Perks/skills/professions/stats

[Powell (DayZ) 734]

I don't think classes have a place in DayZ, personally. Your gear should define who you are

[captainvette2112 84]

No thanks

[Katana67 2907]

But you can't just get better at anything except aiming you can't control how well your character aims a weapon and deals with recoil, you can't control how fast and efficiently they apply bandages your real world reflexes to be used in game are only good for aiming and running around to dodge people's bullets.

 

So they need to do something with it.

 

The % was just an arbitrary measurement really however it still works ok, I don't think you should know what % you're at for anything in game just like how you don't know you blood count etc but there should be a maximum.

Virtually no recoil for most guns, hardly any sway etc it sounds fine to me.

 

I'm all for adding value to life too but no matter how you play there's no guarantee you'll last long, having to build up each skill slowly would take forever and if it didn't then that's not at all realistic. So there needs to be both.

 

 

In real life, thrown in to a zombie apocalypse situation I am better with guns than the average person but I don't know how to use medical supplies that well where some guy I find could have been a doctor who can keep healthy easily.

The game should be like that everyone needs to have some unique variety to them as everyone does in real life.

 

Currently the only variety is the few guns and personality nothing is all that difficult, so with classes that don't just know how to effectively use guns immediately they face a disadvantage they have to overcome.

Everyone starting the same is just boring and you have no real individuality in the game people with the same gear set are identical in every way they use guns the same and can hold the same amount of stuff but with a class and skill system you might look the same but be very very different.

 

Would add some more tension to gameplay too like as a fresh spawn maybe you find a pistol and ammo then see some armed to the teeth too, he looks like an Infantryman so he could annihilate you and your shaky hands, but what if he isn't? Maybe his hands are shaky too.

 

Errr... yes, you can. That's what the shooting mechanic allows you to do, manage recoil and aim accurately. Hell, even managing stance and post-movement sway is a huge issue.

 

Right, you can't control how fast and efficiently they apply bandages. So why don't we work on that? Implement systems (caveman term, minigames) so that they're demonstration of a player's abilities. Rather than just "Use" and the character goes about accomplishing the task in a fixed animation.

 

And that also acts as a solution for the detriment you cite in "building skills up slowly," the character doesn't change... the player him/herself gets better, not the character. The trouble is, there are a lot of ACTIONS in DayZ but not a lot of ACTIVITIES. And moreover, not a lot of activities that require input from the player. That is the approach that I believe they need to take.

 

Want to get better at changing tires? Learn how to seat lug nuts and torque them down rapidly and effectively.

 

Want to get better at bandaging? Learn how to identify the location of a wound, address it properly, inject whatever painkillers are necessary in whatever location is needed. 

 

Point being, mechanics can be implemented to demonstrate individual skill in the form of an activity. Case in simple point, the reload mechanic of Gears of War. Player awareness and timing are key to get a full-speed reload. That's a very, very, very rudimentary example of what I'm talking about.

 

Rather than having a vague "skill" system, they need to approach it from a standpoint of player input into activities.

 

As to your last point, I don't think aesthetics should be a factor in any scenario other than personal assessment. A bandit could be dressed as a priest, and a hero could be dressed as a skull-carrying death dealer. That's what's great about DayZ, not knowing.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Katana67

[ElEmil89 5]

So, I know there is a big ressistance to add a "level-system" to dayz. How ever, how about adding a learning curve for specific skills? Here are a few examples:

- Opening boxes will loose a lot of food when opened in beginning. When player get more experienc with doing this less will be lost (realistic)
- If hydrated and energized sprint speed and cardio will improve over time (realistic). 
- the more you shoot at a target (hunting, zombies, players (or add the function: shooting ranges) the more accurate you get.

- recoil and reload times can be trained by using the gun

- If using melee you will be faster and more accurate over time (as you would in real-life)

- adding nerves. First time you are in a gun fight there will be a lot of shaking and maybe tunnel vision. The more action the character experiences the cooler the nerves. Just like we see in experiences vs. inexperienced soliders

Good suggestions from this thread:

- Add a learning curve to specific weapon. 

 

My point with this is not to make Dayz a rpg, but add elements that would occur in real life. If there was a zombie invasjon to morrow. How would you develop? In my case:
- I would run more in a week than I have done in my life. Will my cardio improve? YES
- I will touch a gun for a first time. Will I rapidly become better at using it? YES
- I try to opening boxes with random tools. Is that a challenge at first? YES
- The first time I`m beeing attacked. Will I panic? YES
- I have hold in an axe 3 times in my life chopping wood. Will my axe-fighting skills improve if I kill with it? YES
- I have never hunted in my life. Will I improve doing it? YES

What do you guys think?

