Persistent storage containers; do you like the idea or not?

[Karmaterror 982]

For me storage is a great thing. On the mod building up a camp can take time and effort, but all that can be undone in seconds by a hostile group. No matter how well you hide it, someone will find it eventually. Some groups get a vehicle and make a hobby of camp hunting. As long as they can be raided and destroyed by other players im all for them :)

[HazZarD87 166]

For me storage is a great thing. On the mod building up a camp can take time and effort, but all that can be undone in seconds by a hostile group. No matter how well you hide it, someone will find it eventually. Some groups get a vehicle and make a hobby of camp hunting. As long as they can be raided and destroyed by other players im all for them :)

Exactly. This is why the "you can just run back and gear up" thing doesn't fly. It's also not like tents just magically spit out gear.. you'll have to gather all of it first.

[naraga 45]

Only if stored gear is deleted upon death.

 

If persisting through dead this shouldn't be brought back. Tents were, amongst other thing, the bane of the mod.

[Whyherro123 2283]

If I can, in real life, take an ammo can, fill it with stuff, and bury it in the ground, then come back to it 3 weeks later and have the stuff be fine, then we should be able to in-game.

However, I believe that they should be the only thing that could be used as persistent storage. "soft" containers like tents and bags are both 1) too permeable to water and 2) too fragile to be left alone for any feasible length of time. At least "hard" containers, like ammo cans and plastic case, are intrinsically waterproof (relatively. NOTHING is 100% waterproof) and can resist the elements relatively well.

In fact, there should be a sort of random degradation of gear left in stored stashes, to duplicate the destructive effects of water seepage into a closed container. That makes sense, and entails an element of risk.

[-MadTommy 367]

If I can, in real life, take an ammo can, fill it with stuff, and bury it in the ground, then come back to it 3 weeks later and have the stuff be fine, then we should be able to in-game.

 

If in real life you get killed, are you still able to dig up your ammo 3 weeks later?

 

Nothing like ignoring the 'elephant in the room'. :P

Edited February 18, 2014 by MadTommy

[Mr Jizz 313]

I have some thoughts on this.

 

As I've mentioned in a multitude of threads concerning the lament of KoS, deviant bandits, etc. there is a quintessential disconnect between what happens in a video game and what would happen in the real world. In real life, presented with the scenario of this game, I contend that most people would cooperate or commiserate when confronted by strangers.  If ONLY from sheer loneliness of being among the last surviving uninfected.  Granted there are a few bad eggs, but the amount of unwarranted murder present in the game is because it IS a video game.  If someone chooses to play like a mindless serial killer, they are free to do so, this IS a video game; though I contend this 'choice' remains unrealistic. That said, the resulting imbalance of what 'would' happen and what 'is' happening opens the door for artistic-license, so the developers can do what needs to be done to keep the game entertaining.

 

Tents (or whatever form stashing takes) should be hive-based and unlimitedly lootable.  When you join a server, your gear stash spawns in with you, wherever you left it.  If someone finds it before you return, that's bad luck for you. It adds a fresh objective to veteran players, both from a collection and banditry stance, and it adds a new player dynamic.. to loot or not to loot [someone else's shit]? There should also be a limited number of slots, similar perhaps to a mountain pack, and a further limitation on hardware similar to the player.  One, maybe two positions for a gun. We wouldn't want to see people hording 15 guns and enough food and ammo to storm the Bastille. Its at that point that stashing seems silly and exploitable.

 

Consider how these things interact with the actual game.  Would you plant your tent near a high-traffic area like a city or airfield? Of course not, unless you were setting a trap  ;) .  Furthermore, considering (A.) how far away you'd have to hide your tent from loot-heavy places and (B.) the already-limited nature by which you can carry surplus gear or weapons, it will actually take great efforts to build up any sort of stock pile.  In the Mod, a player could say, "i'll just leave 5 of my 10 guns" .. in Standalone, if you want a gun in that tent you're either giving up the only one you've got, or you're carrying a second one in your hands from wherever you found it.. not terribly efficient-  especially in lieu of how fruitless all your efforts might be if someone could find your tent just as easily as they can find you.

 

To all the folks complaining that tents will unrealistically betray the notion that dying means you return as an entirely new person, (without connection to the previous life, memories or otherwise): consider the fact that every time you return as a new person you maintain knowledge of the entire map, the unbroken chatter of people in teamspeak, the amalgamated experience of dozens of hours of play, and intimate knowledge of exactly where you have to go to find a gun.. THAT is unrealistic.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Mr Jizz

[byrgesen 1341]

Short and simple:
I cant wait to go "tent hunting" again :D

 

This is what i spend 80-90% of my time doing in the mod, and i miss it so so so much :(

[spinager 152]

Better idea would be for dead players dropping coordinates to their stashes. Be it all locations or a % of their locations (if they have more than 1). This way, the player killing them will have the chance to search their body and find out their stash locations. Reward for killing and looting rather than just killing and moving along. 

 

It will also allow time for the party that got the coordinates to head to the stash and gain the reward.The dead player will also have the choice of going back and see for themselves if they still have the loot or if its been sucked dry. 

