Realistic player identification

[xalienax 621]

-snip-

I really like this. I am a full-time PvP player. i enjoy the thrill of an ambush, the higher risk/reward ratio of engaging players over loot farming when ever possible. this is pretty much what i want, because i think thats more realistic apart from what many people want to think. the post-apocalypse would be mouch more like clanwars/faction wars. people are going to band together around a common thread; rather thats mere survival, religion, background, or a quest for some sort of power (see: warloards). in a real apocalypse it wouldnt be a 24/7 frag fest in downtown bero- itd be this group has living in compoound A, another in compund B, maber in some smaller cities the enitre thing has been walled off! attacking these factional strong-holds would be very high risk-reward ratio.

 

This would also lead to more ambushes and trying to hold up people transporting good to and from compounds.

[FrostDMG 398]

Ah ok, thanks for clarifying.

[ZomboWTF 527]

I was referring to an event when Day Z progresses beyond the murder-KOS-filled fuckfest it currently is, and becomes more of a survival/society-rebuilding simulator.

As of right now, the survival scenario (no shelters, only canned food, etc) presented in the Standalone is very "unstable", and wouldn't last more than a couple of weeks in a real-life SHTF-type event.  After that, people would either band together in order to farm food/steal said food, or starve to death. 

I've touched on this topic many times before. Look my responses up to see just how unrealistic current Day Z standalone is.

..

Believe it or not, the Epoch mod is pretty much how it would go down in real life, and something similar to that (without AI traders, them being replaced by actual players) with added agriculture (somehow) would be something I would eventually like to see the standalone becoming.

 

And yes, that is pretty much what I would expect a member of a newly-formed community to say,

"Yeah, last night a bunch of guys came down from the road to the north. They took most of our crops and killed all of our animals, and said they would do it again if we didn't pay up. I think they were from that bandit gang that we heard about from some travelling merchants the other day. If you wipe them out, we will be really grateful, and give you a safe place to sleep/good prices for goods/free food and medical aid/money per bandit head/what have you"

 

Boom. Realism, and a reason/reward for PvP!

 

in that regard, you would need basebuilding plus private hives, because nothing is worse than server migration for permanent base-building

and maybe then will you have any chance of this becoming reality

 

the problem with that is, that you can easily survive without farming, base-building and just stealing from others, and you can change your ingame name,

suddenly be the friendliest hero guy on earth when a few minutes ago you were a KoS psychopath

 

Epoch is pretty much a killfest right now, even worse KoS than standalone, just with bases and helicopters, and bulletproof SUVs with miniguns on top O.o

[scriptfactory 620]

I think if they added an in-depth character creator at the beginning of your life similar to EVE online or Skyrim with thousands of potential variations the odds of any 2 players being "identical" would be slim. this combined with Fortifications, i could see clans, especially RP focused one walling off parts of town and forcing approacing survivors to "reval them selves" before being allowed in. could make for interesting gameplay. main issue i see is the amount of time (diverted from other items/priorities) that would need to be dedicate into creating new, highly detailed player models and the system to create them.

 

Aditionally, while not diminishing more traditonal PvP at all, it would set the tone for a new life on a new character being forced to go thru creating your character each life. that few minutes spent there also pretty much rules out running back to your body and continuing to have a meat grinder style death match within a few blocks, almost like BF3 or CoD style. anyone spening more then a few mins in bero on a populated server knows what i mean about  that.

 

I get what you are trying to say but humans cannot easily recognize other humans based on their virtual avatar. Even with an advanced character creation system people would just need to die and respawn to get away from the stigma of being a griefer. In fact, they could simply spoof the look of other players which is impossible in real life. This is not an option for realistic player identification, in my opinion.

