Ghillie suit, rangefinder ?

[cuddly_rabbit 102]

More civilian stuff. This is no military game.

Less sniper stuff.
And especially less sniper stuff to even increase their effectivity.

The close miss of a sniper bullet is something that increases immersion and makes the game cooler.
The instant black screen does not. So... I am all for more whizzing bullets that make your adrenaline shoot up and your character duck for cover... less insta kills.
 

[Katana67 2907]

Up until 2 patches ago the list of weapons were

 

Mosin - Russian

SKS - Russian

M4 - USA

baikal shotgun - Russian

Blaze 95 - as far as I can tell made up.

FNX - Belgium/US

Revolver - US?

 

So that's almost half the weapons right there.

 

The Blaze 95 is the Blazer B95 (IIRC).

 

Either way, I think the distribution of weapons is perfectly fine. I think people have this misconstrued idea of DayZ as STALKER 2.0 (among other misconceptions), even though STALKER featured many, many, NATO weapons.

 

Check this site out if you haven't already, I use it all of the time. http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/DayZ

Edited April 25, 2014 by Katana67

[Jex 1104]

More civilian stuff. This is no military game.

Less sniper stuff.

And especially less sniper stuff to even increase their effectivity.

The close miss of a sniper bullet is something that increases immersion and makes the game cooler.

The instant black screen does not. So... I am all for more whizzing bullets that make your adrenaline shoot up and your character duck for cover... less insta kills.

 

 

Ghillie suit was made for hunting I think and is used by hunters today. It just so happens it works against human animals just as it does against every other species of animal. Even wildlife photographers will use one.

[gibonez 3633]

Thank you. To clarify, is all that information just provided for you? I imagine in Day Z there would be a lot more trial-and-error.

 

yea the dope sheets the piece of paper is provided for you but in ACe you are playing a soldier who would know his weapon and would know the dope for his rifle.

 

In dayz not knowing the correct dope for weapons would be awesome , would require people to mak their own dope sheets with paper outside of the game so when sniping they can quickly glance over to their notepad and dial it in.

[IamDinner 28]

Ghillie suit was made for hunting I think and is used by hunters today. It just so happens it works against human animals just as it does against every other species of animal. Even wildlife photographers will use one.

 

 

Yes but the best one are made not bought by a user. The best are made with local foilage and materials not just ordered on Amazon and shipped.

 

If players have to craft them I would say include them. If you can just walk up and grab one I say leave them out.

[hombrecz 832]

 

 

Either way, I think the distribution of weapons is perfectly fine. I think people have this misconstrued idea of DayZ as STALKER 2.0 (among other misconceptions), even though STALKER featured many, many, NATO weapons.

 

 

People were expecting game as close to reality as possible. Hence why introducing so many western weapons makes zero sense.

 

But yes, Devs have now clearly stated, that they do not strive for realism, so to continue this discussion is waste of time.

Enjoy your prevalent NATO guns!

 

p.s. I like how you no longer mention Metro games, since it does not support your theorycraft about western guns in post-soviet countries :-).

Edited April 26, 2014 by Hombre

[gibonez 3633]

People were expecting game as close to reality as possible. Hence why introducing so many western weapons makes zero sense.

 

But yes, Devs have now clearly stated, that they do not strive for realism, so to continue this discussion is waste of time.

Enjoy your prevalent NATO guns!

 

p.s. I like how you no longer mention Metro games, since it does not support your theorycraft about western guns in post-soviet countries :-).

 

The weapons in Metro is one of the reasons why it is so immersive.

 

The weapon selections and conditions of the weapons actually make you feel as though you are in Russia after a post apocalyptic disaster.

[TheSushi 28]

Up until 2 patches ago the list of weapons were
 
Mosin - Russian
SKS - Russian
M4 - USA
baikal shotgun - Russian
Blaze 95 - as far as I can tell made up.
FNX - Belgium/US
Revolver - US?
 
So that's almost half the weapons right there.

http://www.blaser.de/index.php?id=56&L=1

 

yea the dope sheets the piece of paper is provided for you but in ACe you are playing a soldier who would know his weapon and would know the dope for his rifle.

