New SMG Announced... Any guesses?

[ColdHeat 59]

AKS-74U would be my first guess and hope as well, the Bison my second. I'd love the look and feel of having an AKS-74U hanging around my chest with an PBS-4 silencer attached to it.

[gibonez 3633]

AKS-74U would be my first guess and hope as well, the Bison my second. I'd love the look and feel of having an AKS-74U hanging around my chest with an PBS-4 silencer attached to it.

 

Thats a carbine though.

[weedmasta 784]

Thats a carbine though.

 

Yes indeed it has only been mentioned that it isn't an SMG in this thread a gazillion times. :)

[weedmasta 784]

Aren't there a finite number of spawn slots in the game ?

 

If true as I believe I read in a tweet, this would mean adding in an unlikely and jarring gun such as a scar or a vector would mean wasting a spot for a weapon that would actually fit the setting.

 

Some of the weapons that are already in the game as well as most of the ones in the mod do not fit the setting. I don't see your point. Should they remove the M4 then? I am sure it is a common weapon in the US but quiet the opposite in a setting like Chernarus. In fact with that mindset we should have little if any US weapons at all as they are only really common in the US. So it would be just as uncommon/unlikely to have a Kriss Vector in Chernarus as having an M4. As for "strictly" civilian weapons, people generally tend to stick with the local produce as they are usually cheaper and easier to acquire.

[gibonez 3633]

Some of the weapons that are already in the game as well as most of the ones in the mod do not fit the setting. I don't see your point. Should they remove the M4 then? I am sure it is a common weapon in the US but quiet the opposite in a setting like Chernarus. In fact with that mindset we should have little if any US weapons at all as they are only really common in the US. So it would be just as uncommon/unlikely to have a Kriss Vector in Chernarus as having an M4. As for "strictly" civilian weapons, people generally tend to stick with the local produce as they are usually cheaper and easier to acquire.

 

The weapons in the mod were only added in because they were already in arma 2.

 

Now they don't have to worry about that they can start from scratch and add weapons that fit the setting, this is apparent now since there is such a focus on civilian weapons.

[Katana67 2907]

The weapons in the mod were only added in because they were already in arma 2.

 

Now they don't have to worry about that they can start from scratch and add weapons that fit the setting, this is apparent now since there is such a focus on civilian weapons.

 

Not really seeing a focus on "civilian" weapons, seeing a healthy mix of both civilian and so-called "military" weapons. Especially with the AKM and SVD inbound.

 

Something also tells me kitted out Kimber-esque M1911s, suppressed FNXs, and suppressed Ruger Mk II's are a rarity in the real-world Eastern Bloc as well.

 

If you just look at the rifles of DayZ, there's only two that could explicitly be classified as "civilian".

[gibonez 3633]

Not really seeing a focus on "civilian" weapons, seeing a healthy mix of both civilian and so-called "military" weapons. Especially with the AKM and SVD inbound.

 

Something also tells me kitted out Kimber-esque M1911s, suppressed FNXs, and suppressed Ruger Mk II's are a rarity in the real-world Eastern Bloc as well.

 

If you just look at the rifles of DayZ, there's only two that could explicitly be classified as "civilian".

 

 

 

I just get the general impression that Civilian weapons and weapons that make sense for the region will appear in the game and not obscure military weapons such as that mrad.

Edited April 7, 2014 by gibonez

[Katana67 2907]

 

I just get the general impression that Civilian weapons and weapons that make sense for the region will appear in the game and not obscure military weapons such as that mrad.

 

I get the feeling they'll be selective, in preferring weapons which are useful, various, yet plausible and therefore provided for in the fiction. Hence why Torchia has also expressed interest in the G3 and FAL.

 

The MRAD isn't provided for in the Armaverse. The SCAR is, heavily. As is the CZ 805.  The M60. The XM8. The AS50. The L85A2. The Mk 12 SPR. The USMC DMR. The VSS. The M110. And a variety of other weapons that are relatively rare.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

I get the feeling they'll be selective, in preferring weapons which are useful, various, yet plausible and therefore provided for in the fiction. Hence why Torchia has also expressed interest in the G3 and FAL.

