AKM Sneak peak close to being implemented

[gibonez 3633]

LMAO at people who think DayZ became popular because of it's milsim heritage. It became popular because it was a sandbox world filled with zombies.

Of course it's mil sim gunplay made it popular. You think the shitty janky zombies did?

You think the buggy ass loot system or the hacking did?

No dayz was popular because of the mil sim pvp gameplay the realism and the huge map.

[oregonized 673]

Of course it's mil sim gunplay made it popular. You think the shitty janky zombies did?

You think the buggy ass loot system or the hacking did?

No dayz was popular because of the mil sim pvp gameplay the realism and the huge map.

It was something new to do and had zombies.  That is what really made it popular.  It doesn't matter how buggy it was or how many hackers there was because guess what, both of those things still persist in the standalone and it still sells.

[So Sexy 259]

It was something new to do and had zombies. That is what really made it popular. It doesn't matter how buggy it was or how many hackers there was because guess what, both of those things still persist in the standalone and it still sells.

SA sells thanks to the mod, not the content it has atm.

[oregonized 673]

SA sells thanks to the mod, not the content it has atm.

Also SA sells because of the emphasis on making the zombies and survival having a bigger role in the game.  It isn't because of some milsim roots.

[liquidsnake 275]

Dude do some research. The mosin Nagant surplus rifles you can find today are pieces of shit. They are not sniper rifles nor are they able to any sort of precision work .

In order to make a mosin serviceable past 600m you will need to do a lot of gun smithing.

Are you kidding me??? There are not only a lot of them, but they are also still in civilian use today. They are anything but pieces of shit, maybe you're talking about WW2 Nagants that have been buried in mud for 70 years... They obviously can't compete with today's sniper rifles but they're fine rifles for sure

[gibonez 3633]

Are you kidding me??? There are not only a lot of them, but they are also still in civilian use today. They are anything but pieces of shit, maybe you're talking about WW2 Nagants that have been buried in mud for 70 years... They obviously can't compete with today's sniper rifles but they're fine rifles for sure

Not a lot of them Wtf? There are literally still millions of them and they only cost 100 dollars.

For 100 dollars they are OK rifles but nothing close to being sniper rifles they are about 4 moa at 100m with surplus ammo and that's being generous.

[oregonized 673]

I'll take my Remington 700 over any prehistoric rifle.

[So Sexy 259]

Not a lot of them Wtf? There are literally still millions of them and they only cost 100 dollars.

For 100 dollars they are OK rifles but nothing close to being sniper rifles they are about 4 moa at 100m with surplus ammo and that's being generous.

100 m? Everything is clear now, I wont even bother to start arguing with this person.

[gibonez 3633]

I'll take my Remington 700 over any prehistoric rifle.

Pretty much. Take a bone stock remington 700 and some match grade ammo and you got a sub moa rifle.

With a mosin you would need a ton of work and a lot of money to even get close to the same accuracy.

[Buffaloe 87]

The Ak looks awesome. Nevertheless I hope they will lower the spawn rate of each individual military rifle, now that new ones are beeing implemented, to keep them rare. The M4 already feels a little too common.

 

On the Mosin discussion: I am no expert on firearms, but the mosin is a very long rifle, originally designed for longer range combat. A Mosin in good condition should probably be more accurate than the way shorter M4, which also uses shorter (so less stable in flight?) ammunition.

[xenology 61]

Sure just send the parts to Detroit and find the meanest guys you can possibly think of.

Detroit isn't that bad where you from Warren? 6 Mile 11?

[rickyspanish 158]

Not played in awhile due to no updates (not complaining just got bored and waiting) but the flawed weapon accuracy and ridiculous attachment feature were a must fix for me, and its quite annoying that it hasn't been fixed yet. I mean its mostly just numbers that need tweaking isn't it?

I find it really annoying coming from the mod where weapons and tactics were deadly, I used to love aiming my rifle at a player who isn't aware I'm there at about 400m with an M4 and waiting for that clear, clean shot. But now I need to fire a full clip just to get a hit. Why? because my character isnt trained? So for some reason his shot completely miss even though my sights are dead on. Stupid shit.

