Hardcore by default?

[SGT. Kalme 106]

Bring arguments bro.

 

There is no need for other arguments. You have both options to choose from already. That is self-explanatory.

Edited March 25, 2014 by SGT. Kalme

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

I really don't mind,even though i'm still a noob at 1pp despit the fact i lag,

bump into walls,and feel restrained control-wise,i can learn to relate with it.

(but you have to admit,controls are preety crap i would be falling out of windows 24/7)

[mgc 92]

There is no need for other arguments. You have both options to choose from already. That is self-explanatory.

Bring arguments as to why 3pp should stay in a simulator that emphasizes on realism.

You are saying that it should stay in game because it is in game.

That is not an argument.

[SGT. Kalme 106]

Bring arguments as to why 3pp should stay in a simulator that emphasizes on realism.

You are saying that it should stay in game because it is in game.

That is not an argument.

 

No, it should stay in game because it compensates the unrealistically narrow FOV. And that is posted on 1st page.

[mgc 92]

No, it should stay in game because it compensates the unrealistically narrow FOV. And that is posted on 1st page.

It overcompensates and with fov on max, it's actually not so bad. Of course if you "need" the triple zoom, you have to play on narrow.

[SGT. Kalme 106]

It overcompensates and with fov on max, it's actually not so bad. Of course if you "need" the triple zoom, you have to play on narrow.

 

Indeed but as for me, who I play one one screen, having FOV max makes my vision distorted and I can't play like that. Having FOV around 95 and using the 3rd-person however compensates that for me. If everyone had 3 screen eyefinity/surround then increasing FOV to life-like wouldn't be a problem and 3rd-person could as well be removed. But that won't happen.

 

I agree that it is advantage to camp and see surroundings without being exposed and wish there would be something to do about it but removing 3rd person isn't really a solution as of now.

[mgc 92]

Indeed but as for me, who I play one one screen, having FOV max makes my vision distorted and I can't play like that. Having FOV around 95 and using the 3rd-person however compensates that for me. If everyone had 3 screen eyefinity/surround then increasing FOV to life-like wouldn't be a problem and 3rd-person could as well be removed. But that won't happen.

 

I agree that it is advantage to camp and see surroundings without being exposed and wish there would be something to do about it but removing 3rd person isn't really a solution as of now.

Your argument is now that the unrealistic immersion breaking factor 3pp brings to the game is worth it because some players have 3 screens and that isn't fair? You feel the need to compensate this by using 3pp?

Edited March 25, 2014 by mgc

[SGT. Kalme 106]

Your argument is now that the unrealistic immersion breaking factor 3pp brings to the game is worth it because some players have 3 screens and that isn't fair? You feel the need to compensate this by using 3pp?

 

Where did you read that exactly that having 3 screens is unfair?

 

3rd person compensates the unrealistically narrow FOV. You can tune up the FOV to be life-like but that will distort the visuals and be even worse than having it just at 75. Having 3 screens would put the possible FOV levels into good use. While I don't have 3 screens, I rather play in 3rd person.

[thedogfoodyayho 295]

I have to say this wouldn't be a huge problem for me anymore. A months ago i literally could not play 1Pp becuase i got sick (In mod.)

But i tried it in SA. With the small white dot i can actaully tell wherr i'm going, and the camera seems to be a bit further back into my towards my head. 

Then yesterday, i tried 3pp. I found it hard to control my character. So i'm pretty much exclusively playing 3pp now.

 

Still, though, i Don't think it should be removed. Minecraft had a simple system that didn't allow you to look around or over stuff. That would work well in dayz.

Plus, 1pp is still broken - like I'm looking through a little box.

[mgc 92]

Where did you read that exactly that having 3 screens is unfair?

 

3rd person compensates the unrealistically narrow FOV. You can tune up the FOV to be life-like but that will distort the visuals and be even worse than having it just at 75. Having 3 screens would put the possible FOV levels into good use. While I don't have 3 screens, I rather play in 3rd person.

""Where did you read that exactly that having 3 screens is unfair?""

""If everyone had 3 screen""

 

It was implied.

 

""You can tune up the FOV to be life-like but that will distort the visuals""

 

It doesn't bother me. Its prolly a matter of getting used to.

[BeefBacon 1185]

I'd like to see a focus on first-person balance so that the game is angled towards it more. My initial post was really supposed to pose the question "why is there a third-person perspective in a game like this?"

 

I don't want to see 3pp removed entirely, but if 1pp was the dominant way of playing I'd be happy. For now it seems that most people play 3pp, so it feels like the game is more likely to be balanced for that.

 

Again I understand that 3pp is, reportedly, supposed to simulate peripheral vision, but I wonder why it isn't in every other game?

 

Somebody put this video up on another thread and I think it accurately portrays the points I'm trying to make.

