.22lr Damage is absurd.

[Whyherro123 2283]

Come to Maine son!  We don't have those Massachusetts laws!

 

I would generally prefer to have the caliber capable of killing with a body shot rather than needing to try for the head.

Ha, to be honest, I was thinking about moving up there once I finish my degree. Need to make some money first, to afford some new toys.

[blissfulkunt 196]

Really OP, a post on Reddit too =P Anyways I found it pretty weak however the headshots I made with it always killed in 1 hit... I also think there needs to be a weaker rifle in the game anyways, if every gun was OP you will never struggle against the zombies... BTW OMG I love the zombies in experimental, they are everywhere!

Edited March 8, 2014 by Blissful

[Deathlove 2286]

I think what's even more ridiculous, is that you're knocking people down who are wearing ballistic helmets completely capable of defeating large numbers of HV .22 lr rounds...  Now consider that the Amphiban drops the speed of those HV supersonic rounds to well under the speed of sound and it gets even more absurd...

 

Now Maybe you actually hit the dude in the face, or the back of the neck, or the helmet was not "pristine"...  But a .22lr fired from either a 10/22 or the mkII Amphiban should be completely unable to penetrate the composite ballistic helmets seen in game.  The amount of energy transfer from the .22lr round to a persons head through the helmet would also not be enough to cause any form of serious "Concussive" injury as well...

 

Now if you hit someone in the head, and not the helmet, their brain should be turned to jello resulting in an obvious kill.

I think overall armor system for ballistics needs more tweaking and working on. And they really need to test the gun damage out more before just placing whatever in. I expect the next high caliber military weapon they come out with possibly the AK or whatever to be lower damage than what it actually can do in real life. Thats going to cause some rage when some one with a .22 takes down some one with an AK lol.

[Whyherro123 2283]

I think overall armor system for ballistics needs more tweaking and working on. And they really need to test the gun damage out more before just placing whatever in. I expect the next high caliber military weapon they come out with possibly the AK or whatever to be lower damage than what it actually can do in real life. Thats going to cause some rage when some one with a .22 takes down some one with an AK lol.

That ( .22LR user taking out an AK armed player) is definitely possible. Not likely going head-to-head, but if the .22LR were to sneak up behind the other guy, and put a bullet in his dome, guess what? Free AK! Plus, the guy with the .22LR can carry SO MUCH MORE ammunition than the AK guy.

 

[taco86 156]

I think overall armor system for ballistics needs more tweaking and working on. And they really need to test the gun damage out more before just placing whatever in.

No doubt, can't agree with this more...

 

Btw, the ballistic helmet we have in game is a NIJ lvl IIIa helmet...  This means that it's capable of defeating up to .44 magnum rounds, Super sonic .22lr rounds are considered a NIJ lvl1 threat.  Hell, the .357 magnum is rated as a nij lvl II threat.

Edited March 8, 2014 by taco86

[Deathlove 2286]

That ( .22LR user taking out an AK armed player) is definitely possible. Not likely going head-to-head, but if the .22LR were to sneak up behind the other guy, and put a bullet in his dome, guess what? Free AK! Plus, the guy with the .22LR can carry SO MUCH MORE ammunition than the AK guy.

 

But if there wearing ballistics helms a head shot should not penetrate like was said earlier unless it was directly on the open face portion and the player was wearing no heavy mask protection. It would take fare more skill than the .22 alone than one head shot. Without a helm i could see it but with full ballistic gear the only portions vulnerable should be anything exposed besides those armored portions.

 

This is ALSO where different caliber types come into play. Certain military grade rounds beyond .22 should be able to effectively penetrate armor easier. Lumping EVERY single ammo type into one damage category is a BAD idea and kind of lazy on there part if you think about it. Yes i understand its more resource time invested that could be put to other things but if you want your game to be REALISTIC in terms of guns than caliber STILL plays a huge roll in combat as well as armor and ballistic types.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Deathlove

[Estyles 14]

Really OP, a post on Reddit too =P Anyways I found it pretty weak however the headshots I made with it always killed in 1 hit... I also think there needs to be a weaker rifle in the game anyways, if every gun was OP you will never struggle against the zombies... BTW OMG I love the zombies in experimental, they are everywhere!