 

In dayz not knowing the correct dope for weapons would be awesome , would require people to mak their own dope sheets with paper outside of the game so when sniping they can quickly glance over to their notepad and dial it in.

Sounds good.

[hombrecz 832]

The weapons in Metro is one of the reasons why it is so immersive.

 

The weapon selections and conditions of the weapons actually make you feel as though you are in Russia after a post apocalyptic disaster.

 

That was the reason I was upset, that devs chosed not to follow this path with their Chernarus.

Plus to me, Russian weapons are more, how to say it, "post apo" contrary to NATO ones, it just fits so damn well.

 

Anyway I should stop beating a dead horse. Devs will implement whatever they want, my hopes can atleast remain, that once private hives are out, there might be some that shares this opinion. Still I'm affraid that most mods will be like Breaking Point or Overwatch, where you had guns lying everywhere.

[IamDinner 28]

 Lovat Scouts, a Scottish Highland regiment formed by the British Army during the Second Boer War, is the first known military unit to use ghillie suits.^[3] In 1916, Lovat Scouts went on to become the British Army's first sniper unit.^[4]

 

^{Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghillie_suit}

 

I found a second source using the data you list above. Not sure how accurate but the entire site is about these suits. Here is a small copy paste.

 

The ghillie suit originated in Scotland well over a century ago.  Wealthy land owners would hire men to be grounds

keepers, also known as wardens, to protect their flocks/herds from poachers or predators on their estates.  The wardens

soon became known as "ghillies", which comes from the Gaelic word "gille", meaning servant/man.  One technique these

men came up with to hide from any intruders was to wear suits of frayed fabrics and materials.  This would help to

conceal them among the bushes while waiting for the poachers or predators.  The suits they constructed and wore soon

became known as "ghillie suits".

 

Seems legit but who can say.

 

 

Source:

 

http://ghilliesextreme.com/History.html

[Frothyboot18 46]

True, but the zombies will give away the position. Ball's in your court...

The only time a zombie will give away your position is when your inside a city running around or inside the airfield, these are the kill zones. A good sniper would never run into these places wearing his ghillie.

Im all for ghillies, but give them a penalty... Like not being able to carry a back pack, vest, shirt... Only your pants... You wont be able to put a melee weapon on your back and your gun, you always have to run with your gun in your hands... Make it so that ghillies can be carried in your back pack.

[Katana67 2907]

People were expecting game as close to reality as possible. Hence why introducing so many western weapons makes zero sense.

 

But yes, Devs have now clearly stated, that they do not strive for realism, so to continue this discussion is waste of time.

Enjoy your prevalent NATO guns!

 

p.s. I like how you no longer mention Metro games, since it does not support your theorycraft about western guns in post-soviet countries :-).

 

Seeing as Metro has a large lineup of downright fictional weapons, akin to Fallout, I'd say it's pretty damn unrealistic. So not sure what relevance it has. Never mind that Metro is STATED TO TAKE PLACE IN RUSSIA, not a fictional state (even though Metro itself is fictional). So it does support my argument, because the weapons are unrealistic even then in Metro (there's a P90/AK hybrid... I mean, come on).

 

Which proves to me, that you all don't really have a coherent argument, you're just basing your assessment on your "feeling" around an aesthetic. If you were concerned about realism, well, have a look at the variety of weapons to be found in Eastern Europe and weep. If you're concerned about "immersion," look at the now-clarified fictional reasoning for "Western/NATO weaponry" in Chernarus and weep again.

 

You seem to equate "Western weapons" with meaning "guns everywhere," which is a fallacy. They haven't even touched rarity. Never mind that immersion is subjective, and if you were expecting the developers to emulate pure reality, then you were mistaken from the get-go. They've been very clear about finding a balance, and the reality of the Czech Republic (i.e. the country that they're using to deem their weapons lineup, not to mention Eastern Europe as a whole) provides for a variety of weapons, see the quoted statement in my signature. Never mind the game development pragmatism consideration. And never mind the fictional explanation for these weapons in-game.

