Weapon accuracies

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

My assumption is that much of the dispersion is meant to balance the full auto fire.

 

But poor shots and bad players will piss and moan endlessly about how the game works against them.

You mean you can't fire 30-60 rounds full auto from an M4 and hit dead center with every shot?  You sir fail at life  ;)

[taco86 156]

I just want a bit of consistency....  If the devs want weapons to have worse accuracy than their real world counterparts (within reason), i'm fine with it, so long as it's applied relatively equally.

[-Gews- 7443]

Btw I assume it's on 100m right?

 

I was just comparing to each other, not at a certain distance... but those dispersion examples are at about 25 meters!

 

Here is a crazy idea: We all know we are in alpha right? could it be that gun specs are not set in stone yet and that whatever values they have are there to test the attachment system?

 

After all dispersion values are just a couple of numbers in a config file, at this stage of the game, as long as it work as intended, who care about the actual values in it? (beside those expecting a playable experience that is)

 

In test builds i myself have on several occasions used grossly exaggerated values to ensure that the equation it is fed into behave as expected.

 

They are never set in stone; doesn't mean there's no point discussing it.

 

 

so long as it's applied relatively equally.

 

That is the key...

[cpo1bishop 44]

M4A1 all Magpul = 0.0020072

This figure seems more accurate for single shots. I've had repeatable results between 700-900m where I've had a chance to set up the shot using only the RV1 RDS/all Magpul.

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

A lot of people seem to think dispersion is to balance automatic fire, hahaha, no.

 

If you fire one shot while set to full auto, it is wildly inaccurate, despite the fact you're only firing one shot. Recoil, sway, and not being able to control the gun should make fully automatic unreliable for precision, not dispersion rates.

[Katana67 2907]

A lot of people seem to think dispersion is to balance automatic fire, hahaha, no.

 

If you fire one shot while set to full auto, it is wildly inaccurate, despite the fact you're only firing one shot. Recoil, sway, and not being able to control the gun should make fully automatic unreliable for precision, not dispersion rates.

 

That and dispersion affects single-shot just as well. It's not like single-shot automatically gets rid of the dispersion.

 

In fact, it's far more intrusive on semi-automatic, because you're trying to make each shot count... and land where you want it... by doing the right things... like managing sway, recoil, lead and the like... and the game's basically giving you the middle finger for no reason by playing ping-pong with your rounds as they fly downrange.

 

Dispersion is not only detrimental (if highly noticeable or prohibitive at reasonable ranges), it's unnecessary. If a player is inaccurate, he or she will ALREADY be inaccurate. If a player is accurate, he or she is ALREADY accurate. There's no reason to screw folks over who're good. Nothing needs to be simulated, at least in terms of prowess/ineptitude. A player is ALREADY either good or bad at shooting, or somewhere in between.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Katana67

[-Gews- 7443]

That's nicely and practically shown dispersion.

I vote that fron now on, you give us such pictures for each gun!

 

Here, I drew up this. Missing the AKM for now.

 

Edited May 24, 2014 by Gews

[scriptfactory 620]

 

Here, I drew up this. Missing the AKM for now.

 ...

 

So a fully-loaded (Magpul) M4 is the second most accurate weapon?

[-Gews- 7443]

So a fully-loaded (Magpul) M4 is the second most accurate weapon?

Third. I don't count bipods because they only work when prone.

1. compensated Mosin, AKM = 0?

2. 10/22 = 0.0019

3. Magpul M4 with suppressor = 0.0019072

[gibonez 3633]

 

Here, I drew up this. Missing the AKM for now.

 

 

 

good stuff man post this on reddit.

[hotcakes 348]

Third. I don't count bipods because they only work when prone.

1. compensated Mosin, AKM = 0?

2. 10/22 = 0.0019

3. Magpul M4 with suppressor = 0.0019072

 

I didn't know the AKM took compensators. It already has one. 

Edited May 25, 2014 by hotcakes

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Oh my that 25m grouping with M4. Add bayonet and RIS hadguard and the spread is huuuge. If a man can't hit a standing target from 25m then the guy is blind or the gun has some very serious issues.

[Tiger205 48]

So can anyone tell me what was rocket's reasoning behind this absolutely retarded idea of parts having mmolike stats? What does ergonomics have to with accuracy - because as far as I'm concerned real life magpul parts only affect ergonomics of a weapon, NOT it's performance. On one hand there's stuff like shitting and pissing because muh realism and on the other is this genius idea which has nothing to do with realism.

[terminal_boy 860]

So can anyone tell me what was rocket's reasoning behind this absolutely retarded idea of parts having mmolike stats? What does ergonomics have to with accuracy - because as far as I'm concerned real life magpul parts only affect ergonomics of a weapon, NOT it's performance. On one hand there's stuff like shitting and pissing because muh realism and on the other is this genius idea which has nothing to do with realism.

Succinctly put. Have some beans.

[cuddly_rabbit 102]

 

Here, I drew up this. Missing the AKM for now.

 

Cool chart.

Now adjust the combat ranges to realistic levels, as hinted at here.

These are "perfectly aimed shots".

And I do not see a fighting distance of over 260 meters, which - tbh - still sounds far. I remember shooting the "lying infantryman target" at 250 m and that was definitly more towards the maximum range of a G3 with ironsights.