Edited May 5, 2014 by ElEmil89

[w1lg5r 70]

Good idea, it would increase reason to survive for long periods. Reload time could be mostly specific to experience with certain gun types e.g. pistols, shotguns, etc.

[INoEmo 29]

Or even better, have it with each individual gun.  Just because you have reloaded 1 pistol doesn't mean you have reloaded them all, same with accuracy and everything.  Would make people think a bit before just ditching the gun they have used for the last hour.

 

How about attack speed with melee weapons increased after a bit?

[bn3 3]

or you could just find a weapon a inventory full of ammo and shoot at nothing and reload for no reason infinatly until you are maxed in the skill

nice thinking but too exploitable 

[Element47 2481]

to me, part of the appeal of dayz is that everybody is presented with the same framework, and it is the players experience which counts, not the experience of the avatar. originally, dayz prided itself that the average lifetime of a character was below one hour. with such a concept, there is no place for long-time character progression. its the gamer at the controls who should get better, not his virtual reprsentation.

[yogi92 50]

to me, part of the appeal of dayz is that everybody is presented with the same framework, and it is the players experience which counts, not the experience of the avatar. originally, dayz prided itself that the average lifetime of a character was below one hour. with such a concept, there is no place for long-time character progression. its the gamer at the controls who should get better, not his virtual reprsentation.

 

You're right in a way, but then again, if you don't aim for long-time character's life, we will have plenty of KoS and constant suicides, because you have nothing to loose except for that fancy flatcap and a flashlight.

Of course it's your experience, not character's that counts, but if it were you, you would learn something. You, as a player, cannot learn for your character. Because of this, I think there should be some minor progression involved so that our avatar's life gets some meaning.

 

 

or you could just find a weapon a inventory full of ammo and shoot at nothing and reload for no reason infinatly until you are maxed in the skill

nice thinking but too exploitable 

 

And here we are again at a big problem of dayz - guns and ammunition are more popular then food or clothes. But it's an alpha of course, so it needs to be tested thoroughly. Once everything works as it should, ammunition should be really rare (like "I'm glad to have this 10 bullets for my SKS" rare). This way certain aspects of your character's development won't be grindable and you will value it's life.

Edited May 5, 2014 by yogi92

[BeefBacon 1185]

 so it needs to be testes thoroughly

 

That's an unfortunate typo.

 

I quite like this idea. Perhaps your weapon skill only increases if you actually hit a target? Would make it much harder to exploit. Plus I assume that ammo will become far less common in future, so people are unlikely to want to waste ammo on random zombies.

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Errr... yes, you can. That's what the shooting mechanic allows you to do, manage recoil and aim accurately. Hell, even managing stance and post-movement sway is a huge issue.

 

Right, you can't control how fast and efficiently they apply bandages. So why don't we work on that? Implement systems (caveman term, minigames) so that they're demonstration of a player's abilities. Rather than just "Use" and the character goes about accomplishing the task in a fixed animation.

 

And that also acts as a solution for the detriment you cite in "building skills up slowly," the character doesn't change... the player him/herself gets better, not the character. The trouble is, there are a lot of ACTIONS in DayZ but not a lot of ACTIVITIES. And moreover, not a lot of activities that require input from the player. That is the approach that I believe they need to take.

 

Want to get better at changing tires? Learn how to seat lug nuts and torque them down rapidly and effectively.

 

Want to get better at bandaging? Learn how to identify the location of a wound, address it properly, inject whatever painkillers are necessary in whatever location is needed. 

 

Point being, mechanics can be implemented to demonstrate individual skill in the form of an activity. Case in simple point, the reload mechanic of Gears of War. Player awareness and timing are key to get a full-speed reload. That's a very, very, very rudimentary example of what I'm talking about.

 

Rather than having a vague "skill" system, they need to approach it from a standpoint of player input into activities.

 

As to your last point, I don't think aesthetics should be a factor in any scenario other than personal assessment. A bandit could be dressed as a priest, and a hero could be dressed as a skull-carrying death dealer. That's what's great about DayZ, not knowing.

 

But it's not at all difficult to aim and shoot especially not since you only need a couple of bullets from most guns, with an M4 at appropriate distance before the barrel climbs like at all you've already killed the victim anyway it takes no real skill, that's why people like shooting games with a keyboad and mouse because it's extremely easy.

