I've heard troubling rumours...(no helis)

[Nocturnal (DayZ) 85]

Endgame Huey FTW

[WargameKlok 166]

What orlok said. Not easy to explain. It's like trying to explain sex. The definition is vastly different to the experience.

Edited March 4, 2014 by WargameKlok

[Etherimp 1323]

Personally I hope they don't add heli's.

 

My squad and I had all 4 heli's on a public hive vanilla server.. We also had 8-13 land vehicles at any given time.. (all of the offroad/military vehicles, and a few ATV's). Nobody could find our base, and nobody could touch us.. We ran the server for about 4 months before someone betrayed us from within and C4'd all of our stuff. When we were bored we could fly around the entire map in a night and destroy every other base and/or vehicle on the map. Nothing was safe from us. 

Fun for us in the moment, yes.. But in the big picture, I don't think heli's belong in DayZ.

[Etherimp 1323]

Confirmed. I hope there won't be helicopters, but if they have to at least make them a lot harder to fly/maintain.

 

 

 

 

That looks very similar to our base on US264, except I know it isn't because you have 2 Military Offroads there and 2 UAZ's, and there was only 1 available on US264.. We also had both White Offroads, the URAL, the V3S, and some other stuff..

 

Is that location somewhere around 002/083?

[WargameKlok 166]

Personally I hope they don't add heli's.

My squad and I had all 4 heli's on a public hive vanilla server.. We also had 8-13 land vehicles at any given time.. (all of the offroad/military vehicles, and a few ATV's). Nobody could find our base, and nobody could touch us.. We ran the server for about 4 months before someone betrayed us from within and C4'd all of our stuff. When we were bored we could fly around the entire map in a night and destroy every other base and/or vehicle on the map. Nothing was safe from us.

Fun for us in the moment, yes.. But in the big picture, I don't think heli's belong in DayZ.

With Respect I find your logic to be flawed. What you're saying is that because players can be douchebags with a feature it shouldn't be in the game. Your own story proves my point. Your group was betrayed and the vehicles respawned. That IS DayZ.

[oregonized 673]

This game will be ruined if there are helicopters and airplanes like in the mod.  Having cars and trucks is already going to make the map seem incredibly small.

[Etherimp 1323]

With Respect I find your logic to be flawed. What you're saying is that because players can be douchebags with a feature it shouldn't be in the game. Your own story proves my point. Your group was betrayed and the vehicles respawned. That IS DayZ.

 

 

There was no flaw in my logic. 

A single helicopter provides a single group the ability to horde, locate, or destroy all the vehicles and camps on the map in a very short period of time.

 

Know what happens when a new player joins a server, and they spend 8 hours with friends gathering all the necessary resources to repair a vehicle and set up a few camps out in the woods, just to have it all destroyed that very same night by an established group on the server that has access to a helicopter?

 

They don't come back. They just wasted 8 hours and achieved nothing. You don't know if a hacker found your base or if it was that pesky squad of helicopter owning assholes. 

 

What good is hiding anything in DayZ just to have it destroyed the very same night? If 1 group controls all of the helicopters, there is no way to retaliate against them. Unless you literally run across the entire map on foot and search every nook and cranny, odds are you would not find our base.. It would take you HOURS upon HOURS of searching with no guarantee of success.. Then even if you do find it, it would take you more hours to steal all of it, unless you have a large group.. If it's just you, the only thing you can do is destroy most of it and take ..what.. 1 heli? Then what? Then my group comes on the next night, repairs a respawned heli, then hunts down the heli you stole and restarts the process again. 

 

I know that WAS DayZ.. but I don't think that is what DayZ SHOULD be. Helicopters are "overpowered".. They create a large rift between the power of an established group and the power of a fresh spawn. Before you have helicopters, even a DMR sniper with night vision can be taken out by a clever player with a Winchester. If you have a vehicle (such as an offroad), you have some advantage in mobility.. The ability to search for heli-crashes and camps is increased, but not dramatically so.. With a Heli, however, you can do everything all in 1 night without issue and you can do it completely unchecked.

[MagneticToast 102]

I definitely want them in the game. I could never figure out how to fly one but the atmosphere they provide is awesome

[WargameKlok 166]

There was no flaw in my logic.

A single helicopter provides a single group the ability to horde, locate, or destroy all the vehicles and camps on the map in a very short period of time.

Know what happens when a new player joins a server, and they spend 8 hours with friends gathering all the necessary resources to repair a vehicle and set up a few camps out in the woods, just to have it all destroyed that very same night by an established group on the server that has access to a helicopter?

They don't come back. They just wasted 8 hours and achieved nothing. You don't know if a hacker found your base or if it was that pesky squad of helicopter owning assholes.

