Perks/skills/professions/stats

[Redstar Payne 54]

Sounds to me like you have no interest in playing a survival game and lots of interest in testing your deathmatch skills.  My goal in suggesting skills that improve over time is to add value to your character's life so you are less likely to do unrealistic/suicidal crap.  I know this will be very unpopular with the KoS community... but then, is this game really made for them?

 

haha you obviously have never scene me play, I basicly make my guy live in the wild with a gun and a knife and little food. I avoid gun fights because me as a person am not really accurate so the KoS accusation is void, i only kill on sight if i am in a dire situation and have no way to avoid a bandit (sometimes i honestly dont know if bandit or not). This proving that my characters skills are based on my own personal skills in real life, i do what i know and make a habit of evading enemy fire. If you add skills to a game like this that improve shooting as you play it actually will drive people to KoS more because they will want to fine tune their skills meaning camping will be an all time high as well as miss leading someone to believe you are friendly until they reach a high skill point and then they will go survival. I can maybe see skills in healing faster or running longer distance with out breathing hard quickly but never skills in combat, you are basicly promoting bandits with a request like this without even knowing it. You seem to be a generally good guy maybe even a hero like me but if your "suggestion" passes then you will see what i mean.

[Redstar Payne 54]

honestly im not trying to be a dick i just dont want to see all players turn bandit when they spawn in and later go hero when their character is high enough.

[Rigor Mortis (DayZ) 141]

If you add skills to a game like this that improve shooting...

Sorry I misunderstood your original post.

 

As for improving shooting, I don't think I made any such recommendation.  The ability to aim and fire would not change - reloading rate, running stamina, food requirements would all improve.  It doesn't take any special skills to wait for a person and shoot them when you see them.

 

All I am working on doing is giving people more reason to stay alive and avoid risking their lives.  Some people will see this as more reason to be bandits, but I think it will also encourage survivalists.  

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Sorry I misunderstood your original post.

 

As for improving shooting, I don't think I made any such recommendation.  The ability to aim and fire would not change - reloading rate, running stamina, food requirements would all improve.  It doesn't take any special skills to wait for a person and shoot them when you see them.

 

All I am working on doing is giving people more reason to stay alive and avoid risking their lives.  Some people will see this as more reason to be bandits, but I think it will also encourage survivalists.  

 

But your shooting skill would improve the more you did it in real life so in  the beginning your hands should shake more than they do currently and gradually get steady like some professional sniper if your character has lived like 200 hours.

 

Player jobs and things like this have been suggested many times(I suggested it before too) and I think they should implement it, doctors can heal themselves and others faster and can have morphine stack for example.

Everyone else starts at a basic level for everything but their select field and then slowly get as good as a doctor at applying bandages the more they do it.

 

It would be nice if the game had some kind of a point like that currently it gets dull as soon as you have full gear, there's nothing to do but kill people or aimlessly explore pretty identical looking towns.

[Redstar Payne 54]

But your shooting skill would improve the more you did it in real life so in  the beginning your hands should shake more than they do currently and gradually get steady like some professional sniper if your character has lived like 200 hours.

 

Player jobs and things like this have been suggested many times(I suggested it before too) and I think they should implement it, doctors can heal themselves and others faster and can have morphine stack for example.

Everyone else starts at a basic level for everything but their select field and then slowly get as good as a doctor at applying bandages the more they do it.

 

It would be nice if the game had some kind of a point like that currently it gets dull as soon as you have full gear, there's nothing to do but kill people or aimlessly explore pretty identical looking towns.

 

im saying certain skills i can understand as long as they dont involve a reflex skill ... for instance in real life i can run decently fast but i cant incorporate that to my character so gradually i can see my character running slightly faster and further the more i went along but i dont have a steady hand when it comes to shooting in game and out but that does directly effect my player so i dont believe in game as you shoot your aim would steady i believe that depends on the player it self. Basicly indirect skils should be improvable but direct skills should not 

[UltimateGentleman 355]

im saying certain skills i can understand as long as they dont involve a reflex skill ... for instance in real life i can run decently fast but i cant incorporate that to my character so gradually i can see my character running slightly faster and further the more i went along but i dont have a steady hand when it comes to shooting in game and out but that does directly effect my player so i dont believe in game as you shoot your aim would steady i believe that depends on the player it self. Basicly indirect skils should be improvable but direct skills should not 

 

Well not just aim in general but controlling a weapon too.