And what happened to this?

- Weapons: Ballistic parameters of all projectiles tweaked for more realism (special thanks to Gews for his great analysis on weapon characteristics)

Edited March 18, 2014 by Ricky Spanish

[gibonez 3633]

The Ak looks awesome. Nevertheless I hope they will lower the spawn rate of each individual military rifle, now that new ones are beeing implemented, to keep them rare. The M4 already feels a little too common.

On the Mosin discussion: I am no expert on firearms, but the mosin is a very long rifle, originally designed for longer range combat. A Mosin in good condition should probably be more accurate than the way shorter M4, which also uses shorter (so less stable in flight?) ammunition.

Barrel length has little to do with accuracy.

Barrel length means higher potential muzzle velocity.

Some people say a shorter barrel is more accurate due to less barrel flex and whip.

This would explain why shorter bull barrels are so accurate.

[xRann 126]

And what happened to this?

- Weapons: Ballistic parameters of all projectiles tweaked for more realism (special thanks to Gews for his great analysis on weapon characteristics)

I believe this was just the ballistic velocities that Gews addressed in http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/157148-correcting-sa-ballistics/?hl=gews

[-Gews- 7443]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe 100 year old snipers (undamaged of course) are more accurate than an M4. The Mosin remains a sniper and the M4 remains a CQ weapon, period.

The true "sniper" rifles were hand-picked and more attention was paid to them.

The Mosin in-game is not a "sniper":

1. It was initially modeled after a standard Mosin

2. The bolt handle is incorrect for a "sniper", which means it's a Chernarussian Bubba job

It's also a hex receiver which means if it were a sniper, it should mount a PEM and not a PU.

In any case the accuracy depends on the individual rifle and the shooter and the ammunition. One person's Mosin might print 2" at 100 yds and another's 6".

Average Mosins do not have a reputation for tack-driving accuracy but a 3-4 MOA rifle could still place all its shots well within the black of a 200 yard NRA target...

 

And what happened to this?

- Weapons: Ballistic parameters of all projectiles tweaked for more realism (special thanks to Gews for his great analysis on weapon characteristics)

Ballistics in the sense of:

-velocities

-aerodynamics

-snaploaders that were reducing damage

As it says "ballistic parameters of all projectiles tweaked", not weapons.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Gews

[rickyspanish 158]

Ballistics in the sense of:

-velocities

-aerodynamics

-snaploaders that were reducing damage

Ahh fair enough lol, I read it as overall weapon ballistics. I'm not very technical when it comes to this sort of thing but I do know that the accuracy is pretty terrible and that the attachments alter some daft things. I hate the dispersion how it is, i wouldn't mind if there was more weapon drift while aiming to simulate that your character isn't the steadiest aim, the randomness is just bad.

[gibonez 3633]

Ahh fair enough lol, I read it as overall weapon ballistics. I'm not very technical when it comes to this sort of thing but I do know that the accuracy is pretty terrible and that the attachments alter some daft things. I hate the dispersion how it is, i wouldn't mind if there was more weapon drift while aiming to simulate that your character isn't the steadiest aim, the randomness is just bad.

Yea weapon sway, recoil are all better ways to do weapon handling. Dispersion is not.

Ace style weapons are perfect especially weapon resting and bipod deployment.

[hombrecz 832]

 

 

That reminds me of this guy's post on Reddit:

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/dayz/comments/2086x8/devs_please_dont_screw_up_the_ak74m/

 

Debatable, but the fact remains, the Soviets wouldn't have adopted the AK-74 series if, as in the mod, it was a worse weapon than the AKM.

 

That guy's post is funny. He claims that AK74 should do more damage then AKM, which is nonsence.

Just recently I saw a documentary with Mikhail Kalashnikov and he said, that it was grave mistake for Russians to blindly follow American M16 and adopting smaller calibre of 5,45x39. 

 

Also if smaller calibre was so godly (which it isnt), why the most likely near future calibre gonna be 6,5 or 6,8 ?

