.22lr Damage is absurd.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I use to be a survivor, then I took a .22 to the knee.

Damn you

[Whyherro123 2283]

It needs to be ineffective for for ballistics. Its not very practical for zombie slaying or ppl if you have to chamber every round you fire. If the mags become hard to get its going to be one of those items your going to pass up regardless. Firing the damn gun currently will attract every zombie in. radius to you almost as much. And if your telling me you can kill everyone and zombies while chambering the thing until you find cartidges all the more power to you i guess.

 

Also no if you keep on the move you really never have to run into anyone period unless your hitting coastal towns all the time.

You do realize you have to chamber every round on a manual-action firearm, right? Like the mosin, or the shotgun. You have to manually work the action (or, in the case of the shotgun, actually break it open to feed in shells.) in order to chamber another round. I am fully expecting the Mosin to eventually require stripper clips in order to fit 5 rounds. Having to insert one round by hand does not actually take all that long, especially with a bolt-action firearm (speaking of those, I kinda-sorta wanted a bolt-action .22...) It is just the clunky User Interface of Day Z that makes it suck. 

In real life, I can hold several .22LR cartridges in my left palm, and manually insert them into the chamber as I work the bolt with my right hand. Not that difficult, and it takes less than a second.

[Whyherro123 2283]

How about no, small caliber weapons don't kill you even without help of modern hospitals. If I shoot you with 0.22 to LESS VITAL part as you said it won't kill you, yes it will bleed but not kill.

0.22 doesn't do massive shock damage to musles like large faster-than-sound rounds do. Yes there will be a hole in your skin, yes it may pierce some parts inside you, but it will not still do much damage to surrounding tissue, and it will stay inside you without surgery.

You will most likely get an infection, either from clothing particles from the entry wound, or a blood infection in general. Either way, enjoy a long and painful death, as oral antibiotics can only do so much.....

[Deathlove 2286]

You do realize you have to chamber every round on a manual-action firearm, right? Like the mosin, or the shotgun. You have to manually work the action (or, in the case of the shotgun, actually break it open to feed in shells.) in order to chamber another round. I am fully expecting the Mosin to eventually require stripper clips in order to fit 5 rounds. Having to insert one round by hand does not actually take all that long, especially with a bolt-action firearm (speaking of those, I kinda-sorta wanted a bolt-action .22...) It is just the clunky User Interface of Day Z that makes it suck. 

In real life, I can hold several .22LR cartridges in my left palm, and manually insert them into the chamber as I work the bolt with my right hand. Not that difficult, and it takes less than a second.

Yeah ill change my mind on the fighting and gun play once they iron out the clunky shit but for right now the guns kind of a death sentence lol.

[GrappleX 354]

Yeah ill change my mind on the fighting and gun play once they iron out the clunky shit but for right now the guns kind of a death sentence lol.

 

Unless you can sneak up on people, then its the best gun in the game.

 

Otherwise, yeah, its pretty meh.

[SpiRiTuS T16 10]

I like this gun, but i like the blaze and long barrel shotty too. Its different and opinions will differ from person to person. Who cares, as long as your having fun IMO.

Edited March 10, 2014 by SpiRiTuS T16

[mosibfu 71]

i dont get this topic.. i heard none of you guys about getting shot and not ending up bleeding..

[Demoth 366]

I like this gun, but i like the blaze and long barrel shotty too. Its different and opinions will differ from person to person. Who cares, as long as your having fun IMO.

Unless they changed the shotty recently, the gun is garbage. I've been hit a LOT of times with the shotty, some as close as 2 meters, and not once have I died. I was wounded and one time it broke my arm, but it never stopped me from killing them with any other weapon, ranging from my fists to an M4 and everything inbetween.

I snuck up on a guy looting my friend and planted 2 shells right into his back. He got up and ran away while trying to pull his gun while I reloaded. That was the last time I carried that thing.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Demoth

[badpr1m3r 49]

"I think the muzzle velocity is all wrong as people are reporting that the .22lr rounds are tracers"

 

 

Nope it's fine. For the rifle, at least. The problem is that they included the following line of code:

 

 

 

 

 

You can probably guess what that does...

 

 

 

 

 

Tracers should occur if you chamber a single round. Loading full magazines should produce no tracers.

