Why is hardcore so underpopulated?

[Jex 1104]

Why, 1PP players just use the games inherently terrible movement and visibility rules to increase their ability to survive by only playing on servers were everyone is bumbling around as though they are in a halo after a ski accident.

 

I play quite a lot of both.  3PP is much more difficult as a whole.  Better players and much more tactical.  1PP normally comes down to sitting in an area and sticking your head out just a tad, waiting for someone to stumble around and wander into your field of fire.

 

This is demonstrably false. Sit on top of a roof and see how much harder it is find and engage other players and easier since you can see around and over objects. 

 

So how is it more "tactical"? Maybe you sit in a corner but that's not how i know people play it. You can sit i na corner in 3rd person and it makes it easier, not harder to see what's going on.

 

This is obvious.

[Jex 1104]

Oh sorry, I forgot visual cortex is a fucking square...

 

Face it, there is no way to put a realistic human view experience on a single monitor. Not telling you 3pp is realistic either. I'm telling you to stop bitching and accept this is just a game. Currenly, 1pp ruins my experience because I can't even move my mouse properly because acceleration and see objects because of stupid zoom levels. Let everyone play as they want, either choice won't make you a better player or anything.

 

Did u turn your mouse smoothing all the way down? I've done this and don't suffer the acceleration that badly and i'm running on really shitty FPS (maybe only just getting into double digits unless I go into a town). Not sure on the zoom levels since you go into 1st person to shoot anyway and your FOV slider affects your zoom massively.

[louist 163]

Flawed logic..

Ok returning to the boxer if he fights a boxer also with 1 eye covered yes he is playing an even playing field but that doesnt change the fact his job is harder he still suffers the lesser view to protect from a knock out punch...

It being even doesnt change the task being harder to do ....

Now the advantage give in 3pp is not actually fair or even as it favours one play style over another.. The camper wins he is able to hide and view his prey with no chance of being seen the use of 3pp by the moving player does not allow him to see the camper..

That being said i have nothing against 3pp view i am happy the hives are seperate but your kidding yourself if you believe the difficulties to be even.. Hell even as it stands now it requires the 1pp player to move slower to avoid being detected as he cant see the area behind the cover he is about to leave it requires him to scan an area before moving off .. When it takes longer it uses more food water based on time alone so this infact makes it harder (again not much harder but still harder)..

Your arguement did nothing to change the facts but did strengthen the arguement to play 1pp due to a level playing field .... Harder for both makes it even but it still makes it HARDER..

Clearly we won't agree on the issue.

Set let me pose a different question: is it harder to take out a camper in 3PP or 1PP?

[soulfirez 901]

Clearly we won't agree on the issue.

Set let me pose a different question: is it harder to take out a camper in 3PP or 1PP?

Agreeing has zero effect on the matter even has no relation to something being harder ... Dont believe me have a running race with a friend, do 4km its even in relation to what each have to do yes then try the same over 40 km its still even again in relation to what you have to do but wow is it harder..

 

Now with your question which is harder view to take out a camper you will need to be far more specific as it matters to where he/she is camping the equipment used etc...

 

Now again land a helicopter in 1pp and in 3pp and tell me which is harder and it doesnt matter on any variations at all..

 

When your wrong grown ups can admit it but far to many grown physically people just havent developed maturity to admit when there wrong .. I have had to admit i am wrong on these forums a few times try it you may grow a little ;)

[Jex 1104]

Herp and derp were running in woods. Herp said:

 

- Hey derp, I got a question; If everyone has the same settings in a multiplayer game, can there be an easy mode?

- Gee dunno herp.. maybe we should go play hardcore servers where everyone has some other same settings, that would make the game harder. Because, you know, we are virgin and have no life.

- Wow derp that's a great idea!

 

So what happens when herp is walking along the street and derp is sat on top of a roof. No amount of looking for a human shaped outline is going to help you and as soon as your back is turned, you're a dead man. Or, derp is walking down a road, there's a junction up ahead and herp is hiding behind a wall but using 3rd person to look around it undetected.

 

Whilst there is the illusion that both players have the same advantages, this is obviously false.

 

The only time this is true is if you put them on a symmetrical map with the foreknowledge the other player is there. Now you're on equal footing. 

 

3rd person takes less effort and exposes you to zero risk as you don't have to move your AV, just the camera view. 

 

So provide an argument against mine as all you're doing is asserting something right now :)

[Jex 1104]

The lack of peripheral vision is, I believe, though I know of no RV developer coming out and saying so, that this limitation, this hinderence of situational awareness, was a motivation for the creation and inclusion of third person in the Arma series. 

 

I believe the 3rd person view was implemented so you could control your AI squad and have better SA as to where they were. 

 

First person shooters always have a vision view and 3rd person doesn't fix that. Fix the camera so it's restricted to left right movement and level with the players head and you'll find these forums explode with "fix the 3rd person view!" Peripheral vision does not extend over fences or around walls but there is an FOV slider.

