Arma3 Third person fix mod...thoughts?

[Daemonkid 493]

-Snip-

No point in trying to argue rational and logical thoughts with him. 

He's got a hard on for 3PP and is unable to reach climax. He doesn't understand, and no amount of explaining will even make him consider his view is skewed. 

[Bororm 1156]

I think we are long past the stage where we as a community decides if it is a problem or not.

 

Everyone can agree to some extent that this is indeed a pressing issue and indeed negatively affects gameplay.

 

While not technically an exploit it is a crutch.

 

Now we need to talk on how to fix it and fix it in a way that does not completely remove 3pp.

 

No I don't agree, and neither did a lot of people on the first page.  Stop talking in absolutes.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

Stopped reading at "flawed" let me know if you wanna have a real discussion without your personal bias as well.

 

My personal opinion is that you're either a troll, or one of these kids that sits in airfields all day corner peeking and wall peeking. That 3PP is a flawed game mechanic is a fact.

 

I'm actually going to bed, so have fun defending your case. Crazier shit has happened, after all. Look at OJ.

[DemonGroover 8836]

I used to think 3rd person needed a fix but now that i play solely on Hardcore i just don't care anymore.

 

If players want to play with such obvious exploits in play then more power to them.

 

Having the option to go 3rd > 1st > 3rd in the menu options rather than a single button would make things more interesting though

[Daemonkid 493]

 -Look at OJ.-

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiet. Oj was innocent man, like totally innocent man!

[Bororm 1156]

No point in trying to argue rational and logical thoughts with him. 

He's got a hard on for 3PP and is unable to reach climax. He doesn't understand, and no amount of explaining will even make him consider his view is skewed. 

 

My view is very logical, you guys are the ones who approach the situation from a very limited perspective (pun intended).

Maybe it's all that playing first person only that has given you such tunnel vision. 

 

I implore you to take a moment to to realize that there is nothing inherently unfair about 3pp as everyone has access to the same tools.  That a player in ambush always has an advantage because he has chosen a position for that very purpose, to make use of what tools are available to him.

 

If you don't enjoy the resulting gameplay of a player using his tools better than you, then I am sincerely sorry.  But that is not relevant to me, as I and many others have learned to play with said tools.  So get your own other set of tools if you want, but leave mine alone because I am not out there trying to fuck with your shit.

[Bororm 1156]

My personal opinion is that you're either a troll, or one of these kids that sits in airfields all day corner peeking and wall peeking. That 3PP is a flawed game mechanic is a fact.

 

I'm actually going to bed, so have fun defending your case. Crazier shit has happened, after all. Look at OJ.

 

A fact according to who.  3PP is a very popular game mechanic across tons of games.  It's even the entire selling point of many games.

 

You guys are giving no facts, you are giving a ton of subjective bullshit excuses as to why you believe 3PP is flawed or an exploit or unfair, where I have refuted every one of them so far with actual logic.

 

You are too hung up because you've been on the receiving end too many times of some one who has simply made better use of the tools given to both him and you.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Bororm

[Daemonkid 493]

My view is very logical, you guys are the ones who approach the situation from a very limited perspective (pun intended).

Maybe it's all that playing first person only that has given you such tunnel vision. 

 

I implore you to take a moment to to realize that there is nothing inherently unfair about 3pp as everyone has access to the same tools.  That a player in ambush always has an advantage because he has chosen a position for that very purpose, to make use of what tools are available to him.

 

If you don't enjoy the resulting gameplay of a player using his tools better than you, then I am sincerely sorry.  But that is not relevant to me, as I and many others have learned to play with said tools.  So get your own other set of tools if you want, but leave mine alone because I am not out there trying to fuck with your shit.

Oh, because I have access to a exploit the same as you means it's fair because we can both use it? That's not how it works.. You shouldn't be using that to your "advantage". 3PP isn't a "tool" that's just idiocy. So you enjoy peeking over walls with 0 risk to yourself in PvP. I get it, you're a cheater, you like to abuse something like that for an edge over another person.

 

Cool. 

Edited May 17, 2014 by Daemonkid

[real meatshield 424]

why in the fuck has this not been merged with the countless other 1pp v. 3pp threads? 

 

Fucks sake man, you even tried to bring this same shit up over in BP mod forums, and the devs over there locked your shit down in a heartbeat because its already been beat to death. Play on hardcore servers and let it go already.

[gibonez 3633]

That video is stupid because it's taken from a single perspective. There's always another corner to peek around, there's always another angle to see the person back. The map is designed with this shit in mind.

That video is biased BULLSHIT.

You cannot possibly be suggesting that the developers intentionally designed the map so 3pp exploits would be facilitated

[Bororm 1156]

Should we recap on the reasons given as to why 3pp is unfair?

 

1) you can see over walls.  Both sides can, what's the issue.

2) you can't sneak up on anyone.  Not true, 3pp still has blind spots.

3) it fragments the community.  Not to any serious degree, the exact same thing could be flipped and said about 1PP servers.  Options are a good thing, not bad.  This community is huge, not to mention the majority of players play 3pp servers.