 

If something like Polaroids was added you could even "take pictures" of the faction armbands Rocket was talking about to place a bounty on a whole clan. An in-game mechanic is necessary for this to work as the problem is not the virtual avatar but rather the asshole that is controlling him. XD

[louist 163]

On stable DayZ mod servers you do see this kind of community-building. I've mentioned it a few times before, and I will again. When you have a group of people who regularly play on the same server, you see a mellowing of KoS in favor of more balanced interaction. You get to know people, their habits, attitudes, and play-styles. There are people who I will go out of my way to help out (because they've proven themselves to be cool people, or they've helped me out before. There are others whom I will go out of my way to hunt down, simply because they've shown themselves to be douche bags, or because we've built up a rivalry.

None of that is currently possible in SA, and won't be unless we have some way to indintify people. In the server I play on, it's possible with global chat. Bullshitting with people a few hours each weekend goes a long way towards getting to know them as players. That's not something the majority of people want in SA, or at least the vocal forum dwellers, but it's something that does work.

A possibility I could see working in SA is a short range mouse-over nameplate, that only appears within, say, 8-10 meters, a distance from which you could easily see and recognize a person. Having it mouse-over only simulates scrutizing a person, while having it only work when right next to a person also keeps most people from exploiting it to locate players in hiding. Is it realistic? Not really. But is it any less realistic than having every other player a veritable clone of every other? No. It's just a compromise within the limits of the engine.

[xalienax 621]

in that regard, you would need basebuilding plus private hives, because nothing is worse than server migration for permanent base-building

and maybe then will you have any chance of this becoming reality

 

the problem with that is, that you can easily survive without farming, base-building and just stealing from others, and you can change your ingame name,

suddenly be the friendliest hero guy on earth when a few minutes ago you were a KoS psychopath

 

Epoch is pretty much a killfest right now, even worse KoS than standalone, just with bases and helicopters, and bulletproof SUVs with miniguns on top O.o

you know, now that you bring that up- i never really understood the need for the Hive tbh. Infact, all i've seen it do since the mod is be abused.

 

> Server-Hop farming exists because of it.

> Server-Hopping to Ghost behind someone exists because of it.

> A ganeral lack of comunity due to ther being nothing tieing you to the server.

 

it really doesnt give you anything good for all the opportunities to exploit. you carry your gear over.. so what? you arent directly interacting with the players on other servers. the vast majority of people pick 1 or two servers they like and just play those anyways. also how many people have now come here because their gear/character got deleted/dead because of server problems?

 

individual persistent servers are the way to go imho. go ahead and hop servers and start over from scratch. and if you die to some glitch or bug; well atleast you got your character on that other server right?

[scriptfactory 620]

you know, now that you bring that up- i never really understood the need for the Hive tbh. Infact, all i've seen it do since the mod is be abused.

 

> Server-Hop farming exists because of it.

> Server-Hopping to Ghost behind someone exists because of it.

> A ganeral lack of comunity due to ther being nothing tieing you to the server.

 

it really doesnt give you anything good for all the opportunities to exploit. you carry your gear over.. so what? you arent directly interacting with the players on other servers. the vast majority of people pick 1 or two servers they like and just play those anyways. also how many people have now come here because their gear/character got deleted/dead because of server problems?

 

individual persistent servers are the way to go imho. go ahead and hop servers and start over from scratch. and if you die to some glitch or bug; well atleast you got your character on that other server right?

 

The whole thing that turns DayZ from an online game to an MMO is the public hive. Rocket envisions clans eventually setting up home bases on certain servers and performing raids on other clan servers to get items they need. Servers become like individuals islands in the huge landscape of DayZ.

Server hopping could be easily fixed by expanding on this idea and saving player locations on a per-server basis. Log into a new server and you get a random spawn location. Die and all spawn locations are invalidated. Please note, this also fixes ghosting.

 

Item persistence will be what keeps users tied to a specific server. I guess vehicles and bases will be server-bound.

Edited May 19, 2014 by scriptfactory

[xalienax 621]

The whole thing that turns DayZ from an online game to an MMO is the public hive. Rocket envisions clans eventually setting up home bases on certain servers and performing raids on other clan servers to get items they need. Servers become like individuals islands in the huge landscape of DayZ.