 

The MRAD isn't provided for in the Armaverse. The SCAR is, heavily. As is the CZ 805.  The M60. The XM8. The AS50. The L85A2. The Mk 12 SPR. The USMC DMR. The M110. And a variety of other weapons that are relatively rare.

 

Arma verse and dayz stand alone arent the same.

 

Far as I know Dayz has yet to have a backstory .

 

As far as a more civilian focus I am just judging this based on the fact that there is only 1 military weapon in the game the m4.

 

Mosin nagant is pretty much a civilian deer rifle now, sks is also a civilian weapon, the ruger 10/22 , ruger pistol, fnx,b95, colt python etc are all civilian weapons.

 

We havent and probably wont be seeing any tacticool firearms for a long time.

[Katana67 2907]

Arma verse and dayz stand alone arent the same.

 

Far as I know Dayz has yet to have a backstory .

 

As far as a more civilian focus I am just judging this based on the fact that there is only 1 military weapon in the game the m4.

 

Mosin nagant is pretty much a civilian deer rifle now, sks is also a civilian weapon, the ruger 10/22 , ruger pistol, fnx,b95, colt python etc are all civilian weapons.

 

We havent and probably wont be seeing any tacticool firearms for a long time.

 

They've said it's in the Armaverse, IIRC. And by virtue of it being set in Chernarus, it is also in the Armaverse. DayZ does have a backstory, as evidenced in the landscape of Chernarus (i.e. infection postings, traffic jams, plane crashes, etc.) It has not yet been articulated into a formal lore.

 

The Mosin-Nagant is a military weapon, meaning that it was and is used by militaries. Same applies for the SKS. If you don't abide by that, then it's saying that the distinction between civilian/military weapons is irrelevant. Something which I wholeheartedly believe, hence why I see no problem in having so-called "military" weapons form the backbone of DayZ's weapon portfolio.

 

Well, we've got kitted out M4s and Kimber-esque 1911s. Sounds pretty tactical to me.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

They've said it's in the Armaverse, IIRC. And by virtue of it being set in Chernarus, it is also in the Armaverse. DayZ does have a backstory, as evidenced in the landscape of Chernarus (i.e. infection postings, traffic jams, plane crashes, etc.) It has not yet been articulated into a formal lore.

 

The Mosin-Nagant is a military weapon, meaning that it was and is used by militaries. Same applies for the SKS. If you don't abide by that, then it's saying that the distinction between civilian/military weapons is irrelevant. Something which I wholeheartedly believe, hence why I see no problem in having so-called "military" weapons form the backbone of DayZ's weapon portfolio.

 

Well, we've got kitted out M4s and Kimber-esque 1911s. Sounds pretty tactical to me.

 

I had no idea kimber outfitted any military in the world. If they do god daam they are overpaying.

 

I no longer see the sks and the mosin nagant as military weapons, they were when they were issued sure, but now they are owned and marketed towards the civilian market as ranch rifles and deer rifles.

 

No military in the world would want to outfit their troops with mosins or sks rifles.

[Katana67 2907]

I had no idea kimber outfitted any military in the world. If they do god daam they are overpaying.

 

I no longer see the sks and the mosin nagant as military weapons, they were when they were issued sure, but now they are owned and marketed towards the civilian market as ranch rifles and deer rifles.

 

No military in the world would want to outfit their troops with mosins or sks rifles.

 

Right, they'd want to outfit their troops with prototypical weapons, SCARs, AK-12s, or HK416s. Further underscoring the irrelevance of your categorization of "military" weapons.

 

The AR-15 is also marketed toward civilian applications. Yet it's used and has been used by the military. The same applies for the SKS and Mosin.

 

Kimber doesn't outfit any militaries, but I was making the point that the M1911 we've got in already is pretty "tacticool" by a lot of people's standards. To say nothing of the FNX w/ RDS and suppressor.