 

Does anybody want to take a guess at the angle it goes back to? (real peripheral is about 160 degrees I think).

 

You can also buy 3 monitors.

[Jex 1104]

To add, one thing that annoys me in both normal and hardcore servers is trying to loot items thats right in front of your face... That needs to be fixed

 

What about the doors!!!!?

 

Jesus in a balloon those things fuck me off so much. The other day, on those 3 garages after trying to close the damn things for about 30 seconds i managed it but the doors closed on me putting me on the inside where I didn't want to be!

[Jex 1104]

But...I bowl with the bumpers and yet I only play on hardcore servers :/

 

Error....Reality cannot handle this concept.

 

*Reality implosion imminent*

[PhillyT 554]

Flawed logic..

 

Ok returning to the boxer if he fights a boxer also with 1 eye covered yes he is playing an even playing field but that doesnt change the fact his job is harder he still suffers the lesser view to protect from a knock out punch...

 

It being even doesnt change the task being harder to do ....

 

Now the advantage give in 3pp is not actually fair or even as it favours one play style over another.. The camper wins he is able to hide and view his prey with no chance of being seen the use of 3pp by the moving player does not allow him to see the camper..

 

That being said i have nothing against 3pp view i am happy the hives are seperate but your kidding yourself if you believe the difficulties to be even.. Hell even as it stands now it requires the 1pp player to move slower to avoid being detected as he cant see the area behind the cover he is about to leave it requires him to scan an area before moving off .. When it takes longer it uses more food water based on time alone so this infact makes it harder (again not much harder but still harder)..

 

Your arguement did nothing to change the facts but did strengthen the arguement to play 1pp due to a level playing field .... Harder for both makes it even but it still makes it HARDER..

 

Except that it isn't harder.  Change up the boxer analogy:

 

If one fighter gets to not use gloves while the other has to, the one with gloves is at a disadvantage.  It is easier to knock out the guy without gloves on.  But if both fighters are forced to wear gloves, then it is harder to knock out both fighters, but is it now a harder fight?  No, it is a different fight.  Both fighters are incapable of getting the easier knock out, but since both are playing by the same rules, the fight isn't harder.  It is different.

[soulfirez 901]

Except that it isn't harder.  Change up the boxer analogy:

 

If one fighter gets to not use gloves while the other has to, the one with gloves is at a disadvantage.  It is easier to knock out the guy without gloves on.  But if both fighters are forced to wear gloves, then it is harder to knock out both fighters, but is it now a harder fight?  No, it is a different fight.  Both fighters are incapable of getting the easier knock out, but since both are playing by the same rules, the fight isn't harder.  It is different.

Flawed logic

 

Situation doesnt relate to situational awareness of view at all infact has noting to do with anything so i am wrong in saying flawed logic its actually no logic at all...

 

Good try though do come again :lol:

 

Edit to specify playing 3pp is not a bad thing playing 1pp is not an elite thing there are good and bad players who use both views one is simply an easier view to use no shame in that logic and common sense dictates lower situational awareness you make things harder oh and the makers of the game agree with logic also kinda hard to fight facts specially when you going to throw out stupid shit like phillyt just did ( it was an arguement to maybe compare one weapon against another not views LOL

Edited February 28, 2014 by SoulFirez

[Jex 1104]

Remember the time Dean kept trolling the Eurogamer interviewer because he played 3PP? Yeah, it was hilarious as it sounds:

"But DayZ hardcore mode, we want to be hardcore... So one day when you grow up, maybe you can try it out!" -Dean Hall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Adi5agLSRwk=share&t=1h42m50s

 

Funny, from that page is this video

 

 

Show's Frankie using 3rd person to get the jump on a player behind the fence. Notice that in this scenario, the other player does not have the ability to spot Frankie at all (btw I'm not criticising Frankie, videos are better as a mix of 3rd and 1st person but this shows how unfair 3rd person view is when it can be used like this).

[Jex 1104]

I feel the quite opposite. I think the character movements and interactions feel more right in 1st.p.

 

I don't have an issue with the controls either. Once you turn off mouse smoothing and weapon deadzone, things become much better. They probably haven't done this which is why the experience is so awful for them except going into 3rd person doesn't make the controls any easier.

[Jex 1104]

The boxer analogy is flawed to begin with because a guy sitting on a roof using 3rd person is clearly NOT on the same footing as the guy below him, walking up the street and oblivious. A better analogy would be where 2 boxers are waiting for the bell when one boxer sucker punches him before the bell has rang.

 

Well they both had the chance to sucker punch the other, right?

Edited February 28, 2014 by Jexter

[PhillyT 554]

Flawed logic

 

Situation doesnt relate to situational awareness of view at all infact has noting to do with anything so i am wrong in saying flawed logic its actually no logic at all...