Server hopping could be easily fixed by expanding on this idea and saving player locations on a per-server basis. Log into a new server and you get a random spawn location. Die and all spawn locations are invalidated. Please note, this also fixes ghosting.

 

Item persistence will be what keeps users tied to a specific server. I guess vehicles and bases will be server-bound.

thats even more silly. Im at devils castle already. i want to raid a base located just northwest of the NWAF. go to that server and spawn in wilderness- worse the rest of my clan all over the map? wtf? even if we supposed are raiding this "new islnd" why on earth would we have come here on 10 differen means of transport? not to mention its not like PS2 wehre your changing continents to a whole new landscape or anything, and even if it was it stands to reason you should be moving together.

[scriptfactory 620]

thats even more silly. Im at devils castle already. i want to raid a base located just northwest of the NWAF. go to that server and spawn in wilderness- worse the rest of my clan all over the map? wtf? even if we supposed are raiding this "new islnd" why on earth would we have come here on 10 differen means of transport? not to mention its not like PS2 wehre your changing continents to a whole new landscape or anything, and even if it was it stands to reason you should be moving together.

 

It should be possible for a group of players to spawn at the same (random) location. I believe Rocket posted something on Reddit about possibly allowing friends to spawn together.

Even so, this would require commitment and planning. Want to raid a server? Log in 30 minutes before the raid so you are at the staging location. Plans are given out to the various squads at this secure location (prepared a day ahead of time) and they move out and execute the raid. After the raid is over move to a rendezvous location and wait for "extraction".

Or do you think it is less silly to spawn directly in the middle of an enemy base, kill everyone, steal everything, then logout? This seems much less realistic to me.

Edited May 19, 2014 by scriptfactory

[bfisher 561]

I like the idea of being able to identify players with a tag once you are close enough to see their face (and they aren't wearing a mask).  And you should only be able to name a new character.  That way you get a clean slate when you die so you can opt to play a different style.

 

But a lot of the other suggestions are from the DayZ Fantasy Club.  DayZ isn't Minecraft or Warcraft or EvE Online.  I just don't think it will ever be reasonable to assume the game will ever develop much beyond 40 players running around Cherno eating beans, getting chased by zombies and getting into firefights with other players.  They'll keep making tweaks to the survival mechanics and adding more weapons and gear.  But there's not going to be a "rebuilding of society" with markets, organized towns and an economy and whatnot.  At best you'll just have a few bandit bases where they stow their weapons and vehicles between raids.  Maybe the ability to barricade a structure.  That's about it IMHO.

[xalienax 621]

It should be possible for a group of players to spawn at the same (random) location. I believe Rocket posted something on Reddit about possibly allowing friends to spawn together.

Even so, this would require commitment and planning. Want to raid a server? Log in 30 minutes before the raid so you are at the staging location. Plans are given out to the various squads at this secure location (prepared a day ahead of time) and they move out and execute the raid. After the raid is over move to a rendezvous location and wait for "extraction".

Or do you think it is less silly to spawn directly in the middle of an enemy base, kill everyone, steal everything, then logout? This seems much less realistic to me.

Im okay with the idea of random group spawns actualy. i think you'd have th make it perhaps a bit more fluid then a days notice. EG. you get 20 people togeher, and have a (unlimited in size) group/squad/party server join option. within the normal 30 sec to a minute relog timer you all can group spawn in a random location. basicly as long as your within x-range of squad leader and dont have agression timer you can group join sort of thing.

[charliepow 100]

Basically just need a Sims style face/body customising thing.

[xalienax 621]

I like the idea of being able to identify players with a tag once you are close enough to see their face (and they aren't wearing a mask).  And you should only be able to name a new character.  That way you get a clean slate when you die so you can opt to play a different style.

