Battlefield 3 vs DayZ dispersion

[Publik 404]

Screw you, I spat my juice all over my screen :D

[finnpalm 312]

I had to take a drive downtown to expedite a paper with the business people (40 work days to file an LLC? wtf? Another $35 for the state to make it 8...) with my buddy John. John is a fellow programmer and a student at my alma mater. He's ex-marine and I asked him what his grouping was at 300m. I'm told that it's the size of a quarter at 300m prone, 7-9/10 hits on a human sized target if standing or crouched. Granted, this is with an M16, but it's essentially the same gun.

 

With iron sights or optics?

[Publik 404]

With iron sights or optics?

Irons

[finnpalm 312]

Irons

 

I've shot assault rifles at 300 m. I don't think your friend is lying, but maybe there's some miscommunication there. If you had said optics or 100 m I would have believed you. Iron sights at 300, no. Just no.

 

EDIT: Actually, I take that back. I'm mixing up the sizes of the different coins. He might be able to put them that close, but if he does that consistently he's probably one of the top shots there.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Strawman

[gibonez 3633]

I've shot assault rifles at 300 m. I don't think your friend is lying, but maybe there's some miscommunication there. If you had said optics or 100 m I would have believed you. Iron sights at 300, no. Just no.

EDIT: Actually, I take that back. I'm mixing up the sizes of the different coins. He might be able to put them that close, but if he does that consistently he's probably one of the top shots there.

Iron sights are quite doable there is a reason why the military only recently embrace optics for your everyday infantry man.

Anyway look up 1000m service rifle matches.

These are matches where people aim at 1000m with only iron sights. Regular people from all walks of life hitting paper each time.

Yes 1000m is very doable with irons where optics shine is in target identification.

Stand alone would benefit greatly if it had accurate true to life weapons and an extreme scarcity of red dot sights, acogs, and high end precision optics.

A world full of iron sights would be fantastic.

[Weedz 1105]

The max render distance in this shit is only 1000M ?!? That is ridiculously low!

 

I kill people in Arma 3 at 1500+M with a sniper rifle easily.

I've gotten kills on other snipers who aren't moving over 2000M easily

 

 

I've seen videos of people in Arma 2 with ACE getting kills at 2500M

I've seen videos of people in regular Arma 2 getting kills at over 4000M

Edited March 27, 2014 by Weedz

[SGT. Kalme 106]

I've shot assault rifles at 300 m. I don't think your friend is lying, but maybe there's some miscommunication there. If you had said optics or 100 m I would have believed you. Iron sights at 300, no. Just no.

 

EDIT: Actually, I take that back. I'm mixing up the sizes of the different coins. He might be able to put them that close, but if he does that consistently he's probably one of the top shots there.

 

Let's not jump on conclusions - he might be Hawkeye. I don't know how big the quarter is but not over size of 5cm diameter so yeah, it is what it is.

 

Anyway, it IS possible to shoot that accurately but it would be really rare among the whole army.

 

On a side note, when I have drank 6 cans of beer, I become better shooter as well. At least according to my words. :)

[Publik 404]

Let's not jump on conclusions - he might be Hawkeye. I don't know how big the quarter is but not over size of 5cm diameter so yeah, it is what it is.

 

Anyway, it IS possible to shoot that accurately but it would be really rare among the whole army.

 

On a side note, when I have drank 6 cans of beer, I become better shooter as well. At least according to my words. :)

Hey, I report what I hear. He said that this was prone, and it was the grouping (not hitting an actual quarter). Standing or kneeling it was a human sized target, where his best was 9/10 shots.

 

Edit: Does "quarter" mean something different to military types? Coin, quarter inch, quarter foot?

 

Ah, fuckit, ignore that. Didn't ask enough to be sure what he meant.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Publik

[SGT. Kalme 106]

Hey, I report what I hear. He said that this was prone, and it was the grouping (not hitting an actual quarter). Standing or kneeling it was a human sized target, where his best was 9/10 shots.

 

Edit: Does "quarter" mean something different to military types? Coin, quarter inch, quarter foot?

 

I understand you meant coin by quarter but not sure. As I said, this is unlikely but not impossible. I couldn't shoot that accurately because my vision is f**ked up but there sure are persons who can.

 

At 300m though and so light-weight bullet as 5.56 is, the grouping would be around 1-1.5cm because of just the weapon characteristics. How big is the quarter diameter anyway?

[Publik 404]

I understand you meant coin by quarter but not sure. As I said, this is unlikely but not impossible. I couldn't shoot that accurately because my vision is f**ked up but there sure are persons who can.

 

At 300m though and so light-weight bullet as 5.56 is, the grouping would be around 1-1.5cm because of just the weapon characteristics. How big is the quarter diameter anyway?

Oh, a quarter's 2.5cm? Just under an inch.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Publik

[Publik 404]

Btw, there are 8 pages of discussion already, yet it seems no one said that, so:

 

ALPHA!

You ruined it. 8 pages of discussion.

[Sula 1205]

Alright, I've hidden it.  He's hardly ruined the thread, he's just not as intellectual as some of you, right?