4) it's a crutch.  totally subjective.  regardless, everyone is playing with the same crutch, makes no actual difference gameplay wise.

5) it is gamebreaking.  completely false, no one's game has broken due to this.

6) it's equivalent to slavery/cancer.  simply untrue

7) it ruins the experience.  subjective.  my experience has been great.

8) ruins immersion.  also subjective.  immersion is a purely subjective sensation, it can be enhanced by certain gameplay aspects for sure, but everyone is different. 

9) it's cheating.  it's not cheating.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Bororm

[gibonez 3633]

why in the fuck has this not been merged with the countless other 1pp v. 3pp threads?

Fucks sake man, you even tried to bring this same shit up over in BP mod forums, and the devs over there locked your shit down in a heartbeat because its already been beat to death. Play on hardcore servers and let it go already.

Because this is not a thread discussing if it is a problem or not but instead ways the problem could be fixed.

A community brainstorm of ideas to fix the problem.

[Bororm 1156]

You cannot possibly be suggesting that the developers intentionally designed the map so 3pp exploits would be facilitated

 

The game is designed with 3PP from the outset.  Yes it is designed with 3PP in mind.

[Bororm 1156]

Because this is not a thread discussing if it is a problem or not but instead ways the problem could be fixed.

A community brainstorm of ideas to fix the problem.

Let's agree that the problem is some people don't like 3PP as currently implemented for personal reasons.

 

My idea is a third alternative server option so everyone can be happy.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Bororm

[gibonez 3633]

I used to think 3rd person needed a fix but now that i play solely on Hardcore i just don't care anymore.

 

If players want to play with such obvious exploits in play then more power to them.

 

Having the option to go 3rd > 1st > 3rd in the menu options rather than a single button would make things more interesting though

 

How do you feel about a script that disables 3pp when you go prone or crouch ? some server have this in dayz and It appears to solve most of the most harmful ways the crutch is used such as stationary camping of high traffic areas while being fully safe behind cover.

 

 

My idea is a third alternative server option so everyone can be happy.

 

Cool whats in this 3rd server option ?

 

What makes it different from the other two ?

[Bororm 1156]

How do you feel about a script that disables 3pp when you go prone or crouch ? some server have this in dayz and It appears to solve most of the most harmful ways the crutch is used such as stationary camping of high traffic areas while being fully safe behind cover.

 

 

 

Cool whats in this 3rd server option ?

 

What makes it different from the other two ?

 

Whatever the community decides is best.  If it's a tighter in camera for prone/crouch.  Or the thing you just suggested.  Or hiding players/objects that the player can not actually see, or whatever.

 

Doesn't matter to me as I'm perfectly happy with what I've got.  My issue is not with people not liking 3PP (except for the stupid ass reasoning people employ, I do take issue with that), my issue is with people trying to take it away from those who already enjoy it.  So I'd prefer if these threads all phrased their purpose as an alternative rather than a "fix" or "replacement."

Edited May 17, 2014 by Bororm

[MarchHare 184]

How do you feel about a script that disables 3pp when you go prone or crouch ? some server have this in dayz and It appears to solve most of the most harmful ways the crutch is used such as stationary camping of high traffic areas while being fully safe behind cover.

Cool whats in this 3rd server option ?

What makes it different from the other two ?

I think the crouch prone script it a great idea! The main reason I dislike 1pp is when I'm trucking long distance overland. I don't mind it at all when I'm stationary for rest, recon or aiming down field.

[Lady Kyrah 1110]

After all the bickering and complaining about 3pp players using the unrealistic camera option to gain an unfair advantage and peek over and around cover I have finally found the perfect solution that will keep both sides happy and requires very little work from the devs.

 

The solution is to make the option to switch between 3pp and 1pp a menu option.

 

Simply forcing people to go into their options menu and go through a few screens in order to switch their perspective would go a long way to stopping people from sitting on a rooftops just waiting for people while in complete safety.

Who said a compromise had to be reached? This is not a democracy.

[LigerRider 82]

Third person is not a problem. There are 2 different modes for a reason. As stated countless times, if you don't like the "exploit", play hardcore. I'm seeing posts as "the solution is to remove 3pp", well that's not even a solution by far. As you can see by looking through server lists, the majority of the people who play like playing in 3pp, if you don't, then don't do it, play hardcore - simple solution. 

 

Now, I don't understand why that "isn't a solution" when the people who complain about it are wanting it removed anyway (obviously playing hardcore will stop people exploiting you), however, with enough people posting and complaining about the current 3pp situation rises enough interests from the devs, they should do an "alternate 3pp" in a 3rd game mode - Regular, Hardcore and regular-hardcore. 

 

Not quoting anyone here because I really just skimmed the comments, but I feel that the people who have a problem with 3pp aren't really putting up a valid argument in with solutions such as removing it completely. It's been stated, just play hardcore. What people do on regular isn't really a concern to someone who plays hardcore. As somebody already stated - it isn't a concern to them really since they just stick to hardcore. 

