The concept of killing has changed in SA

[blurhitz 244]

Back in the mod, like a year and a half ago or so, at least for me and for the people I knew who played it, had a different concept of killing than people have now. DayZ was just about surviving.

 

Let me give you a situation as an example to explain you why:

 

Let's say you're dehydrated, there is nothing to drink nearby and you're low on blood. So if you don't drink in 1 minute you'll probably fall. Now, there is a guy like 10 meters away from you (33 ft if you don't use metric system), you have a gun, he didn't see you. Now you have two options:

 

1 - Killing him and, if he has water (let's say it's a 70% chance), you stay alive 

2 - Asking for help (I'd say 40% chance of a friendly response) 

 

Now keep in mind we're not considering "oh, you're almost dead anyway, it doesn't matter" because first, you have your loot, and second, if you actually don't have any loot, as I said back in the beggining, DayZ is about surviving, so it doesn't matter (at least for me) if you don't have any loot because you still have your life to lose.  :thumbsup:

 

In my opinion, the best option would be the first one. Again, DayZ is about surviving, so the best option is, most of the times, the one that has more chance of making you stay alive.

 

Now let's analyze mod/SA comparison:

 

Mod: You did that to stay alive  :thumbsup:  :)

SA: YOU KILLED ON SIGHT, BITCH  > :(

 

Maybe your concept was different, but I'm sure I noticed it changed.

The literal concept of killing on sight is, well, killing someone who's in your sight.  :|

But the concept I think people use in DayZ is killing someone for no reason, so at the moment you notice the person is in your sight, you shoot it. 

Keep in mind we're using the DayZ concept not the literal one.

 

Let's talk about banditry now.

Now people think that being a bandit is killing on sight. That just ruins the concept of banditry in the game.

At least for me, being a bandit can be a lot of things but killing on sight, like the following:

- Handcuffing someone and feeding weird shit

- Breaking someone's leg, bandaging the person and leaving the person to crawl the whole game

- Rob the person and destroying his things you don't need (leaving him naked)

And on it goes.  :)

So, what's the conclusion of this? BANDITRY is one thing, KOS'ing is another.

 

"Well BlurHitz you told us what is staying alive and what is being a bandit, and you distinguished these actions from KoS'ing. But what exactly is killing on sight?   :huh: "

 

It's simple and I can give you some examples:

- You're fully geared and you go to the coast to kill bambies

- You don't need anything more so you just go kill people because you're bored

- You see a person, you know there is nothing this person can give you, but you still kill it, because... well idk why you did that  :|

 

THEN, CONCLUDING (with the DayZ'ish concept of KOS, not the literal one):

 

- Killing to stay alive (even if in a selfish way) is NOT killing on sight 

- Being a bandit (FOR GOD'S SAKE) is NOT killing on sight

- Killing on sight = killing for no reason

 

Now, please, everytime you do a thread about KoS'ers, don't mess it up again. PLEASE.  <_<

 

Oh, and if you have a different opinion about how things changed and how they are, before raging, go drink a glass of water, calm down and come back after 2 minutes. This is a forum, the subforum name is General Discussion, not General Raging. Remember, you're a human not an animal  :thumbsup:

Edited February 19, 2014 by xBlurHitz

[Nicko2580 398]

People equate survival with killing everything in sight. That's what the biggest problem is. It's actually the opposite and would result in your eventual death in a real apocalypse style situation. You'll last longer with friends and helpers every time.

No body wants to work together because that means taking a chance and developing trust and that's genuinely hard. People like things to be easy, so a bullet does the job better than a few words.

[spinager 152]

eehhh no. KOS was the same from Mod to Standalone. 

[crazyandlazy 376]

Did OP get a Doctorate in KoS Studies? Jesus. This is a videogame. No one cares. Enjoy the game.

[Ultra7 5]

People equate survival with killing everything in sight. That's what the biggest problem is. It's actually the opposite and would result in your eventual death in a real apocalypse style situation. You'll last longer with friends and helpers every time.