 

What exactly fits your definition of "obscure weapons", "tacticool", and "military weapons"? Because, in my mind, there is at least one weapon from all three categories already included in DayZ.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Katana67

[gibonez 3633]

Obscure and tacticool weapons in my mind are those corny guns that are marketed as the next big thing and they are intentionally marketed towards civilians are easily fooled by black rifles , rails and accessories.

[Capo 323]

The AKS-74U is still not an SMG... They also said no new ammo types, so it's gotta be 9x19 parabellum or .45. Hopefully the Bison or the Skorpion.

 

They didn't say, "no new ammo types" they said they want to cut down on ammunition types and not have exotic calibers, ie rounds that only work in a small range of unrealistic weapons. 

 

I also would like the bison or skorpion , but I'd rather they chamber them in 9x18, as that will make the round more useful than just the makarov pistol.

 

9x19 works in a plethora of different guns, so there's a whole bunch of smgs such as the beretta m12, tec-9, mp5 (of course), mp40 - there are so many, I hope they don't waste the opportunity to make the weapon variety interesting by sticking to <10 different calibers. That would be a failing on the dev's part. 

[-Gews- 7443]

And nobody's saying "take out AK's!" They're covered. They're in. They're inbound. We got it.

 

The graphic you used to demonstrate your point inevitably demonstrates what I brought up with Orlok. Nobody's (that I've seen) suggesting that these weapons should be common. They should be rare. Very rare.

 

Remove everything but the Tavor in the background, and you'll see what I'm getting at. Rarity.

 

Moreover, you're blurring the real-world circumstances for the prevalence of these weapons with the fictional reasoning for these weapons (which is flexible, rather than rigid). Simply because something's expensive/rare in the real-world, doesn't mean it cannot be explained in the fiction. That is the crux of the issue.

 

Never mind that the grouping together of weapons such as the ACR, SCAR, and Vector is not apt. The SCAR platform is actually seeing a marked popularity increase amongst a variety of militaries (the United States, Kenya, Germany [in their LE], Serbia, Greece, Lithuania [iIRC, could be another Baltic State] etc.) The SCAR is actually provided for in the Armaverse as well, as the main service rifle of the United States Army in neighboring Takistan. The ACR is seeing limited use by GROM and the MSBS Radon platform is in competition for Poland's next service rile. The Vector is the anomalous one, the equating of it with the ACR and ESPECIALLY the SCAR platform isn't coherent.

 

Similarly, one's definition of "plausible" and "jarring" are subjective. Nothing wrong with that, but I don't find a rare Mk 17 jarring to find in Chernarus. I didn't find rare-ass M107's and AS50's jarring. Nor did I find L85's/SA80's jarring. Because they were provided for in the fiction. There's no monolithic audience amongst individuals.

 

The mere presence of something doesn't mean it's commonplace. Which is the hyperbole that you're using in the graphic.

 

If there was a non-fiction movie with Russian/Eastern European troops carrying ACRs and SCARs, yes, it would be inaccurate. But, we're not in a non-fiction setting. We're in the Armaverse, a fictional universe which asserts that the SCAR became the standard service rifle of the United States Army! A fiction which asserts that PMCs have ready access to cancelled XM8's! That's not even using ARMA III's fiction either!

 

What would be plausible, in my mind, is for these weapons to remain (as you say) rare. Not nonexistent.

 

 

 

Correct that the Armaverse deviates from real life - however it often does so in "plausible" ways.

 

For example the SCAR. According to Operation Arrowhead the SCAR is supposed to be the US Army's service rifle in 2012. That's not a random choice. There was a huge amount of talk about replacing the M4 Carbine sometime in the very NEAR future. The SCAR was heavily promoted and a few years ago, there was plenty of speculation the SCAR would end up as the replacement for the M4 Carbine. It was adopted by SOCOM. Many other games also portrayed US soldiers using SCARs. While not "true to life", it was a plausible choice that did not require suspension of disbelief... if they had portrayed that US soldiers were issued with HK G3s or AK-101s, ARMA fans would have had an absolute fit. Because while the world is fictional, neither the G3 or the AK-101 is a plausible choice for a new US service rifle. A fictional setting does not excuse craziness...