 

 

But guys, don't get worked up over this thread. I want this to be a discussion, not something that's going to get locked.

Edited March 25, 2014 by BeefBacon

[Sonic-NKT 38]

good video... thats exactly why i favorite HC Mode.

 

well i like hardcore more than regular, but the majority of my friends like regular more...

I dont want to ban regular alltogether, anyone should play like he wants and even tho there are far less hc server arround i was always able to find one with good ping and decent number of players.

 

and yes they should add a those different stand modes of arma 3 and mirros on knifes to the game ;)

[AP_Norris 1018]

Actually it does. It is simple logic. In perspective, your FOV is wider, the longer the distances. Now moving your point of sight behind the actual character makes it wider in character location. It does not increase degrees of FOV but it does give you wider sight for short distances.

So at short distances it would be more realistic to see your back aswell?

Humans have blindspots.

We also don't see everything in full focus.

Use alt key, it is your best friend, if someone is wearing a massive mountain backpack, they shouldn't be able to see directly behind them.

If someone is in the grass, they shouldn't be able too see everything as you would standing up.

First person literally only removes the ability to see yourself while running, but adds so much more to the realism of combat.

Peeking over a ledge to see the battlefield should have bullets flying past your head, that's what happens IRL.

You cannot possibly argue that third person adds realism to the game.

Edited March 25, 2014 by AP_Norris

[JiJi (DayZ) 223]

I would like to have a checkbox "Hardcore servers" option in filter (server browser).

And also one other "Regular servers" beside.

Coming back to OP, should the first be ticked by default when launching game for the first time? ;)

[kOepi (DayZ) 35]

the 3rd person is compensating situational awareness coming from the Field of View, aswell as the higher resolution a human eye has.
the reason why it is overdose is, because it gives you a different angle and therefore you can see things, that cannot be seen by anybody, no matter how close they focus.

I personally think, that it is in the game only because of the gamers who prefer it, who feel "sneaky" to use 3rd to check around corners
without exposing themselves ( what in most cases is not a benefit )
plus you can enjoy the graphics and individual gear of your own player from all sides ( hell, I am so beautiful ).

[AP_Norris 1018]

the 3rd person is compensating situational awareness coming from the Field of View, aswell as the higher resolution a human eye has.

the reason why it is overdose is, because it gives you a different angle and therefore you can see things, that cannot be seen by anybody, no matter how close they focus.

I personally think, that it is in the game only because of the gamers who prefer it, who feel "sneaky" to use 3rd to check around corners

without exposing themselves ( what in most cases is not a benefit )

plus you can enjoy the graphics and individual gear of your own player from all sides ( hell, I am so beautiful ).

 

Gear screen doe

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

The reason third person is in the game is because you currently have a 90* field of view, but in real life you have a 180* field of view, this is balanced by adding third person, as third person gives a 180* field of view.

Also, it is a game, yes it's a survival simulator but people enjoy third person. And the point of this game is to enjoy it. It really doesn't cause that much harm. If you feel certain that you must play in first person, just stay on the hardcore servers, because I guarantee if rocket was to remove third person, then once private hives come out, there would be moded servers with third person installed

Why do people still spew this lie over and over? It's not gonna make it true.

https://sslimgs.xkcd.com/comics/visual_field_large.png

 

Turn your damn view if you need to see behind you.

 

And it's not "once private hives come out" it's IF

Edited March 26, 2014 by Lady Kyrah

[willhelm 85]

Third person doesn't improve FOV at all, it only moves the camera about a metre behind you.

I find that just giving people first person and only first person would make peoples ideals a little bit different, the hardcore community is very thinned out.

I'm guessing this is so because people don't like change a whole lot.

I made the switch once I picked up the SA though, only happy I did so TBH.

I feel as soon as you add third person, people are going to use it to gain the advantage in combat.

Oh yeah, and the whole see character argument. I think just add the running, wielding gun, aiming, walking, crouch, prone and all that movement to the inventory screen following the in world movements.

And I prefer to see my friends against the landscape from a first person perspective.

Mving the the camera a metre behind you increases the FOV

[willhelm 85]

Why do people still spew this lie over and over? It's not gonna make it true.

https://sslimgs.xkcd.com/comics/visual_field_large.png

 

Turn your damn view if you need to see behind you.

 

And it's not "once private hives come out" it's IF

Fov stands for field of view, it pushes the camera backwards from the character, therefore you can see 180* degrees around the character

[SGT. Kalme 106]

Why do people still spew this lie over and over? It's not gonna make it true.

https://sslimgs.xkcd.com/comics/visual_field_large.png

 

Turn your damn view if you need to see behind you.

 

And it's not "once private hives come out" it's IF

 

I don't know what your link proves because it speaks of completely different thing but it is common sense that moving POV backwards improves FOV.

