No "Specialized" Cartridges [Torchia Tweet]

[Bororm 1156]

Well then I apologize, but the way you initially phrased it didn't read that way =P

You've since clarified however, so again, my apologies.

[Capo 323]

Seems lazy, but hopefully it's just a "for now" kind of thing.

[gibonez 3633]

Seems lazy, but hopefully it's just a "for now" kind of thing.

 

I don't see how its lazy , it just seems logical.

 

Weapons in common calibers tend to be far more widespread and popular than uncommon calibers therefore the likelihood of encountering such a weapon makes more sense.

[Katana67 2907]

I don't see how its lazy , it just seems logical.

 

I don't much care for it being "lazy" or not, it makes sense from an "ease of development" point of view.

 

But how do we reconcile the potential for common cartridges being used in, ostensibly, rare weapons in-game?

 

I mean, if 7.62x51 can be used in everything from a Blaser B95 to an M240, how can they avoid the problems of the mod where ammunition was widely available as to make the use of said rare weapons not really all that rare? You can't short-change the "low-end" weapons by making said ammunition hyper-rare as to justify its use in some of the rarer weapons. But you can't have it be common, as to make the supplying of rare weapons as easy as others.

 

It's no longer the case where ammunition and magazines are one in the same, so ammunition commonality is even more vulnerable now than it was in the mod (until mag splitting was implemented).

 

Needing specific magazines for a weapon sort of mitigates this, as does having to find them separately from the weapon itself. But I just think it's going to be problematic to have a relatively homogenized ammo pool, which stretches from common to hyper rare weapons.

[-Gews- 7443]

What? No 7mm Mashburn Super Magnum? I'm out.

[-Gews- 7443]

But if "exotic" weapons used their nearest common counterpart would that be an issue to you or perfectly acceptable.

 

Ie a Eastern Bloc SMG using "standard" 9mm? Or AN Other Assault rifle using 7.62?

 

Or for example "generalising" all types of shotgun shell to just buck/slug/pellet?

 

Would that be an issue?

 

Would it be an issue if it meant more weapon diversity?

Yes that would be an issue for me. I'd rather have no more guns added, ever, than have them be incorrect.

[gibonez 3633]

I don't much care for it being "lazy" or not, it makes sense from an "ease of development" point of view.

 

But how do we reconcile the potential for common cartridges being used in, ostensibly, rare weapons in-game?

 

I mean, if 7.62x51 can be used in everything from a Blaser B95 to an M240, how can they avoid the problems of the mod where ammunition was widely available as to make the use of said rare weapons not really all that rare? You can't short-change the "low-end" weapons by making said ammunition hyper-rare as to justify its use in some of the rarer weapons. But you can't have it be common, as to make the supplying of rare weapons as easy as others.

 

It's no longer the case where ammunition and magazines are one in the same, so ammunition commonality is even more vulnerable now than it was in the mod (until mag splitting was implemented).

 

Needing specific magazines for a weapon sort of mitigates this, as does having to find them separately from the weapon itself. But I just think it's going to be problematic to have a relatively homogenized ammo pool, which stretches from common to hyper rare weapons.

 

I find ammo to be far more plentiful in stand alone compared to the mod.

 

What? No 7mm Mashburn Super Magnum? I'm out.

 

As long as the 30-06 , 300 win mag and or .243 winchester or 260 winchester make some sort of hunting appearance I will be happy .

[Deathlove 2286]

I find ammo to be far more plentiful in stand alone compared to the mod.

 

 

As long as the 30-06 , 300 win mag and or .243 winchester or 260 winchester make some sort of hunting appearance I will be happy .

Maybe hes referring to Epoch where the gun diversity is much larger?

[agouti 105]

The AKM is like the VZ-58's half-retarded older brother. Just yesterday my friend was telling me how he couldn't wait for the AKM. I told him I was much more interested in the vz-58.