 

Again, from every angle, these weapons are reasonable in-game. From both a "realistic" and "fictional" point of view.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Katana67

[hombrecz 832]

Seeing as Metro has a large lineup of downright fictional weapons, akin to Fallout, I'd say it's pretty damn unrealistic. So not sure what relevance it has. Never mind that Metro is STATED TO TAKE PLACE IN RUSSIA, not a fictional state (even though Metro itself is fictional). So it does support my argument, because the weapons are unrealistic even then in Metro (there's a P90/AK hybrid... I mean, come on).

 

Which proves to me, that you all don't really have a coherent argument, you're just basing your assessment on your "feeling" around an aesthetic. If you were concerned about realism, well, have a look at the variety of weapons to be found in Eastern Europe and weep. If you're concerned about "immersion," look at the now-clarified fictional reasoning for "Western/NATO weaponry" in Chernarus and weep again.

 

You seem to equate "Western weapons" with meaning "guns everywhere," which is a fallacy. They haven't even touched rarity. Never mind that immersion is subjective, and if you were expecting the developers to emulate pure reality, then you were mistaken from the get-go. They've been very clear about finding a balance, and the reality of the Czech Republic (i.e. the country that they're using to deem their weapons lineup, not to mention Eastern Europe as a whole) provides for a variety of weapons, see the quoted statement in my signature. Never mind the game development pragmatism consideration. And never mind the fictional explanation for these weapons in-game.

 

Again, from every angle, these weapons are reasonable in-game. From both a "realistic" and "fictional" point of view.

 

Metro might not be in realistic setting, but it's certainly authentic one.

That is what DayZ SA is failling now sadly. It's neither realistic, nor authentic based on guns added to the game atm.

 

Not sure about you, but I live in Czech republic and contrary to your belief, people are not running around with SCAR-H's, M4's, Blazer's etc. It's not Texas in the end.

Western weapons are rather expensive here, you can get czech weapons for less money or for example Norinco (chinese stuff).

 

For your enlightment, for example Bushmaster ACR costs around 70 000 CZK. New Samopal vz.58 is for 20 000 CZK, or there are used (but renovated) ones for around 10 000 CZK. Now to futher your knowledge of my country, the average salary is around 17 000 CZK after taxes, sadly around 60% of working people dont even have that.

Should really devs waste time on adding such expensive gun or rather one, that is FAR more likely to be found around here?

 

But if you want to lecture me about the country I live in, please do continue. It will be surely entertaining fiction.

 

P.S. I realise that rarity of weapons is not touched yet. Still what would make sense is to add prevalent weapons FIRST rather then last. That's just logical thing.

Or possibly they dont give a crap about realism or authenticity and just want to cater to guncrazy players, like yourself, in order to make game more appealing?

Then they should come up clean and do not hide behind this "not realistic, but authentistic" nonsense.

[Katana67 2907]

Metro might not be in realistic setting, but it's certainly authentic one.

That is what DayZ SA is failling now sadly. It's neither realistic, nor authentic based on guns added to the game atm.

 

Not sure about you, but I live in Czech republic and contrary to your belief, people are not running around with SCAR-H's, M4's, Blazer's etc. It's not Texas in the end.

Western weapons are rather expensive here, you can get czech weapons for less money or for example Norinco (chinese stuff).

 

For your enlightment, for example Bushmaster ACR costs around 70 000 CZK. New Samopal vz.58 is for 20 000 CZK, or there are used (but renovated) ones for around 10 000 CZK. Now to futher your knowledge of my country, the average salary is around 17 000 CZK after taxes, sadly around 60% of working people dont even have that.

Should really devs waste time on adding such expensive gun or rather one, that is FAR more likely to be found around here?

 

But if you want to lecture me about the country I live in, please do continue. It will be surely entertaining fiction.

 

P.S. I realise that rarity of weapons is not touched yet. Still what would make sense is to add prevalent weapons FIRST rather then last. That's just logical thing.

Or possibly they dont give a crap about realism or authenticity and just want to cater to guncrazy players, like yourself, in order to make game more appealing?

Then they should come up clean and do not hide behind this "not realistic, but authentistic" nonsense.

 

Metro is fiction, just the same as DayZ. Metro is far less authentic than DayZ, given the fact that many of its weapons simply do not exist... at all...

 

Never said the Czech Republic was Texas, or that everyone was running around with SCAR-Hs. But cool, keep confirming my assertion that you fallaciously equate "Western weaponry" with "weapons everywhere." And keep ignoring the STATED fact that Chernarus was host to NATO/US military forces.