What good is hiding anything in DayZ just to have it destroyed the very same night? If 1 group controls all of the helicopters, there is no way to retaliate against them. Unless you literally run across the entire map on foot and search every nook and cranny, odds are you would not find our base.. It would take you HOURS upon HOURS of searching with no guarantee of success.. Then even if you do find it, it would take you more hours to steal all of it, unless you have a large group.. If it's just you, the only thing you can do is destroy most of it and take ..what.. 1 heli? Then what? Then my group comes on the next night, repairs a respawned heli, then hunts down the heli you stole and restarts the process again.

I know that WAS DayZ.. but I don't think that is what DayZ SHOULD be. Helicopters are "overpowered".. They create a large rift between the power of an established group and the power of a fresh spawn. Before you have helicopters, even a DMR sniper with night vision can be taken out by a clever player with a Winchester. If you have a vehicle (such as an offroad), you have some advantage in mobility.. The ability to search for heli-crashes and camps is increased, but not dramatically so.. With a Heli, however, you can do everything all in 1 night without issue and you can do it completely unchecked.

Again I disagree with you. I've spent countless hours on Mod servers without ever seeing a heli and without having our camps destroyed. Not everybody with a heli destroys everything on the map.

Players naturally stop populating servers where OP Squads destroy everything. Most server admins don't put up with such abuse because they don't want low pop servers.

We don't need help by limiting resources in the game. Players will populate servers where we can find what we're looking for. This concept has already been proven in the mod.

[Etherimp 1323]

Again I disagree with you. I've spent countless hours on Mod servers without ever seeing a heli and without having our camps destroyed. Not everybody with a heli destroys everything on the map.

Players naturally stop populating servers where OP Squads destroy everything. Most server admins don't put up with such abuse because they don't want low pop servers.

We don't need help by limiting resources in the game. Players will populate servers where we can find what we're looking for. This concept has already been proven in the mod.

 

 

What is the counter-play to squads having helicopters?

Admins shouldn't have to ban people or artificially destroy their goodies because they are using a viable and effective strategy that is emergent in the game... The game should provide a method of counter-play.

 

So..Tell me.. What's the natural counter-play to a squad owning all the heli's and dominating everyone else with them?

 

*edit* While not everybody would abuse helicopters, if you leave the potential there for abuse then abuse will happen, and it shouldn't be up to admins to control this. The counter-play should be within the game.. and with DayZ there is simply no counter to helicopters.. hence why I consider them "OP", and I use that term loosely.

 

Keep in mind, we destroyed camps and vehicles, but we also used helicopters to help people. So don't make it out like every squad that has heli's is just a group of KOSing bandit assholes. I just know how it feels to be on both sides of the fence, and as much fun as I had in DayZ mod with heli's, I honestly don't think they're good (or necessary) for DayZ SA.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Etherimp

[eleventhavenue 204]

But the admins will have to not stand up to such abuse unless they want their server removed, and just because some people don't horde around all the stuff doesn't mean that hoarding isn't a problem...

 

-- Here my arguments stop and my personal opinions starts --

 

I personally think that Helicopters were an artifact from Arma, a ´´cool thing´´ that was there because it could be added with very little effort, like the AS50's or NVG's.

I don't think these things belong in SA.

Some kind of light fixed-wing aircraft would be interesting in my opinion. A fixed-wing plane doesn't really give the same possibilities, an they're not armed (obviously).

[xRann 126]

Again I disagree with you. I've spent countless hours on Mod servers without ever seeing a heli and without having our camps destroyed. Not everybody with a heli destroys everything on the map.

Players naturally stop populating servers where OP Squads destroy everything. Most server admins don't put up with such abuse because they don't want low pop servers.

We don't need help by limiting resources in the game. Players will populate servers where we can find what we're looking for. This concept has already been proven in the mod.

Given the tools, there will always be people doing this. We had a four man team, played around bunches of shenanigans, but still scooped up any an all vehicles almost every day. When we were six strong, shit just stopped getting "reacquired" by it's previous owners because someone was usually around or would hunt them down.

 

Before us, others did the same. It's just a power struggle and battle of attrition for control. Nothing that even constitutes cheating or abuse that an admin would even have right to kick/ban for. Playing well within the limits and scope of the game put before us.

[hellcat420 212]

i hope they dont add any aircraft. they are way too cheesy and make the entire game trivial.

[WargameKlok 166]

What is the counter-play to squads having helicopters?

Admins shouldn't have to ban people or artificially destroy their goodies because they are using a viable and effective strategy that is emergent in the game... The game should provide a method of counter-play.

So..Tell me.. What's the natural counter-play to a squad owning all the heli's and dominating everyone else with them?

*edit* While not everybody would abuse helicopters, if you leave the potential there for abuse then abuse will happen, and it shouldn't be up to admins to control this. The counter-play should be within the game.. and with DayZ there is simply no counter to helicopters.. hence why I consider them "OP", and I use that term loosely.