Tracer rounds are specific rounds... so if you load a magazine full of tracer rounds it will fire a tracer every round.  In the military we loaded every 3rd or 4th round with a tracer in our magazines.  Machine guns was every 5th in the belt.  With regular rounds in between.  They weren't .22 but the same principle still applies.  

[thedogfoodyayho 295]

While some people do survive headshots, they didn't keep walking around immediately after (the German guy was a fluke, probably shot from far away or some shit, but it's a 1/10,000 chance for him not to notice) and it's not like they can just keep emptying they're M4 at you, pick up your shit, and run away to get salined.

 

What happened to Arma? Every gun, even the puny makarov, which took near 16 shots to kill, was an instant headshot. Same for every weapon. That needs to be returned. Whats the point of the gun if it doesn't 1-headshot even zeds? Its probably even more shots to take down a player.

We have to say, useless gun, or marginally useful gun?  

It should be one headshot, always, unless fired from over 100m. Otherwise, its pretty much an airgun.

[enforcer1975 1111]

How about no, small caliber weapons don't kill you even without help of modern hospitals. If I shoot you with 0.22 to LESS VITAL part as you said it won't kill you, yes it will bleed but not kill.

0.22 doesn't do massive shock damage to musles like large faster-than-sound rounds do. Yes there will be a hole in your skin, yes it may pierce some parts inside you, but it will not still do much damage to surrounding tissue, and it will stay inside you without surgery.

 

They have been cases where people commited suicide with a .22 in one case it was even the smallest caliber a gun owner had. He had much bigger calibers to choose from. And Germany even prohibited the posession of .22 without a license when the RAF used them for crimes...like that stopped them shooting other people with other guns.

While a .22 has the potential to kill you or at least inflict a deadly wound some people here are acting like they wouldn't bother getting shot at because it's so weak. So how about they let themselves get shot at ( again ) nobody calls for help and they have to treat the wound with what they have at hand ( pieces of cloth or a band aid because "a .22 is so puny and only makes a small hole" ) and try to survive for a couple of days. With our medical system you can even have your head splattered on the ceiling and they can still make you survive.

[alldaypk 63]

Hello there

 

I think there is alot of calibre snobbery but can one compare the effects of a 22 (or any round) on an Infected to the effect on a normal human?

 

Regardless, I consider the 22 a lethal round, if not a traditional "stopping" round.

 

If I get punched in the nose, or even step on a plug/lego that incapacitates me for a time. I think Bullet damage/shock should reflect that.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

 

Can we have IED's with legos in them? sound traps with legos?

[ZMV 23]

Hey guys, I have a LOT of experience hunting (and other extra-curricular activities) with a 22lr, both pistols and rifles.

 

A 22lr will kill a human with one round. It happens all the time. There are numerous incidents where a person was shot with a single 22lr round and did not survive. In North Carolina, a police officer was shot with a 22. A single round bypassed his vest in an area he was unprotected, entered his left arm pit, stopped in his heart. The wound did not bleed, and when other officers arrived they originally thought he died of a heart attack or stroke until the autopsy proved otherwise.

 

I have personally shot many small game with a 22lr while hunting, and I have used 22lr to put down larger game. The largest animal I've had to put down with a 22lr was a cow. A single shot to her head, and she was in a better place. I have also had to put down deer and a large dog with a 22lr, every time with a well placed brain shot, every time the animal expired in less than 5 seconds, and every time with a single round. I did all of these with a 22 pistol or revolver. A rifle is going to have more velocity, more power, and more lethal impact.

 

As a police officer, I have also seen people shot with a 22lr. For this example, take the case of a juvenile accidentally shot by his brother with a stolen 22 pistol. The victim was struck in the back of the head close to the right ear from around 50 feet away. He immediately fell unconscious and did not wake up, and was removed from life support after he was declared brain dead at the hospital. A 22lr round has more than enough energy to penetrate the skull of a human, and therefore more than enough to do the same to an undead/zombified person, as well.

 

As a side note, I have official reports of people being shot 4-12 times with a standard handgun caliber from 38 special all the way up to 45 acp. A 22lr is capable of lethal terminal ballistics, but often is not. A 45acp is more lethal, but still not the best.

 

I hope to see more realistic ballistics from this game, and am happy to answer questions.

Edited March 10, 2014 by ZMV

[ZMV 23]

How about no, small caliber weapons don't kill you even without help of modern hospitals. If I shoot you with 0.22 to LESS VITAL part as you said it won't kill you, yes it will bleed but not kill.

