Weapon accuracies

[infiltrator 275]

Well, they seem to be going with something with the AKM, weapon has (god awful, clippy) sway but very little dispersion AFAIK.

[Munson_fry (DayZ) 312]

If you think any random value from 0-50 MOA is fine, all the more power to you... me, I'm with those who think a pristine M4A1 should be more accurate than a ruined AKM. There is such a thing as having standards.

as always ON SPOT !

[PhillyT 554]

If you think any random value from 0-50 MOA is fine, all the more power to you... me, I'm with those who think a pristine M4A1 should be more accurate than a ruined AKM. There is such a thing as having standards.

If you think that will remain true on stable or final release, you don't have standards, you have a critical lack of basic knowledge.

[gibonez 3633]

If you think that will remain true on stable or final release, you don't have standards, you have a critical lack of basic knowledge.

What makes you so optimistic that this will change?

This huge variance in accuracy seems to be a gameplay feature not a placeholder addition.

[PhillyT 554]

Because the akm doesn't have that issue?

If you think the values aren't temporary, stop playing because you aren't part of the solution.

Or cry.

[Valadain 270]

Because the akm doesn't have that issue?

If you think the values aren't temporary, stop playing because you aren't part of the solution.

Or cry.

 

I must have missed the part of the Early Alpha language that said participation is to be "shut up and hope for the best". I'm fairly certain that isn't the position of BI. I'm fairly certain they like to get feedback about what they are actually developing.

 

I personally don't think the values are "placeholders". I think they are part of experimentation. Since they already have good access to realistic numbers to put in here, it means that they are likely rejecting realism towards some goal that involves somewhat unrealistic numbers. I personally don't care for that and am making that opinion known as a participant in the Early Access Alpha.

[sloasdaylight 129]

Because the akm doesn't have that issue?

If you think the values aren't temporary, stop playing because you aren't part of the solution.

Or cry.

 

The AKM also doesn't have any additional attachments you must find and use in order for the weapon to be worth a damn. It seems like it's a gameplay mechanic they're trying to implement with regard to the M4A1.

[PhillyT 554]

I must have missed the part of the Early Alpha language that said participation is to be "shut up and hope for the best". I'm fairly certain that isn't the position of BI. I'm fairly certain they like to get feedback about what they are actually developing.

 

I personally don't think the values are "placeholders". I think they are part of experimentation. Since they already have good access to realistic numbers to put in here, it means that they are likely rejecting realism towards some goal that involves somewhat unrealistic numbers. I personally don't care for that and am making that opinion known as a participant in the Early Access Alpha.

 

You think BI is unaware of the vocal group complaining about the M4 dispersion?  Gibonez alone has probably hit 1000 posts just on the topic.  If they don't know there is a vocal minority complaining about the current values, they don't read anything on this forum.

 

All of the numbers are open to interpretation.  The manner in which they adjust and implement weapon effects has multiple methods to achieve a "realistic" behavior.

 

The AKM is marginally less accurate than the M4 in real life.  The fact that it was added with excellent accuracy out of the box (with the secondary stock) is a good indicator that they are playing with numbers.  More likely, they just haven't bothered to mess with the M4 since introduction because it remains the best gun in the game.

 

And anyone saying it needs MAGPUL parts to be useful is pretty crap at this game.

[infiltrator 275]

And anyone saying it needs MAGPUL parts to be useful is pretty crap at this game.

 

The M4 is of limited use at best without MP parts, one just needs to look at the dispersion values to figure that one out. Given an ACOG and Magpul, it can beat any other weapon barring a mosin+LRS past 400m.

 

The AKM is obviously a contender now, but we'll have to see how they balance the guns in the forthcoming updates, I am honestly hoping that they reduce the dispersion to a minimum for all guns, and introduce stronger sway based on fatigue and stance instead.

[scriptfactory 620]

The M4 is of limited use at best without MP parts, one just needs to look at the dispersion values to figure that one out.

The M4 is equal to (or better than) all other weapons even with stock parts. As soon as you add MP parts it becomes the best weapon in the game.

[Fuddinator 18]

The M4 is equal to (or better than) all other weapons even with stock parts. As soon as you add MP parts it becomes the best weapon in the game.

 Are you smoking crack?

 

In all seriousness, I don't bother picking up an M4 unless I already have both MP parts on hand or close by. I find the SKS a much better and well rounded weapon compared to the stock M4, which shouldn't be the case. Also since M4s only spawn at heli crashes now on exp, there is no reason to not make the M4 much more realistic in its accuracy.