 

Striker fired, uses a tappet rod instead of connecting it to the bolt, aluminum magazines, and a bolt hold open? (don't get me started on the safety)

 

Hey look, a rifle that uses the m43 round, places the gas tube above the barrel, and is a carbine. It must be an AK!

[gibonez 3633]

The AKM is like the VZ-58's half-retarded older brother. Just yesterday my friend was telling me how he couldn't wait for the AKM. I told him I was much more interested in the vz-58.

 

Striker fired, uses a tappet rod instead of connecting it to the bolt, aluminum magazines, and a bolt hold open? (don't get me started on the safety)

 

Hey look, a rifle that uses the m43 round, places the gas tube above the barrel, and is a carbine. It must be an AK!

 

Disappointed not once did you mention how sexy it is compared to a akm.

 

 

Gives me chub.

[blacklabel79 949]

Well...down the line as i understand it...they will make firearms more rare than they are now...same with ammo.

Edited May 14, 2014 by {Core}BlackLabel

[BadAsh (DayZ) 1513]

Well...down the line as i understand it...they will make firearms more rare than they are now...same with ammo.

 

Problem is that with this statement from the devs they are basically throwing away a perfectly viable mechanic to make guns more rare. By having more types of ammo (and guns to go with them), it would be more difficult for the player to find the correct gun/ammo combination when they lower the overall weapon/ammo loot spawn.

[blacklabel79 949]

But thats fine isent it. Even now i carry ammo i RIGHT NOW dont need and later have plenty for when i find the object of desire.

 

Having less guns isent really a bad thing if you have alternatives.

[BadAsh (DayZ) 1513]

But thats fine isent it. Even now i carry ammo i RIGHT NOW dont need and later have plenty for when i find the object of desire.

 

Having less guns isent really a bad thing if you have alternatives.

 

I guess my post didn't make that clear, but I too would like guns being much rarer than they are now. I just don't understand why they would reject further development on a very natural mechanic for making guns much rarer, while it at the same time introduces more diversity in the game.

 

And yes, they are already halfway there. I too carry around various types of ammo until I find a gun to match any of it. That is how it should be, and I would love to see that tendency carried even further.

Edited May 14, 2014 by BadAsh

[OrLoK 16186]

Problem is that with this statement from the devs they are basically throwing away a perfectly viable mechanic to make guns more rare. By having more types of ammo (and guns to go with them), it would be more difficult for the player to find the correct gun/ammo combination when they lower the overall weapon/ammo loot spawn.

Hello there

 

That is not what they are saying in that statement. Be wary of what you read into it. Lets not assume absolutes until we know the full facts.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[igor-vk 909]

Disappointed not once did you mention how sexy it is compared to a akm.

 

 

Gives me chub.

How about that SA-58 (Vz 58) from the mod (Namalsk), with rails and stuff??? That would be awesome.

[gibonez 3633]

How about that SA-58 (Vz 58) from the mod (Namalsk), with rails and stuff??? That would be awesome.

 

I would prefer no rails.

 

I remember fondly using the vz 58 back in operation flashpoint .

[Katana67 2907]

Problem is that with this statement from the devs they are basically throwing away a perfectly viable mechanic to make guns more rare. By having more types of ammo (and guns to go with them), it would be more difficult for the player to find the correct gun/ammo combination when they lower the overall weapon/ammo loot spawn.

 

While I agree with Orlok that it's not what Torchia said verbatim, it's inevitably what was implied. By dismissing the inclusion of specialized and/or specific calibers, he's inadvertently making a statement about their overall design goals at this time.

 

Maybe hes referring to Epoch where the gun diversity is much larger?

 

No, I'm referring to the vanilla mod and Standalone only.

 

I find ammo to be far more plentiful in stand alone compared to the mod.

 

Right, but I'm not talking about the overall availability of ammunition as a whole. I think the ammunition availability needs to be toned down.

 

Which again brings me to the question - How can we reconcile the fact that rare and common weapons alike may be using the same ammunition?