0.22 doesn't do massive shock damage to musles like large faster-than-sound rounds do. Yes there will be a hole in your skin, yes it may pierce some parts inside you, but it will not still do much damage to surrounding tissue, and it will stay inside you without surgery.

 

 

A 22lr does not have to do "shock damage" (otherwise known as hydrostatic shock) to surrounding muscle to kill. Hydrostatic shock is the ability of a penetrating projectile to cause waves in tissue to ripple through vital organs. For example, if you are shot in the stomach, the theory* states the ripples in water-based flesh and tissue can transfer to the heart and stop it. (*I say theory, because it has not been proven that hydrostatic shock has measurable lethal ability.) Ultimately, you can not count on hydrostatic shock to cause death.

 

The only thing required to stop the body from moving is the loss of blood or loss of nerves in specific areas. Blood loss alone is often not enough to kill someone, and there have been several instances of a person being shot over a dozen times and surviving because the blood loss was not severe enough. However, blood loss can also happen with the smallest penetration in a vital organ or blood vessel. Taking a 22lr in the femoral artery in  your leg, for example, will result in your death in seconds. A person can also die from internal bleeding. For example, a person could be shot in the chest, and the blood fills various cavities and areas between the organs and the muscle. This lack of blood in the cardiovascular system has the same effect whether the blood is bleeding internally or externally. In fact, an internal injury will be more deadly than an external injury because you can't easily stop the blood loss.

 

Finally, leaving a projectile in your body is very dangerous. The projectile does not remain in one area. A bullet left in your chest, for example, could migrate over time to your heart or lungs, causing death. A bullet left in your leg could migrate to the femoral artery, causing death. It may take a day for migration, or it may take several years. In a zombie-apocalypse world without access to surgical services, a bullet left in your body may eventually kill you.

 

Of course, this doesn't count infection, as another poster already stated...

[rickenbacker 190]

Hydrostatic shock and "stopping power" are probably the most overused and overestimated wound factors. Hydrostatic shock looks very nasty in a block of gelatin, but that's because a block of gelatin isn't a human body, and doesn't have bones and sinews holding it together. And "stopping power" is just a bullshit buzzword used by manufacturers of large caliber ammunition. No handgun bullet will knock a person down, if it did, you'd fall over when firing it in the first place! The shooter received the exact same amount of kinetic energy as the target, although spread over a larger area so that it doesn't hurt or kill you. But that would still mean that if you fired a round large enough to knock someone down, the recoil would knock YOU down when you pulled the trigger.

 

A .22 can kill. It's less likely to than a 9mm or a .357 Magnum, but all are pretty bad at outright killing, or even stopping people. There aren't really any handguns that can reliably stop a bad guy, which is why you don't fight wars with them - if you really want to hurt someone, you use a rifle or a shotgun. If you want a gun you can hide, and carry with you without too much trouble, you use a pistol or revolver. Their only reason for being is portability, not lethality.

 

So, to make an argument about the .22LR. It should kill zombies in one headshot (and does, apparently). Maybe two headshots for players, just for game balance. 

[PhillyT 554]

Jesus people, lets break this down:

 

1.  .22 are about the weakest round there is.

2.  People die from .22 wounds.

3.  We are referring to a game where a .308 round doesn't kill with one shot to center mass.

4.  Multiple 5.56 rounds are required to get a kill.

5. Complaining about the effectiveness of a garbage round in a game where actual sniper and military rounds don't get a one hit kill on a healthy human is the part of this whole thing that is absurd.

[OrLoK 16185]

Hello there

 

I dont think its fair to label the .22 lr or otherwise a garbage round, but I do agree that the damage of ballistic weapons feels off. (realistic or not)

 

I do feel for the devs as its so tricky to get it right in a game. Regardless of balance. We do oft get confused between reality and common  misconception.

 

Im somewhat torn. especially as we are all supposed to be average Joes in game, so our gun handling skills would be poor.

 

I do like to think of encounters resembling the "gunfight" scene from "Taxi Driver" which is horribly messy and not at all Hollywood.

 

You tube it, let me know what you think. (its in black and white as the censors at the time thought it too bloody. 18+ and Viewer Discrection advised).