[scriptfactory 620]

 Are you smoking crack?

 

In all seriousness, I don't bother picking up an M4 unless I already have both MP parts on hand or close by. I find the SKS a much better and well rounded weapon compared to the stock M4, which shouldn't be the case. Also since M4s only spawn at heli crashes now on exp, there is no reason to not make the M4 much more realistic in its accuracy.

 

I haven't actually tried crack but I haven't heard good things.

Have you ever used a stock M4 or are you looking at dispersion numbers? I have no problems killing other survivors. It is more useful than a B95 and all shotguns. It does more damage than a Sporter with same or higher magazine capacity. The SKS is a decent weapon but its limited ammo capabilities cause me problems with facing more than 3 opponents (I lone wolf.) The Mosin is more accurate but close range there is no comparison. I will kill you with an M4 every time. The crossbow is a joke with its stupidly slow reload time. The AKM is overpowered (from what I can see on Experimental.)

Did I forget something?

[Fuddinator 18]

I have used it plenty in stock form. Anything beyond around 70m and it is probably the best gun and only within that range. It is not because it is accurate that it rules CQB, just the mag size and RPM. Sure I can kill someone at 100m, but how many bullets will it take? 20? 30? 60? So instead of dealing with the frustration of missing shots that I should have made, I use a gun that has better accuracy and more usability beyond 50m. Sure if you spend all day in the streets of Berenzino, where everyone is in your face 40 MoA is not as bad.  Anything beyond that it down right sucks.  Try using it in more open areas outside of cities and it doesn't nearly hold up.

 

TL;DR I can't effectively engagement players effectively out to 300m with stock M4 as is IRL, Arma 2, and ACE mod

[infiltrator 275]

I have used it plenty in stock form. Anything beyond around 70m and it is probably the best gun and only within that range. It is not because it is accurate that it rules CQB, just the mag size and RPM. Sure I can kill someone at 100m, but how many bullets will it take? 20? 30? 60? So instead of dealing with the frustration of missing shots that I should have made, I use a gun that has better accuracy and more usability beyond 50m. Sure if you spend all day in the streets of Berenzino, where everyone is in your face 40 MoA is not as bad.  Anything beyond that it down right sucks.  Try using it in more open areas outside of cities and it doesn't nearly hold up.

 

TL;DR I can't effectively engagement players effectively out to 300m with stock M4 as is IRL, Arma 2, and ACE mod

 

Killed 4 people at 200 meters, all single bullets to the head. Stationary, but still, this gun can be used at moderate ranges easily. Haven't tried further off just yet.

[Fuddinator 18]

Were you using a bipod? Was it stock as found? If it was truly stock and no bipod, the RNG gods smile upon thee.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

We don't even know what those numbers are suppose to represent as I have never seen a non pristine weapon.  Perhaps the dispersion is more for weapon condition and it's not representing it properly. As in it's representing a a badly damaged gun instead of a pristine one.  A lot of those numbers are very much subject to change at some point and hopefully the devs can give an actual explanation on why they even use dispersion.

[hotcakes 348]

We don't even know what those numbers are suppose to represent as I have never seen a non pristine weapon.  Perhaps the dispersion is more for weapon condition and it's not representing it properly. As in it's representing a a badly damaged gun instead of a pristine one.  A lot of those numbers are very much subject to change at some point and hopefully the devs can give an actual explanation on why they even use dispersion.

Weapon condition currently does not affect ballistics yet, but here's how you get damaged weapons:

Have a weapon you can put in your inventory

Get shot

 

Practically the only way to get non-pristine weapons. I've fired a worn magnum before and there was nothing special about it. This is the only scenario a weapon cleaning kit would help, it'll up your gun's health so it won't get shot to ruined so easily.

Edited June 3, 2014 by hotcakes

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

Weapon condition currently does not affect ballistics yet, but here's how you get damaged weapons:

Have a weapon you can put in your inventory

Get shot

 

Practically the only way to get non-pristine weapons. I've fired a worn magnum before and there was nothing special about it. This is the only scenario a weapon cleaning kit would help, it'll up your gun's health so it won't get shot to ruined so easily.

That wasn't my point.  The argument about dispersion is ridiculous due to the fact we don't even know why they use it.  Is it suppose to represent civilians using fire arms?  Is it suppose to represent weapon condition?  No questions have been answered that I've been able to find.  If you've got a link I'd be happy to read they reason.