 

It is detrimental, in my opinion, to have everything using generic ammunition. Because it doesn't really require a justified rarity in ammo availability to suit rare weapons.

 

Another way of approaching it, is having certain calibers both correspond to the generalized make of the weapon (i.e. 7.62x54R for Warsaw Pact and 7.62x51 for NATO) on the "high-end" and then have a more generic "civilian" (for the purposes of a divide, not in their real-world use) batch of hunting ammunition which is more common in-game (i.e. .30-06). Which could supply the "low-end."

Edited May 14, 2014 by Katana67

[yorkmorgan 191]

But if "exotic" weapons used their nearest common counterpart would that be an issue to you or perfectly acceptable.

 

Ie a Eastern Bloc SMG using "standard" 9mm? Or AN Other Assault rifle using 7.62?

 

Or for example "generalising" all types of shotgun shell to just buck/slug/pellet?

 

Would that be an issue?

 

I'm usually on the front line of the realism brigade but this would be a good compromise in some cases IMHO. Classic example is the nagant M1895, that thing is so iconic and would be great in game but it uses a completely unique round, which would just bloat the loot tables even more, i say the devs just swallow hard and make it chamber the .357 rounds, however nonfactual that may be. 

[-Gews- 7443]

i say the devs just swallow hard and make it chamber the .357 rounds, however nonfactual that may be

Blasphemer!

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Blasphemer!

Hell no.

If they were going to do anything they'd may as well do 7.62x25mm Tokarev but even that's a horrible idea.

[Katana67 2907]

I'm usually on the front line of the realism brigade but this would be a good compromise in some cases IMHO. Classic example is the nagant M1895, that thing is so iconic and would be great in game but it uses a completely unique round, which would just bloat the loot tables even more, i say the devs just swallow hard and make it chamber the .357 rounds, however nonfactual that may be. 

 

If they remove "random spread" from weapons, I'd trade that for "Hollywood" suppressors and generic ammunition any day.

[Bororm 1156]

Is it really worth having exotic ammo for "rare" guns if the guns themselves don't really offer anything interesting?  Obviously the VSS is a pretty cool gun with the added benefit of being suppressed, or a .50 cal has has a pretty big role it can play for anti material purposes and long distance sniping, but in regards to guns that simply use different rounds but for all intents and purposes function as a normal assault rifle or whatever what would really be the point?

 

Basically what I'm saying is, if they are going to go through the trouble of creating rare guns with rare ammo, those guns should serve an actual purpose otherwise it doesn't seem worthwhile to me.  On that front, I think they will be adding .50 cals and honestly I think even though Chris Torchia made that post now it's really not outside the realm of possibility the VSS will get added down the line when the general arsenal is more rounded out.

 

Mags seem like the best way to limit functionality on the rarity of guns in game as already suggested.  They're eventually implementing their system where the central hive dictates how many of an actual weapon are in game as well, but I think with server hopping that's going to be a sorta stupid system and I'm skeptical.

[Deathlove 2286]

I want them to make Winchester Sniper gun variety but if they don't make the ammo i would be rather pissed since it uses .308 or at least some of the models do.

 

 

Would be a very nice high caliber gun perfect for both civi and police sites.

[gibonez 3633]

I want them to make Winchester Sniper gun variety but if they don't make the ammo i would be rather pissed since it uses .308 or at least some of the models do.

 

 

Would be a very nice high caliber gun perfect for both civi and police sites.

 

 

Yes more hunting rifles please.

 

300 win mag model 70 would work.

 

 

savage model 12 in .243

 

Look I am all for different calibers being in the game so long as they actually behave differently.

 

The ballistics and physics in standalone are complete crap. A 5.56 round behaves exactly the same as a 7.62x54r.

 

They all have relatively flat trajectories and they do not have to deal with wind.

 

A light super high speed long range round like the .243 is substancially easier to hit at extended ranges compared to a .308 round a .243 screams out the barrel and it bucks the wind easily if the game could simulate that it would be fantastic.