Dean Hall On PvE

[StoutAle 69]

Around 1/10 of my player interactions involve gunfire. The majority involve the exchange of goods either cordially or by force.

 

So long as you avoid running up to people and yelling friendly in their faces, you get shot at and or have to shoot people a lot less.

 

Elektro is the exception. If you go there, you are going there to die or kill people.

 

 

I play with 0-3 people, hang around the coast giving gear to fresh spawns and smashing barracks rats that think hunting fresh spawns is a valid use of their ammunition. The lowest pop servers I enjoy are around 25. The game is pointless without player interaction.

 

I'm as stealthy as a drunken elephant until a combat situation, whether I am on my own or in a group, I run down the middle of the road with a mosin in my hands. The M4 is about as pointless as yelling at the enemy and hoping they get scared and leave.

 

Your telling us that only 1/10th of your player interaction on servers with at least 25 people while hanging around on the coast involves gunfire? I will never say your lying because I don't watch you play, but anyone with anytime on this game that plays on high pop servers on the coast would question this a bit.  Again not saying your lying, but I'm saying I'm thinking your numbers might be a bit exaggerated to make the story sound better.

[The_Monk 320]

the point of this thread is "pve is there, you just have to try for it" and the players keep saying "nope, mostly just kos"

 

grouping/clanning against other players isn't pve... its pvp.

 

grouping/clanning to help other players isn't pve... it's being a carebear/tryhard/roleplayhero

 

Most people's argument for PVE is that PVP is bad and player interactions should all involve hugging and kissing.

 

PVP /= KOS

 

PVP is any interaction where there is a chance of a fight, so any interaction. You take away that chance of a fight and you get the Rust issue of watching some guy fuck up your shit and you not being able to do anything about it.

 

Then you get the PVE servers that you aren't allowed to go near other peoples bases, rob from tents, take vehicles.

[The_Monk 320]

Your telling us that only 1/10th of your player interaction on servers with at least 25 people while hanging around on the coast involves gunfire? I will never say your lying because I don't watch you play, but anyone with anytime on this game that plays on high pop servers on the coast would question this a bit.  Again not saying your lying, but I'm saying I'm thinking your numbers might be a bit exaggerated to make the story sound better.

 

No exaggeration at all. Again, Elektro is the exception. It is its own little hell on earth.

[pacific_coast 632]

Your telling us that only 1/10th of your player interaction on servers with at least 25 people while hanging around on the coast involves gunfire? I will never say your lying because I don't watch you play, but anyone with anytime on this game that plays on high pop servers on the coast would question this a bit.  Again not saying your lying, but I'm saying I'm thinking your numbers might be a bit exaggerated to make the story sound better.

there are players that want to BELIEVE THINGS WILL GET BETTER

 

but it wont!

 

"pve" is being broadly, broadly re-defined here

 

good pve means "the zombies work and are a threat and kos becomes an afterthought"

 

...

i will personally camp beaches with as550 TWS just to prove how broken this game is at it's core when it comes to "teamwork"

 

pvp stands for player versus player and is a gametype that means the players are always at odds with one another

dayz is a pvp game with pve elements: those elements are the zombies

Edited March 31, 2014 by pacific_coast

[makomachine 263]

there are players that want to BELIEVE THINGS WILL GET BETTER

 

but it wont for me!

 

"pve" is being broadly, broadly re-defined here

 

good pve means "the zombies work and are a threat and kos becomes an afterthought" in my opinion

 

...

i will personally throw a tantrum like a 5 year old and camp beaches with as550 TWS just to prove how broken this game is at it's core when it comes to "teamwork" for me.

Fixed it for you. :)

[pacific_coast 632]

Fixed it for you. :)

please define pve in dayz "in your opinion" wise one

the fact that it is possible to beach rape with a thermal scoped weapon shows you how "pve-centric" this game is.

 

its one big long drawn out pvp deathmatch with filler annoying zombies getting in the way of that

Edited March 31, 2014 by pacific_coast

[StoutAle 69]

No exaggeration at all. Again, Elektro is the exception. It is its own little hell on earth.