 

But a lot of the other suggestions are from the DayZ Fantasy Club.  DayZ isn't Minecraft or Warcraft or EvE Online.  I just don't think it will ever be reasonable to assume the game will ever develop much beyond 40 players running around Cherno eating beans, getting chased by zombies and getting into firefights with other players.  They'll keep making tweaks to the survival mechanics and adding more weapons and gear.  But there's not going to be a "rebuilding of society" with markets, organized towns and an economy and whatnot.  At best you'll just have a few bandit bases where they stow their weapons and vehicles between raids.  Maybe the ability to barricade a structure.  That's about it IMHO.

I think people often forget that games like Eve (even tho i like to use it as a bencmark for what an open ended mmo can be) has had 10+ years of constant development with major overhauls in each bi-yearly expansion. on a much more powerful single server, funded by thousands of Subsciribing players.

[scriptfactory 620]

There is no reason DayZ couldn't be similar. I would continue to fund development of the game through purchase of DLC if they would turn it into something that actually feels like a post-apocalyptic survival game.

[Sistinas1973 50]

All we need is a way to target or inspect a player to see their name. Something simple like being able to put the cursor on them and pressing a key that would bring up a small info box. Of course, this would only be feasible if player names were permanent. That way you could view said player from any distance (as long as they are in view) and decide he's the same douche everyone warned you about.

[xalienax 621]

There is no reason DayZ couldn't be similar. I would continue to fund development of the game through purchase of DLC if they would turn it into something that actually feels like a post-apocalyptic survival game.

I actually hate paid DLC, it divides the comunity badly- especially one like dayZ which is based so heavily on being able to either help or harass a sever full of other survivors. one of EvE's great achievements is that ir releases Bi-yearly expansions at no additonal charge beyond your monthly subscription fee. it keeps the company funded, development going, and hosting covered, while meaning everyone gets content on par with full paid DLC twice a year.

Edited May 19, 2014 by Sovetsky

[scriptfactory 620]

I actually hate paid DLC, it divides the comunity badly- especially one like dayZ which is based so heavily on being able to either help or harass a sever full of other survivors. one of EvE's great achievements is that ir releases Bi-yearly expansions at no additonal charge beyond your monthly subscription fee. it keeps the company funded, development going, and hosting covered, while meaning everyone gets content on par with full paid DLC twice a year.

 

I think there are good ways to handle DLC and bad ones. If they released like extra cosmetic content that would be totally doable.

But I get your point. It would kinda' suck if a new map was released with awesome content and only the people who payed for it could access the awesomeness but, honestly, this issue has to be addressed somehow. Development on DayZ will stop entirely if they don't have a way of funding it.

[xalienax 621]

I think there are good ways to handle DLC and bad ones. If they released like extra cosmetic content that would be totally doable.

But I get your point. It would kinda' suck if a new map was released with awesome content and only the people who payed for it could access the awesomeness but, honestly, this issue has to be addressed somehow. Development on DayZ will stop entirely if they don't have a way of funding it.

Modders and private hives. they saved the mod when when BE couldnt stop the hackers, they'll save the SA when BIS is done and theres still several verey different comunities who want the game to go indifferent directions.

[Elgen 9]

Hello.

i can see this thread have changed the subject of the OP.

however, i dont have anything to say to the changing server-problem we have here.

But i may have something to the player-ID dilemma. What if we had static player names ingame? With this you could recognize people when killed with the same name each time if this name was static even through your death.

this would get a huge bonus if we also could customize characters before we play also. Its a lot easier to remember a face with a name rather than a face or a name - if you catch my drift.

To the spawning problem when changing servers, would it be a though to have the map divided into several areas, spawning in the opposite place you logged out? Lets say you are on a server in "zone 1", and decides to hop on another server, instead of spawning right where you logged off, you spawn in "zone 2". Ofcourse you would need the spawning to be random within each zone, but you get the point.

What would be the positives and negatives on this?

Thanks.

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

 

Dont forget BI's way of "doing" DLC's is to release it all to everyone but at a lower sound/texture quality for those who dont wish to purchase.

 

That way even if they add a new continent everyone can still play on it if they want.