After having just picked up an M4 nobody would be as adept with it as the characters in the game the recoil would be a nightmare so over time you should get used to it and guns should sway less the longer you survive and use them until your character is a veteran survivor.

Guns should always sway though I don't mean you should improve so much that they're held still perfectly.

 

Judging the distance and how high up to shoot plus the wind should be up to the player but the player can;t affect how toned their characters muscles are and how well they hold a weapon.

[Redstar Payne 54]

Well not just aim in general but controlling a weapon too.

After having just picked up an M4 nobody would be as adept with it as the characters in the game the recoil would be a nightmare so over time you should get used to it and guns should sway less the longer you survive and use them until your character is a veteran survivor.

Guns should always sway though I don't mean you should improve so much that they're held still perfectly.

 

Judging the distance and how high up to shoot plus the wind should be up to the player but the player can;t affect how toned their characters muscles are and how well they hold a weapon.

 

its true you cant directly affect the muscles but honestly when it comes to shooting in this i find it more then ok the way it is, sure some people can hit a target in one shot from a mile away but thats because they them self can move the gun to position and steady it with precision while others like me have a harder time getting that well placed shot. I dont feel the gun aspect should change but maybe add some unsteadily aiming to all depending on the weight of the gun and dont have it improved over time.

[benedictus 160]

On a side note, I really like reading the suggestion area, people have wild imaginations. If everything would be added there wouldnt be any real reason to disconnect from the hive anymore.

Alpha = everything is possible!

 

On the topic, Id have to say no, but mainly because RPG elements are already done in every single game today and I dont really like grinding my skills back up every time I die (yes I like PvP,KoS,Banditing and everything else that puts you on edge in the game).

 

But theres 2 sides to the coin.

 

Some people like pvp and the fear of dying and some people would just like to socialize and craft fancy items. Obviosly only side that looses here (ingame) are the socializers cause they get KoS, and they dont like it. Then they start figuring out ways how to reduce the chance of getting killed by making crazy changes to the game.

Like not being able to shoot properly. Or having permanent stashes for loot.

[Rigor Mortis (DayZ) 141]

Well not just aim in general but controlling a weapon too.

After having just picked up an M4 nobody would be as adept with it as the characters in the game the recoil would be a nightmare so over time you should get used to it and guns should sway less the longer you survive and use them until your character is a veteran survivor.

Guns should always sway though I don't mean you should improve so much that they're held still perfectly.

 

Judging the distance and how high up to shoot plus the wind should be up to the player but the player can;t affect how toned their characters muscles are and how well they hold a weapon.

I agree with your assessment that the characters in the game shouldn't be Navy SEALs when they land on the beach, but I have to let you know that the recoil from an M4 is one of the softest around and it's a super easy weapon to learn to use. I have watched 90 lbs women in the Air Force pick one up for the first time and become experts within a few minutes.

 

Sorry, I hate to correct when someone is making my point, but I felt you should know.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I agree with your assessment that the characters in the game shouldn't be Navy SEALs when they land on the beach, but I have to let you know that the recoil from an M4 is one of the softest around and it's a super easy weapon to learn to use. I have watched 90 lbs women in the Air Force pick one up for the first time and become experts within a few minutes.

 

Sorry, I hate to correct when someone is making my point, but I felt you should know.

 

 

Well if she's in the air force she'd have been trained to use weapons already right? It's pretty easy to learn if you've used guns before unless you're picking up a 50.cal or something :P

 

The stress of having to shoot at real people should make your character shaky too so if you want to be a KoS bandit you have to work for it. I can't see what would be bad about that, everyone screams about how this game should be realistic then they say no to realistic features...