Yup reddit as well because Dean seem to like reddit a lot more.

[Old_Crow_Whiskey 119]

One .22 headshot should kill every zombie and and player unless the player is wearing a ballistic helmet:

 

[finnpalm 312]

"You might not die today, but you will die sometime during the next week."

Just because something penetrates your body doesn't mean it instantly kills you. And there are other factors like what the bullet does once inside your body. Does it tumble or just go straight through? (the Mauser rifle does this, unless the bullet hits a rib or other bone)

The damage by the .22 guns seem about right to me. But to be honest it needs more testing in game to have a solid foundation to base statistics off of. Say, a thousand fired rounds or so with each gun should suffice. Shooting a couple of rounds doesn't give enough data to base anything on.

Edited March 8, 2014 by Strawman

[hells high 676]

One thing I've seen which I don't like is that some players are reporting the .22 is a "knock-out gun". Shoot someone in the head and they are simply knocked out for a short time.

 

Well the video you posted the players were wearing helmets, so that's something to consider.

 

 

People posting videos of .22 or claiming it should be a deadly weapon need to actually own one and shoot living things with it.  

 

I have dumped 6 .22 thunderbolts into a woodchuck only to have it still waddle its ass around.  I felt fucking terrible and never used my .22 for anything but cans again.

 

.22, even higher charge rounds, are so pathetically weak that they can be surpassed by some air compression pellet guns in terms of efficiency.  They are very fun.  I would rather stab someone with a spear than try to shoot them to death with one.  9mm are notoriously bad as single or double shot weapons, why would you assume a .22 would be anything but an extremely weak weapon?

 

Is this a European thing?  No disrespect at all, but is this a situation where unfamiliarity leads to the assumption that all guns should be lethal as head wounds?

 

With respect it sounds to me like you're a pretty bad shot, or are simply unfamiliar (irony) with how to properly utilize the weapon. With something even like a .17HMR you might be able to shoot a woodchuck in the guts and kill it more quickly, but that's only because it blows the damned thing apart. Its a low velocity round, meaning you have to hit something vital like the brain, and yes the .22LR does have that kind of muzzle velocity.

[Hutch (DayZ) 116]

Do people really think that a 22LR round to center mass should drop a person dead in their tracks?

There is a difference between "Lethality" and "Stopping power". This game is mostly about stopping power.

 

Granted a 22LR can be deadly, but usually not instantly to anything bigger than a rabbit.

Depending of course on where you are hit, the mass and standard velocity of a 22LR does not cause significant penetration.

The entry wound is small and there is little to no permanent stretch cavity.

These factors mean that it cannot cause the rapid drop in blood pressure needed to drop a person instantly.

You would be bleeding, yes. In shock, yes. Probably die without immediate medical treatment, yes.

But it will take some time to lose consciousness and you could effectively fight back for at least a few minutes.

 

Now consider how the game models damage.
The game doesn't model vital organ hits, it only models Shock and Blood loss.

So, unless it's a headshot, it's essentially a muscle tissue hit.

 

Since Zeds don't bleed out, to drop them you need to do enough shock damage.

Players generally don't bleed out either, they bandage.

 

So yeah, a 22 isn't going to do much unless it's a headshot.
2, 3, 5 hits, yeah probably, but not a single hit to muscle tissue.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Hutch

[SFRGaming 718]

Hello there

 

I think there is alot of calibre snobbery but can one compare the effects of a 22 (or any round) on an Infected to the effect on a normal human?

 

Regardless, I consider the 22 a lethal round, if not a traditional "stopping" round.

 

If I get punched in the nose, or even step on a plug/lego that incapacitates me for a time. I think Bullet damage/shock should reflect that.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

The Infected have the same "tolerance" to wounds as a regular human in DayZ. IF they were generic undead zombies, then yea, I'd agree. But, we have normal humans that have a neuro-disease. Nothing makes them stronger or more tolerant to bodily harm, though they may have a higher PAIN tolerance. 

