Would You Balance The M4 and How / Bow and Arrow Discussion?

[taco86 156]

Crap Damage?

 

In terms of KE, a m855 5.56 round has around 20x more energy than an arrow fired from a long bow...  That being said, lethality is not directly proportional to the amount of KE...  In terms of how "lethal" each j of energy is, the arrow is far more efficient, however in terms of raw "power" a bullet far exceeds pretty much any arrow...  As one final comparison, a typical arrow fired from a typical hunting bow has about 1/50th the KE of a 7.62x51mm...

Edited March 17, 2014 by taco86

[dvsilverwing 241]

I'm actually pretty disappointed to hear they're adding homemade bows to the game. I have nothing against adding Compound Bows or Crossbows to the loot spawn, in fact I'd like to see that. But adding the ability to craft bows gives fresh spawning players easy access to a ranged weapon, and the chances are that once this is added creating a bow will become priority #1 for a freshly spawned player, and this game will wind up turning into a cowboys and indians simulator with the sheer amount of low-geared players running around with a homemade bow.

[soulfirez 901]

I'm actually pretty disappointed to hear they're adding homemade bows to the game. I have nothing against adding Compound Bows or Crossbows to the loot spawn, in fact I'd like to see that. But adding the ability to craft bows gives fresh spawning players easy access to a ranged weapon, and the chances are that once this is added creating a bow will become priority #1 for a freshly spawned player, and this game will wind up turning into a cowboys and indians simulator with the sheer amount of low-geared players running around with a homemade bow.

Honestly not seeing the down side to crafted bows?? i am not sure how easy they will be to craft so kinda hard to say what your saying your pretty much just making a huge HUGE guess.. To be honest by the tone ( i could be wrong hard to judge tone in writing lol) i am hearing a guy who wont be able to kill fresh spawns as easily because wow they may shoot back even if it is with a low effective use home made bow..

 

Oh wow you mean fresh spawns wont have to kill themselves in towns looking for food and basic gear when they might MIGHT be able to make a weapon that will allow them to hunt food and have a very limited level of protection at range from the ass hats sitting on the coast after plundering an airport then returning to murder as much as they can.

 

Basicly i think it will be a good change but who knows till we see how its implemented so maybe saving ya crying till then...

 

Edit i am guessing step 1 for fresh spawn might still be food or perhaps improvised spears which are also coming and one would imagine easier to make if less effective but still possible to hunt and kill food with or zeds or some bandit douche you catch with his pants down ...

 

As for the m4 i still find it kinda sad at how bad it is now ( not that i havee ever liked using it ) the couple times i tried it i was like wow this aint even close to the real rifle..

Edited March 17, 2014 by SoulFirez

[Katana67 2907]

Weapons should be balanced through rarity, ammo scarcity, maintenance requirements, and weight/mobility requirements. None of which have really been addressed in Standalone, because it's Alpha and it's early in the aforementioned Alpha process. I have no doubt that they'll balance the weapons in the ways mentioned above when it's time.

 

Never should they be balanced, in DayZ, through artificial stat changes like "accuracy", "ROF", "range", or "reload times" unless it's not in line with reality.

Edited March 17, 2014 by Katana67

[Whyherro123 2283]

An arrow can go several hundred yards, effective range is of course much lower, so I assume that's what he means... depends on how one defines effective range: Ethical hunting? Quite short. Man-sized target? Longer. Volley fire into enemy ranks? Etc.

Yeah, pretty much. I can aim my bow into the sky and launch an arrow across half a mile of water in my backyard (exaggerating for effect). Will I hit anything at that distance? (Besides water?) Hell no. My effective range with a compound bow, with all the modern bells and whistles (like sights, counterbalances, and recoil absorbers) is about 30 meters, 40 on a good day with no wind. Using an "older" recurve bow, my effective range is shorter, probably much shorter. I wouldn't trust myself to make a kill-shot on an animal at that distance, either.

[Whyherro123 2283]

As an archer I wonder why would a bow have a range of 40-50 meters tops. 

 

Also a Welsh-style longbow would be made out of yew. Just saying :)

I used birch because it grows everywhere by my house, and I am not going to drop $100+ on a bow that I, for all intents and purposes, am just going to play around with. The birch has the D-shaped cross-section, is 5 feet long, and shoots arrows well enough for the purposes I use it for. It looks like a longbow, so I call it a longbow. : P

[Duenan 226]

PVC bows are the best and the cheapest and they can be made in 15-20 minutes from a 5 foot piece of 1/2 inch schedualee 40 pvc pipe. They will have aproximately 25-55lbs of force depending on how you shape the bow.