[kichilron 8550]

Merging

I have read a couple of other threads on similar topics, but none that are the same... sorry if I'm reposting old ideas.

 

 

Merged

[11tw 106]

There have been too many different threads on this topic! I love the idea personally, but I have a proposal.

 

Implement the 'usage' skill idea shown in an earlier thread (i.e. first time you sow you only repair it a bit, after a certain number of times you fully restore the item, and first time you reload it takes 15 seconds standing still, 30 seconds running, then it gets faster every time you do it).

 

However, I know that there are other ideas on how a perk/skill system could be implemented, so how about a poll?

 

Do four proposals:

1) no perks, no skills

2) usage improves skills

3) survival time unlocks perks

4) ideas 2+3 combined

 

(tbh, 4 sounds like the most fun, but 2 seems the most realistic)

 

Have people vote on it, then take the result into consideration when making the final decision.

[11tw 106]

As for people who go: NO!!! keep it as it is!!!

 

Tell me honestly, that you could pick up a gun for the first time and reload it as fast as the current avatar does. Tell me that you could successfully do so while running from zombies. Tell me that you could sow a pair of trousers back together without using a whole yarn of thread.

 

The 'you get better as you do stuff' proposal is just the most realistic, the most intuitive, and the most fun. I want to have a character who learns, grows and develops over time.

 

And it should be invisible but noticeable, i.e. no animation that pops up and says: 'sowing level up!'.

Instead we should just notice that we are getting better at bandaging ourselves, starting fires, loading our guns and repairing our clothes.

Edited June 6, 2014 by 11tw

[Element47 2480]

Well not just aim in general but controlling a weapon too.

After having just picked up an M4 nobody would be as adept with it as the characters in the game the recoil would be a nightmare so over time you should get used to it and guns should sway less the longer you survive and use them until your character is a veteran survivor.

Guns should always sway though I don't mean you should improve so much that they're held still perfectly.

 

Judging the distance and how high up to shoot plus the wind should be up to the player but the player can;t affect how toned their characters muscles are and how well they hold a weapon.

 

look at cartel wars in latin america, look at the taliban, look at the children warriors in africa, look at the gang wars in south central LA - you dont have to be a Fort Benning graduate to be able to kill people with a gun. i agree with the sway though.

[Rigor Mortis (DayZ) 141]

look at cartel wars in latin america, look at the taliban, look at the children warriors in africa, look at the gang wars in south central LA - you dont have to be a Fort Benning graduate to be able to kill people with a gun. i agree with the sway though.

Guns are lethal regardless of the holder (i.e. trigger pull can equal death for someone), but there is a massive difference between a trained soldier and a person who just picks a gun up for the first time.  Let's take a look at a battle where the two squared off: The Battle of Mogadishu -- better known as the basis for the movie "Black Hawk Down".

 

For anyone who lives in a hole and didn't see the movie, a group of special forces was trapped in a hostile city overnight and was in a drawn out battle for their lives the whole time. The folks who made the movie worked closely with the US Army on the recreation and did a pretty darned good job of recreating the battle with minimal hollywood embellishment.

 

In the real battle, the well trained soldiers on the US side killed between 1,500 and 3,000 Somali attackers (reports are unclear as to the exact number) -- this is with limited ammo and only 160 men.  The mostly untrained Somali attackers killed 18 trained soldiers -- this is with literally _thousands_ of them shooting at the soldiers by the way with practically unlimited ammo (their supply lines were not cut off).

 

To reiterate my point, soldiers are vastly better at using firearms than untrained civilians.  Just because you have played Arma does not mean you know how to shoot... and just because you know how to hit a target in your back yard doesn't mean you can hit one in combat.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

To reiterate my point, soldiers are vastly better at using firearms than untrained civilians.  Just because you have played Arma does not mean you know how to shoot... and just because you know how to hit a target in your back yard doesn't mean you can hit one in combat.

