AKM Sneak peak close to being implemented

[Demoth 366]

Hmm I would still take an AKM, I'd much rather have a definite kill then a wound on a zombie, of course though in a war I would prefer the ak 74.

Read any of Max Brooks' books on zombie survival. Having big calibers is not always the best thing.

Guns aren't even the end all be all either, as they attract more undead.

[Demoth 366]

"(and for that matter, based on weapon effectiveness in the mod, the US would still be using the M14, clearly things were out of whack"

My understanding was that the M16 was adopted over an Air Force general's schmoozing with a contractor, rather than actual concrete data that the M16 and the 5.56 being great. I understand that most combat engagements happen under 300 meters, so battle rifles like the M14 were impractical.

I still disagree with the whole concept of the M16 or 5.56 being wonderful in combat, simply because of feedback I heard from my friends who were in Iraq and Afghanistan all the way to my uncle who was in Vietnam.

[-Gews- 7443]

My understanding was that the M16 was adopted over an Air Force general's schmoozing with a contractor, rather than actual concrete data that the M16 and the 5.56 being great. I understand that most combat engagements happen under 300 meters, so battle rifles like the M14 were impractical.

I still disagree with the whole concept of the M16 or 5.56 being wonderful in combat, simply because of feedback I heard from my friends who were in Iraq and Afghanistan all the way to my uncle who was in Vietnam.

 

There was no conspiracy behind the M16, they adopted it because they thought it would be effective. The number one problem in Vietnam was reliability.

 

Between the M14 and M16, since no weapons in ARMA ever malfunctioned, reliability was a moot point for players. Accuracy was a wash. Recoil was the exact same. So that left the damage.

 

The M14 would knock people out in one solid hit, kill them in two. The M16 would take three or four hits, or more, and would never knock people out.

 

So based on the DayZ mod the 5.56 will ALMOST ALWAYS require an extra 2-3 hits to eliminate an enemy, which is absurd.

 

If the mod (or ARMA) had introduced, say, an M1 Garand, it would have also been IMO a superior combat rifle to M16s or AK-74s, again because it would be a one-shot kill in ARMA and a one-shot knockout in DayZ. The Garand is not a superior combat rifle so this would be a misrepresentation due to exaggerated differences in damage.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Gews

[gibonez 3633]

Ahhh imagine if dayz had a complex wound and damage model. Had all the internal organs modeled and accounted for. Imagine being able to deliver heart shots that quickly bleed out people.

[Mellisco 2]

That is why I said "without a plethora of attachments". No attachments, what's better: M4 or SKS?

 

 

Well...

 

 

Firing on an E-target at 200m an SKS would have something like a 1-in-2 chance of hitting, an M4A1 more like 1-in-10. Without the Magpul or prone and bipod it truly is a spray-and-pray weapon. Without attachments the one and only advantage is that you have up to 50 extra shots if you bump into someone around a corner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That reminds me of this guy's post on Reddit:

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/2086x8/devs_please_dont_screw_up_the_ak74m/

 

Debatable, but the fact remains, the Soviets wouldn't have adopted the AK-74 series if, as in the mod, it was a worse weapon than the AKM.

The Soviets adopted the AK-74 because it was cheaper to make and they had an abundance of the 5.45x39mm round that they made to try and compete with the NATO 5.56x45mm during the Cold War. The only reason the AK74m is still in service with the Russians is because they couldn't afford to mass produce the AN-94. But in reference to that guys Reddit post the 7.62x39mm does do more damage then the 5.45x39mm. Despite the 5.45x39mm having a higher muzzle velocity than the 7.62x39mm, the 5.45x39mm has low energy but a slower moving 7.62x39 has a LOT more energy behind it. (About 1400J for the 5.45x39mm and about 2100J for the 7.62x39) and the more energy you have the greater stopping power you have although that does NOT mean that the 7.62x39mm is more accurate. So if the devs want to do it right than the AK-74m should be more accurate than the AKM but do less damage and vice versa for the AKM. It's a lot like the .338 Lapua vs the .50 BMG. The .338 Lapua is more accurate than the .50 BMG (which is why it's used by most western snipers today for AP) but the .50 BMG has more energy behind it which is why it's mainly used for shooting out engine blocks instead of hitting personnel (although it has been done). /endrant  

Edited March 19, 2014 by Mellisco

[hombrecz 832]

I can agree that DayZ SA damage model needs a lot of tweaking.

