flavor text.
 

If they want ammo types like 9mm and whatnot they really really should just go the whole distance. Make ammo a common occurence. The problem? Finding the right types to fit the guns you need. Just... the guns need to be REALLY clear about what ammo they use then.

 

There should not be any middle ground here.

[Katana67 2907]

In my opinion they really really should just group guns into classifications. Mosin-Rifle. Uses rifle ammunition. Blaze-Rifle. Uses Rifle ammunition. Then ammo woul dbe a lot less obtuse to new users who aren't a gun nut. They don't need to throw all thos extra information at  you unless they want it to be in the flavor text

 

Flavor text sounds fine to me.

 

But honestly, it ain't rocket science. You don't need to be a gun nut to know that 12 gauge won't fit in an M1911.

 

It's not that complicated. And plus, DayZ has never had to cater to "new users."

[sloasdaylight 129]

Because in reality.......

 

You'll find birdshot, hollow points, frangible ammo, hot loads, cold loads, reloaded ammo, slugs, buckshot, Blazes chambered in different calibers, revolvers chambered in different calibers, 10ga shotguns, 410 shotguns inaccurate sights, ruined ammunition, shell casings, impenetrable gun safes, ruined and rusted guns, etc. Oh yea, and no zombies.

 

There must be a balance reached between realism and a playable experience.

[pilgrim* 3514]

there has never been such a thing as a 'rare' gun on DayZ since the beginnings of the mod

[liquidsnake 275]

there has never been such a thing as a 'rare' gun on DayZ since the beginnings of the mod

Yes there has been. If I only find 2 SVD camo rifles, 2 M240 LMGs, 1 AT-4 rocket launcher and 3 M107s, since the beginning of the mod until now, I'd most definitely call them rare. There were just many duplicators/hackers who'd make certain weapons plentiful. Have you ever found a lot of AT-4 rocket launchers or  M240 GPMGs? Those weren't popular amongst hackers, so chances are they were actually rare, unlike the AS50.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

There must be a balance reached between realism and a playable experience.

There will be.  They will be called Mods.  

[Daemonkid 493]

Yes there has been. If I only find 2 SVD camo rifles, 2 M240 LMGs, 1 AT-4 rocket launcher and 3 M107s, since the beginning of the mod until now, I'd most definitely call them rare. There were just many duplicators/hackers who'd make certain weapons plentiful. Have you ever found a lot of AT-4 rocket launchers or  M240 GPMGs? Those weren't popular amongst hackers, so chances are they were actually rare, unlike the AS50.

I've been shot at by AT-4 by hackers before. They just prefer the AS50 because they think they're uber leet snipers. But indeed, you are correct, the At-4 I never saw, ever beyond that one instance, and the M240, I found quite a few, just never liked it very much.

[Katana67 2907]

Either way, rarity is relative.

 

Things like M107s and AS50s, on paper, spawned at a lower rate than Enfields. Thus, they were less-likely to be encountered. That doesn't mean that seeing the AS50 wasn't an everyday occurance (owing to things like duping, hacking, and cross-server characters) but it was rare in relation to other weapons.

 

Likewise, simply because weapons weren't all that rare in the mod doesn't mean they CAN'T BE in standalone.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Katana67

[sloasdaylight 129]

I've been shot at by AT-4 by hackers before. They just prefer the AS50 because they think they're uber leet snipers. But indeed, you are correct, the At-4 I never saw, ever beyond that one instance, and the M240, I found quite a few, just never liked it very much.

 

My group had like 5 M240s. We had 1 AS50 though, and believe it or not 1 M24. We had like 15 M4 CCO SDs though.

 

We had really weird luck with loot.

[pilgrim* 3514]

Yes there has been. If I only find 2 SVD camo rifles, 2 M240 LMGs, 1 AT-4 rocket launcher and 3 M107s, since the beginning of the mod until now, I'd most definitely call them rare. There were just many duplicators/hackers who'd make certain weapons plentiful. Have you ever found a lot of AT-4 rocket launchers or  M240 GPMGs? Those weren't popular amongst hackers, so chances are they were actually rare, unlike the AS50.

 

you find these weapons at NWA - except the SVD you find at helicrashes. Every second or third helicrash there are 2 SVD Camos lying around, left by players who already passed through and didn't want them.

Edited June 4, 2014 by pilgrim