Keep in mind, we destroyed camps and vehicles, but we also used helicopters to help people. So don't make it out like every squad that has heli's is just a group of KOSing bandit assholes. I just know how it feels to be on both sides of the fence, and as much fun as I had in DayZ mod with heli's, I honestly don't think they're good (or necessary) for DayZ SA.

In my countless hours of playing the Mod I can tell you that, in my experience, most DayZ players are not abusive douchbags. This doomsday prediction that you're trying to sell me didn't happen. I can speak for the many squads I ran with. Just because we saw a camp doesn't mean we landed and touched it. Most guys I played with wouldn't have any of that type of bullshit and I believe with all my heart that most DayZ players are of like mind. This is not conjecture, this is my real life experience with hundreds of DayZ players, both as squadmates, playing with server regulars and communities ( BMRF PCGN etc ) and Admins.

I've already mentioned the counter play in this topic. I've been shot down, I've crashed and died or heavily damaged the heli and had to hoof it out on foot. I've been shot down many times. I've been ambushed and had it stolen. What more do you need?

Also, after final release, there will be a limited number of helis and Dean mentioned they would be much tougher to fix and maintain (at least I think it was Dean who said that) so you're correct, the Stansalone ISN'T the Mod so people are going to have to be much more careful what they use the heli for and I don't believe for one minute that they're going to risk a heli to destroy your can of beans. It just doesn't make sense.

I'm not a supporter of the " there might be an Abuser, so let's take this feature out of the game" cause. Let's just agree to disagree.

[Admiral_69 78]

Guys,

Part of the "joy" of post apoc game is dealing with all the dangerous weapons left behind.

If military helis were left behind it is safe to assume there were MANPADS left behind in the military base as well.

Manpads: Man Portable Air Defense System. Think stinger missle.

BOOM.

And yes, it is heavy and reasonably complicated to use. It should reflect that in game.

[rapier17 48]

I wouldn't mind the presence of helicopters if they were incredibly rare. As in finding a helicopter, well done you managed to find one! Now find the bits and you're going to need trucks to carry the parts, if you find them, and it'll require a lot of maintenance and fuel to get it, and keep it, running. I'd love to be sneaking around my usual haunts only to hear a helicopter flitting about the sky and watch it fly by (from concealment) thinking 'Well there's something you don't see every day!'.

[WargameKlok 166]

Guys,

Part of the "joy" of post apoc game is dealing with all the dangerous weapons left behind.

If military helis were left behind it is safe to assume there were MANPADS left behind in the military base as well.

Manpads: Man Portable Air Defense System. Think stinger missle.

BOOM.

And yes, it is heavy and reasonably complicated to use. It should reflect that in game.

You are correct. Some of the Epoch servers I played on had Stinger missiles. You had to be extremely careful of where and when you used a heli. Succes rates on those servers were about 50%

[Capo 323]

If they sort all the stability issues, and possibly force 1pp/find a well optimized way to increase foliage sprites for heli users then why not?

 

used heli's a few times in the mod, every flight ended in desync followed by plunging into the ground, so yeah.

 

Everyone complaining "but then people troll the coast!" get the fuck over it, get off the coast. 

 

Everyone saying "It's OP because then they can find all the camps on the map" that is true, and something the devs will need to consider, but just because it wasn't quite right in the mod doesn't mean they'll be haphazardly ported into the SA. 

 

Debug isn't a valid camping ground now, so the idea that you can horde all the vehicles in a wasteland is invalid. Hopefully every area will have traffic of some kind. 

[eleventhavenue 204]

One thing I don't understand: Why are there even weapons lying around in the barracks? It doesn't appear like there was much struggle (and why would there? Surely the military would move to defend the civilian population, not hole up in their poorly entrenched base), so why are there weapons and equipment in the bunk rooms and jail cells? Wouldn't all these either be in some kind of armory, or on the corpse of a dead CDF soldier on the road between Chernogorsk and Novigrad?

 

And why does everyone think that the CDF even had armories bristling with MANPADS and parked T-72's? The campaign clearly establishes that the CDF is a volunteer militia force. The CDF does have armor in the form of a few T-72's and some BMP IFV's but it really doesn't seem like the CDF was well equipped with those. (also, the CDF gets defeated by communist insurgents in open battle). From the campaign, I think it seems like most of the CDF consists of a few AK-toting Ural riders, and the most advanced weapon you would find in a CDF armory would be a RPK-74.

 

And also, even if there are advanced weapons, where would we learn to operate them? (we all know that skill books are never going to implemented, so don't pull that card please)

[Admiral_69 78]

Please note this logic means there should be tanks, APCs, and other armoured fighting vehicles. But they should be a bitxh to operate and maintain.