I certainly would not want to see the situation same as in mod, where it took two pistol magazines to kill anybody (torso shots).

 

Still I disagree that AK74 is vastly superior over AKM :-).

[hombrecz 832]

The guy refers to the 5.45mm as "5.56" in two separate posts, so hey, there's a clue he may not be well-informed. His post raises valid points nevertheless.

 

 

If you are refering to me, then you clearly misunderstood what I wrote.

Russians were inspired by USA going lower caliber in Vietnam, ofc Russian had their own 5,45x39. I was not suggesting that Russians used the same caliber as USA, only that it was as well lower calibre then what was used before (AK47-AKM).

 

Also if you are answering my post, it is a bit confusing to start it with "the guy refers", if you mean to address me. It seems a tad arrogant which is a trait I personally dislike a lot.

 

Regarding 7,62x39 vs 5,45x39, if I should choose whether to trust your opinion or one of Kalashnikov himself.....I think you can guess which one carries a ton more value.

[AlexLM 31]

In Chechnya motorised troops preferred where possible to use AKM rifles over the AK-74 in the mountains, because the larger heavier bullet could smash through the thick forests the Chechens used to hide in and attack convoys.

[-Gews- 7443]

The Soviets adopted the AK-74 because it was cheaper to make and they had an abundance of the 5.45x39mm round that they made to try and compete with the NATO 5.56x45mm during the Cold War. The only reason the AK74m is still in service with the Russians is because they couldn't afford to mass produce the AN-94. But in reference to that guys Reddit post the 7.62x39mm does do more damage then the 5.45x39mm. Despite the 5.45x39mm having a higher muzzle velocity than the 7.62x39mm, the 5.45x39mm has low energy but a slower moving 7.62x39 has a LOT more energy behind it. (About 1400J for the 5.45x39mm and about 2100J for the 7.62x39) and the more energy you have the greater stopping power you have although that does NOT mean that the 7.62x39mm is more accurate. So if the devs want to do it right than the AK-74m should be more accurate than the AKM but do less damage and vice versa for the AKM. It's a lot like the .338 Lapua vs the .50 BMG. The .338 Lapua is more accurate than the .50 BMG (which is why it's used by most western snipers today for AP) but the .50 BMG has more energy behind it which is why it's mainly used for shooting out engine blocks instead of hitting personnel (although it has been done). /endrant

 

 

The AK-74 is not cheaper to make, you must be thinking of the stamped AKM that replaced the milled AK-47s. Both the AK74 and the AKM are stamped and they had no stores of 5.45mm before the AK74...

Muzzle energy does not equal "stopping power". It depends on the bullet. If the bullet doesn't take advantage of the energy then it doesn't matter whether it's 1500 or 3000 joules. As I posted before the Soviet M43 bullet was not a good design in terms of wounding potential.

 

 

From Martin Fackler:

 

"This author observed, on many occasions, the damage pattern shown in Fig. 2 while treating battle casualties in Da-Nang, Vietnam (1968). The typical path through the abdomen caused minimal disruption; holes in organs were similar to those caused by a non-hollow-point handgun bullet. The average uncomplicated thigh wound was about what one would expect from a low-powered handgun: a small, punctuate entrance and exit wound with minimum intervening muscle disruption."

 

 

 

 

However the bullets in-game are not M43. They are so-called hollow points (the "so-called" is because they aren't properly designed). M43 is only one type of ammunition, but it was the standard Soviet bullet.