 

This guy is Nick Tomihama and yes. That bow is made of pvc pipe. and painted green. It is on par with any $100-150 entry fiberglass bow that I've ever shot

 

[Accolyte 1727]

 

Yeah, pretty much. I can aim my bow into the sky and launch an arrow across half a mile of water in my backyard (exaggerating for effect). Will I hit anything at that distance? (Besides water?) Hell no. My effective range with a compound bow, with all the modern bells and whistles (like sights, counterbalances, and recoil absorbers) is about 30 meters, 40 on a good day with no wind. Using an "older" recurve bow, my effective range is shorter, probably much shorter. I wouldn't trust myself to make a kill-shot on an animal at that distance, either.

 

You got that right. 40m is pretty much easy for a trained archer who is using sights even without recoil absorbers and all the fancy things. With sights you would be able to hit kill shots at 100ish meters with some training. However without the recoil absorbers, fatigue would start affecting your accuracy after a few shots.

 

I used birch because it grows everywhere by my house, and I am not going to drop $100+ on a bow that I, for all intents and purposes, am just going to play around with. The birch has the D-shaped cross-section, is 5 feet long, and shoots arrows well enough for the purposes I use it for. It looks like a longbow, so I call it a longbow. : P

 

Of course, I was just being smart ;)

[guppy22143 1081]

They say he survived the feedback tracker with nothing but an old bow string, a PVC pipe and sharpened sticks... But I don't believe it.

[gibonez 3633]

can i get some suspension of disbelief up in this motherfucker!?

can i get some un-realistic features up in this zombie apocolypse shooter!?

The more realism is added the better.

It's bad enough already that you can heal A life threatening gunshot with simple rags. Or that bullets are not affected by wind.

[Irish. 4886]

It's bad enough already that you can heal A life threatening gunshot with simple rags. 

I mean... it could just be a flesh wound. Because a life threatening wound is only stopped by rags. You have to eat, and blood/saline.. wait it out, etc.. to actually heal from a life threatening gunshot in Dayz.

 

But I totally get your point. Im just being a bit of an arse ;)

Edited March 17, 2014 by lrish

[Daemonkid 493]

So basically you just said that because we adjusted the accuracy of one weapon we would adjust the range of another? I don't follow that logic.

 

I do realize you're trolling, I just wanted to point out how poor an attempt that was.

 

There would be little to no difference in range based on the skill of the archer (i.e. anyone can draw a bow and release it). Accuracy on the other hand would most definitely be bound to the skill of the archer. Even more so than with firearms in my opinion.

Trolling? Ain't nobody trolling. It was simply a remark about how the accuracy of the M4 is STILL garbage at this point in time due to cone of fire. You're going to fuck up the bows something fierce at the start just like the M4 is fucked. 

[gibonez 3633]

Trolling? Ain't nobody trolling. It was simply a remark about how the accuracy of the M4 is STILL garbage at this point in time due to cone of fire. You're going to fuck up the bows something fierce at the start just like the M4 is fucked.

Dayz where beat up 100 year old mosin Nagants with cracked crowns and surplus ammo are more accurate than newly issued

M4s with new manufacturer ammo....

[dvsilverwing 241]

Honestly not seeing the down side to crafted bows?? i am not sure how easy they will be to craft so kinda hard to say what your saying your pretty much just making a huge HUGE guess.. To be honest by the tone ( i could be wrong hard to judge tone in writing lol) i am hearing a guy who wont be able to kill fresh spawns as easily because wow they may shoot back even if it is with a low effective use home made bow..

 

Oh wow you mean fresh spawns wont have to kill themselves in towns looking for food and basic gear when they might MIGHT be able to make a weapon that will allow them to hunt food and have a very limited level of protection at range from the ass hats sitting on the coast after plundering an airport then returning to murder as much as they can.

 

Basicly i think it will be a good change but who knows till we see how its implemented so maybe saving ya crying till then...

 

Edit i am guessing step 1 for fresh spawn might still be food or perhaps improvised spears which are also coming and one would imagine easier to make if less effective but still possible to hunt and kill food with or zeds or some bandit douche you catch with his pants down ...