 

Yeah this is what I mean.

It would be fine I guess if the "story" was that you're a soldier that washed up on the beach.

 

But that's boring, I'd rather be put to basics and have to learn everything from scratch not everyone just knows how to survive much less how to shoot so it would be great if you just had a select profession(or none if you want to be truly basic) meaning something you're decent at, like fixing stuff and then the rest like medical treatment you build up over time and repeated use.

 

The more you survive the better you are at surviving, it would be great.

[Element47 2480]

Guns are lethal regardless of the holder (i.e. trigger pull can equal death for someone), but there is a massive difference between a trained soldier and a person who just picks a gun up for the first time.  Let's take a look at a battle where the two squared off: The Battle of Mogadishu -- better known as the basis for the movie "Black Hawk Down".

 

For anyone who lives in a hole and didn't see the movie, a group of special forces was trapped in a hostile city overnight and was in a drawn out battle for their lives the whole time. The folks who made the movie worked closely with the US Army on the recreation and did a pretty darned good job of recreating the battle with minimal hollywood embellishment.

 

In the real battle, the well trained soldiers on the US side killed between 1,500 and 3,000 Somali attackers (reports are unclear as to the exact number) -- this is with limited ammo and only 160 men.  The mostly untrained Somali attackers killed 18 trained soldiers -- this is with literally _thousands_ of them shooting at the soldiers by the way with practically unlimited ammo (their supply lines were not cut off).

 

To reiterate my point, soldiers are vastly better at using firearms than untrained civilians.  Just because you have played Arma does not mean you know how to shoot... and just because you know how to hit a target in your back yard doesn't mean you can hit one in combat.

but thats the point.

 

the combat in DayZ is the combat of individuals or small groups of untrained laymen, not trained soldiers. fighters in DayZ - in their skill, weapon proficiency, and approach to combat - are far more comparable to somali gangs than to disciplined ranger squads.

 

thus my opinion, that gameplay combat mechanics in DayZ should be modeled after such combat, and not disciplined, high-precision warfare of a modern army. i dont think the scope of DayZ allows for any character to become really proficient in a way comparable to a soldier.

 

so to bring this back on topic at hand, i dont think our dayz character should be good at shooting, and i dont think he should become better at shooting over time. this also means i am not against artificial dispersion - because no matter how skilled you are as a mouse-keyboard jockey, your character shouldnt be able to use military arms as efficiently as a veteran specops soldier - not on first day, and not after two weeks in the wilderness.

 

i am fully in favor of beards and braids as progression though.

[Rigor Mortis (DayZ) 141]

thus my opinion, that gameplay combat mechanics in DayZ should be modeled after such combat, and not disciplined, high-precision warfare of a modern army. i dont think the scope of DayZ allows for any character to become really proficient in a way comparable to a soldier.

So I take it you believe that anyone can pick up a gun and aim with pinpoint accuracy the way the game allows now?  It makes sense for games where your player is a soldier like CoD and MW2, but I'm talking about the way the game allows a normal person to pick up a weapon and instantly be able to mash that weapon up to their eye and put rounds on target 300 yards away with a mouse click... it's incredibly unrealistic.  Sadly I can't think of a way to make it more realistic.

[Element47 2480]

So I take it you believe that anyone can pick up a gun and aim with pinpoint accuracy the way the game allows now?  It makes sense for games where your player is a soldier like CoD and MW2, but I'm talking about the way the game allows a normal person to pick up a weapon and instantly be able to mash that weapon up to their eye and put rounds on target 300 yards away with a mouse click... it's incredibly unrealistic.  Sadly I can't think of a way to make it more realistic.

 

i meant the exact opposite :)

 

i think that anyone, no matter how skilled in computer gaming, should have a hard time shooting anyone beyond 50m. hence i am not against artificial dispersion, which would reduce proficiency of our avatar, no matter how skilled the player is.