 

Also if you are answering my post, it is a bit confusing to start it with "the guy refers", if you mean to address me. It seems a tad arrogant which is a trait I personally dislike a lot.

 

 

"EpicDogeSter on Reddit refers"

 

 

Regarding 7,62x39 vs 5,45x39, if I should choose whether to trust your opinion or one of Kalashnikov himself.....I think you can guess which one carries a ton more value.

 

 

Both of these rounds have advantages over one another.

 

And what is my opinion?

 

Because as far as I can recall, I made no statement on which round was "better", I merely pointed out some facts and said that the AK74M and the 5.45x39mm should be far superior to that horrible peashooter we had in the mod... and that the AKM should no longer be a "superior" weapon in every respect.

 

"there are pros and cons for both AKM and AK-74, but the OP's basic point is correct: if it sucked as much as it did in the mod, the Soviets would never have adopted it"

[Mellisco 2]

The AK-74 is not cheaper to make, you must be thinking of the stamped AKM that replaced the milled AK-47s. Both the AK74 and the AKM are stamped and they had no stores of 5.45mm before the AK74...

Muzzle energy does not equal "stopping power". It depends on the bullet. If the bullet doesn't take advantage of the energy then it doesn't matter whether it's 1500 or 3000 joules. As I posted before the Soviet M43 bullet was not a good design in terms of wounding potential.

 

 

From Martin Fackler:

 

"This author observed, on many occasions, the damage pattern shown in Fig. 2 while treating battle casualties in Da-Nang, Vietnam (1968). The typical path through the abdomen caused minimal disruption; holes in organs were similar to those caused by a non-hollow-point handgun bullet. The average uncomplicated thigh wound was about what one would expect from a low-powered handgun: a small, punctuate entrance and exit wound with minimum intervening muscle disruption."

 

 

 

 

However the bullets in-game are not M43. They are so-called hollow points (the "so-called" is because they aren't properly designed). M43 is only one type of ammunition, but it was the standard Soviet bullet.

 

 

 

"EpicDogeSter on Reddit refers"

 

 

 

 

Both of these rounds have advantages over one another.

 

And what is my opinion?

 

Because as far as I can recall, I made no statement on which round was "better", I merely pointed out some facts and said that the AK74M and the 5.45x39mm should be far superior to that horrible peashooter we had in the mod... and that the AKM should no longer be a "superior" weapon in every respect.

 

"there are pros and cons for both AKM and AK-74, but the OP's basic point is correct: if it sucked as much as it did in the mod, the Soviets would never have adopted it"

Fuck yeah you're right I am thinking of the stamped AKM. And I didn't mean that they had stores of 5.45x39mm before the AK-74 I meant that they produced way more of it than 7,62.39mm once they pretty much decided that the AK-74 was going to be the new service rifle. Like I said in my post and like you said in yours, both of the rifles have their pros and cons and I don't think one should be better than the other in every way. It should be a question of how you're going to use the rifle. Do you want something to run around and kill people in cities/buildings? AKM. Or, do you want an accurate platform that you can use to fight in the open fields of Chernarus? AK-74m.

[theswedishcathead 59]

The AK-74 is not cheaper to make, you must be thinking of the stamped AKM that replaced the milled AK-47s. Both the AK74 and the AKM are stamped and they had no stores of 5.45mm before the AK74...

Muzzle energy does not equal "stopping power". It depends on the bullet. If the bullet doesn't take advantage of the energy then it doesn't matter whether it's 1500 or 3000 joules. As I posted before the Soviet M43 bullet was not a good design in terms of wounding potential.

 

 

From Martin Fackler:

 

"This author observed, on many occasions, the damage pattern shown in Fig. 2 while treating battle casualties in Da-Nang, Vietnam (1968). The typical path through the abdomen caused minimal disruption; holes in organs were similar to those caused by a non-hollow-point handgun bullet. The average uncomplicated thigh wound was about what one would expect from a low-powered handgun: a small, punctuate entrance and exit wound with minimum intervening muscle disruption."