 

Again I wouldn't say your lying, I will say your the exception by far not the rule.  I got shot twice in two days both not in Electro both in smaller towns and both were KoS.  I almost never meet someone that doesn't shoot me as soon as they see me.  That said, no I don't wear a mask of any kind.  I don't usually have on a ballistic helmet, I never use a mosin on my solo guy (the guy that was killed recently).  My "loadout" the last two times consisted of a pitchfork once and a sporter the other.  Hardly a hardcore killer in the making.  Again you are simply very lucky. 

[makomachine 263]

please define pve in dayz "in your opinion" wise one

the fact that it is possible to beach rape with a thermal scoped weapon shows you how "pve-centric" this game is.

 

its one big long drawn out pvp deathmatch with filler annoying zombies getting in the way of that

Again, in your opinion. First, there is no thermal scope in SA, so going to disregard that point. The game currently leans heavily to "deathmatch" at the moment - we agree on that point. We don't agree on fortune teller speculation that the developers will/won't find a way to balance the game in the future. Zeds are an environmental factor. There will be others and much enhancement in that area. Deathmatch is driven by bore dome for many people. Speculating what a game will and won't be at this point is just opinion, that's my point....

[The_Monk 320]

Again I wouldn't say your lying, I will say your the exception by far not the rule.  I got shot twice in two days both not in Electro both in smaller towns and both were KoS.  I almost never meet someone that doesn't shoot me as soon as they see me.  That said, no I don't wear a mask of any kind.  I don't usually have on a ballistic helmet, I never use a mosin on my solo guy (the guy that was killed recently).  My "loadout" the last two times consisted of a pitchfork once and a sporter the other.  Hardly a hardcore killer in the making.  Again you are simply very lucky. 

 

I'm curious to know if it is a culture difference. I play with Australians and New Zealanders. KOS seems to be the exception not the rule unless you play at just after school time, the kids come out to screech "faggot" at you.

 

I've avoided many a sketchy situation just by talking to people and or bluffing saying that they are being watched by my non existent backup.

[StoutAle 69]

Again, in your opinion. First, there is no thermal scope in SA, so going to disregard that point. The game currently leans heavily to "deathmatch" at the moment - we agree on that point. We don't agree on fortune teller speculation that the developers will/won't find a way to balance the game in the future. Zeds are an environmental factor. There will be others and much enhancement in that area. Deathmatch is driven by bore dome for many people. Speculating what a game will and won't be at this point is just opinion, that's my point....

 

 

I also disagree with you on this.  Every open PvP game I have ever seen (even games with PvP only servers or PvP only areas) always turn into death matches.  PvP draws that type of crowd in every game.  Toss in the fact this is a hardcore game overall (meaning when you die you start over from nothing) and it's going to always draw people that simply like to grief and when you have people like that you will have people that simply kill everyone because they won't take a chance the person they meet isn't going to just kill them.  Now the percentage of either of them two types of people might not even make up the vast majority but as we have seen in this game the number just increases.

 

Now lets take this game and add in more "fun" stuff.  Toss in possible skill levels to raise as you advance in the game, as they have talked about.  You think people will KoS less when the character has more built up then they have not?  Obviously not, they will be more protective them more they have worked to get where they are.  So adding in more to do won't lessen the KoS, other games have proven that to be untrue.  Griefers and hardcore PvP players won't care about the other stuff, they will simply still make it a death match as much as they can which will cause more "fear shooters".  It's the nature of open PvP games.

[StoutAle 69]

I'm curious to know if it is a culture difference. I play with Australians and New Zealanders. KOS seems to be the exception not the rule unless you play at just after school time, the kids come out to screech "faggot" at you.

 

I've avoided many a sketchy situation just by talking to people and or bluffing saying that they are being watched by my non existent backup.

 

This could be, I have had so many situations where I was doing every logical thing to avoid getting shot but simply put at some point you have to move out of cover to loot stuff and in doing that I was killed without a word being said.

 

Again I use to be the ballistic helmet, gas mask type but I have gone to more civilian clothes to try to fix the stereotype image and I still get shot/shot at for no reason quite a bit.

[pacific_coast 632]

Again, in your opinion. First, there is no thermal scope in SA, so going to disregard that point.

take a look at the game files sometime.

