As-50_Thermal and MP5K [ Standalone ]

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

 

Ksvk fits that description.

 

It would make sense too its a russian firearm. It however is not as accurate as the as50 or the m107 this is mainly due to the low quality of russian 50 cal ammo and the scarcity of match ammo for the rifle.

Ideally an anti material rifle should be too prohibitively rare and fire ammo so rare that using it against players should be considered madness, saving it only for knocking out vehicles and such.

 

However that won't happen in DayZ because with hackers, dupers and hoppers we'll always end up with people camped on hilltops with hundreds of rounds of 50cal shooting up everything they see. If they implement an anti-material rifle, I think the accuracy will have to be fairly poor compared to smaller caliber DMRs to balance it out. 

[gibonez 3633]

Ideally an anti material rifle should be too prohibitively rare and fire ammo so rare that using it against players should be considered madness, saving it only for knocking out vehicles and such.

 

However that won't happen in DayZ because with hackers, dupers and hoppers we'll always end up with people camped on hilltops with hundreds of rounds of 50cal shooting up everything they see. If they implement an anti-material rifle, I think the accuracy will have to be fairly poor compared to smaller caliber DMRs to balance it out. 

 

I honestly rather see makeshift anti vehicle weapons or weapons that ordinarily not be anti vehicle fit this role.

 

I rather see ieds, pkms, rpks and molotovs be in the anti vehicle role and not just anti vehicle sniper rifles a rare and impractical weapon.

[Katana67 2907]

AS-50s were so duped in the mod, you'd find tents spilling over with them along with the high quality ammo for them. The duping exploits (some of them) persist in the SA and likely wont be able to get rid of all of them, so the 1 per hive would quickly inflate at a exponential rate.

 

An assumption. One which doesn't include a 1 per hive limit. Perhaps duping would be rendered impossible when the server/hive only allows one of a certain item to exist at any given time. Hive/server recognizes a duped item (because there's more than X) and deletes it.

 

And comparing it to the mod is irrelevant, one could theoretically loot an infinite amount of AS50s (regardless of duping). Whereas with the new loot management, the likelihood that you'll loot one in the first place is "exponentially" less.

 

And more importantly, you can't not INCLUDE AN ITEM/MECHANIC solely under the premise that it might be exploited. You fix/marginalize the exploits.

 

One could theoretically dupe a million M4s, do we stop adding weapons? Do we discard a new loot mechanic? Or do we fix duping?

Edited April 16, 2014 by Katana67

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

An assumption. One which doesn't include a 1 per hive limit. Perhaps duping would be rendered impossible when the server/hive only allows one of a certain item to exist at any given time.

The hive won't be deleting duped items, it will most likely regulate the levels of these weapons by simply stopping them spawning once a certain number are in the population.

 

That doesn't stop people duping them or gaining them by other means.

 

It's an assumption, but it's a pretty good one.

[jukaga 271]

An assumption. One which doesn't include a 1 per hive limit. Perhaps duping would be rendered impossible when the server/hive only allows one of a certain item to exist at any given time.

 

And comparing it to the mod is irrelevant, one could theoretically loot an infinite amount of AS50s (regardless of duping). Whereas with the new loot management, the likelihood that you'll loot one in the first place is "exponentially" less.

 

 

Is that even possible? Can the 'original' be discriminated from the 'clones'?

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

Is that even possible? Can the 'original' be discriminated from the 'clones'?

Almost certainly not.

[Etherious 907]

Almost certainly not.

It can, with a dynamic weapon ID, although yes your right in the fact that finding the original will be SOO hard.

[Katana67 2907]

Regardless you can't NOT INCLUDE SOMETHING based solely on the premise that it MIGHT be exploited.

 

You fix the exploit.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

And more importantly, you can't not INCLUDE AN ITEM/MECHANIC solely under the premise that it might be exploited. You fix/marginalize the exploits.

Failure to consider possible exploitation and its effect on game balance would be an appalling lack of foresight from game design point of few.

 

:rolleyes:

Edited April 16, 2014 by TheScruffyBandit

[Katana67 2907]

Fairly to consider possible exploitation and its effect on game balance would be an appalling lack of foresight from game design point of few.

 

By that logic, every item shouldn't be included, because it's possible to exploit. The game shouldn't be made, because exploits are possible.

 

Fix the exploit.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

By that logic, every item shouldn't be included, because it's possible to exploit. The game shouldn't be made, because exploits are possible.

 

Fix the exploit.