 

Not only that, but players might be deterred to just go gun blazing into places. They may let that lone player go in the chance another group will hear and come investigate.

 

That imo would be a better system. 

[St. Jimmy 1631]

If you can storage as much loot as in the mod then I'm not fan of it. It can break the loot balance. Also you shouldn't be able to get the loot that you had storaged in the previous life because that ruins the perma-death feeling. That could be reduced if you couldn't get for many days on the server you died. Yellow storage box could be a good start to see how persistent storage could be added in DayZ.

[louist 163]

Once private hives come to exist I am all for persistent storage containers.

With a public Hive I would not be bothered with such things what is stopping some one from merely server hopping onto your containers location.

I don't understand your point. What would stop anyone on your set dr from merely walking to it?

[louist 163]

If you can storage as much loot as in the mod then I'm not fan of it. It can break the loot balance. Also you shouldn't be able to get the loot that you had storaged in the previous life because that ruins the perma-death feeling. That could be reduced if you couldn't get for many days on the server you died. Yellow storage box could be a good start to see how persistent storage could be added in DayZ.

What perma-death feeling?

[CrashBoomK 12]

While a lot of this is to be simulated to real life not everything should be.  After all this is a Video game.  Guess what happens when you die in RL?  Your dead no coming back no starting over your gone.  So all this crying about Perma-Death is kind of a moot point honestly because no matter what you don't actually get Perma-Death in a video game.  If your gonna cry about things breaking the Perma-Death feeling and so on then how about we make some changes to make Death feel more like an actual death?  If you die you can't respawn for 24 hours or up to a week?  I don't think the majority of players would really like that one because then deaths really do have some major consequences.

 

Anyways,  I'm for Persistent Storage Containers.  I think they are a good idea and of course should be server based so that they can be raided even when your offline.  Storage size maybe a backpack or slightly larger.  I don't think you should be able to store Guns in them but everything else you should.  Okay possibly pistols but no Rifles.  Definitely not limitless though.  No degradation of items though, it's just kind of a cheap mechanic and honestly doesn't fit with some of what they are trying to do.  Your biggest risk should be another player finding and destroying your stash.  The fact that they are actually running the Day/Night cycles as actual 24 hour cycles means that the decay should take like months or years depending on the items.  I mean really is that Scope or Can of beans or Gas Canister I'm storing really gonna degrade that much over a few days?  No it isn't.

 

I hope they just start with backpacks as a test for the persistent storage containers.  They hold a limited amount, everyone knows what they look like, and you can't store Rifles in them.  Yes that means Hunter Backpacks will be more rare or valuable for the camo nature of them but until they fix the respawning loot and other stuff it doesn't really matter anyways since people still wait for servers to restart anyways.

 

Oh and the Timer thing to stop Server Hoppers is complete crap I still see them doing it even on Experimental servers which really have limited choices.  Yeah I actually talked to them and asked what they were doing I didn't just guess.  I'd like to see a different solution than timers that hurt the honest player with a lost session or connection for whatever reason.  Maybe a system to help promote playing on the same server over and over again.  If you always connect to the same server it keeps your position ie. Airfield or wherever you logged out at this means even if you lose connection you won't be punished, but if you switch servers it resets your character spawn to a new spawn location either random or on the coast or whatever.  Then you can't just get to a location and server hop looking for people or loot you'd have to run back to whatever location it was you wanted to loot if you switched.  It won't totally prevent server hopping but it'll make it more painful that's for sure.  There is some potential for abuse there though so it's certainly not perfect.  Meh just thinking

[louist 163]

My point isn't that perma death isn't realistic, or that it is meaningless within the realm of gaming. My issue is that perma-death, within the specific context of DayZ is a misnomer, and people who use it as a reason against the inclusion of persistent storage are ignoring this.

Perma death, in games that use it well (I'm thinking about Rogue-likes and similar games) are games where you can invest a lot of time into the game, and a lot of energy or even emotion into your character, only to lose dozens of hours worth of that investment. Those games also allow you access to very different characters and a huge array of items, abilities, and so on that result in a unique character every time.

Compare that to DayZ, where every character is a clone, and each playthrough is essentially the same. Where, if you luck out with a fresh server and don't encounter hostile players, you can be essentially fully-geared within an hour, perma death loses it's impact. With gear as the only defining characteristic of a character within the game's mechanics, Perma-death is essentially the same as restarting a level in any other game. Sure you lose an hour or so of time you had spent gearing up, but that's it. And if you play with a group, even if you did die, they can guard your loot while you run back and are suddenly back to where you were.

Tents/storage, in this view, are no different than that.

This post rambled a bit, and I apologize for that. The short version is that, in my opinion, without some cosmetic (beards) or mechanical (skills) way to give a character's life meaning, there is no perma-death. As it is, all your characters are essentially immortal. Sure, getting shot results with you waking up on the beach sans equipment, but you haven't really lost anything.

[pillock 850]

[This post rambled a bit, and I apologize for that.] The short version is that, in my opinion, without some cosmetic (beards) or mechanical (skills) way to give a character's life meaning, there is no perma-death. As it is, all your characters are essentially immortal. Sure, getting shot results with you waking up on the beach sans equipment, but you haven't really lost anything.