 

Rgds

 

LoK 

[bfisher 561]

I actually hate paid DLC, it divides the comunity badly- especially one like dayZ which is based so heavily on being able to either help or harass a sever full of other survivors. one of EvE's great achievements is that ir releases Bi-yearly expansions at no additonal charge beyond your monthly subscription fee. it keeps the company funded, development going, and hosting covered, while meaning everyone gets content on par with full paid DLC twice a year.

 

It will divide the player base into two groups - people who buy DLC and people like me who will kill those people and take their shit for free!

 

As long as it doesn't turn into "pay to start with vehicle, silenced DMR with thermal sight, 50 steaks and a ghillie suit" nonsense that started happening in the Mod.

[Whyherro123 2283]

 

 

But a lot of the other suggestions are from the DayZ Fantasy Club.  DayZ isn't Minecraft or Warcraft or EvE Online.  I just don't think it will ever be reasonable to assume the game will ever develop much beyond 40 players running around Cherno eating beans, getting chased by zombies and getting into firefights with other players.  They'll keep making tweaks to the survival mechanics and adding more weapons and gear.  But there's not going to be a "rebuilding of society" with markets, organized towns and an economy and whatnot.  At best you'll just have a few bandit bases where they stow their weapons and vehicles between raids.  Maybe the ability to barricade a structure.  That's about it IMHO.

Then there is little reason to continue playing, as apparently the game will never progress beyond deathmatching and realism/authenticity gets thrown out the window

[jeffroland 26]

I was on the train today listening to the audiobook of World War Z and I realized why people haven't started self-regulating and building communities like in the book. It is impossible to identify other players.

 

If we were able to actually recognize other players the KoS issue would start to self-regulate. You would see Douchebag McDoucherson randomly killing noobs. You would tell your friends to stay away from this guy. Don't trust him. Eventually communities would form around players that trust each other and are friendly. Bounty hunters would show up to take care of the douchebags.

Right now I can just run into a group of randoms and, if I have the same gear and skin color as everyone else, they will think I am a member of said group. That is totally unrealistic. In real life I remember everyone's face and voice. I also remember if they are a douchebag or not. Conversely, you never know if someone you just met is someone you have encountered in the past since we all look the same.

In my opinion individual player identification is just as necessary as faction/group identification. Perhaps moreso. If there is a KoSer running around fucking with people we should be able to make bounties for him. We should be able to alert the community that this guy is not friendly. Once people are able to paint these guys with a scarlet letter they will calm down or be rejected from communities.

"Name tags" and unchangeable usernames are the easiest way to solve this but I guess many players will be against it. Is there really any way that the devs could pull this off without sacrificing too much immersion? Does any game allow you to identify players based purely on their appearance?

Could this be handled with a tool? Say a notebook on which you "draw" the face of the dude you killed and share these drawings with others. You could later hold the notebook up next to the face of someone before letting him into a secure area. If his face isn't included in your notebook he is good. Otherwise, kill that fool. It could also be used to verify targets for bounties.

This really isn't a suggestion. I just wanted to know what others thought about this.

 

With 2 million registered users and growing, I don't think you'll be able to remember that many names. Hell, I can hardly remember the names of people I've met IRL.

[bfisher 561]

Then there is little reason to continue playing, as apparently the game will never progress beyond deathmatching and realism/authenticity gets thrown out the window

 

I've actually kind of stopped playing.  I may start again in a few months when they add some more stuff.

[Bororm 1156]

One thing that will help is when persistence becomes a thing.  A sense of community doesn't really develop when there's no incentive to stay on a particular server.  There's no sense of reputation if you never see the same people twice.

 

When bases and even tents and loot spawn get added, players will have a motivation to stick to the same servers.  There will always be those who hop but it will go a long way of building a sense of community in the loosest sense.  Then you will begin to recognize players not only by their names but their behavior etc.  This was true especially of private hives in the mod, and I believe it will happen in the SA.

 

We're a ways off from that though, but I agree it is important.  I'd personally rather not see anything as artificial as name tags etc.