 

And I guess the fact that AR-15s/AR-10s are manufactured in Czech doesn't apply to your assertion of realism. Or the fact that the ACR uses M60s/M4s/Mk 48s/M107s. Or the fact that there's a Barrett rifle distributor in Czech. Never mind the rest of Eastern Europe, wouldn't want to get me started on that because it'd entirely debase your argument. Or the fact that Uzis/Sterlings/G3s/FALs/M9s can be found in humdrum Czech gun shops.

 

So you're saying that expensive weapons shouldn't be included in the game? Based upon their cost? Which argument do you intend on sticking with? You're now asserting that weapons cannot be included based on their likelihood in real life of being purchased.

 

No, the sequence of them adding weapons is entirely irrelevant. It's not any more logical for them to add a Makarov first than it is for them to add a 1911 first, especially when the possibily exists for them to both be in the final release. What difference does it make which one comes first if they both may come eventually?

 

Fuck right off with the personal shit though, I'm not mentioning you, merely your arguments. So don't call me "gun crazy," focus on the argument please and knock it off with the vitriol.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Katana67

[hombrecz 832]

Metro is fiction, just the same as DayZ. Metro is far less authentic than DayZ, given the fact that many of its weapons simply do not exist... at all...

 

Never said the Czech Republic was Texas, or that everyone was running around with SCAR-Hs. But cool, keep confirming my assertion that you fallaciously equate "Western weaponry" with "weapons everywhere." And keep ignoring the STATED fact that Chernarus was host to NATO/US military forces.

 

And I guess the fact that AR-15s/AR-10s are manufactured in Czech doesn't apply to your assertion of realism. Or the fact that the ACR uses M60s/M4s/Mk 48s/M107s. Or the fact that there's a Barrett rifle distributor in Czech. Never mind the rest of Eastern Europe, wouldn't want to get me started on that because it'd entirely debase your argument. Or the fact that Uzis/Sterlings/G3s/FALs/M9s can be found in humdrum Czech gun shops.

 

So you're saying that expensive weapons shouldn't be included in the game? Based upon their cost? Which argument do you intend on sticking with? You're now asserting that weapons cannot be included based on their likelihood in real life of being purchased.

 

No, the sequence of them adding weapons is entirely irrelevant. It's not any more logical for them to add a Makarov first than it is for them to add a 1911 first, especially when the possibily exists for them to both be in the final release. What difference does it make which one comes first if they both may come eventually?

 

Fuck right off with the personal shit though, I'm not mentioning you, merely your arguments. So don't call me "gun crazy," focus on the argument please and knock it off with the vitriol.

 

Love how you mention that ACR uses M60s/M4s//M107s (not Mk 48), which are highly non-standard in Czech Army and in very limited numbers! 

Currently, ACR plans to buy FN Minimi to replace very old 7,62mm univerzální kulomet vzor 59, which makes majority of LMG's in our army.

Assault rifles consisted mostly of Vz.58, recently being replaced by new Bren 805 in NATO caliber. SVD Dragunov for DMR purposes.

Again you know nothing about this country. Brief google job will not make you an expert.

 

Oh so Barret has dealership in my country. You probably ment www.luvo.cz, but that does not mean much. The .50 CAL is only for army basically, so good luck finding these here.

Next time you might tell me, that Rolls royce has dealership here, hinting every other Joe here drives one?

 

Tell me how exactly you propose judging which weapon should get in? So far your arguments were that if the gun can be bought, no matter the costs or any other troubles of getting it, it should be in game, right? I find that unwise, to say the least and yes, hinting at your love of weapons, which I'm not sure why it offends you.

 

Maybe it is about time you, and most likely devs as well, dropped the act and gave up on the whole realism/authenticity argument. It is not working too well.

Plus when they admitted it is partly because of planning transition to other setting on future maps.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Hombre

[Katana67 2907]

 

Love how you mention that ACR uses M60s/M4s//M107s (not Mk 48), which are highly non-standard in Czech Army and in very limited numbers! 

Currently, ACR plans to buy FN Minimi to replace very old 7,62mm univerzální kulomet vzor 59, which makes majority of LMG's in our army.