Taking into account that our character is no trained person and that not even trained persons shoot perfectly, I would say:

 

• Limit effective combat distances (for rifles) to below 100 m
• We should be able to hit players almost certainly at 50 m
• Everything above 200 meters has to be very hard to hit
• Above that, it should be next to impossible to hit anything.
• The Mosin does not look as if it was useful material for a long range sniper rifle when going by that chart. Let's get rid of all these 300m+ shots. They add nothing to the game anyway but lolwuttism. In the DayZ scenario, there is no reason to lie in the forest and snipe the people running around in the city. It's harmful for gameplay, so do something against it.
• and: delete the weapons' attachments completely or keep them as only cosmetic things for our beloved mil-geeks. It's just silly in a survival game that you have to go for a Magpull-whatever specifically. The only reasonable spawn for this kind of specialised equipment is "with a weapon you find" or in an armoury. Mosin compensators aren't found in a bar, on a table :D

[Tiger205 48]

So you just want artificial modifiers like right now to make weapons innacurate even further. That'll totally fix things!

[hombrecz 832]

I didn't know the AKM took compensators. It already has one. 

 

No, he ment Mosin with compensator, you can't fix one on AKM.

Although I can see no reason why you could not swap a different one on AKM, provided it's correct size and such.

[gibonez 3633]

 

Cool chart.

Now adjust the combat ranges to realistic levels, as hinted at here.

These are "perfectly aimed shots".

And I do not see a fighting distance of over 260 meters, which - tbh - still sounds far. I remember shooting the "lying infantryman target" at 250 m and that was definitly more towards the maximum range of a G3 with ironsights.

Taking into account that our character is no trained person and that not even trained persons shoot perfectly, I would say:

 

• Limit effective combat distances (for rifles) to below 100 m
• We should be able to hit players almost certainly at 50 m
• Everything above 200 meters has to be very hard to hit
• Above that, it should be next to impossible to hit anything.
• The Mosin does not look as if it was useful material for a long range sniper rifle when going by that chart. Let's get rid of all these 300m+ shots. They add nothing to the game anyway but lolwuttism. In the DayZ scenario, there is no reason to lie in the forest and snipe the people running around in the city. It's harmful for gameplay, so do something against it.
• and: delete the weapons' attachments completely or keep them as only cosmetic things for our beloved mil-geeks. It's just silly in a survival game that you have to go for a Magpull-whatever specifically. The only reasonable spawn for this kind of specialised equipment is "with a weapon you find" or in an armoury. Mosin compensators aren't found in a bar, on a table :D

 

 

 

ughhh god no.

[terminal_boy 860]

No, he ment Mosin with compensator, you can't fix one on AKM.

Although I can see no reason why you could not swap a different one on AKM, provided it's correct size and such.

Might be something to do with the AKM having one fitted as standard?

As compensators are designed for specific weapons, barrel lengths and rounds; you can't make them plug and play.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Terminal Boy

[Fuddinator 18]

On my phone so I can't quote but limiting engagement distances to 100m or under is a really bad idea. Have you gone outside and looked 200m? It really isn't that far. Many of the open fields in Chernarus are well over 200m. This game isn't CoD or Battlefield. A weapon such as the M4 that is stock with standard mil spec parts can easily engage targets at 300m+ with iron sights. A lot of us talking about weapon accuracy don't want laser beams, just realistic accuracy that is consistent with the platform and weapon condition. Most factory m4s with mil-spec 5.56 55gr or 62gr bullets is capable of around 2-3 MOA in most cases. Some worse accurate, some much better. To put this in perspective, at 400m a 3 MOA rifle, if the shooter has good aim and trigger control, will hit within a 12in circle. Just because we have realistically accurate weapons doesn't mean you are going to get sniped across the map every 10 min. Even in the Mod, a lot of people missed shots, even ones they should have made. Having dispersion as it sits punishes the player who has calm nerves, good mouse control, good mouse precision, good zeroing, right holdover, perfert target lead, and good timing with a shot that goes wild like college girls in cancun on spring break. For those worried about having weapons too accurate, look back at the mod. Very few times did I get sniped that I felt cheated. If I ran across an open field in straight line and got sniped, I deserved it. If I stopped moving in a hangar on the airfield or firestation and got sniped, I deserved it. There was also plenty of times I was stopped and got sniped at with as50s and they blew their shot and had me dead rights. I reacted and escaped 99% of the time. If you play smart and a few basic tactics, accurate weapons should never be a problem.

[eleventhavenue 204]

Is it this discussion again?

 

Make weapons realistically accurate, and make them actually be hard to aim with.

 

You then get more realism, more skill-based gunplay and higher/same/lower weapon accuracy. Problem solved.

[xalienax 621]

Is it this discussion again?

 

Make weapons realistically accurate, and make them actually be hard to aim with.

 

You then get more realism, more skill-based gunplay and higher/same/lower weapon accuracy. Problem solved.

this is what we all want. full ballistics, wind, sway, etc. not exaggerated "random dispersion" to blance gameplay. the only balancing factor should be the skill of the person at the keyboard, bar none.

[hombrecz 832]

Might be something to do with the AKM having one fitted as standard?

As compensators are designed for specific weapons, barrel lengths and rounds; you can't make them plug and play.

 

You can switch compensator on AKM, that is without any doubt. 

I'm just not sure, how much of a work that is.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

So can anyone tell me what was rocket's reasoning behind this absolutely retarded idea of parts having mmolike stats? What does ergonomics have to with accuracy - because as far as I'm concerned real life magpul parts only affect ergonomics of a weapon, NOT it's performance. On one hand there's stuff like shitting and pissing because muh realism and on the other is this genius idea which has nothing to do with realism.

It's his game and he does whatever the hell he wants with it?

[irl-calibre 744]

what's really the difference though between it being modeled accurately instead of a percentage chance of deviation being added to each bullet fired?

Edited May 25, 2014 by Calibre