[pacific_coast 632]

you will be kos'd more than you will get a friendly "interaction"

there is nothing now, or upcoming in the future, to suggest this will ever change

[SGT. Kalme 106]

Make the zombies so strong that you literally die when attacked by one. Then put hordes of them in this game. And people will team up. Or don't buy the game.

 

People, who do, are worthy players. Who think it is too hard - well, that keeps the unwanted crowd away.

[makomachine 263]

I also disagree with you on this.  Every open PvP game I have ever seen (even games with PvP only servers or PvP only areas) always turn into death matches.  PvP draws that type of crowd in every game.  Toss in the fact this is a hardcore game overall (meaning when you die you start over from nothing) and it's going to always draw people that simply like to grief and when you have people like that you will have people that simply kill everyone because they won't take a chance the person they meet isn't going to just kill them.  Now the percentage of either of them two types of people might not even make up the vast majority but as we have seen in this game the number just increases.

 

Now lets take this game and add in more "fun" stuff.  Toss in possible skill levels to raise as you advance in the game, as they have talked about.  You think people will KoS less when the character has more built up then they have not?  Obviously not, they will be more protective them more they have worked to get where they are.  So adding in more to do won't lessen the KoS, other games have proven that to be untrue.  Griefers and hardcore PvP players won't care about the other stuff, they will simply still make it a death match as much as they can which will cause more "fear shooters".  It's the nature of open PvP games.

You are assuming you understand the motivation of 1.3m purchasers? I'm not that confident. I bought the game based on its description as I'm a fan of the zombie apocalypse genre. I bought Arma 3 because I'm a fan of PvP play also. Completely different motivations for my purchase - the problem is that there is little survival or zombie tension in the game at the moment at this phase of development. If I want real PvP fun - there are countless other games 'designed' better for that. I don't play DayZ now in anything but survivor mode - that includes killing others 'if' required. But that doesn't make my experience PvP - people are just another threat at the moment.

I just don't get people that buy DayZ and want the zombies removed. Go play Arma if you want that - I bought this game based on its description and intent - reread it on Steam if you get confused around how it was sold to those +1 million purchasers.

[makomachine 263]

take a look at the game files sometime.

It's already been established that what is in the game files currently - won't necessarily make it into the game. That said, I was talking currently...

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

- NOT BEEN KOS BY OTHER PLAYERS

 

Some people play for the exploration, Communication, Commardary, NOT FUCKING KOS

 

Your ignorance is bliss

 

Take it easy Cujo, your barking up the wrong tree. That quote was from DH himself. I only indicated as such 4x.

 

Ignorance is defined as the lack of knowledge or information. Considering my knowledge/information is coming from the creator himself, does it really appear I am the one that is ignorant?

 

Have a good afternoon.

[StoutAle 69]

You are assuming you understand the motivation of 1.3m purchasers? I'm not that confident. I bought the game based on its description as I'm a fan of the zombie apocalypse genre. I bought Arma 3 because I'm a fan of PvP play also. Completely different motivations for my purchase - the problem is that there is little survival or zombie tension in the game at the moment at this phase of development. If I want real PvP fun - there are countless other games 'designed' better for that. I don't play DayZ now in anything but survivor mode - that includes killing others 'if' required. But that doesn't make my experience PvP - people are just another threat at the moment.

I just don't get people that buy DayZ and want the zombies removed. Go play Arma if you want that - I bought this game based on its description and intent - reread it on Steam if you get confused around how it was sold to those +1 million purchasers.

 

 

Nope, I simply said that every other game that has open world PvP draws a crowd similar to what we currently have on this game.  People who simply want to grief, people who KoS because they are worried about the griefers and then "others".  The two crowds I mention simply end up tainting a lot of the "others" because it becomes shoot or be shot in a lot of situations.  That's based on seeing games from FPS and RPG's to full scale MMO's have or add in open PvP and what happened to them over and over.  I could be proven wrong, I just don't think that's the case.  People are who they are, enough of them will play a PvP game just to make others life on that game suck.  With people like that around others turn into "fear shooters", they don't want to KoS but they also don't want to be KoS'd or robbed so they simply turn to shooting first and asking questions second.  Again it's just the nature of PvP.  Oh that doesn't even take in account the "lazies" who find a fire axe and see someone with gear and they figure it's easier to kill that person and take the gear then earn their own.  Simply to many variations of people who all end up killing others without ever wanting to actually interact with them for a game with open PvP to not turn into death matches.