Assault rifles consisted mostly of Vz.58, recently being replaced by new Bren 805 in NATO caliber. SVD Dragunov for DMR purposes.

Again you know nothing about this country. Brief google job will not make you an expert.

 

Oh so Barret has dealership in my country. You probably ment www.luvo.cz, but that does not mean much. The .50 CAL is only for army basically, so good luck finding these here.

Next time you might tell me, that Rolls royce has dealership here, hinting every other Joe here drives one?

 

Tell me how exactly you propose judging which weapon should get in? So far your arguments were that if the gun can be bought, no matter the costs or any other troubles of getting it, it should be in game, right? I find that unwise, to say the least and yes, hinting at your love of weapons, which I'm not sure why it offends you.

 

Maybe it is about time you, and most likely devs as well, dropped the act and gave up on the whole realism/authenticity argument. It is not working too well.

Plus when they admitted it is partly because of planning transition to other setting on future maps.

 

And when exactly did I say rare weapons shouldn't be rare? Please, illuminate where I said this. Please outline, for me, because I'm such a dern fool... where I suggested that a certain weapon should be common.

 

And they admitted it's because of developmental pragmatism, and they admitted it's provided for in the fiction of Chernarus... thereby making it authentic in the fiction.

 

You equate realism with authenticity, they are distinct concepts as employed by the developers. Realism is an emulation of reality. Authenticity, as used by game developers, is an emphasized balance between realism and fiction.

 

Yep, if a weapon is present in a country, then it is plausibly to be found there. Last I checked, we weren't purchasing weapons in DayZ. What you're keying in on is rarity, something which hasn't been touched.

 

You're confusing rarity with the mere presence of a weapon.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Katana67

[hombrecz 832]

And when exactly did I say rare weapons shouldn't be rare? Please, illuminate where I said this.

 

And they admitted it's because of developmental pragmatism, and they admitted it's provided for in the fiction of Chernarus... thereby making it authentic in the fiction.

 

You equate realism with authenticity, they are distinct concepts as employed by the developers. Realism is an emulation of reality. Authenticity, as used by game developers, is an emphasized balance between realism and fiction.

 

Yep, if a weapon is present in a country, then it is plausibly to be found there. Last I checked, we weren't purchasing weapons in DayZ. What you're keying in on is rarity, something which hasn't been touched.

 

You're confusing rarity with the mere presence of a weapon.

 

I just expected more from Devs, that is all.

Butchering eastern (no matter how fictional) setting is just big waste of potential.

 

I understand you, and many others, welcome this, you have right for your opinion. 

Oh well, I will hope that atleast from technical point of view (desyncs, low FPS in cities etc) this game will get better in time.

 

Now next added weapon might as well be golden plated AK, because well, you can buy it.

[gibonez 3633]

That was the reason I was upset, that devs chosed not to follow this path with their Chernarus.

Plus to me, Russian weapons are more, how to say it, "post apo" contrary to NATO ones, it just fits so damn well.

 

Anyway I should stop beating a dead horse. Devs will implement whatever they want, my hopes can atleast remain, that once private hives are out, there might be some that shares this opinion. Still I'm affraid that most mods will be like Breaking Point or Overwatch, where you had guns lying everywhere.

 

It is not too terrible yet.

 

The weapons added in the game thus far are civilian heavy focused and nothing is jarring yet.

 

We have a heavy focus on hunting and civilian firearms weapons I would expect in the Czech Republic where the weapon inspiration is taking place.

 

More russian and russian military weapons are sure to come they are just not finished yet.

 

The AKM, AK74 and the SVD are on their way.

[EvilTigerAce 131]

Idea to make improvised ghillie suits hard to craft:

 

5 wooden sticks needed. (Combine wooden stick to get doubled stick, then again, again, etc.)

 

Then attach the coupled sticks to a coat or jacket. (hoodie or shirt is not possible)

-attach them with rope or duct tape or something else... not sure about this

 

Then add 2 burlap sacks, this will make a Improvised Camo Jacket or Improvised Camo Coat (so your blue coat will transform into some kind of beige one, with sticks and burlap parts)

 

Then add 5 stacks leaves or 5 stacks of grass (you can get these from bushes/fields)

- Leaves will make an autumn ghillie suit (brown/orange), grass will make a summer suit (green)

 

You now made an Improvised Ghillie Suit! :D

 

edit

You can do the same with pants (no jeans!), but then with 3 stacks of leaves/grass, 3 sticks and 2 burlap sacks.