Someone not used to shooting would have an aching shoulder, not know how to hold the gun properly and not know how to use it efficiently overall.

That's where the classes come in they can give you a slight bonus in one field to give you a headstart in one area then you can develop other skills. As a medic you don't need to worry about bandaging being slow, so you can work on your combat.

 

 

There is no sense of individuality in the game other than personality nobody has different kind of talents or is particularly good at anything other than shooting and it's retarded everyone in a group is the same, there's no value to not wearing the best equipment. There basically already is a class and it's so standard and boring everyone gets the same kind of backpack, hunter backpack usually for fighting, M4 and whatever else they choose to carry.

 

There's a huge lack of variety and even they add more guns, there will always be a single best gun that everyone will get save for a minority.

But if someone was a Scout, they could take out people with said best gun at distance with finesse obliterating their advantage.

 

Nobody with a class is "better" than anyone else all it does is add more depth to your personal preferences, if you like sniping best, Scout is for you, if you like being well stocked, Scavenger is for you.

 

 

I like the sound of activities too but I'm not sure how they would work. I mean there will always be issues with lag and whatnot which will interfere greatly and possibly make you fail even though you pressed buttons correctly.

Button commands could be decent enough.

Banages for example:

T for a head wound

F and H for arms

G for torso

V and B for legs.

After locating wound, G to apply bandage then tap F and H to wrap it round.

 

 

I like the idea of that but still I think a combo of things we've discussed would be best, you might now how to more efficiently pack a bag than someone else but you can't cross that over in to the game and it just feels so limited.

[degude 133]

I totally support this idea

[UltimateGentleman 355]

A class system wouldn't work since it would limit players too much. I wouldn't mind a system where as you kill more zeds/people with a certain weapon your accuracy gets better with it (up to a certain point) but not a class system.

 

The same as what I mean really.

By class I really mean start skill not something you have over every other player who isn't in your class. Infantryman just start good with assault rifles, shotguns and pistols. In all other areas they're just as weak as the other classes, so they have to build up their skills with medical supplies, crafting etc.

 

Basically you just pick what your guy is good at when you spawn, this is more what I mean not like Battlefield where only Support classes can throw down ammo for people.

EDIT everyone can get to the point where they're great with guns, using medical supplies and crafting but you have to build those area's up.

Not everything needs to be as I described in the OP but something along the same lines would add that nice bit of variety.

Edited May 5, 2014 by UltimateGentleman

[liquidsnake 275]

That'd be a nay from me. I don't think perks would go well with DayZ. I like to see everyone as equals, with an equal chance of surviving in any situation. All that identifies the player is gear. However, seeing some sort of class system based on what your char has experienced and learned while surviving could be good if done right. It'd add value to players' lives, which is always a good thing. But definitely no advantage when it comes to combat. I'd hate to die JUST because my killer picked a different class. 

[UltimateGentleman 355]

No I got that.

What I meant was everyone should just start equal with no class.

So If I pick up an SKS and kill 10 zeds my accuracy goes up a little. Then if I drop it and pick up an m4 my accuracy with that weapon is as if I just spawned until I get more kills. But if I pick up an SKS again my accuracy with it is still improved from killing those 10 zeds.

 

So simulating practice is essentially what I'm getting at.

 

Yeah but that would be reset with each character and that assumes you have enough ammo to train yourself up so the idea is good but in practice you wouldn't be able to train things up unless your character lived for a very long time, which you should be rewarded for of course but I think being skilled in all areas would be enough of a reward, you'll be able to reload faster than someone who spawned an hour ago and found an M4 even if they're an Infantryman, you've taken a few shots already so your character is also tougher than theirs and you can apply first aid faster.

 

Your not immortal but if you've put the effort in your character shows it.

Without the class system as well as skill system it would take too long and you'd have to just keep away from people to survive, lack of interaction in this game is already an issue, that would make it worse on it's own.

 

You can pretend you're a medic or whatever you want as roleplay but even though you're pretending your this doctor guy the only difference is that you have more medical supplies than other people, even though a medic/doctor would use them much better.

So roleplaying is good and all but actually being able to have a role that isn't acting would be better in my opinion.