 

 

 

 

However the bullets in-game are not M43. They are so-called hollow points (the "so-called" is because they aren't properly designed). M43 is only one type of ammunition, but it was the standard Soviet bullet.

 

 

 

"EpicDogeSter on Reddit refers"

 

 

 

 

Both of these rounds have advantages over one another.

 

And what is my opinion?

 

Because as far as I can recall, I made no statement on which round was "better", I merely pointed out some facts and said that the AK74M and the 5.45x39mm should be far superior to that horrible peashooter we had in the mod... and that the AKM should no longer be a "superior" weapon in every respect.

 

"there are pros and cons for both AKM and AK-74, but the OP's basic point is correct: if it sucked as much as it did in the mod, the Soviets would never have adopted it"

Wow you are one obessed AKM person. what have you have typed 10 comments on my forum now? about 1 feet long texts. god dang. xD

[harryzhe 28]

psst

http://puu.sh/7xyki

[rickenbacker 190]

Looking forward to getting some more eastern guns! I would be more excited if we could get rid of the "cone of fire", though. The AKM will probably be fine up to 50m, after that it will be random chance if you hit anything at all, even if your sights are perfectly lined up on it. 

[liquidsnake 275]

Damn it would be hard to choose between the new AK and my Mosin...

[gibonez 3633]

Damn it would be hard to choose between the new AK and my Mosin...

Sadly that shouldn't be the case.

If the weapons had realistic properties nobody would purposely carry a mosin.

[agouti 105]

The 7.62 rimmed round is flatter shooting than the m43 and penetrates cover better than the 5.45x39. Small fast rounds cause superior wounding because they have a tendency to fragment within 150 yards. Large heavy rounds also do this if sufficiently fast. The m43 is not. Personally, I'd like to see two variants on the mosin. One with a straight bolt that shoots 2-4 moa and one with a bent bolt that shoots much less, and would be an appropriate long range rifle. That'd be a reason to choose the mosin. It'd be a long range rifle that uses common ammo. Also, different ammo types, standard and "match".

[gibonez 3633]

The 7.62 rimmed round is flatter shooting than the m43 and penetrates cover better than the 5.45x39. Small fast rounds cause superior wounding because they have a tendency to fragment within 150 yards. Large heavy rounds also do this if sufficiently fast. The m43 is not. Personally, I'd like to see two variants on the mosin. One with a straight bolt that shoots 2-4 moa and one with a bent bolt that shoots much less, and would be an appropriate long range rifle. That'd be a reason to choose the mosin. It'd be a long range rifle that uses common ammo. Also, different ammo types, standard and "match".

I would still throw away that mosin for an akm or m4. I do wanna see the mosin get reworked once more guns are added.

Once we get a proper sniper rifle or hunting rifles like the remington 700.

Then do the following to the mosin.

- make it a 4 moa gun

- remove the ability to mount a bipod or lrs

- add a melee animation for the bayonet.

In addition to that I wanna see the m44 added love the carbine mosin.

[dvsilverwing 241]

Don't like the bulged handguards on the AKM, personally, doesn't look fitting. (Then again, I also think all the semi pistols having extended threaded barrels is also ugly, too.)

[a_ruttle 199]

I hope it has a good sound unlike the vanilla arma/dayz mod one [use the AKM sound from ACE sound mod pls]

[igor-vk 909]

Hopefully the Current "Yugo" Compensator that's built into the SKS will be removed and introduced into the loot table as an attachment.

its not "Yugo" Compensator, it is used for lounching rifle granades

[Katana67 2907]

Rather than making a reach-around PSO optic for it, I'd rather they just give it a RIS attachment for the current (and future) crop of optics to use.

 

Could serve to differentiate the AKM from the M4A1 by disallowing it from mounting optics as standard. But then, having the RIS system encompass both optics mounts and flashlight/bipod (and potential foregrip) mounts once installed.

 

See this...