[Rigor Mortis (DayZ) 141]

i meant the exact opposite :)

 

i think that anyone, no matter how skilled in computer gaming, should have a hard time shooting anyone beyond 50m. hence i am not against artificial dispersion, which would reduce proficiency of our avatar, no matter how skilled the player is.

My bad... apparently I suck at reading today lol.

[jamieslingz 8]

OP +1

[Mark Darkers 151]

So I have been trying out all the new zombie survival games lately and each one has elements that I like and dont like.

 

What I find lacking in DayZ is the the lack of personal customization for your character.  

 

Let me start of with Professions.

 

Everyone has one.  Some people are better at things that other.  For example, running.  The running that my character does in the game would physically kill me due to a heart problem that I have, but on the bright sight I do electronics for a living.  I could make flashlights, radios, broadcasting equipment and I also worked in a hardware store for a long time so when it comes to thinking out side the box I can use a bunch of broken crap and fabricate some really neat stuff.  Guns, I know safety but could I really speed load a gun if I had to... I am going to go with no.  A friend of mine that was in Afghanistan as a troop would on the other hand be able to handle his weapons with ease and have the running endurance for long runs.

 

To make the game a truly life like experience you would have to add in some kind of skill/perk system, profession and stat system.

 

If you would to put me and my friend side by side with the same gear (lets go with a full combat set) I wouldnt be jogging anywhere, I would be dragging my gun down the road while he would be jogging and I am going to guess without even breaking a sweat.  However, you put me in a hardware store I could make you some weapons that would be awesome.  A little bit of ABS pipe, some fittings, an air compessor and some paper towels and nails and screws.  Meg-shift shotgun, ta da!  Not sure what he would make but man I could just go to town in a hardware store.  Throws us both in the wilderness and I think we would be on part with each other.  He would have the upper hand on hunting and being mobile, but I was a boy scout when I was younger and I could navigate myself to a town or to water if I needed to.

 

My suggestion for this being worked into the game isnt kill X amount of zombies to get a level.  It would kill zombies or players (if thats your thing) and get exp, as you build up exp you can spend it on new skills.  Such as being able to go longer without eating, or faster weapon swapping or being able to fall from higher places.  

The idea behind this is to let players progress to something other than just running about and finding better gear that what they have.  Right now I have the most storage space I can get I think, and a good set up of food and weapons, so what is there for me to do really... nothing.  I just log in and run around with friends to hang out.  I have nothing to progress in and there for, no real drive to play the game.  For fairness, each player should only have so many skills/perks so you cant be the super crafty soldier or were just back at the same place of everyone being the same and then the game is boring again.

 

When you make your character you should be able to pick a professions and a single skill to go with it.  The gear you start with should match up to said profession and skill.  This would be the only thing that sticks with you when you die.  Not that you keep everything that you had, but you will start again with the same profession and skill that you picked before.  If you want a new set of skills then you have to start over, so that means no respecing.  If you make a soldier and ear 6 skills and then find out you want to do a survivalist, then you would have to start over FROM ZERO.  

 

I dont want a level system, that just wouldnt make any sense at all but grouping up with someone that can fight, and someone that can track and hunt while someone is good with their hands would make for a good team, and maybe players wouldnt just kill on sight they would want to see what you have to offer.  In real life, the best groups would be all kinds of people with all kinds of skill sets.  If everyone in a group was a good soldier, who is going to help them track food, or locate clean water or fix something like a car engine?  

 

Yeah yeah, some people are going to flame me for this but hey, you are not the best at what you do and there are things that you cannot do.

Well there won't be a perk or skill system as said by rocket before. There are however going to be tons of ways to fix things medically, mechanically and more. One simply cannot learn everything and has to specialize, wait for it! Their BRAIN to learn the skills themselves, so in a way the skill system is your own brain, memorizing the stuff you need to fix things or to inspect a sick person to know if he needs meds and which meds.

A skill system to push your character in one direction is simply to stiff, with yourself learning the ropes, you can go anyway "you" want and not what the game predefined system wants.