 

 

So at short distances it would be more realistic to see your back aswell?

Humans have blindspots.

We also don't see everything in full focus.

Use alt key, it is your best friend, if someone is wearing a massive mountain backpack, they shouldn't be able to see directly behind them.

If someone is in the grass, they shouldn't be able too see everything as you would standing up.

First person literally only removes the ability to see yourself while running, but adds so much more to the realism of combat.

Peeking over a ledge to see the battlefield should have bullets flying past your head, that's what happens IRL.

You cannot possibly argue that third person adds realism to the game.

 

I said it compensates the lack of FOV in the game. You are pointing out completely different things which are true but doesn't change the fact that it does  what it was added for.

Edited March 26, 2014 by SGT. Kalme

[BeefBacon 1185]

God damn I keep nearly clicking "report" and "spambot". They really need to move those to the other side of the window or something.

 

 

I said it compensates the lack of FOV in the game

 

 

It only compensates for FOV in your immediate surroundings, that is to say what is standing left and right of you within a couple of meters. That's it. Your FOV remains the same besides, like, a one degree increase from being a meter back.

 

So the pros are that you can see things that are next to you, you can see your character running through fields and that, for some, it alleviates motion sickness (which is actually important).

 

The cons are that it allows you to see over and around walls without risking yourself, and it is often literally impossible for other players to see you. You can see over grass when you'd otherwise have your vision obscured. 

 

3pp promotes dirty tactics where the player never has to take any risks to gather intelligence, at the cost of other players who have no chance of ever seeing that player. That's my problem with it. I get situational awareness by using the alt key and by leaning around corners, not by staring at walls or at the roofs of tall buildings. This, in my opinion, is the way the game should be played. Claiming that 3pp increases FOV just isn't true.

 

 

The negligible FOV increase pales in comparison to the negative side effects of 3pp. I respect that people like to play in 3pp, but please don't claim that 3pp simulates a 180 degree FOV.

[SGT. Kalme 106]

It only compensates for FOV in your immediate surroundings, that is to say what is standing left and right of you within a couple of meters. That's it. Your FOV remains the same besides, like, a one degree increase from being a meter back.

 

So the pros are that you can see things that are next to you, you can see your character running through fields and that, for some, it alleviates motion sickness (which is actually important).

 

The cons are that it allows you to see over and around walls without risking yourself, and it is often literally impossible for other players to see you. You can see over grass when you'd otherwise have your vision obscured. 

 

3pp promotes dirty tactics where the player never has to take any risks to gather intelligence, at the cost of other players who have no chance of ever seeing that player. That's my problem with it. I get situational awareness by using the alt key and by leaning around corners, not by staring at walls or at the roofs of tall buildings. This, in my opinion, is the way the game should be played. Claiming that 3pp increases FOV just isn't true.

 

The negligible FOV increase pales in comparison to the negative side effects of 3pp. I respect that people like to play in 3pp, but please don't claim that 3pp simulates a 180 degree FOV.

 

As I posted many posts earlier, it doesn't increase the vision angle in degrees. It possibly couldn't. I don't see where anyone claimed the 3rdP to stimulate 180 degree FOV. It improves your FOV though and not only immediate surroundings. If you draw the lines even further, stopping in LOS, you could see that there is quite a large area that will remain unseen from 1stP. And the distance by eye is more than just 1m from character. So, it does compensate. But neither 3rdP or 1stP stimulates 180 degree FOV unless you have 3 or more screens.

 

Edit: I may start playing HC once I get my keyboard to warranty and have that left Alt fixed. Right now there is no fitting hotkey for free-look that wasn't already bind to some important action. :( But as I don't play right now, it doesn't really matter, I suppose.

Edited March 26, 2014 by SGT. Kalme

[BeefBacon 1185]

As I posted many posts earlier, it doesn't increase the vision angle in degrees. It possibly couldn't. I don't see where anyone claimed the 3rdP to stimulate 180 degree FOV. It improves your FOV though and not only immediate surroundings. If you draw the lines even further, stopping in LOS, you could see that there is quite a large area that will remain unseen from 1stP. And the distance by eye is more than just 1m from character. So, it does compensate. But neither 3rdP or 1stP stimulates 180 degree FOV unless you have 3 or more screens.

 

But the increase is negligible, especially when compared to the way people exploit it.

[SGT. Kalme 106]

But the increase is negligible, especially when compared to the way people exploit it.

 

That increase may be essential for many situations, even though I understand your concern.

[BeefBacon 1185]

That increase may be essential for many situations, even though I understand your concern.

 

If there was some garuantee that nobody would ever use the powers of 3pp for evil then I wouldn't have a problem with it. I prefer 3pp from a casual perspective because it feels more comfortable, and I like seeing my character, but I feel uncomfortable knowing that people are exploiting it, so it puts me in a bit of a quandary.