 

 

Anyone who has actually fired a .22 caliber rifle, myself included, knows it has very little stopping power.

Good for squirrels, birds, and soda cans. That's about it.

 

It's not the stopping power that gives the .22lr its reputation, its the fact that it has JUST enough power to penetrate say, the skull at close ranges. Although, it does NOT have the power to exit. So, what does it do? Imagine someone playing pinball and the game board is your brain cavity...

Edited March 9, 2014 by Shadow134

[sacrdandprofne 100]

Anyone who has actually fired a .22 caliber rifle, myself included, knows it has very little stopping power.

Good for squirrels, birds, and soda cans. That's about it.

[OrLoK 16185]

The Infected have the same "tolerance" to wounds as a regular human in DayZ. IF they were generic undead zombies, then yea, I'd agree. But, we have normal humans that have a neuro-disease. Nothing makes them stronger or more tolerant to bodily harm, though they may have a higher PAIN tolerance. 

 

 

 

It's not the stopping power that gives the .22lr its reputation, its the fact that it has JUST enough power to penetrate say, the skull at close ranges. Although, it does NOT have the power to exit. So, what does it do? Imagine someone playing pinball and the game board is your brain cavity...

Hello there

 

Yes, pain and shock were what I was referring to. Also fear. Ie no fear of what can happen if one is wounded.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[Hutch (DayZ) 116]

People posting videos of .22 or claiming it should be a deadly weapon need to actually own one and shoot living things with it.  

 

I have dumped 6 .22 thunderbolts into a woodchuck only to have it still waddle its ass around.  I felt fucking terrible and never used my .22 for anything but cans again.

 

.22, even higher charge rounds, are so pathetically weak that they can be surpassed by some air compression pellet guns in terms of efficiency.  They are very fun.  I would rather stab someone with a spear than try to shoot them to death with one.  9mm are notoriously bad as single or double shot weapons, why would you assume a .22 would be anything but an extremely weak weapon?

 

Is this a European thing?  No disrespect at all, but is this a situation where unfamiliarity leads to the assumption that all guns should be lethal as head wounds?

I shoot gophers around my house with my 10/22. (standard velocity LRN)

On multiple occasions I've had to hit them twice since they were still crawling after the first shot.

Granted my first shot "missed" my intended placement and hit them in the hind quarter or center abdomen,

but if a little gopher can keep crawling after being hit, I think a person has plenty of time to bandage.

 

I think the damage is realistic as is. People should understand that the game doesn't model hits to vital organs.

Assume all hits to the body are simple wounds with a shock value and bleed rate corresponding with the gun caliber.

 

Even a head shot with a 22 can glance off if it hits at a shallow angle. If it does penetrate the skull, it might not penetrate very deep if it was fired from more than 25 yards away.

So multiple head shots to drop someone (or SomeZed) is not unrealistic.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Hutch

[Deathlove 2286]

I shoot gophers around my house with my 10/22. (standard velocity LRN)

On multiple occasions I've had to hit them twice since they were still crawling after the first shot.

Granted my first shot "missed" my intended placement and hit them in the hind quarter or center abdomen,

but if a little gopher can keep crawling after being hit, I think a person has plenty of time to bandage.

 

I think the damage is realistic as is. People should understand that the game doesn't model hits to vital organs.

Assume all hits to the body are simple wounds with a shock value and bleed rate corresponding with the gun caliber.

 

Even a head shot with a 22 can glance off if it hits at a shallow angle. If it does penetrate the skull, it might not penetrate very deep if it was fired from more than 25 yards away.

So multiple head shots to drop someone (or SomeZed) is not unrealistic.

The point of this thread is no ones going to even consider using the damn gun without a clip period so ppl are going to skip it. I know i am currently at the moment. It just is not an effective enough weapon at long range. And is not logical for this games play quite yet. Now i definitely see this as a starting weapon for most players but anyones whos trying it now and if the damage stays the same is just going to skip over it UNLESS zombies start doing allot more and you absolutely must as a death wish use this crap gun.