 

 

Possible =/= plausible. It's not physically impossible for a SCAR-17 or ACR or Vector to end up in Chernarus, but if you are comparing it to similar, Chernarus-like real-world countries, any of them, it is extremely unlikely anyone in a zombie apocalypse would run across them. It is extremely unlikely anyone in a full-blown war would run across them.

 

If you are measuring the relative "unlikeliness" of running across a SCAR-17, as opposed to an AK or side-by-side shotgun, you better put the SCAR's spawn rate hundreds... nah, thousands of times lower. 1-in-20, 1-in-50 does not come close to cutting it. I don't see the point in giving something such a low chance of spawn that one in several thousand players might happen upon it. I consider that a waste of time.

 

They will not model 1000 firearms, they won't even model 100 firearms, not even close. If we only have 20 guns, what's the use of having one that is never seen?  Any new firearms that are added must be prioritized. There are hundreds of guns that are better suited than a Kriss Vector, there are many dozens better suited than a SCAR.

 

 

 

Regarding the current selection I would highlight 4 firearms and 10 attachments and press the "delete" key without so much as a second thought...

[gibonez 3633]

Correct that the Armaverse deviates from real life - however it often does so in "plausible" ways.

 

For example the SCAR. According to Operation Arrowhead the SCAR is supposed to be the US Army's service rifle in 2012. That's not a random choice. There was a huge amount of talk about replacing the M4 Carbine sometime in the very NEAR future. The SCAR was heavily promoted and a few years ago, there was plenty of speculation the SCAR would end up as the replacement for the M4 Carbine. It was adopted by SOCOM. Many other games also portrayed US soldiers using SCARs. While not "true to life", it was a plausible choice that did not require suspension of disbelief... if they had portrayed that US soldiers were issued with HK G3s or AK-101s, ARMA fans would have had an absolute fit. Because while the world is fictional, neither the G3 or the AK-101 is a plausible choice for a new US service rifle. A fictional setting does not excuse craziness...

 

 

Possible =/= plausible. It's not physically impossible for a SCAR-17 or ACR or Vector to end up in Chernarus, but if you are comparing it to similar, Chernarus-like real-world countries, any of them, it is extremely unlikely anyone in a zombie apocalypse would run across them. It is extremely unlikely anyone in a full-blown war would run across them.

 

If you are measuring the relative "unlikeliness" of running across a SCAR-17, as opposed to an AK or side-by-side shotgun, you better put the SCAR's spawn rate hundreds... nah, thousands of times lower. 1-in-20, 1-in-50 does not come close to cutting it. I don't see the point in giving something such a low chance of spawn that one in several thousand players might happen upon it. I consider that a waste of time.

 

They will not model 1000 firearms, they won't even model 100 firearms, not even close. If we only have 20 guns, what's the use of having one that is never seen?  Any new firearms that are added must be prioritized. There are hundreds of guns that are better suited than a Kriss Vector, there are many dozens better suited than a SCAR.

 

 

 

Regarding the current selection I would highlight 4 firearms and 10 attachments and press the "delete" key without so much as a second thought...

 

Isn't it also true that they only have a certain number of items they could add to the loot tables ?

 

I remember reading somewhere that there was a finite number of items that could be introduced into the loot tables so they are thereby restricted already.

[Katana67 2907]

Isn't it also true that they only have a certain number of items they could add to the loot tables ?

 

I remember reading somewhere that there was a finite number of items that could be introduced into the loot tables so they are thereby restricted already.

 

No, again, you're confusing rarity with substitution.

 

They've not spoken of a "fixed" number of items which can be added to the tables.