[Weyland Yutani (DayZ) 1159]

...that Dean was saying helicopters shouldn't be in DayZ. I mean, it is his game (at least until the end of the year) and he can push it in any particular direction, but what would DayZ be with out helicopters? They are the end game. They create perilous parts runs around the map in vehicles, which have cause some of the most awesome DayZ moments I have ever experienced. And, when you do get it up in the air, that feeling of power is pretty damn addicting haha.

 

Conclusion: I really hope that this is just a rumour and not the truth.

 

Can you provide a source? Because I remember reading recently that DH said helo's will be coming to DayZ. I also remember him saying that maintaining a helo will be very complex. I'm pretty sure I found 3 helo's in the game pbo's as well.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Weyland Yutani

[WargameKlok 166]

If they sort all the stability issues, and possibly force 1pp/find a well optimized way to increase foliage sprites for heli users then why not?

used heli's a few times in the mod, every flight ended in desync followed by plunging into the ground, so yeah.

Everyone saying "It's OP because then they can find all the camps on the map" that is true, and something the devs will need to consider, but just because it wasn't quite right in the mod doesn't mean they'll be haphazardly ported into the SA.

Debug isn't a valid camping ground now, so the idea that you can horde all the vehicles in a wasteland is invalid. Hopefully every area will have traffic of some kind.

This /\ Exactly. I forgot to mention crashing due to desynch or server restart and how many hours it took to find and repair a heli again hahaha. Great point. Whats so OP about that :)

Yes, no parking in debug plain, not gonna be so easy to hide with 1.5 million players. Again, don't get attached to your gear because you're going to lose it.

[eleventhavenue 204]

Please note this logic means there should be tanks, APCs, and other armoured fighting vehicles. But they should be a bitxh to operate and maintain.

And they should all be in Novigrad, about 80 kilometers off the map, or destroyed.

[Admiral_69 78]

Learn to operate by trial and error...

Press the wrong button during lift off and bust the rotor. (E.g you need specific time on button presses etc, as long as it accurately reflects what you need to do to actually start a heli. In other words, good luck clicking the 50 plus buttons and toggles just to get it started)

I am not familiar with the CDF or the back story. BUT what I do see is an area the size of a small city (80k people) with THREE air ports, which for some strange reason have lots of military loot.

I also have logic. Since we have yet to see rpg firing zombies, I find it highly unlikely that any of the AFVs in the CDF would have been disabled, let alone destroyed during the zompocalypse.

Please note, I am a firm believer that there should be a massive number of guns in game, but virtually zero ammo. Why? Guns are a durable good, ammo is a consumable.

Finding ammo should be like finding a fresh Kiwi.

This may also apply to fuel. Gas goes bad quickly (e.g. A simple 2 stroke lawn mower won't start after sitting for 6 months). Bad fuel will clog the spark plugs and engine filters. Multiply this by 1000 for aviation grade fuel.

[airfell 179]

Personally I hope they don't add heli's.

 

My squad and I had all 4 heli's on a public hive vanilla server.. We also had 8-13 land vehicles at any given time.. (all of the offroad/military vehicles, and a few ATV's). Nobody could find our base, and nobody could touch us.. We ran the server for about 4 months before someone betrayed us from within and C4'd all of our stuff. When we were bored we could fly around the entire map in a night and destroy every other base and/or vehicle on the map. Nothing was safe from us. 

Fun for us in the moment, yes.. But in the big picture, I don't think heli's belong in DayZ.

 

With much respect, I still don't see the hoarding as a problem. Yeah, servers go dry with vehicles from the hiding. People like me and mine enjoy hunting those bases down. We spent about a month on a server hunting down a base against a much larger rival group, used their flight patterns and areas of activity to eventually single them out. At first we found they were flying way out of their way and then moving to the target to misdirect, but as we got closer we found the base through proper tracking.

 

Eventually three of us made a coordinated plan to infiltrate their base. One came in from the east, another the west, and I from the south. I'm pretty sure I crawled for at least an hour before getting in visual range of the base. One of my buddies lost his cool and opened fire on one of them (around 5 enemies there), which not only alterted them (obviously) but got him shot down immediatly. At that point the plan was sprung, so I ran in, jumped in a chopper to steal it, they broke something on the heli with their gunfire and I lost control crashing it into a few of their cars. My last buddy was position near the "exit" of the base and took out a couple of them leaving in cars until he too was gunned down.

 

In the end all died on both sides except 2 (enemy) but about 90% of their stash of vehics was destroyed or heavily damaged.

 

Was fun times.

(was going to link screens, but steam is being slow, so this is just the ARMA II gallery. They're somewhere in there.)

http://steamcommunity.com/id/Airfell/screenshots/?appid=33930&sort=newestfirst&browsefilter=myfiles&view=imagewall

 

The moral here is that this is DayZ, people will horde anything they can, but people will find anything that is hidden... eventually. Its the most epic version of hide and go seek.

Edited March 5, 2014 by AirFell