 

http://www.fab-defense.com/en/category-rail-systems-and-mounting-solutions/id-180/ak-47-aluminum-rail-system.html

 

I'm still on the fence about whether or not I want optics to be weapon-specific. It's kind of silly not being able to mount a LRS on an M4, or being stuck with the SKS and PU scope being readily available (and the arguably worse set-up of the M4 w/ ACOG being relatively rare).

[gibonez 3633]

Rather than making a reach-around PSO optic for it, I'd rather they just give it a RIS attachment for the current (and future) crop of optics to use.

Could serve to differentiate the AKM from the M4A1 by disallowing it from mounting optics as standard. But then, having the RIS system encompass both optics mounts and flashlight/bipod (and potential foregrip) mounts once installed.

See this...

http://www.fab-defense.com/en/category-rail-systems-and-mounting-solutions/id-180/ak-47-aluminum-rail-system.html

I'm still on the fence about whether or not I want optics to be weapon-specific. It's kind of silly not being able to mount a LRS on an M4, or being stuck with the SKS and PU scope being readily available (and the arguably worse set-up of the M4 w/ ACOG being relatively rare).

Yea the accessories system needs a complete overhaul.

I want a system where mounting accessories makes sense. Meaning only accessories that easily mount with little to no tools would work on certain weapons.

So no lrs on the mosin no bipod either.

LRS on any hunting rifle and weapon with rails.

Suppressors on weapons with threaded barrels.

Simply put I don't want a universal accessory system they is unrealistic and not authentic. Atm with how the lrs mounts on the mosin what's stopping them from mounting an ACOG on there.

[Katana67 2907]

Yea the accessories system needs a complete overhaul.

I want a system where mounting accessories makes sense. Meaning only accessories that easily mount with little to no tools would work on certain weapons.

So no lrs on the mosin no bipod either.

LRS on any hunting rifle and weapon with rails.

Suppressors on weapons with threaded barrels.

Simply put I don't want a universal accessory system they is unrealistic and not authentic. Atm with how the lrs mounts on the mosin what's stopping them from mounting an ACOG on there.

 

I mean, rail systems (and certainly bipods) exist for the Mosin. It's not completely out of the question.

 

 

The last I checked, even for mounting a PU scope on an SKS/Mosin, you pretty much need a gunsmith to install the mounting bracket properly. So it's not as modular as I think some might have conjured it up to be. If I remember correctly, you need to actually CUT the wood of the Mosin's stock to fit the PU mounting bracket.

 

I mean, if you wanted to get really technical, you could include things like mounting brackets into the loot spawns. But I'm not sure I'd be in favor of that, seems a bit cumbersome for most weapons which aren't as modular as the AR platform (which is most of the weapons in DayZ).

 

But the M4 is inherently modular, so it should be able to fit a LRS (whatever specific model is used in DayZ).

Edited March 19, 2014 by Katana67

[Beastmanss 40]

Cant wait, and coloring akm would be nice :D

[gibonez 3633]

I mean, rail systems (and certainly bipods) exist for the Mosin. It's not completely out of the question.

The last I checked, even for mounting a PU scope on an SKS/Mosin, you pretty much need a gunsmith to install the mounting bracket properly. So it's not as modular as I think some might have conjured it up to be. If I remember correctly, you need to actually CUT the wood of the Mosin's stock to fit the PU mounting bracket.

I mean, if you wanted to get really technical, you could include things like mounting brackets into the loot spawns. But I'm not sure I'd be in favor of that, seems a bit cumbersome for most weapons which aren't as modular as the AR platform (which is most of the weapons in DayZ).

But the M4 is inherently modular, so it should be able to fit a LRS (whatever specific model is used in DayZ).

They do exist but what would be the chances of finding these parts in chenarus.

I always assumed the lrs and bipod working on the mosin was a placeholder since no modular hunting or precision rifles such as the remington 700 were in the game yet.

Even the lrs itself screams place holder it has a simple duplex reticles and not a range finding reticle such as a mildot