Edited April 26, 2014 by EvilTigerAce

[hefeweizen 254]

I think a ghilie suit should give your character lesser chance to be detected by zombies. Since it makes you pretty hard to make out from the bushes and the grass. I also would like to see precision military weapons added into the game that you can actually rely on. I'm so sick of seeing guys run across the NWAF like it's nothing, since there is no gun accurate enough atm to actually kill or break their legs on first shot.

Two things:

1. We're going to assume zombies tell the difference between the living and other zombies via scent, so no go on the ghilie making you invis to zed.

 

2. If you're so sick of seeing people run across the NWAF, why wouldn't you pretend you're a man for a little and engage those guys at close range instead of relying on chickensh*t sniper tactics?

[hannibaldaplaya 1095]

2. If you're so sick of seeing people run across the NWAF, why wouldn't you pretend you're a man for a little and engage those guys at close range instead of relying on chickensh*t sniper tactics?

 

Because sniping is the safest way of engaging an opponent? :D

 

This game is about survival, and you have a lower chance of survival in close range combat then you do in long range combat.

 

If you want to minimize the chance of your death, sniping is literally the best PVP option, as you can stay away from your enemy, and if your shots miss, you can easily flee.

 

Once it is harder to do though, like when they hopefully implement ACE style sniping, it will be a lot less reliable and will require skill! This will dramatically decrease the amount of snipers but still make it effective for people who have the brains for it.

 

It isn't a chickenshit tactic, sniping is a good way to engage people and a safe way to engage people in DayZ.

 

The only problem I have with his post is that he wants super magical rifles that make his aim better so he can shoot running targets with 1 shot from hundreds of meters away. 

[Katana67 2907]

chickensh*t sniper tactics

 

I giggled.

[gibonez 3633]

2. If you're so sick of seeing people run across the NWAF, why wouldn't you pretend you're a man for a little and engage those guys at close range instead of relying on chickensh*t sniper tactics?

 

Nothing wrong with sniping as long as it is hard.

 

Thats the problem in dayz.

 

sniping while in reality is one of the hardest if not the hardest ways to engage a target is the easiest way in dayz.

 

You know there is an inherent problem with the gameplay when sniping is far easier than shooting someone up close.

[hefeweizen 254]

Because sniping is the safest way of engaging an opponent? :D

 

This game is about survival, and you have a lower chance of survival in close range combat then you do in long range combat.

 

If you want to minimize the chance of your death, sniping is literally the best PVP option, as you can stay away from your enemy, and if your shots miss, you can easily flee.

 

Once it is harder to do though, like when they hopefully implement ACE style sniping, it will be a lot less reliable and will require skill! This will dramatically decrease the amount of snipers but still make it effective for people who have the brains for it.

 

It isn't a chickenshit tactic, sniping is a good way to engage people and a safe way to engage people in DayZ.

 

The only problem I have with his post is that he wants super magical rifles that make his aim better so he can shoot running targets with 1 shot from hundreds of meters away. 

To all that I say "It makes the game soooooo boring." and if you're playing DayZ to "Win" at "PvP", then you're doing it wrong.

Also, its still a chickensh*t tactic. Its what people who lack the reflexes and situational awareness to handle close quarters combat do to "get kills". Furthermore if there was one style of game play that could be associated with pointless KoSing, it'd be snipers. I mean, at least the CoDers who spray bambis with their M4s loot their kills.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Hefeweizen

[hefeweizen 254]

Nothing wrong with sniping as long as it is hard.

 

Thats the problem in dayz.

 

sniping while in reality is one of the hardest if not the hardest ways to engage a target is the easiest way in dayz.

 

You know there is an inherent problem with the gameplay when sniping is far easier than shooting someone up close.

Heh. That has been a problem with every game since sniper rifles were part of gaming.

...And don't link Ace mod, I've seen it already, and I agree with you.  :thumbsup:

Edited April 26, 2014 by Hefeweizen