 

As for the m4 i still find it kinda sad at how bad it is now ( not that i havee ever liked using it ) the couple times i tried it i was like wow this aint even close to the real rifle..

 

You must be new here, or have never seen my posts. I'm really not one for fresh spawn PvP (I consistently preach against not only PvP against fresh spawns, but even taking fully geared characters back to the coast), if anyone here is making an assumption it's you, and it really is an assumption considering the extremely aggressive post you're making towards me. I don't want to see acquiring a bow and arrows become priority #1 for fresh spawn players. I don't care if I occasionally see a player carrying a compound bow, but with how easy it is to find miscellaneous construction items and materials in the game it can't be that difficult to make this bow, and I don't want to see every player on the coast sprinting around with a T-Shirt, Jeans, Athletic Shoes, and a Bow, this isn't 1750's Louisiana. I'd much rather just see them make a craftable spear and improve melee weapons, because I don't want to see this become a Cowboys and Indians simulator along the entire coast.

 

I understand people want realism, but it seems like even the developers of this particular game sometimes don't take into account how game changes affect balance and the entire metagame.

Edited March 17, 2014 by dvsilverwing

[hotcakes 348]

"For whatever reason, Rocket wanted the M4 to be a CQC weapon. Otherwise, we would have the M16."

Its niche is tight quarters stock and gets some serious range with Magpul parts, but they don't affect the damage. It's in a fine spot.

[hotcakes 348]

Hell, someone even told me the MP M4 has the least dispersion in the game. Even so, it doesn't change how 5.56x45mm is weaker than the other cartridges.

[Daemonkid 493]

Regardless if he wanted the M4 as CQC weapon adding magpul parts doesn't affect accuracy in the slightest in real life, just how the weapon handles. If I aim an M4 at a target 200 meters away, it's going to hit where I was fucking aiming at, not fly off to the left, then the right and hit everything but what I was aiming at. It's called cone of fire, and it's absolutely bullshit.

Let's not even get started about the lack of damage the M4 does ingame at anything other than 100 meters. It was my favourite weapon in the mod, did some amazing things with it. Annoys me how shit it is in this game.

If it's for "balancing" issues.. I weep for the game, because it's no longer going to be the anti-game I want it to be. There should be no semblance of balance.

[hotcakes 348]

Different barrels and match-grade ammunition? *shrug*

There's not really a right way to do guns in a video game.

[leefriendfield 438]

Different barrels and match-grade ammunition? *shrug*

There's not really a right way to do guns in a video game.

[Accolyte 1727]

They say he survived the feedback tracker with nothing but an old bow string, a PVC pipe and sharpened sticks... But I don't believe it.

 

Don't believe everything they say .... .. . it was just the bowstring

[gerbilschooler 229]

You should stop watching so many action films. No arrow would allow you to climb concrete buildings. No arrow would hold the weight of a person.

This guy disagrees:

[Accolyte 1727]

This guy disagrees:

 

C'mon.. you don't actually believe that.

 

I mean, there's behind the scenes video in the description..

 

http://youtu.be/CpCxIL3r5dM?t=5m43s

[gerbilschooler 229]

C'mon.. you don't actually believe that.

 

I mean, there's behind the scenes video in the description..

 

http://youtu.be/CpCxIL3r5dM?t=5m43s

Haha haha! I figured there was some movie magic going on, just wanted to be contrary, really

Edit: The bit of wood he stuck it in looked awful flimsy

Edited March 17, 2014 by GafMast

[gibonez 3633]

I actually wouldn't mind arrows. If the crafting system allows us to put explosives and such on the arrows.

[-Gews- 7443]

It's in a fine spot.

It's not in a "fine spot".

There's not really a right way to do guns in a video game.

There's this thing called credibility. It's especially important in a game with DayZ's milsim heritage. Our sniper rifles shouldn't shoot tracers, the gravitational constant shouldn't be changed depending on the gun, and bolt-actions shouldn't be twice as powerful than semi-automatics using the same cartridge... and to that list of ridiculous things you can add many of the oft-heard complaints about the M4A1...

Even so, it doesn't change how 5.56x45mm is weaker than the other cartridges.

Weaker in what sense? Muzzle energy? So what? It is fully capable of producing more extensive wounds than 7.62x39mm M43 or M67 ball, or even the copper-jacketed 7.62x51mm M80 ball.

The M4 equates to a smg atm.

Arguably much, much worse...