 

Now everyone please carry on with your discussion. :thumbsup:

[gibonez 3633]

Anyone know how ace mods weapon dispersion compares to standalone.

[Publik 404]

Anyone know how ace mods weapon dispersion compares to standalone.

Downloading ACE's M4 pack, will let you know in a second.

 

Edit: This may not be actual ACE values, but it's an addon. I don't have the patience to download all of ACE right now ;P

Edited March 27, 2014 by Publik

[Publik 404]

In ACE's M4 pack (link in post above), the dispersion for the M4 is 0.00225, with a dispersion of  0.00275 for the SBR, 0.0035 for the M249, 0.003 for the Mk48, and 0.002 for the M16. It should also be noted that in this modpack at least, the dispersion for all of the M4s is the same, regardless of attachments.

 

Edit: PsychicGamers reports the M4A1 in DayZ has a base dispersion of 0.1.

 

Edit 2: Numbers from DayZDB match Psychic Gamers. The dispersion changes from the Magpul parts are -0.0489964 for the buttstock and -0.0489964 for the foregrip, bringing the end dispersion to 0.0020072, or slightly more accurate than the ACE version and essentially the accuracy of an M16. Adding a deployed bipod apparently takes off an additional 0.05 dispersion, so I dunno how that's actually applied.

Edited March 27, 2014 by Publik

[blaf 63]

You ruined it. 8 pages of discussion.

I couldn't resist :)

 

Alright, I've hidden it.  He's hardly ruined the thread, he's just not as intellectual as some of you, right?

 

Now everyone please carry on with your discussion. :thumbsup:

I would welcome if a member of official forum team wouldn't doubt intellect of forum members.

/OT

[-Gews- 7443]

Anyone know how ace mods weapon dispersion compares to standalone.

 

ACE pistols: 0.004 = 3.6 inches at 25 yards

DayZ pistols: 0.03 = 2 feet 3 inches at 25 yards (7.5x worse)

 

 

ACE M4A1: 0.00225 = 8.1 inches at 100 yards

DayZ M4A1: 0.0118064 = 3 feet 6.5 inches at 100 yards (5.25x worse)

slightly more accurate than the ACE version

Correct, it is slightly more accurate.

Adding a deployed bipod apparently takes off an additional 0.05 dispersion, so I dunno how that's actually applied.

AFAIK it gives it 0 dispersion, infinitely perfect accuracy. Same with the Mosin.

Some older ACE version even had much larger dispersion, ie: "0.0025*1.5" for the M4A1, which equals 0.00375.

I don't agree with some of their choices, for example they gave the M4A1 about 2-3 times more dispersion than typical groups at 100 yards... okay, whatever... but then they gave the M14 a more normal number (2.5 inches at 100 yards).

They should have either given both normal dispersions, or given both 2-3 times larger. No inconsistencies. Another example, they seem to have given the AK the exact same dispersion as the M4. The Lee-Enfield is also too accurate.

[St. Jimmy 1631]

If 70cm dispersion at 23m with a pistol and bit over 1m at 100m with M4 does sound right for someone I can only wonder. That's only the dispersion then you have to take the sway in consideration.

[gibonez 3633]

In ACE's M4 pack (link in post above), the dispersion for the M4 is 0.00225, with a dispersion of  0.00275 for the SBR, 0.0035 for the M249, 0.003 for the Mk48, and 0.002 for the M16. It should also be noted that in this modpack at least, the dispersion for all of the M4s is the same, regardless of attachments.

 

Edit: PsychicGamers reports the M4A1 in DayZ has a base dispersion of 0.1.

 

Edit 2: Numbers from DayZDB match Psychic Gamers. The dispersion changes from the Magpul parts are -0.0489964 for the buttstock and -0.0489964 for the foregrip, bringing the end dispersion to 0.0020072, or slightly more accurate than the ACE version and essentially the accuracy of an M16. Adding a deployed bipod apparently takes off an additional 0.05 dispersion, so I dunno how that's actually applied.

 

 

noted that in this modpack at least, the dispersion for all of the M4s is the same, regardless of attachments.

 

As it should be. Thanks.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

General

 

Advanced Combat Environment (ACE) is a full conversion modification for Armed Assault. The overarching philosophy of ACE is to provide its users with a combat simulation that is both realistic and enjoyable. Our primary mission is to create a wide variety of real world weapons, vehicles, equipment, and tactics so that those playing the ACE modification will be able to better simulate combined arms combat on a modern battlefield. ACE is designed from the bottom up with the goal of encouraging its users to employ real world tactics and strategy (fighting as a team) in order to accomplish realistic military objectives. We strive to create hyper-realism without losing sight that the mod must be playable by the “advanced” user. Our focus is not only on creating coding and scripting which highlights realism but on creating realistic missions on which one may experience the full spectrum of virtual combat.

 

Advanced Combat Environment (ACE) allows casual to hard-core gamers the opportunity to experience realistic military weapons, equipment, and tactics while still maintaining an environment that is enjoyable to play.

 

Advanced Combat Environment (ACE) provides the most realistic, comprehensive, and tactical first-person military simulation available for the civilian PC market.