No body wants to work together because that means taking a chance and developing trust and that's genuinely hard. People like things to be easy, so a bullet does the job better than a few words.

 

Really? "No body wants to work together because that means taking a chance and developing trust "... what are we supposed to do? -bring food and weapons to the bambi's and then all go skipping off into the sunset, holding hands and singing lullabies to each other? 

Perhaps we should be forming large communes and spend our time hunting down the simple to kill and almost harmless NPC zombies?!

 

The simple truth is that the zombie threat isn't large enough to warrant 'team work'.  Until the dev's create more content what else do you expect a bunch of kids (who are armed to the teeth) to do?

 

Personally I quite enjoy the game the way it is -admittedly its more "Hunger games" than "Day of the Dead", but Im sure that will change in the future? (giving us the option to play as zombies would create a common enemy, and create an 'Us v Them' element to the game). 

 

 

 

*EDIT*  Sorry, have no idea whats going on with my formatting?

Edited February 19, 2014 by Ultra7

[louist 163]

People equate survival with killing everything in sight. That's what the biggest problem is. It's actually the opposite and would result in your eventual death in a real apocalypse style situation. You'll last longer with friends and helpers every time.

No body wants to work together because that means taking a chance and developing trust and that's genuinely hard. People like things to be easy, so a bullet does the job better than a few words.

Source?

[djporternz 644]

Wow! How to over think an idea. As always, it comes back to someones own ideas of morality and their own biased definitions of KoS/Banditry, that they then try and project onto every other player in the world.

 

Of course, this is going to become indistinguishable from the myriad other KoS threads after about another 5~10 posts.

[Nicko2580 398]

Really? "No body wants to work together because that means taking a chance and developing trust "... what are we supposed to do? -bring food and weapons to the bambi's and then all go skipping off into the sunset, holding hands and singing lullabies to each other? 

Perhaps we should be forming large communes and spend our time hunting down the simple to kill and almost harmless NPC zombies?!

 

The simple truth is that the zombie threat isn't large enough to warrant 'team work'.  Until the dev's create more content what else do you expect a bunch of kids (who are armed to the teeth) to do?

 

Personally I quite enjoy the game the way it is -admittedly its more "Hunger games" than "Day of the Dead", but Im sure that will change in the future? (giving us the option to play as zombies would create a common enemy, and create an 'Us v Them' element to the game). 

 

 

 

*EDIT*  Sorry, have no idea whats going on with my formatting?

Yes admittedly right now this is true. I was thinking of in general terms in a real disaster scenario. And eventually there will be more incentives to work together. 

There will always be loners and people who kill on sight and that's good. I want that to stay in the game.

 

 

Source?

The fact that humanity exists. Without cooperation we would not. Simple as that. Cooperation and altruism benefit humans far more than being alone. Cooperation and altruism allowed humanity to build the civilisations we have today and if an apocalypse type scenario were to happen, they would be needed again if humanity wanted to recover. 

Edited February 19, 2014 by Nicko2580

[Sickerthansars 53]

eehhh no. KOS was the same from Mod to Standalone. 

This, along with the fact that in the SA there is nothing to do after you get what little gear there is but pvp and deathmatch. We really need a KOS subfourm don't need 10 new threads on why kos is different/out of control/my solution to kos every hour. Its the same as it has always been, and will go down when more features are added to the game. 

[enforcer1975 1111]

You forgot...

 

3 - you killed him and now a horde of zombies is after you...

 

Killing doesn't change...it's still done with weapons that just look different...

[Mdogg2005 447]

Well yeah but half the people kill just to be an asshole.  Right now there's no difficulty in surviving, that will change with time.  Until then, people make it their goal to get decked out with military gear and just run around killing everyone they see for sport - not for survival.

[Leo Balzac 190]

I blame CoD.

[Nicko2580 398]

Well yeah but half the people kill just to be an asshole.  Right now there's no difficulty in surviving, that will change with time.  Until then, people make it their goal to get decked out with military gear and just run around killing everyone they see for sport - not for survival.

