Dean Hall On PvE

[The_Monk 320]

AI will never give you the same tension as humans. AI is predictable, humans are not.

[mgc 92]

AI will never give you the same tension as humans. AI is predictable, humans are not.

Predictable or not, they can still be the bigger threat and threat causes tension.

[pacific_coast 632]

is he talking about pvp or pve?

 

i dont get it

 

no "features" mentioned that would decrease kos and make players team up against the environment (pve = player vs environment/everything)

 

bloody hands from touching corpses is pvp related

 

dirty water supplies is world interaction

 

"this feature, called feature x, will encourage players to PVE" that was not stated and i still dont get what you're trying to say other than pve is good/you want more of it?

 

that comes from pve features,

like better zombies and reasons to group together,

not forced ones like

"you need another person next to you at all times because you're both constantly dying and healing each other"

or

"there are so many respawning zombies that one-shot you you have to team up to loot a town"

[The_Monk 320]

Predictable or not, they can still be the bigger threat and threat causes tension.

 

That is the point, they will never be the bigger threat. An AI will always act the same way, you figure out its patterns and you work out how to neutralise that threat the easiest way.

 

You can almost never predict how a player or group of player will react to a certain scenario. Run when they should fight, fight when they should run.

 

That unpredictability creates tension.

[pacific_coast 632]

That is the point, they will never be the bigger threat. An AI will always act the same way, you figure out its patterns and you work out how to neutralise that threat the easiest way.

 

You can almost never predict how a player or group of player will react to a certain scenario. Run when they should fight, fight when they should run.

 

That unpredictability creates tension.

then remove zombies from this game if the only pve-interaction we get is the "tension" before we start shooting at each other

[The_Monk 320]

then remove zombies from this game if the only pve-interaction we get is the "tension" before we start shooting at each other

 

I didn't suggest that, you're grasping at straws there.

[The_Monk 320]

Zombies add a lot to the game, but if I just want to fight zombies with a bunch of people to back me up that I am not meant to shoot at, I'll play left 4 dead.

[pacific_coast 632]

if zombies will never be the focal point of the pve experience

 

then what is the point of having them?

 

they sure don't add atmosphere, or challenge or anything but a waste of time and resources in game

 

it is a logical jump to make

 

if the pvp tension is what makes this game effective, then remove this pve annoyance calling itself zombies

Edited March 31, 2014 by pacific_coast

[mgc 92]

they will never be the bigger threat. An AI will always act the same way, you figure out its patterns and you work out how to neutralise that threat the easiest way.

What if the easiest way turns out to be very hard?

I think the voices in your head are short on imagination.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

Yep if the PvP is the point of DayZ then cooking, eating, drinking and other events are just waste of resources.

[The_Monk 320]

Player interaction not PVP is the point of DayZ.

 

PVE only servers, your entire player interaction will be saying "Hey" as you walk past them.

 

Normal, non pussy servers, player interaction can be a heavily geared guy begging a fresh spawn for a blood transfusion, a gunfight in elektro, a trade deal, giving a gun to fresh spawn and not knowing if they are going to shoot you in the back, killing a group of bandits harassing people, or being that group of bandits.

 

 

I'm all for zombies being retardedly hard, one punch killing machines that run for days. Won't stop me planting a high calibre rifle round in someones chest when I need to exfil, or kneecapping someone so that the zombies eat them and not me.

[StoutAle 69]

"The real core experience is the real tension DayZ provided and that's provided by the other players."

 

It should be provided mainly by the Z, not primarily by the other players. The latter is DayZ in its current state and it's not enough.

 

We currently have this, Hall doesn't like it he's said so.  If he truly wants what he said in that quote then he doesn't need to change a thing.  Clearly he's not happy with all the KoS (which is the cause of tension with players) so for anyone to suggest everything he said in that clip is what will happen is simply wrong.

 

Oh and lets be completely honest, games go where the money is and Dean is leaving we all know that so his thinking and concepts only hold so much weight anyway doesn't it?  Dean said he's not a fan of PvE, Dean is leaving.  The next guy might believe money is more important and realize that having some PvE servers will make them more money and not hurt a damn thing to the people that want to not use them (characters not being transferable from one to the other of course).  I have yet to see a game that wasn't swayed by the bottom line of money, this game will not be any different.  Deans visions, concepts, hopes, dreams and promises for the game are temporary because he's said he's not staying so again quoting him and acting like it's fact forever doesn't work.  Quoting him from Oct of 2012 really doesn't make it solid fact, like anything else it's what he sees at the time and if you asked him if the game is working as intended he's already said no so things will change it's the nature of making a game.

[cels 43]

There would be too many issues with pve only servers..

I could come up with many ways to grief someone if I really wanted thats on a pve server. Since you wouldnt be able to do anything to me, you would just have to deal with it..

Trying to build a base? How about I just drive my vehicle right into it.. Could build a wall around your wall so even you cant get into it..

Have a bunch of gear in your tent? Not anymore...

Could just as well lead packs of zombies at you constantly...

I can think of quite a few things that could be done on a pve only server which would leave the person unable to do anything but sit and watch, also in some case, would probably get them killed as well..

Edited March 31, 2014 by cels

[krebsy 11]

For pve to work there has to be an ethos within the game that working together can grant you benefits that CANNOT be found individually or will take a huge amount of time to do individually. As an example, base building would be quick and easy if one person was holding the fence panel up whilst another hammered it into place. To do it by yourself you'd need to make a wooden support frame first then rest the panel up against it instead so taking at least twice as long. Or when there are vehicles, you'd need a buddy to manhandle a large heavy item into the back ie an ammo press or a water tank. the need or ability to drag items together to secure a site would help build a community group in the game.