[makomachine 263]

Nope, I simply said that every other game that has open world PvP draws a crowd similar to what we currently have on this game.  People who simply want to grief, people who KoS because they are worried about the griefers and then "others".  The two crowds I mention simply end up tainting a lot of the "others" because it becomes shoot or be shot in a lot of situations.  That's based on seeing games from FPS and RPG's to full scale MMO's have or add in open PvP and what happened to them over and over.  I could be proven wrong, I just don't think that's the case.  People are who they are, enough of them will play a PvP game just to make others life on that game suck.  With people like that around others turn into "fear shooters", they don't want to KoS but they also don't want to be KoS'd or robbed so they simply turn to shooting first and asking questions second.  Again it's just the nature of PvP.  Oh that doesn't even take in account the "lazies" who find a fire axe and see someone with gear and they figure it's easier to kill that person and take the gear then earn their own.  Simply to many variations of people who all end up killing others without ever wanting to actually interact with them for a game with open PvP to not turn into death matches.

I get your point and just hope for my sake that you are wrong. I don't want Pure PvP and don't want pure PvE - just a bit more balance is all. If that ends up being this games future, a pure PvP, then I'll likely move on to better titles.

[StoutAle 69]

I get your point and just hope for my sake that you are wrong. I don't want Pure PvP and don't want pure PvE - just a bit more balance is all. If that ends up being this games future, a pure PvP, then I'll likely move on to better titles.

 

I agree I'd love a balance like you want and I'm playing in hopes that happens also and like you if it ends up a finished product that is more PvP the survial game then I'll move on at time time.  Lucky for me the carrot on the stick of "end game" is a long time away so I can keep playing and hoping it ends up what I want to play.

[Mr Jizz 313]

"The real core experience is the real tension DayZ provided and that's provided by the other players."

 

If that was to ever change, Chris Torchia wouldn't be leaking new model snaps of the Walther P38. Instead, this would be the latest handgun making its way to stable.

 

 

DayZ isn't DayZ without the fear of being taken out by another player. Its the salt of the Chernarus.

 

I believe this is the most misunderstood facet of the game development.  Currently the melee options are terrible.  With the exception of the fire ax, most are hopeless when it comes to dispatching infected.  The best option is still a firearm, so to state that guns are present for the sake of PVP is baseless. If anything, the development team's attention to firearm detail and the widening variety therein is a vestigial hobby of a team previously working with gun porn like Arma 2. Let's look at the guns that have been added:

 

Phase 1:

• M4A1 - the only modern assault weapon in the game
• Mosin Nagant 9130 - military by inception, hunting implement by modern standards
• FNX45 - based on the FNP, in the US commonly used as a police duty weapon
• Magnum .357 - deadly in the right hands, but little more than a showcase and video game toy, rarely used in any RL situation, occasionally used as decorative or police sidearm

Phase 2:

• IZH-43 Shotgun - hunting implement
• IZH-43 Shotgun (Sawed off) - home defense weapon
• B95 Double Barrell - hunting implement
• SKS - military born, assault by definition, outclassed immediately by AK-47. Largely used to inexpensively equip large armies of developing powers (e.g. the PLA)

Phase 3:

• Sporter 10/22 - hunting/target shooting implement (the presence of large clips is purely a product of/for the gun community - never tactically relevant)
• CZ75 - police sidearm
• 1911 - similar to the Magnum, mostly a showcase piece or weapon of preference. Military in origin, perhaps tied to the US presence in Chenarus
• Amphibia S - bizarre choice. A bastardized mutant of a Nambu pistol, designed for target shooting, adopted for military training(?) and hitmen

​Upcoming Implements:

• Walther P38
• Crossbow
• Bow & Arrow
• AKM

Arma 2 had 73 guns in the official version.  Of this, 48 were military assault rifles and variants, machine guns and sniper [not hunting] rifles.  Though the game has not been left devoid of military hardware, there is only one modern military assault rifle, and two antiques.  The Mosin (like the Mauser K98) is a war relic that is presently used for hunting and collecting.  The rest of that line is squarely focused on being light, civilian or police issue hardware.  I contend that the P38 is in fact proof of my position.  There's no talk of M16's, SCAR's, G36's, FN FAL's, G3's, P90's, AK-varaiants, Bullpups, M249's, etc... because efficient, sustained PVP combat is not the intention or direction of the game.