If you want to be a medic, well learn all about the medical gear, what is what, what does what, who needs what?

You want to be a soldier, learn all about the military gear, where do you find it, how do you use it?

You wan't to become a chef cook? learn about all the herbs, food, meat, what you need to cook it with?

 

Well i think you get my point, it's just learning it yourself :), a skill allot of people seem to have lost in the gaming world because of the spoon-feeding(not directly pointed towards you, no offence).

[Mark Darkers 151]

?

Edited June 9, 2014 by Mark Darkers

[Rigor Mortis (DayZ) 141]

Well there won't be a perk or skill system as said by rocket before. There are however going to be tons of ways to fix things medically, mechanically and more. One simply cannot learn everything and has to specialize, wait for it! Their BRAIN to learn the skills themselves, so in a way the skill system is your own brain, memorizing the stuff you need to fix things or to inspect a sick person to know if he needs meds and which meds.

Why learn anything when you have religion? With your system I can be an expert at anything instantly by praying to the almighty Google.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

.

 

If you want to be a medic, well learn all about the medical gear, what is what, what does what, who needs what?

You want to be a soldier, learn all about the military gear, where do you find it, how do you use it?

You wan't to become a chef cook? learn about all the herbs, food, meat, what you need to cook it with?

 

Well i think you get my point, it's just learning it yourself :), a skill allot of people seem to have lost in the gaming world because of the spoon-feeding(not directly pointed towards you, no offence).

 

If you want to be a medic, well learn all about the medical gear, what is what, what does what, who needs what?

You want to be a soldier, learn all about the military gear, where do you find it, how do you use it?

You wan't to become a chef cook? learn about all the herbs, food, meat, what you need to cook it with?

 

Well i think you get my point, it's just learning it yourself :), a skill allot of people seem to have lost in the gaming world because of the spoon-feeding(not directly pointed towards you, no offence).

 

Why learn anything when you have religion? With your system I can be an expert at anything instantly by praying to the almighty Google.

 

 

Exactly as Rigor just said.

 

There's so little in the game that you don't need to define yourself as a medic it's not hard to remember that charcoal pills are for food poisoning or that bandages are an instant cure for bleeding, you can't be anything in this game you can only pretend.

 

Where with a skill progression system you can be a medic, you can use medical supplies often so that you can apply them faster and more effectively than others in your group, whereas they could go down a marksman route having less movement when holding a gun.

I don't think it should ever be that you can only go one route, everyone should be able to get the skills of a medic, marksman and whatever else it should just take like 200 hours of surviving, shooting, healing yourself and others etc etc.

 

 

so to bring this back on topic at hand, i dont think our dayz character should be good at shooting, and i dont think he should become better at shooting over time. this also means i am not against artificial dispersion - because no matter how skilled you are as a mouse-keyboard jockey, your character shouldnt be able to use military arms as efficiently as a veteran specops soldier - not on first day, and not after two weeks in the wilderness.

 

What sense does it make that you wouldn't get better at shooting? The longer you survive the better you get at it, the more you do anything the better you get at it, why should it not be like that in a game that's main purpose is to be as realistic as possible?

 

You should start unable to use weapons properly at all, taking a long time to put magazines in maybe even having to work out what way they go in, a total noob. Not just have bad aim but otherwise can do everything perfectly that makes no sense.

 

In the beginning if you get a bad cut it shouldn't be a case of selecting bandages/rags and then clicking then you're done, there should be moments of error where you haven't stopped the bleeding quite yet or maybe you need to sit and hold your wound for a while(since everyone knows to keep pressure on them from the movies)

 

Progression would keep it fresh.

 

I'm more interested in that than professions but those would be great too, I mean what is your character? He's not you, he doesn't have your skills he's just some blank template human who for some reason knows how to do everything very efficiently.

The current learning process in the game amounts to:

Ask someone how to do something

Randomly combine items

Ask Google

 

And then when you've done it once huzzah you're an expert and it only took a few clicks.

Edited June 10, 2014 by UltimateGentleman