Lone wolves could still survive alone, but groups would get benefits by working together. Ie the water tank and a tarpaulin plus some tubing gives you a rain trap which gives you free clean water but you need to defend it collectively. Need some bullets? Go get a petrol can and pour it into the groups generator so the electricity runs the press (and the lights) and spits out rounds for everyone to use.

I'd love to log onto a server at night to see the distant glow of lights at the top of tower blocks with groups of traders moving inbetween, or the flash of tracer fire as one block went to war with another :).

K.

[pacific_coast 632]

the only way "pve" works is by turning on friendly fire.

then the game's "player interaction" becomes:

 

"hey do you have food/meds/drink/blood? no? ok cya"

 

as apposed to now, which is:

 

"hey are you... POW."

[The_Monk 320]

as apposed to now, which is:

 

"hey are you... POW."

 

Around 1/10 of my player interactions involve gunfire. The majority involve the exchange of goods either cordially or by force.

 

So long as you avoid running up to people and yelling friendly in their faces, you get shot at and or have to shoot people a lot less.

 

Elektro is the exception. If you go there, you are going there to die or kill people.

[agentneo 337]

"The real core experience is the real tension DayZ provided and that's provided by the other players."

 

- NOT BEEN KOS BY OTHER PLAYERS

 

Some people play for the exploration, Communication, Commardary, NOT FUCKING KOS

 

Your ignorance is bliss

[The_Monk 320]

- NOT BEEN KOS BY OTHER PLAYERS

 

Some people play for the exploration, Communication, Commardary, NOT FUCKING KOS

 

Your ignorance is bliss

 

To get killed on sight, you have to be seen. Don't assume the man with the assault rifle is friendly just because you are.

[pacific_coast 632]

To get killed on sight, you have to be seen. Don't assume the man with the assault rifle is friendly just because you are.

please.

 

lemme guess you play low pops, avoid all towns cities and if you do you're proning in 3pp and combat logging the second you hear gunfire?

 

either you're for player interaction, which means a LOT of kos, or you're some kind of solo ninja avoiding everything, or you're a clanner and running with 5+ people with m4's isn't really "avoiding" shit and is looking for action

[The_Monk 320]

please.

 

lemme guess you play low pops, avoid all towns cities and if you do you're proning in 3pp and combat logging the second you hear gunfire?

 

either you're for player interaction, which means a LOT of kos, or you're some kind of solo ninja avoiding everything, or you're a clanner and running with 5+ people with m4's isn't really "avoiding" shit and is looking for action

 

I play with 0-3 people, hang around the coast giving gear to fresh spawns and smashing barracks rats that think hunting fresh spawns is a valid use of their ammunition. The lowest pop servers I enjoy are around 25. The game is pointless without player interaction.

 

I'm as stealthy as a drunken elephant until a combat situation, whether I am on my own or in a group, I run down the middle of the road with a mosin in my hands. The M4 is about as pointless as yelling at the enemy and hoping they get scared and leave.

[pacific_coast 632]

I play with 0-3 people, hang around the coast giving gear to fresh spawns and smashing barracks rats that think hunting fresh spawns is a valid use of their ammunition. The lowest pop servers I enjoy are around 25. The game is pointless without player interaction.

 

I'm as stealthy as a drunken elephant until a combat situation, whether I am on my own or in a group, I run down the middle of the road with a mosin in my hands. The M4 is about as pointless as yelling at the enemy and hoping they get scared and leave.

oh.

"stealthy" RP clanner playing hero with an LRS mosin on the coast.

 

moving on to valid poster...

 

 

the only tension lasts about 5 seconds, the time it takes to see how geared the other player is and weather to run or shoot

 

unless you are solo, you don't know jack fucking shit about getting kos'd while trying to "interact" in a friendly manner.

 

that's why i kos exclusively, fuck this interaction bullshit

Edited March 31, 2014 by pacific_coast

[The_Monk 320]

oh.

"stealthy" RP clanner playing hero with an LRS mosin on the coast.

 

moving on to valid poster...

 

No clan, just whoever I bump into. Mosin with iron sights is much more effective than LRS. I normally roll with a single friend of mine I met by not shooting him in the face.

 

 

If anyone calls me a hero, they take a round. That is the stupidest term ever, closely followed by bambi.

 

The majority of DayZ players are terrible shots, I feel no fear in the middle of the street because nobody can lead a target for shit. I tell people to stay out of sight because I see a lot of people die because they run up to kitted army guys expecting them to give away gear and be super friendly. Then come here to winge about KOS.

[pacific_coast 632]

the point of this thread is "pve is there, you just have to try for it" and the players keep saying "nope, mostly just kos"

 

grouping/clanning against other players isn't pve... its pvp.

 

grouping/clanning to help other players isn't pve... it's being a carebear/tryhard/roleplayhero

[The_Monk 320]

Also, how you dress effects how much you get shot at.

 

Generic army dude with an assault rifle, green everything and a big backpack is going to get killed.

 

 

 

Throw away all that unnecessary gear and I find a lot less people shoot at you.

 

My preferred kit looks something like this:

 

I have everything I need to defend myself/survive in a small backpack and no big bulky vest.

[kichilron 8550]

- NOT BEEN KOS BY OTHER PLAYERS

 

Some people play for the exploration, Communication, Commardary, NOT FUCKING KOS

 

Your ignorance is bliss

 

 

oh.

"stealthy" RP clanner playing hero with an LRS mosin on the coast.

 

moving on to valid poster...

 

 

the only tension lasts about 5 seconds, the time it takes to see how geared the other player is and weather to run or shoot

 

unless you are solo, you don't know jack fucking shit about getting kos'd while trying to "interact" in a friendly manner.

 

that's why i kos exclusively, fuck this interaction bullshit

 

 

I suppose it's time we all calm down a little and come back when we have had a nice milk.