 

If ppl fix it and make it better than yeah more ppl might consider it. But even if ppl are forced to use this weapon im pretty sure they are going to prefer hand to hand combat over the weapon until they find a better gun. My machete or fist is a better go to weapon than the .22 atm.

 

Im honestly at this point not going to put faith in bows or throwing weapons ether. And if this riffle is a glimpse at future crafting weapons power im just going to skip crafting weapons all together.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Deathlove

[kataro 59]

A fully suppressed 0.22 caliber semi auto sniper rifle with a 10 rounds rotary magazine.

In 1987, the Intifada – the Palestinian uprising against the Israeli regime in the Occupied Territories – broke out, and involved mass violent clashes between Israeli security forces and Palestinians protestors. As a result, the Israeli security forces needed a weapon with a more potent firepower then the standard riot control metal covered rubber round, but at the same time less lethal then the standard issue 5.56 mm round of the M16/Galil assault rifles. So the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) searched for a 0.22 caliber accurate rifle that will be used to take out the key protest leaders by shooting them in the legs.

The Ruger 10/22, fitted with a X4 day optic, a full length suppressor and a Harris bipod was selected for this role and was due to be issued to all infantry oriented units, including both special and conventional forces. However, as often happens in the shoestring budget IDF, financial problems prevented the weapon’s mass distribution, and it was mainly issued to Special Forces (SF) units. Moreover, instead of using the rifle as a riot control weapon, as originally intended, the Israeli SF deployed the Ruger 10/22 more as a “Hush Puppy” weapon used to silently and effectively eliminate disturbing dogs prior to operations.

In the recent Israeli-Palestinian clashes began in 2000, the Ruger resumes it’s original role as a less lethal riot control weapon. However, it’s usage in this role was rather controversial this time. After several incidents involving the death of Palestinians by the Ruger fire, the IDF conducted a field experiment in the Ruger at the IDF Sniper School in Mitkan Adam under the supervision of the IDF Judge Advocate General (JAG). The test showed that the Ruger was more lethal then thought especially in upper body injuries. Also, since it’s suppressed and was considered less lethal by the troops, the soldiers were much more likely to use the Ruger loosely then intended.

As a result of this test, the JAG reclassified the Ruger as a lethal weapon. As a lethal weapon, the usage of the Ruger in riot control is much more limited today. In the IDF Center Command it was completely prohibited to use and the IDF South Command it’s deployment was cut down dramatically.

 

[discipled 63]

People posting videos of .22 or claiming it should be a deadly weapon need to actually own one and shoot living things with it.  

 

I have dumped 6 .22 thunderbolts into a woodchuck only to have it still waddle its ass around.  I felt fucking terrible and never used my .22 for anything but cans again.

 

.22, even higher charge rounds, are so pathetically weak that they can be surpassed by some air compression pellet guns in terms of efficiency.  They are very fun.  I would rather stab someone with a spear than try to shoot them to death with one.  9mm are notoriously bad as single or double shot weapons, why would you assume a .22 would be anything but an extremely weak weapon?

 

Is this a European thing?  No disrespect at all, but is this a situation where unfamiliarity leads to the assumption that all guns should be lethal as head wounds?

As someone who does have guns, a .22lr is a fine round to use on a person. In fact stats wise the .22lr kills more people every year than any other ammo, but mainly due to stupid people being stupid. If you can't kill a woodchuck with a .22 that's pretty bad. I'm not even sure what you're talking about with 9mm. 9mm are actually used by the U.S. military in the handguns. It was the .45 but not any longer. What people seem to be leaving out of this discussion is actually how the round expands once it hits it's target. .22lr will go straight through the target not applying much ft/lbs. Today ammo is jacketed hollow pointed because the ammo will smoosh or expand upon impact, knocking back and increasing the amount of damage done to the intended target. You can get .22lr jhp but i'm not sure how effective it is in comparison to just jacketed round nose or even lead round nose. In killing an infected zombie, who knows what kind of ability they have to withstand damage. On a normal person, a .22lr will kill them easily with a headshot at anything under 50yards. Hell up to 100 yards would, and it is the rare strange case when someone finds they still have a .22 lodged in their head.