 

It almost seem as if you gonna bash whatever Devs gonna make. But please, supporting of AKM being weaker then AK-74? It's just plain wrong and you know it.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Hombre

[-Gews- 7443]

I hate the dispersion how it is, i wouldn't mind if there was more weapon drift while aiming to simulate that your character isn't the steadiest aim, the randomness is just bad.

I don't hate the randomness per se, I hate the inconsistency.

 

 

For the sake of argument let's say these rifles are:

 

M4A1 = 3 MOA

Mosin = 3 MOA

SKS = 4 MOA

 

 

(for comparison purposes the numbers don't really matter because the typical accuracy of these rifles are all pretty close with iron sights and it varies with each one anyways)

 

And let's suppose they chose the following values in-game:

 

M4A1 = 12 MOA

Mosin = 12 MOA

SKS = 16 MOA

 

 

In this case I might or might not disagree with the amount of random spread, but at least an attempt has been made to keep it consistent - all the rifles have been multiplied by 4 times.

 

So it can be argued it is realistic in the "big picture" sense to account for "combat accuracy" (ACE mod GREATLY increases random dispersion compared to ARMA, generally 2x-4x).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyways, skip to the current DayZ build and you have terrible inconsistency between the rifles:

 

Mosin = 9 MOA

SKS = 17 MOA

M4A1 = 41 MOA

 

 

 

 

This inconsistency bothers me more than the actual amount of spread, if they gave all rifles a flat "2x" or "3x" typical "real life" spread, it could still be argued the game was realistic...

 

But giving one rifle "2x" and another "12x" or "36x" or whatever is totally random and there's no logic or possible explanations behind it apart from "balancing".

 

 

 

 

 

Inconsistency drives me nuts.

[gibonez 3633]

That guy's post is funny. He claims that AK74 should do more damage then AKM, which is nonsence.

Just recently I saw a documentary with Mikhail Kalashnikov and he said, that it was grave mistake for Russians to blindly follow American M16 and adopting smaller calibre of 5,45x39.

Also if smaller calibre was so godly (which it isnt), why the most likely near future calibre gonna be 6,5 or 6,8 ?

It almost seem as if you gonna bash whatever Devs gonna make. But please, supporting of AKM being weaker then AK-74? It's just plain wrong and you know it.

Hmm the 5.45x39mm creates nasty wounds. Meanwhile the 7.62x39mm mostly just passes through people at least most of the common loads i know some of the loads were later made to yaw and spin like their smaller counterparts.

Also no military will adopt the 6.8 or 6.5 calibers for a very long time if ever.

556 is here to stay it performs adequately and it is even performing well at long range with modern bullets like the 77 grain smk bullet.

[kaix12 34]

Hmm the 5.45x39mm creates nasty wounds. Meanwhile the 7.62x39mm mostly just passes through people at least most of the common loads i know some of the loads were later made to yaw and spin like their smaller counterparts.

Also no military will adopt the 6.8 or 6.5 calibers for a very long time if ever.

556 is here to stay it performs adequately and it is even performing well at long range with modern bullets like the 77 grain smk bullet.

Only just adequete, if this was the cold war 5.56 would of been gone by now, only reason it is still here is because of the costs involved in switching ammo types.

 

Also the 5.45 does make some nasty wounds, but it is less likely to kill as the whole going in is a lot smaller and overall the amount of damage it does is less, although it does tumble a lot making some nasty internal wounds but externally not so much, so say you shoot a abdomen: 7.62 = big hole in big hole out, pretty much straight through, if it was a skull it would blow a huge amount of bone off

                                                                                                        5.45 = small hole in bigger hole out lower down, lots of mess inside, if you shot a skull it might just go straight through as it could lack the substance                                                                                                   tumble enough

[hombrecz 832]

Hmm the 5.45x39mm creates nasty wounds. Meanwhile the 7.62x39mm mostly just passes through people at least most of the common loads i know some of the loads were later made to yaw and spin like their smaller counterparts.

Also no military will adopt the 6.8 or 6.5 calibers for a very long time if ever.