 

I like 3pp, I like hardcore. I like seeing my player looking like a survivor, I like fair battles. I'm not biased towards 3pp, nor am I biased towards hardcore. There are two game modes for a reason, and as somebody stated before me, make the "3pp fix" a third mode. 

[Khanarac 252]

Just remove that feature alltogether. People will get used to it and they'll forget the 3rd pp ever existed.

3rd pp sometimes works for you and sometimes against you. Basicly if you have cover close to you, it works for you, if you do not, then it does work against you.

[gibonez 3633]

 

Not quoting anyone here because I really just skimmed the comments, but I feel that the people who have a problem with 3pp aren't really putting up a valid argument in with solutions such as removing it completely.

 

Yup thats why the thread is about coming to a compromise and for the community to come up with ideas to have both sides of the camp meet in the middle and not alienate either side.

 

This is the ideal solution because it would allow the community to not fragment and to essentially enjoy the same game and also because with out this problem persisting in 3pp mode they could turn hardcore mode into something truly different, not just dayz without 3pp like it is now.

 

The solution is not outright removing 3pp but trying to find a way to negate or stop the ability to see through buildings and to see over and around cover.

[AlphaDogMeat . 493]

Should we recap on the reasons given as to why 3pp is unfair?

 

1) you can see over walls.  Both sides can, what's the issue.

 

4) it's a crutch.  totally subjective.  regardless, everyone is playing with the same crutch, makes no actual difference gameplay wise.

 

9) it's cheating.  it's not cheating.

 

1.  Physics is the issue.  You stand next to a wall or corner of a building and your floating eyeball can see clear to the horizon, player Z 10m away from you can't get enough parallax separation between himself and his magic eyeball to see round your corner/over your wall.  Result = advantage to you, even though you both have the same ability. In 1PP, from the same positions, neither player would be able to see the other.  Which brings us to:

 

4.  There's nothing subjective about physics, mate.  See 1.

 

9.  It's not cheating.  However, magic eyeballs don't belong in a survival sim, they belong in Mario Kart and shooters-on-rails and suchlike.  Hence 3PP DayZ being known as DayZ Junior or DayZ Lite.  

 

I reckon the OP is being too generous - switching between 1P/3PP should involve menus, in-game web browsers and hard-to-decipher Captcha boxes.

[audax 207]

Just add a Line of sight sistem, and everyone will be happy.

[gibonez 3633]

Just add a Line of sight sistem, and everyone will be happy.

 

That would be absolutely perfect however Rocket has said he does not like that idea due to people popping in and out of existence.

 

That could be fixed by changing the cameras position + incorporating the line of sight system.

[Bororm 1156]

1.  Physics is the issue.  You stand next to a wall or corner of a building and your floating eyeball can see clear to the horizon, player Z 10m away from you can't get enough parallax separation between himself and his magic eyeball to see round your corner/over your wall.  Result = advantage to you, even though you both have the same ability. In 1PP, from the same positions, neither player would be able to see the other.  Which brings us to:

 

4.  There's nothing subjective about physics, mate.  See 1.

 

9.  It's not cheating.  However, magic eyeballs don't belong in a survival sim, they belong in Mario Kart and shooters-on-rails and suchlike.  Hence 3PP DayZ being known as DayZ Junior or DayZ Lite.  

 

I reckon the OP is being too generous - switching between 1P/3PP should involve menus, in-game web browsers and hard-to-decipher Captcha boxes.

 

Physics is not an issue here, both players are operating under the same rules.

 

Right, in 1PP neither player would see each other.  The result is a different type of gameplay.  Does that mean it's inherently bad?  No.  It's just different.  If you don't prefer it that's fine.  If some people do, that is also fine, that is why there is an option.

 

Each has pros and cons.

I play a bit of arma 3, I like to play king of the hill mode.  I prefer to play hardcore because my preferred style of gameplay is long range sniping.  The reason I choose hardcore, is because I can sit very far back in cover and know that every single person on a roof top in the city is going to be exposed because they are forced to crouch/stand to see anything.  That is one of the pros for playing on first person for that given scenario for me, it is a con for those on the roofs.  In this case I am using first person as a "crutch."  I am taking advantage of the knowledge I have of how enemy players will act due to the first person perspective of that chosen game mode.  If I play 3PP I adjust my playstyle accordingly.

 

What is a crutch?  A tool.  The negative connotations are what I am calling subjective.  If everyone is using that same crutch (tool) it has no real impact on gameplay in a negative manner.  Some people use it better than others.  Some people use some weapons better than others too.  Should those weapons be changed/removed just because one player is better with it than another, when there is nothing inherently wrong with the weapon itself?

 

DayZ is not an even playing field, every encounter is not meant to be a fair fight.  But everyone should have access to the same tools/weapons/equipment/whatever.  And they do.

 

If third person cameras don't belong in DayZ, why has 3PP mode existed since the launch of the mod and into the SA?

It is only known as DayZ Junior or DayZ Lite to those who care about their e-peen.

 

There's already a way to switch between 1PP and 3PP, it's on the server browser.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Bororm