[dvsilverwing 241]

 

They're wearing ballistic helmets, going by a IIIA standard they should be fine, they shouldn't even be knocked out.

 

Hopefully when they properly implement ballistic vests and make some changes to the helmet it will reflect this.

Edited March 9, 2014 by dvsilverwing

[gomeowmeow 45]

With a standard 40 grain bullet you get 1,080 ft/s (330 m/s) 104 ft·lbf (141 J)

 

This kind of force should knock you on your ass so I hope at least it has high shock damage.

dont forget hi velocity ammo is  commonly around, change that 1,080ft/s and turn it into 1600 with 45 grain bullets (my federals, but all the high velocity ammo i have tried in my 22s are very inaccurate, i get random flyiers half the time

[oregonized 673]

all the high velocity ammo i have tried in my 22s are very inaccurate, i get random flyiers half the time

Perhaps you should maintain your equipment better or get it fixed or replaced.  

[Demoth 366]

As some one that has been hit by a .22 ( some one was Fing around back when I was in the boy scouts ), it does not have the power to knock any one on their ass, it can bring down a living target with the right shot placement but, if you're expecting some one to rag doll like they got hit with a shotgun at close range, yeah, you're in the wrong game.

Careful there. One of my clients got shot in the face with a .45 ACP. It was a close range shot and it ricocheted off his forehead. Cracked his skull and he was bleeding, but he didn't get knocked over or knocked out.

Just because something happens doesn't mean it's typical.

[Hutch (DayZ) 116]

dont forget hi velocity ammo is  commonly around, change that 1,080ft/s and turn it into 1600 with 45 grain bullets (my federals, but all the high velocity ammo i have tried in my 22s are very inaccurate, i get random flyiers half the time

That high velocity stuff is only accurate at short range. After 50 yards it's subsonic again and as it crosses the sound barrier it's buffeted and accuracy goes to hell.

I always get tighter patterns with subsonic stuff.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Hutch

[Mukaparska 55]

What? I've killed a zombie numerous of times with one .22 shot? 

[PhillyT 554]

As someone who does have guns, a .22lr is a fine round to use on a person. In fact stats wise the .22lr kills more people every year than any other ammo, but mainly due to stupid people being stupid. If you can't kill a woodchuck with a .22 that's pretty bad. I'm not even sure what you're talking about with 9mm. 9mm are actually used by the U.S. military in the handguns. It was the .45 but not any longer. What people seem to be leaving out of this discussion is actually how the round expands once it hits it's target. .22lr will go straight through the target not applying much ft/lbs. Today ammo is jacketed hollow pointed because the ammo will smoosh or expand upon impact, knocking back and increasing the amount of damage done to the intended target. You can get .22lr jhp but i'm not sure how effective it is in comparison to just jacketed round nose or even lead round nose. In killing an infected zombie, who knows what kind of ability they have to withstand damage. On a normal person, a .22lr will kill them easily with a headshot at anything under 50yards. Hell up to 100 yards would, and it is the rare strange case when someone finds they still have a .22 lodged in their head.

 

The statement regarding "kills more people than any other round" is a classic case of correlation=/=causation.  .22 kill more people only because they are the most common round in firearms by a wide margin.  Additionally, the claim that .22 will bounce off bone etc. isn't a trait unique to the .22.  When reading about .22 lethality, most of the time the danger is played up because some people almost treat .22 as toys.  They aren't.  They can kill.  But their lethality is the very bottom of the rifle barrel.  

 

Headshots might be a point. though again, we have reams of data showing people who survive head shots, some at or above .44 magnum caliber. In terms of game usability though, the .22 should be a one shot kill to the head purely for game mechanics.

 

In a game where you can be shot two or three times center mass with a .308 before going down, it should take a dozen .22 shots to do the same.