 

They've spoken of REGULATING the loot tables so that there's a FIXED NUMBER OF A CERTAIN ITEM in the game at any given point.

 

As an example, they allot 10 SCARs per hive. Player 1 picks up SCAR #10. Players 2-10 already have SCARs #1-9. Player 1 dies, SCAR #10 disappears. SCAR #10 respawns. No SCARs respawn until one is lost.

 

It's not like they have to PICK between putting in a SCAR or an AK into the loot tables.

 

Correct that the Armaverse deviates from real life - however it often does so in "plausible" ways.

 

For example the SCAR. According to Operation Arrowhead the SCAR is supposed to be the US Army's service rifle in 2012. That's not a random choice. There was a huge amount of talk about replacing the M4 Carbine sometime in the very NEAR future. The SCAR was heavily promoted and a few years ago, there was plenty of speculation the SCAR would end up as the replacement for the M4 Carbine. It was adopted by SOCOM. Many other games also portrayed US soldiers using SCARs. While not "true to life", it was a plausible choice that did not require suspension of disbelief... if they had portrayed that US soldiers were issued with HK G3s or AK-101s, ARMA fans would have had an absolute fit. Because while the world is fictional, neither the G3 or the AK-101 is a plausible choice for a new US service rifle. A fictional setting does not excuse craziness...

 

Possible =/= plausible. It's not physically impossible for a SCAR-17 or ACR or Vector to end up in Chernarus, but if you are comparing it to similar, Chernarus-like real-world countries, any of them, it is extremely unlikely anyone in a zombie apocalypse would run across them. It is extremely unlikely anyone in a full-blown war would run across them.

 

If you are measuring the relative "unlikeliness" of running across a SCAR-17, as opposed to an AK or side-by-side shotgun, you better put the SCAR's spawn rate hundreds... nah, thousands of times lower. 1-in-20, 1-in-50 does not come close to cutting it. I don't see the point in giving something such a low chance of spawn that one in several thousand players might happen upon it. I consider that a waste of time.

 

They will not model 1000 firearms, they won't even model 100 firearms, not even close. If we only have 20 guns, what's the use of having one that is never seen?  Any new firearms that are added must be prioritized. There are hundreds of guns that are better suited than a Kriss Vector, there are many dozens better suited than a SCAR.

 

Regarding the current selection I would highlight 4 firearms and 10 attachments and press the "delete" key without so much as a second thought...

 

You're right in saying that a fictional setting doesn't excuse craziness. Which is the entire point of fiction. It makes plausible that which is not. It doesn't excuse it, it integrates it into the universe in a plausible manner.

 

"Chernarussian Police Special Tactics unit purchased small numbers of American-made KRISS Vector submachine guns prior to the outbreak of infection. It was slated to replace their current crop of X submachine guns" (it would be more prudent, in the real-world for one to opt for SBRs or PDWs, but that's... again... applying pure real-world circumstance into a fiction). It could be explained as simply as that. It's plausible in the fiction. It's explained. It's not random. There's a reason for it. It isn't the "real-world" reason. It's a reason that fits into the fiction to make it plausible.

 

The only reason why it's implausible now, is because there's no reason for it. With the M4, there's an in-universe reason for it to be there.

 

And again, you're using "Chernarus-like real-world countries" as a baseline. Not Chernarus, the fictional land in which the events of DayZ occur.

 

I'm not measuring the unlikeliness of something. Obviously, it would be extremely unlikely. But it shouldn't be dismissed based SOLELY on the fact that in the real-world, one wouldn't find these weapons in these countries (which is also highly debatable, as many Eastern European states use ARs, SCARs, and all kindsa' tactical fun stuff nowadays).

 

Making these things rare MAKES THEM PLAUSIBLE as well from an authenticity point of view anyhow. Moreover, we have no idea how the loot system will work in terms of rarity. I suspect they'll have to adjust their so-called "high-end" rare loot accordingly. Reading a hypothetical ratio at this point into the system which we know nothing about doesn't really help us understand how rarity should play out. I suspect, again, that they won't simulate real-world rarity in terms of "one in a thousand". They'll adjust it accordingly to balance rarity with developmental pragmatism.