[hotcakes 348]

That wasn't my point.  The argument about dispersion is ridiculous due to the fact we don't even know why they use it.  Is it suppose to represent civilians using fire arms?  Is it suppose to represent weapon condition?  No questions have been answered that I've been able to find.  If you've got a link I'd be happy to read they reason.

 

I bet my beans it's for "balance." You can tell by the design choices.

 

Rocket chose the M4 instead of the M16 and made the stock M4 inaccurate. The M4 cannot mount an LRS.

The nugget is the sniper archetype for whatever reason and can mount scopes with no rail installation,

Some of the guns are bloody stopgaps, whilst others are upgrades (see SKS vs AKM)

 

For example, most of the pistols have a dispersion of 0.03. .357 does the same damage as .45 ACP, so statistically speaking the FNX45 is the best pistol because of its cartridge, magazine size, and attachments. I didn't look at recoil and ignored the longhorn because it's breech-loading. 

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

I bet my beans it's for "balance." You can tell by the design choices.

 

Rocket chose the M4 instead of the M16 and made the stock M4 inaccurate. The M4 cannot mount an LRS.

The nugget is the sniper archetype for whatever reason and can mount scopes with no rail installation,

Some of the guns are bloody stopgaps, whilst others are upgrades (see SKS vs AKM)

 

For example, most of the pistols have a dispersion of 0.03. .357 does the same damage as .45 ACP, so statistically speaking the FNX45 is the best pistol because of its cartridge, magazine size, and attachments. I didn't look at recoil and ignored the longhorn because it's breech-loading. 

Again you are not looking at what those numbers mean and are for.  You can guess until you are blue in the face but at this early stage in development where items and weapons are still going to be added, complaining about those numbers is pointless until they balance everything out.  Everyone keeps yammering on like that is the complete package of what we are seeing.  And I'll bet you all my beans that the developers are aware of those numbers but they are so low on the priority list that they aren't adjusting anything until they have what they needed added into the game.

[bauertschi 254]

...

Practically the only way to get non-pristine weapons. I've fired a worn magnum before and there was nothing special about it. This is the only scenario a weapon cleaning kit would help, it'll up your gun's health so it won't get shot to ruined so easily.

 

That's interesting info! I only ever had pristine weapons, after getting shot at the guns in my inventory either were still pristine or they were ruined. Did you try a weapon cleaning kit? I guess the kit only gets them up to worn though.

[scriptfactory 620]

That's interesting info! I only ever had pristine weapons, after getting shot at the guns in my inventory either were still pristine or they were ruined. Did you try a weapon cleaning kit? I guess the kit only gets them up to worn though.

 

I have never had a damaged firearm in DayZ. Only Ruined or Pristine. The Weapon Cleaning Kit doesn't work on Ruined weapons sooo... it probably only gets them up to worn but I am not sure.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Again you are not looking at what those numbers mean and are for.  You can guess until you are blue in the face but at this early stage in development where items and weapons are still going to be added, complaining about those numbers is pointless until they balance everything out.  Everyone keeps yammering on like that is the complete package of what we are seeing.  And I'll bet you all my beans that the developers are aware of those numbers but they are so low on the priority list that they aren't adjusting anything until they have what they needed added into the game.

It's not like they're all that complicated to fix. Sure, getting true-to-life accuracy values may be annoying, but adding a 0 after the decimal in 0.1 is not that hard. They may be waiting for environmental factors such as wind/rain, but I don't see why the M4 needs to be entirely replaced by the AKM in terms of usefulness, as all they've done now is limited the spawning of it and its attachments to crash sites. The only time we'll ever see M4s being used until something is done about it will be on people who have retained their gear and customized M4s, because I highly doubt anyone's going to give up the much more common and accurate AKM for the musket-like M4.

[gibonez 3633]

That wasn't my point. The argument about dispersion is ridiculous due to the fact we don't even know why they use it. Is it suppose to represent civilians using fire arms? Is it suppose to represent weapon condition? No questions have been answered that I've been able to find. If you've got a link I'd be happy to read they reason.

I always assumed it was to give value to the accessories.

With out unrealistic dispersion rates determined by what attachments are on the weapon magpul parts and such would be purely cosmetic.

[sloasdaylight 129]

I always assumed it was to give value to the accessories.

With out unrealistic dispersion rates determined by what attachments are on the weapon magpul parts and such would be purely cosmetic.

 

And most people would probably have gone with the RIS hanguard, like I initially did, because it looks a hell of a lot cooler than the Magpul hanguard. Not to mention flashlight, for when I'm feeling frisky on nighttime servers.