No, by that logic the developer should *consider* the possibility and effects of potential abuse before adding a new item or function. Which is something every good developer should be doing anyway.

[Katana67 2907]

No, by that logic the developer should *consider* the possibility and effects of potential abuse before adding a new item or function. Which is something every good developer should be doing anyway.

 

Not saying they shouldn't consider it at all, never did.

 

I'm saying you can't let the chance of exploitation dictate content. Especially when fixing an exploit actually solves a problem, rather than just sweeping it under the rug by not including "powerful" items on the off-chance it'd be exploited.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Katana67

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

Not saying they shouldn't consider it at all, never did.

 

I'm saying you can't let the chance of exploitation dictate content. Especially when fixing an exploit actually solves a problem, rather than just sweeping it under the rug by not including "powerful" items on the off-chance it'd be exploited.

Not entirely, but if an item would be overpowered if exploitation happened and you can't be sure of preventing that exploitation from becoming widespread then serious consideration needs to be given to if adding that item is the correct choice, at least until the ability to combat said exploitation improves.

Basically I think adding an AS50 type weapon to DayZ in its current state would be disastrous and I don't see the duping and hacking going away anytime soon. However if it did get brought under control and marginalized I would have no problem with 50cal Anti-Material rifles existing in small numbers with extremely rare and valuable ammunition.

[Katana67 2907]

Not entirely, but if an item would be overpowered if exploitation happened and you can't be sure of preventing that exploitation from becoming widespread then serious consideration needs to be given to if adding that item is the correct choice, at least until the ability to combat said exploitation improves.

Basically I think adding an AS50 type weapon to DayZ in its current state would be disastrous and I don't see the duping and hacking going away anytime soon. However if it did get brought under control and marginalized I would have no problem with 50cal Anti-Material rifles existing in small numbers with extremely rare and valuable ammunition.

 

Right. Fix the exploit.

[TheScruffyBandit 382]

Right. Fix the exploit.

But don't add the item until they do, otherwise you're shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, downloaded a script, hacked in an AS50 with infinite ammo and murdered half of Chernarus.

[Katana67 2907]

But don't add the item until they do, otherwise you're shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted, downloaded a script, hacked in an AS50 with infinite ammo and murdered half of Chernarus.

 

Yep, but I won't kill the horse before I've even ridden it. Meaning I won't outright dismiss the premise of an AS50 based solely on the idea that it might be exploited.

[Valadain 270]

I don't mind if the AS50 and/or thermal scope are left out, so long as those pushing for the exclusion stop using the word "anti-game". An "anti-game" does not balance or focus on "fun". It simulates reality and lets the chips fall where they may.

[gibonez 3633]

I don't mind if the AS50 and/or thermal scope are left out, so long as those pushing for the exclusion stop using the word "anti-game". An "anti-game" does not balance or focus on "fun". It simulates reality and lets the chips fall where they may.

 

Yea realism allt he way.

 

If they were going for realism the as 50 would never even be seen in the game.

 

As50 is about as obscure as you can get. Even within its birth nation.

[Valadain 270]

Yea realism allt he way.

 

If they were going for realism the as 50 would never even be seen in the game.

 

As50 is about as obscure as you can get. Even within its birth nation.

 

AS50 maybe, but not a .50 cal rifle in general, which is really what people take issue with.

[gibonez 3633]

AS50 maybe, but not a .50 cal rifle in general, which is really what people take issue with.

 

50 cals really would not be a problem if they just fixed the stamina system and the sprint speed.

[Daemonkid 493]

It's the crossbow.

Edited April 16, 2014 by Daemonkid

[Frothyboot18 46]

Hm... Ok... I can accept the as50, but not with a thermal scope... Make the thing only fireable from a prone position, make it heavy as hell, and loud as hell... Incredible recoil... Make it so everytime you fire it from a crouched or standing position, you fracture your back...

[Valadain 270]

50 cals really would not be a problem if they just fixed the stamina system and the sprint speed.

 

That and the fact that ammo wouldn't exactly grow on trees. It is pretty expensive and isn't kept in as high stock as more common ammunition.

 

The main point I was going for was that you have to stop the "anti-game" talk when you start the "do this for game-play" talk.

[terminal_boy 860]

Exactly, everyone and their cat had an AS-50 in the mod due to duping them and spawning them with scripts.

 

And sever-hoppers would have enough to equip a full squad 30 minutes after they get added to the game.

[IkaikaKekai 1957]

It's the crossbow.

So assuming this is from the files, its a joke then.