 

 

That'd be a nay from me. I don't think perks would go well with DayZ. I like to see everyone as equals, with an equal chance of surviving in any situation. All that identifies the player is gear. However, seeing some sort of class system based on what your char has experienced and learned while surviving could be good if done right. It'd add value to players' lives, which is always a good thing. But definitely no advantage when it comes to combat. I'd hate to die JUST because my killer picked a different class.

 

Yeah I've developed the idea bit since the first post so not class unique perks just starting skills everyone can have with some effort.

Infantryman might think they're the ultimate class to start with, but a Scout can avoid them easily so it's all still balanced and equal it just depends on how you play the game.

 

I think just a skill system would be too slow or unrealistically fast, use a banadage 5 times then you can use it in half a second? Or use a bandage 40 times for that? On it's own a gradual skill system would be too flawed I feel, you and a friend could just safely shoot and heal each other until you're great with an M4 and great at healing yourself.

Edited May 5, 2014 by UltimateGentleman

[rickyspanish 158]

I thought about this sort of thing the other day, Originally I was against the idea but after playing project zomboid I started to like the idea of choosing your characters pre-apocalypse occupation. Things like maybe he was a doctor or a hunter and having some benefits fitting to there previous life, I mean take the doctor for example, say you become injured and your not a doctor and you need one to overcome it. You come across somebody and they could be a doctor you don't know for sure but maybe you could detain them and find out, and they either willingly or you force them to help you. I think that could add a lot of value to life.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Ricky Spanish

[UltimateGentleman 355]

I thought about this sort of thing the other day, Originally I was against the idea but after playing project zomboid I started to like the idea of choosing your characters pre-apocalypse occupation. Things like maybe he was a doctor or a hunter and having some benefits fitting to there previous life, I mean take the doctor for example, say you become injured and your not a doctor and you need one to overcome it. You come across somebody and they could be a doctor you don't know for sure but maybe you could detain them and find out, and they either willingly or you force them to help you. I think that could add a lot of value to life.

 

 

Yeah so while you might think being an Infantryman in a group of them is going to give you a huge advantage if any of your guys get injured they're not as immediately effective at healing themselves or anyone else.

And with the skill system a group of guys having an advantage in close range gun fights are going to need to survive a lot of battles before their medical skills are up to scratch, so when they get to the point where they're good with guns and supplies, even if they're bandits they deserve the extra efficiency for surviving so long.

 

Obviously people would complain and call this cheating but it makes a lot of realistic sense and realism is what this game is about, plus there'd still be the basic class for people who want to start from the bottom.

[IamDinner 28]

works in breaking point.

 

would allow people to quickly identify bandits or survivors.

 

Each should have benefits and penalties.

 

It seems that identifying people sort of defeats one of the aspects of the game and that is suspense.

 

If you know who you are approaching and what they are about there goes any chance of tension you already know what you will do the second you see them.

 

I don't want to know who I am approaching. I want each encounter with a stranger to be a variable. I don't want to know the outcome from an icon or an image or identifing mark.

[AlphaDogMeat . 493]

A Chaotic Neutral Burger-flipper appears!

[real meatshield 424]

Classes are cool in BP but its a different game altogether. DayZ is supposed to be much more freeform; excel with what you have available, not by relying on an ability inherent to a "class."

[ElEmil89 5]

or you could just find a weapon a inventory full of ammo and shoot at nothing and reload for no reason infinatly until you are maxed in the skill

nice thinking but too exploitable 

1. This would be the same in real life; the more you practise reload, the faster you can do it.

2. When it comes to aiming, its possible to add the curve when ex. go hunting or attack players/zombies. Also the possibility to add shooting ranges etc. 

3. Ammo is always a lack. 

[Gdaddy22 299]

or you could just find a weapon a inventory full of ammo and shoot at nothing and reload for no reason infinatly until you are maxed in the skill

nice thinking but too exploitable 

>implying you will be able to find so much ammo that you can waste it like moron

[UltimateGentleman 355]

Classes are cool in BP but its a different game altogether. DayZ is supposed to be much more freeform; excel with what you have available, not by relying on an ability inherent to a "class."

 

But you can't "excel" at anything everyone is always at the same level and it just becomes a really dry experience after a while the only thing you can be better than someone at in this game is shooting, which is not difficult at all unless trying to hit someone running around you.

[kichilron 8550]

 

 

 

Merged.

 

Make sure to search and check already existing Suggestions.

[alldaypk 63]

or you could just find a weapon a inventory full of ammo and shoot at nothing and reload for no reason infinatly until you are maxed in the skill

nice thinking but too exploitable 

 

Isn't that what people do at ranges?