 

"Regarding the current selection I would highlight 4 firearms and 10 attachments and press the "delete" key without so much as a second thought...", this tells me we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Katana67

[weedmasta 784]

The weapons in the mod were only added in because they were already in arma 2.

 

Now they don't have to worry about that they can start from scratch and add weapons that fit the setting, this is apparent now since there is such a focus on civilian weapons.

 

Yes but that doesn't change the fact that the M4 still doesn't fit the setting. So the devs adding weapons that fit this setting is not correct. I am not saying they should to be honest. I'd be glad to have any type of weapon unless they aren't too over the top, like a 50 cal sniper rifle, but I fail to see how a weapon like the Kriss Vector or Scar for example would ruin the immersion of the game.

 

Also this:

 

 

As an example, they allot 10 SCARs per hive. Player 1 picks up SCAR #10. Players 2-10 already have SCARs #1-9. Player 1 dies, SCAR #10 disappears. SCAR #10 respawns. No SCARs respawn until one is lost.

 

It's not like they have to PICK between putting in a SCAR or an AK into the loot tables.

Edited April 7, 2014 by weedmasta

[mugur 123]

if the supresors are going to be effective in dayz, i really hope for Ingram as smg.

 

:)

 

[Katana67 2907]

Obscure and tacticool weapons in my mind are those corny guns that are marketed as the next big thing and they are intentionally marketed towards civilians are easily fooled by black rifles , rails and accessories.

 

What does any of this have to do with the weapons themselves? Similarly, what does it have to do with whether or not the weapons would be useful in DayZ? Or whether or not the weapons are used by civilians/military?

 

Most "tactical" weapons are marketed toward LE/Military customers first, hence the moniker of "tactical." See SCAR. See AR-15. See KRISS Vector. Never mind the fact that many of the "tactical" weapons are indeed adopted by militaries and have legitimate uses in the private sector.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Katana67

[liquidsnake 275]

To everyone saying the M4 and other guns don't fit DayZ either: remember that the UN was present in Chernarus. this easily justifies the M4, G3 and FAL spawns.

[Katana67 2907]

To everyone saying the M4 and other guns don't fit DayZ either: remember that the UN was present in Chernarus. this easily justifies the M4, G3 and FAL spawns.

 

And the military of the United Kingdom (possibly, via UK vests). And the United States.

 

Now that I think about it, the Sterling submachine gun is a prime choice for DayZ. It's 9mm. It's available in the Czech Republic, and was (if it's the same gun shop) available at the shop in Prague which Torchia tweeted about (in addition to a kitted out AR-10 /snickerateveryone).

Edited April 7, 2014 by Katana67

[QUAZIMOFO 275]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vityaz-SN

[kaix12 34]

The ak74u is basically a smg small and light with a fold away stock.

No, its like me calling the L85 a sniper rife just because it has a long barrel and used to have Susats on top, its down to the round, not size, a smg with a barrel as long as a sniper would still be a smg as it would fire a pistol calibre.

Nvm shouldn't of said that...

Edited April 7, 2014 by Kaxii

[gibonez 3633]

Yes but that doesn't change the fact that the M4 still doesn't fit the setting. So the devs adding weapons that fit this setting is not correct. I am not saying they should to be honest. I'd be glad to have any type of weapon unless they aren't too over the top, like a 50 cal sniper rifle, but I fail to see how a weapon like the Kriss Vector or Scar for example would ruin the immersion of the game.

 

Also this:

 

I thought it was said or assumed atleast that there was a US occupational force in Chenarus when the incident happened.

 

That is why there are humvees all around the map.

 

If that were true then the m4 would make sense along with any other us military small arm.

 

The vector and scar wouldn't make sense since the US military does not field those rifles and the US special forces got rid of all their scars for apparently being pieces of crap.