Survival becoming more difficult might even encourage more KoS. If it's harder to get gear and you see someone well kitted... well... it's pretty easy to shoot them and take that fancy military rifle you've been searching for than it is to try and barter for it. 

But at the same time I think it will also encourage people to team up. Hopefully it balances out. There's always gonna be people like Wheunis who just want to play the murderous psycho and that's cool too.

[SpudGun (DayZ) 13]

A lot of the problem comes from the fact that there is so much of everything for testing purposes. Pretty simple really, give people guns and lots of ammo (and not a lot else at this stage) and they will kill each other.

I think they will make ammo extremely rare when it comes closer to release and the QQ threads will flow.

[louist 163]

Yes admittedly right now this is true. I was thinking of in general terms in a real disaster scenario. And eventually there will be more incentives to work together.

There will always be loners and people who kill on sight and that's good. I want that to stay in the game.

The fact that humanity exists. Without cooperation we would not. Simple as that. Cooperation and altruism benefit humans far more than being alone. Cooperation and altruism allowed humanity to build the civilisations we have today and if an apocalypse type scenario were to happen, they would be needed again if humanity wanted to recover.

My point stands; all you have presented are assumptions and suppositions. Claiming to know how people will respond to, and act in, an apocalypse is, at best, utter guesswork. And it's a pure flight of fancy otherwise.

[koNtenT 36]

 

- Killing on sight = killing for no reason

I personally KOS because that,s much easier then going through the town and looting buildings. Why not get someone else to do the dirty work? Yeah I'm surviving, just another way of doing it. 

 

Why go to an Airfield when you can get EVERYTHING and more from 1 person you KOS. 

 

WORTH.

[Nicko2580 398]

My point stands; all you have presented are assumptions and suppositions. Claiming to know how people will respond to, and act in, an apocalypse is, at best, utter guesswork. And it's a pure flight of fancy otherwise.

Unless you actually know anything about history which is entirely jam packed full of examples of how humans behave during apocalyptic scenarios. World Wars, massive natural and man made disasters, calamity, strife and mayhem. 

The subject is called anthropology and it is broad and interesting, if you actually want information and are not just attacking me for an attacks sake.

Edit: But I think you are thinking that I expect the same to hold true in DayZ - it won't because this is a game. The devs need to try and model it as closely as possible but as I said, it's a game and that adds the ability for people to do whatever they want without real consequence.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Nicko2580

[blurhitz 244]

I personally KOS because that,s much easier then going through the town and looting buildings. Why not get someone else to do the dirty work? Yeah I'm surviving, just another way of doing it. 

 

Why go to an Airfield when you can get EVERYTHING and more from 1 person you KOS. 

 

WORTH.

 

I never said that's not surviving.

[louist 163]

Unless you actually know anything about history which is entirely jam packed full of examples of how humans behave during apocalyptic scenarios. World Wars, massive natural and man made disasters, calamity, strife and mayhem.

The subject is called anthropology and it is broad and interesting, if you actually want information and are not just attacking me for an attacks sake.

I was thinking more along the lines of the "end of the world" apocalypse, but I was being more specific than i should have been. I agree, history is full of examples. In fact, history is full of examples going both ways. Look at the Meduse, for example. Those who acted against the group, those who refused to cooperate, those who thought only of themselves, survived. But I'm not going to use that example to claim that in every case, acting selfishly is the best course of action, or that people will act in that manner every time, which is essentially what you were arguing.

There are simply too many factors which we can't quantify, too many personalities, power dynamics, too many facts unique to each and every situation, to make any such claims. That was why I called you out. Not simply to attack for an attack's sake. This isn't in-game.