 

Advanced Combat Environment (ACE) is a mod in progress for Armed Assault that is being done by the core crew that was responsible for the excellent Wargames League (WGL) mod for Operation Flashpoint (OFP).There are many exciting teamwork- and gameplay-enhancing features planned for ACE; it should be the mod-of-choice for any groups interested in increasing their realism, teamwork, and gameplay at the same time.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Caboose187

[Publik 404]

General

 

Advanced Combat Environment (ACE) is a full conversion modification for Armed Assault. The overarching philosophy of ACE is to provide its users with a combat simulation that is both realistic and enjoyable. Our primary mission is to create a wide variety of real world weapons, vehicles, equipment, and tactics so that those playing the ACE modification will be able to better simulate combined arms combat on a modern battlefield. ACE is designed from the bottom up with the goal of encouraging its users to employ real world tactics and strategy (fighting as a team) in order to accomplish realistic military objectives. We strive to create hyper-realism without losing sight that the mod must be playable by the “advanced” user. Our focus is not only on creating coding and scripting which highlights realism but on creating realistic missions on which one may experience the full spectrum of virtual combat.

 

Advanced Combat Environment (ACE) allows casual to hard-core gamers the opportunity to experience realistic military weapons, equipment, and tactics while still maintaining an environment that is enjoyable to play.

 

Advanced Combat Environment (ACE) provides the most realistic, comprehensive, and tactical first-person military simulation available for the civilian PC market.

 

Advanced Combat Environment (ACE) is a mod in progress for Armed Assault that is being done by the core crew that was responsible for the excellent Wargames League (WGL) mod for Operation Flashpoint (OFP).There are many exciting teamwork- and gameplay-enhancing features planned for ACE; it should be the mod-of-choice for any groups interested in increasing their realism, teamwork, and gameplay at the same time.

Yes?

[gibonez 3633]

General

 

Advanced Combat Environment (ACE) is a full conversion modification for Armed Assault. The overarching philosophy of ACE is to provide its users with a combat simulation that is both realistic and enjoyable. Our primary mission is to create a wide variety of real world weapons, vehicles, equipment, and tactics so that those playing the ACE modification will be able to better simulate combined arms combat on a modern battlefield. ACE is designed from the bottom up with the goal of encouraging its users to employ real world tactics and strategy (fighting as a team) in order to accomplish realistic military objectives. We strive to create hyper-realism without losing sight that the mod must be playable by the “advanced” user. Our focus is not only on creating coding and scripting which highlights realism but on creating realistic missions on which one may experience the full spectrum of virtual combat.

 

Advanced Combat Environment (ACE) allows casual to hard-core gamers the opportunity to experience realistic military weapons, equipment, and tactics while still maintaining an environment that is enjoyable to play.

 

Advanced Combat Environment (ACE) provides the most realistic, comprehensive, and tactical first-person military simulation available for the civilian PC market.

 

Advanced Combat Environment (ACE) is a mod in progress for Armed Assault that is being done by the core crew that was responsible for the excellent Wargames League (WGL) mod for Operation Flashpoint (OFP).There are many exciting teamwork- and gameplay-enhancing features planned for ACE; it should be the mod-of-choice for any groups interested in increasing their realism, teamwork, and gameplay at the same time.

 

Yes it is a hard core experience but the changes it makes to the gunplay, the way weapons react and the addition of a separate menu for actions that does not clutter the scroll wheel improve the game tenfold.

 

These gameplay improvements would be beneficial to any game including stand alone.

 

The firearms would respond like firearms, everything would feel real and authentic, sniping would require skill, weapons such as LMGS would not just be assault rifles with 200 round belts.

 

ACE mod changes how every class of weapon feels fundamentally it improves the gameplay soooo much.

[finnpalm 312]

This thread is really going places. I like the suggestions for a more true to life accuracy of a weapon, and instead simulating difficulty aiming down the sights as several different posters have suggested.

 

I also liked the suggestion someone made about a mechanic from another game where you could "bind" your weapon to surfaces for increased support and ability to aim correctly.

 

I've been thinking however, what if the devs actually want to smooth out the differences between skilled players and less skilled players? Maybe they don't want the gun play to require skill? It's not completely unthinkable considering comments on how the game stirs up emotions in people. Maybe they try to follow up on that and move the game in that direction?

 

Or maybe they plan to put in an experience system, where the game rewards you in some way, making your character better at certain tasks the longer you stay alive and the more you perform those same tasks?

 

Or both?

 

Just thoughts. I don't have any answers.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Strawman

[-Gews- 7443]

I've been thinking however, what if the devs actually want to smooth out the differences between skilled players and less skilled players?

Nope, then they wouldn't have added the Magpul and compensators etc... who knows. Chris Torchia said he wanted the guns "to perform as close to their real-world counterparts as possible".

[finnpalm 312]

Nope, then they wouldn't have added the Magpul and compensators etc... who knows. Chris Torchia said he wanted the guns "to perform as close to their real-world counterparts as possible".

 

Well, hopefully they'll see this thread and consider changing to a system where the weapons and scopes are accurate (in pristine condition) and instead add multiple factors that ruin your ability to aim properly. I've grown to like that idea more and more.