556 is here to stay it performs adequately and it is even performing well at long range with modern bullets like the 77 grain smk bullet.

 

Nah, true reason why armies are not adopting 6,8 or 6,5 quickly are most likely the costs. Everything is set up for manufacture of 5,56 , there are huge stockpiles of these available, so it would be costly to rearm. Still I think the time will come and maybe soon then you think, guess we shall see.

Although in these times, where US are cutting their army to historical minimums (supposedly A-10 are to be scraped, number of soldiers down to 450 000 etc) it is hard to imagine they would burn money on rearming to superior calibers.

 

Regarding 5,45x39 being more lethal then 7,62x39 I do not think it was proven.

Only thing I can give you is that due to less recoil, the AK-74 will be more accurate then AKM.

Still I'd rather take AKM then AK-74 if ammo was not concern. Btw AKMS was quite popular with Russian Spetsnaz units, I believe these guys know their trade.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Hombre

[-Gews- 7443]

]That guy's post is funny. He claims that AK74 should do more damage then AKM, which is nonsence.

Just recently I saw a documentary with Mikhail Kalashnikov and he said, that it was grave mistake for Russians to blindly follow American M16 and adopting smaller calibre of 5,45x39. 

 

Also if smaller calibre was so godly (which it isnt), why the most likely near future calibre gonna be 6,5 or 6,8 ?

 

It almost seem as if you gonna bash whatever Devs gonna make. But please, supporting of AKM being weaker then AK-74? It's just plain wrong and you know it.

The guy refers to the 5.45mm as "5.56" in two separate posts, so hey, there's a clue he may not be well-informed. His post raises valid points nevertheless.

The main points you should be taking from his post are:

[a] the mod's AKM was far superior and the AK-74 was junk compared

in real life the AK-74 is not junk

But please, supporting of AKM being weaker then AK-74? It's just plain wrong and you know it.

I certainly don't support it being weaker...

...but for your information here are the ballistic gelatin wound profiles of the two standard Soviet rounds of the Cold War, the 7.62x39mm M43 and the 5.45x39mm 7N6.

The pink is the depth of the average human torso. As you can see, the M43 just punches a .30-caliber hole while the 7N6 yaws early and flips end-over-end. That 7N6 bullet is just over an inch long. The temporary cavity from the 7N6 is also much larger.

What I support is sensible values. The damage in the mod made the AKM far more desirable and made the AK-74 comparative crap. We should all know the damages were off, they were all based only on muzzle energy. We saw how well that method worked with the ridiculously low pistol damage.

Also the US cartridge will be the same old 5.56 for the foreseeable future, and the devs haven't made ANY decisions in regards to the AK-74M apart from placing it on "indefinite" hold, so I don't see how I could be bashing their AK-74M decisions without help from Marty McFly.

For the record here were my contributions to that topic, I see no bashing of the standalone or any suggestion of making 7.62x39 weaker than 5.45x39:

...

2) most of the damage values in the mod were complete nonsense and tended to place importance almost entirely on the cartridge your weapon was chambered for

...

4) the AK-74 was done a great injustice in the mod, if I was an AK-74, I would be very angry

5) wounding potential does not correlate with energy or velocity or momentum, with these rounds it's all about the bullet design

6) placement > caliber and a flatter shooting, lighter recoiling, more accurate AK-74 can give you a better chance of placing your shots in the right spot to begin with

7) there are pros and cons for both AKM and AK-74, but the OP's basic point is correct: if it sucked as much as it did in the mod, the Soviets would never have adopted it (and for that matter, based on weapon effectiveness in the mod, the US would still be using the M14, clearly things were out of whack)

[gibonez 3633]

The Ak 74 is also much flatter shooting than the akm.

The ak74 would be my go to rifle especially over a akm.

The only way an akm would be better is if dayz had Arma 3s super cool bullet penetration and ballistics. I would imagine the 7.62x39mm would punch right through most walls and cover.

[kaix12 34]

Hmm I would still take an AKM, I'd much rather have a definite kill then a wound on a zombie, of course though in a war I would prefer the ak 74.