[Nicko2580 398]

I was thinking more along the lines of the "end of the world" apocalypse, but I was being more specific than i should have been. I agree, history is full of examples. In fact, history is full of examples going both ways. Look at the Meduse, for example. Those who acted against the group, those who refused to cooperate, those who thought only of themselves, survived. But I'm not going to use that example to claim that in every case, acting selfishly is the best course of action, or that people will act in that manner every time, which is essentially what you were arguing.

There are simply too many factors which we can't quantify, too many personalities, power dynamics, too many facts unique to each and every situation, to make any such claims. That was why I called you out. Not simply to attack for an attack's sake. This isn't in-game.

I think it's self evident that altruism and cooperation are the best course of action for humanity to survive and thrive, yes. I think you only have to look at your computer to see that. Or the house you live in. Or the food that's in your cupboards. I don't think that anything beyond the fact that humanity exists in it's current state is needed as proof (a sort of anthropic principle of civilisation, if you will).

I wasn't talking about the individual - I was talking about survival of the species. It will never be achieved by being alone. At the very minimum it takes two to breed. 

I was trying to put that into the context of a game where there (currently) are no long term rewards for survival. When there are long term rewards and goals, I think you'll find people working together far more. As I said, I don't want to see KoS and murderers and bandits eliminated or even punished (unless it's player generated punishment), but I do want to see long term survival goals that encourage the finer things in the human spirit appear. And yeah, I think I can somewhat predict the general thrust of behaviour depending on what sort of things are implemented. 

I don't think that's an unreasonable prediction either, I think most game developers try hard to anticipate and deliver on their predictions of how players will behave - sometimes they get it right, sometimes they get it wrong and very often they are completely surprised or overwhelmed by the results.

[DoxHoliday 51]

I've been waiting for this !  I'm glad someone finally started a thread about the difference between KOS and KOS !!

[Whyherro123 2283]

Source?

Literally every single survival manual ever printed, both civilian and military, repeatedly and heavily stresses the importance of the group in a survival situation, and emphasizes cooperation over aggression in interpersonal conflicts. Literally every single one.

[weedmasta 784]

Articulation isn't your strong suit is it?

 

Yabadabadoo

[McGarnagle 94]

Let's say you're dehydrated, there is nothing to drink nearby and you're low on blood. So if you don't drink in 1 minute you'll probably fall. Now, there is a guy like 10 meters away from you (33 ft if you don't use metric system), you have a gun, he didn't see you. Now you have two options:

 

1 - Killing him and, if he has water (let's say it's a 70% chance), you stay alive 

2 - Asking for help (I'd say 40% chance of a friendly response)

 

I think your problem is that your entire premise is based on ad hoc statistics. Anecdotal evidence is the worst kind of evidence. Not only that, the hypothetical scenario you gave isn't even a typical DayZ encounter between players. Most people that I've run into don't need anything. The KoS players I've killed are almost always more kitted up than I am.

 

In the current build, I don't see how a geared player could even get that dehydrated and not know where to go to fix it, but my experience tells me that outside of an airfield, you'd get a can of soda out of most people, assuming you didn't make them feel edgy. If your concern is for the game in the long-term, by then we'll all have a lot more to do than just find guns and blast people. Hopefully by then, anyone that's bought the game will have had time to make friends with other players, whether they're a lone wolf or not, making your scenario even less likely,

 

All of my negative encounters in this game (socially awkward mumblers swearing at you after praying and spraying on sight) have been centered around Balota, basically. Up in, say, Berezino or Krasnostav people are overwhelmingly friendly. I wouldn't trust any of them with my exposed back, nor do I loiter around strangers that lack microphones, but that's a whole different aspect of player interaction.

[Wiggin Miller 21]

You cite differences between KoS and banditry, but they are all internal reasons that no one can figure out for sure.

Sure, he could of needed water. He could go to a well, or see if I have it, and maybe break my legs,break my shit, and move on.

This thread has no point. You make no life-changing argument.

Whether I'm killing you cause I'm bored or cause I'm hungry, the end result is the SAME. The devil lies in the details sure, but at that moment when your screen goes black I'm sure you're not going "man that guy was surviving"