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[korpisoturi (DayZ) 127]

We are getting to some serious discussion here and I love it :) (Though the idea that we are having this kind of discussion over a game in sort of ridiculous)

 

So

 

Hydrostatic shock looks very nasty in a block of gelatin, but that's because a block of gelatin isn't a human body, and doesn't have bones and sinews holding it together.

 

Well it looks nasty in tissue too. 7.62 makes entrancehole size of little finger, but behind the skin you could fit your fist in there, also the hole it makes when it leaves the body is sick, really sick.

 

But we are talking about game which we run around with food cans in our pockets (possible helmets in our pants,vests and jackets) which hit with anything else than full-size rifle round will propably stop incoming bullets, especially when talking about 0.22lr.

 

So conclusion:

-0.22lr is weakest round ever, slighly better than airgun and is used to hunt PESTS and small animals.

-People will and have died from 0.22lr

-This is a game, and should not be expected to be irl-realistic because in gameplay view that would suck

-And as a game I think it should take many,many shots to kill a player with 0.22 (Because of gear we are wearing)

[SpiRiTuS T16 10]

I dont think it needs tweaking atm, but I havent used it on humans in-game yet, when I do i'll make a judgement. So far SO good.

[-Gews- 7443]

In North Carolina, a police officer was shot with a 22. A single round bypassed his vest in an area he was unprotected, entered his left arm pit, stopped in his heart. The wound did not bleed, and when other officers arrived they originally thought he died of a heart attack or stroke until the autopsy proved otherwise.

 

Sounds like Mark Coates.

 

Some of you might find the story interesting. Note the bolded parts.

 

 

"Corporal Mark Coates was shot and killed after stopping a car for weaving in traffic on I-95 near the Georgia border.

 

During the traffic stop the suspect began to struggle with Corporal Coates and they both fell to the ground. The suspect fired a .22 caliber handgun into Corporal Coates' chest, but the round was stopped by his vest.

Corporal Coates was able to force the man off of him and return fire, striking the suspect five times in the chest with his .357 caliber revolver. As he retreated for cover and to radio for backup, the suspect fired another shot. The round struck Trooper Coates in the left armpit and traveled into his heart.

 

The suspect survived the incident and was sentenced to life in prison."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Placement > caliber.

 

Ideally it would be the same in the game.

[ZMV 23]

Jesus people, lets break this down:

 

1.  .22 are about the weakest round there is.

2.  People die from .22 wounds.

3.  We are referring to a game where a .308 round doesn't kill with one shot to center mass.

4.  Multiple 5.56 rounds are required to get a kill.

5. Complaining about the effectiveness of a garbage round in a game where actual sniper and military rounds don't get a one hit kill on a healthy human is the part of this whole thing that is absurd.

 

Agreed. The problem isn't just about 22lr, it's about the entire damage system. Do we want realism, or do we want balance?

 

I personally prefer realism, but I don't think the game can handle the calculations required for realistic terminal ballistics. To do so, a player's head can't just be one entity or hit location, it would have to be three (or more).

 

Perhaps the best solution would be a RNG for effects. For example, a 22lr head shot could be 70% chance of one-shot death, 15% chance of knockout with massive bleeding, 5% chance of knockout with no bleeding, 5% chance of just bleeding, and a 5% chance of no effect (like if you got shot in the ear or something). A 5.56 NATO would have much higher chance of death and a much lower chance of knockout with no bleeding.

 

I know this is wishful thinking, but like I said, without a very complex hit-location system, there really isn't a way to make the game realistic in the first place.

[Estyles 14]

It's not realism that we want but authenticity and authentically speaking more people die from a .22lr to the head than do not so it should be like that for targets under 150 meters.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Estyles

[rickenbacker 190]

I was under the impression that the in-game .22LR DOES kill with a headshot, at least zombies? That's as much authenticity as we need, really. Now we just need to lose the "cone of fire" so we can hit anything beyond 10m :). 

[strongtent 74]

Damage output should differ in regards to real players and zombies. The 22. sucks right now in both aspects.

 

Zombies should take one shot to the head to die in any situation. You are playing the game to survive from them and eradicate them.

 

Players are your other means of survival, they have the ability to think and equip themselves like yourself; so they should have varying degrees of damage absorption, in my opinion.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Strongtent

[blissfulkunt 196]

Well I can confirm I shot a guy 8+ times center mass with the .22, It didnt drop him.. I will be avoiding this rifle like the flu from now on