 

 

Yep if the PvP is the point of DayZ then cooking, eating, drinking and other events are just waste of resources.

 

Precisely.  And its not a waste of resources; last I checked they're adding cholera and fireplaces, not thermal-sight attachments and grenades.

 

Dean is going to make survival so damn hard that the 'moderates' or what I call "incidental-KoS'ers" will become a thing of the past.  More people will find reasons to interact, not simply kill. I blame paranoia in part, and boredom to a certain extent.  Players will always be a source of tension, but by creating an environment so challenging that not cooperating is a source of tension, the game will achieve its apogee.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Mr Jizz

[Siberian (DayZ) 527]

you will be kos'd more than you will get a friendly "interaction"

there is nothing now, or upcoming in the future, to suggest this will ever change

 

 

thus the "flawed concept" statement..

[louist 163]

Thats not what he said. I have typed the direct quote below:

"I prefer this approach than penalizing the free-for-all PvP. I think that if we build these kind of things around the experience that it will round out the PvP experience. I think this is a much better approach to take than having PvE servers."

As far as two years being concerned…it doesn't change the real core experience. Two years is a blip in game development, especially at Hall's pace.

Again quoted here:

"The real core experience is the real tension DayZ provided and that's provided by the other players."

If that was to ever change, Chris Torchia wouldn't be leaking new model snaps of the Walther P38. Instead, this would be the latest handgun making its way to stable.

DayZ isn't DayZ without the fear of being taken out by another player. Its the salt of the Chernarus.

Two years is also plenty of time for Dean to change his mind on a number of things or backpedal from overly ambitious ideas, as he's been known to do.

I'm not saying his views aren't necessarily still relevant, just that two years, when it comes to Dean's comments on what could and will be featured or finished, is a very long time.

[xalienax 621]

just my 2 cents- coming from someone who has played both the Official Mod, community mods, and SA a considerable amount (Many all night benders logging off only after realizing that was sunlight coming thru my window IRL)

 

First, Saying that people who play in groups, clans, or teams are carebears or implying that they are playing the game wrong is just silly. This is a game- actually more a Simulator of a zombie apocalypse in which all law and order beyond that which small groups of people can impose on others has long since vanished. Teaming up and/or clanning up should be by defacto be the single most OP thing in the game. Infact, I think that as more and more environmental factors become an issue for mere survival Large and larger groups will become the norm. The more "ants in the colony" the more chances you have to find that vital medical item, or rare weapon to give your crew an edge of the others competing for the same resources.

 

Secondly, at its core dayZ is pvp- but not in the costal dethatching people think of as PvP. PvP simply means that you are Competing with other PLAYERS. it does not Inherently mean KILLING them. Once engame content and vehicles come into play I can see situations where entire servers are dominated by 2 or 3 groups in completion for good base locations, medical supplies, and things to repair and improve vehicles with. this is not a bad thing tho in my opinion. is very much what one might expect in real life in an apocalyptic scenario. The remnants of society dividing into localized pockets, often coming to blows over what few resources remain in a decaying world. to me this is an exciting and engaging scenario, not a bad thing.

 

I really think that dayZ should follow EvE online's lead in the respect of going "Here's the sandbox and the implements- good luck" and leaving the players to do as they will, for better or worse. You can expect both stories of cooperation- and horrendous losses of hours, weeks, even months of work invested in fortifying towns and cities (akin to building up sov and supers in eve)

[achilles96 7]

Oh look another person who didn't actually play in the old days trying to tell people how it was. In the "old days" you never even got off the coast because everyone spawned with a revolver and there was already 4 people shooting each other every time you spawned.

 

 

 

Are people seriously now asking for PvE servers? Holy shit are you playing the wrong game ... Dean Hall would probably kick anyone straight in the nuts if they suggested this to his face.

 

Mate, I played when there were just 2 servers... It was some of the best DayZ i had ever played.

 

Oh and I'm pretty sure you didn't spawn with a revolver back then, that came in later. (was 2 years ago so I cant be 100% sure)

Edited March 31, 2014 by achilles96