 

Good try though do come again :lol:

 

Edit to specify playing 3pp is not a bad thing playing 1pp is not an elite thing there are good and bad players who use both views one is simply an easier view to use no shame in that logic and common sense dictates lower situational awareness you make things harder oh and the makers of the game agree with logic also kinda hard to fight facts specially when you going to throw out stupid shit like phillyt just did ( it was an arguement to maybe compare one weapon against another not views LOL

 

I hate to break this to you Soulfirez, but nothing you are offering is anymore valid.  If the arguement doesn't sway you, so be it.  Regular players far outnumber Hardcore.  You can take your ball to your little servers and have a blast.

 

The point of the boxer analogy is that the game is on equal footing.  Players are all playing by the same rules.  If everyone has the same limitations, nobody gets the advantage.  The continued claim that hardcore somehow levels things off isn't accurate.

[wild_man 4442]

hardcore mode is best way to experience dayz BECAUSE IS MORE INTENSE MORE DIFFICULT  :thumbsup:  ;)

 

so reward you getting from game is more same like life :)

 

but rocket make big mistake putting 3rd person in mod and after SA >:(

 

human is design by nature to find easy way maximum reward minimum risk is evolution fact :|

 

so majority using pussy crutch wallhack system  

 

to answer question of OP hardcore mode is under use mode because guys WHO LOOKING FOR MAXIMUM CHALLENGE are more rare than guys who looking for easy way :(

[Jex 1104]

I hate to break this to you Soulfirez, but nothing you are offering is anymore valid.  If the arguement doesn't sway you, so be it.  Regular players far outnumber Hardcore.  You can take your ball to your little servers and have a blast.

 

The point of the boxer analogy is that the game is on equal footing.  Players are all playing by the same rules.  If everyone has the same limitations, nobody gets the advantage.  The continued claim that hardcore somehow levels things off isn't accurate.

 

Wrong.

[victusmortuus 1074]

The 1pp players moan and cry that they want Hardcore servers, they get them. They don't play them though. It's the cycle of the 1pp players. :)

[PhillyT 554]

Wrong.

 

LOL, it isn't wrong.  Seriously, is it so difficult to admit that 1PP is nothing more than a choice?  There is nothing more difficult about the setting.  As a matter of fact, the complaints of 1PP players is that the 3PP makes the game harder for them.  They feel like they are being abused by wall peepers and want a 1PP to prevent that advantage (or at least to remove that advantage).  So this ridiculous claim that 1PP is harder ignores the very reason for demanding a locked persepctive.

[cels 43]

What about the doors!!!!?

Jesus in a balloon those things fuck me off so much. The other day, on those 3 garages after trying to close the damn things for about 30 seconds i managed it but the doors closed on me putting me on the inside where I didn't want to be!

Very true! Gates as well.. Strafing back and forth trying to get the exact spot for the icon to pop up to open them.. GAH!

Also as well.... Not sure how many times I FINALLY get the gate open up at Green Mountain only for it to trap me between the fence and the wall -.-

Edited February 28, 2014 by cels

[elf cakes 559]

There is a bit more to it than that, honestly.

 

Skyrim had a a much bigger budget, a much bigger fan base, and it was marketed out the ass. It was also a fairly polished experience that had a strong modding community to add in a trillion things to tailor it to almost anyone's taste.

 

I loved Kings Field games, Demon's Souls and Dark Souls (looking forward to 2), but let's be honest; Dark Souls had some short comings. A lack luster ending, terrible framerate in the Plague Area, and the multiplayer was absolutely horrible when someone joined in and back stabbed you while 20 feet in front of you.

i already addressed this in a previous post on this thread, please read that for my reply to you.

[HazZarD87 166]

1PP enthusiast got their 1PP servers and still have something to whine about? This isn't about 3PP or 1PP anymore. This is about a bunch of people desperatly searching for something they can point to and say "look how much better I am!!"

[PhillyT 554]

1PP enthusiast got their 1PP servers and still have something to whine about? This isn't about 3PP or 1PP anymore. This is about a bunch of people desperatly searching for something they can point to and say "look how much better I am!!"

 

Eeeeeeeexactly.

 

Best part is they try to point to Dean and his feelings, as though that matter one single tiny bit.

[doctorbadsign 645]

My theory is that it is because of the influence of certain youtubers.

 

Most of the popular DayZ youtubers I've seen use 3PP, often unashamedly to look around corners etc. This influences other players to mainly use 3PP.

[6The6Count6 28]

As far as im concerned, hardcore is the only Day Z worth playing.

Everyones on an equal footing and it takes some skill to actually do anything, makes the game more intense etc..

 

Much better then the lads coming along playing Day Z GTA 2 style shooting everything without a care in the world.

[Martmital 436]

Fuck me, it's as bad as the 'humanity' subject.

 

Maybe HC servers are unpopulated because the majority don't like em. 

 

 

I know, shocking, right...