 

Yeah, but it does feel a bit naff. The fact that you can respawn and collect the exact same loot you had before you died is crap, in my opinion. It's not a feature that should be left in the final version. Just because it exists now in the SA alpha, and it may have existed in the Mod, it doesn't make it a desirable feature.

 

Maybe if you were disallowed for respawning in the same server you died, and couldn't hop back to it for a substantial amount of time, it'd sort it out a bit. Your stuff, either in a storage container or on your corpse, remains in the server where you left it - but YOU don't.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Pillock

[louist 163]

Yeah, but it does feel a bit naff. The fact that you can respawn and collect the exact same loot you had before you died is crap, in my opinion. It's not a feature that should be left in the final version. Just because it exists now in the SA alpha, and it may have existed in the Mod, it doesn't make it a desirable feature.

Maybe if you were disallowed for respawning in the same server you died, and couldn't hop back to it for a substantial amount of time, it'd sort it out a bit. Your stuff, either in a storage container or on your corpse, remains in the server where you left it - but YOU don't.

I can see where you are coming from, but that system would be tantamount to punishing people who play in groups. Either the person who died has to do something else, or the entire group has to log off and and switch servers. For those of us who can only play together a few hours (if that) a week, that would suck.

My other concern is that it would break up server communities, once we have the mechanics in place to encourage people to stick to a specific server (bases, vehicles). It would send a mixed message. I am also of the opinion that as people begin to settle down onto specific servers, we'll see a healthier mix of interaction, as people begin to developer relationships.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

I can see where you are coming from, but that system would be tantamount to punishing people who play in groups. Either the person who died has to do something else, or the entire group has to log off and and switch servers. For those of us who can only play together a few hours (if that) a week, that would suck.

My other concern is that it would break up server communities, once we have the mechanics in place to encourage people to stick to a specific server (bases, vehicles). It would send a mixed message. I am also of the opinion that as people begin to settle down onto specific servers, we'll see a healthier mix of interaction, as people begin to developer relationships.

 

Or the person who died can simply go back to his group? I mean it's not like one person goes down and the whole group is ruined xD

 

most of us are adults, we can handle being alone for a little bit :)

[Valadain 270]

Or the person who died can simply go back to his group? I mean it's not like one person goes down and the whole group is ruined xD

 

most of us are adults, we can handle being alone for a little bit :)

 

I think you might have missed the part where the other guy said "when you die you go to another server"

 

That is to say, you can't go back to your group. You have to play alone on another server. Which is just damned silly. Base building has already been put forth, with base building, is persistence. Through death. No game is going to institute true permadeath. They aren't going to delete your game. They aren't going to kick you off the server.

[Advent1 126]

It'd be silly to lose your tent access if you die. But remember, when vehicles are added in, all that inventory space will be precious. I'd imagine people will carry a canteen and 2 cans of food at most to be able to lug around all the vehicle parts.

[DeatHTaX 1217]

 

I think you might have missed the part where the other guy said "when you die you go to another server"

 

That is to say, you can't go back to your group. You have to play alone on another server. Which is just damned silly. Base building has already been put forth, with base building, is persistence. Through death. No game is going to institute true permadeath. They aren't going to delete your game. They aren't going to kick you off the server.

 

I mean but why do you have to go to another server when you die? Just respawn lol

 

I must be missing something here

 

edit: ooooh are you guys talking about permadeath implementation? sorry I tried to jump onto the end of that convo and failed I guess :P

Edited February 19, 2014 by DeatHTaX

[naraga 45]

It'd be silly to lose your tent access if you die. But remember, when vehicles are added in, all that inventory space will be precious. I'd imagine people will carry a canteen and 2 cans of food at most to be able to lug around all the vehicle parts.

How is it silly? Might aswell remove losing your gear upon death completely then.

Edited February 19, 2014 by naraga

[Nicko2580 398]

 

I think you might have missed the part where the other guy said "when you die you go to another server"

 

That is to say, you can't go back to your group. You have to play alone on another server. Which is just damned silly. Base building has already been put forth, with base building, is persistence. Through death. No game is going to institute true permadeath. They aren't going to delete your game. They aren't going to kick you off the server.

I really hope that server type permadeath is never implemented.. I don't have a huge amount of servers to choose from in my region in the first place... I'd be unable to play within a few weeks. :p :(

[louist 163]

Or the person who died can simply go back to his group? I mean it's not like one person goes down and the whole group is ruined xD

most of us are adults, we can handle being alone for a little bit :)

It really depends on how long the person would be locked out of a server. Aside from dissuading server hoping and ghosting, I don't think locking a person out is ever the right way to go. If death meant you couldn't return to your server for, say, 30 minutes, that essentially means that whenever one of our group dies, everyone has to relocate. After all, playing together is the entire point.

I don't mind playing solo, but that's something I do on my own time, on the first person hive. When I'm playing with friends, I want to be doing just that: playing with friends.

[Advent1 126]

How is it silly? Might aswell remove losing your gear upon death completely then.

I think you read my post wrong, I'm against the idea of losing access to your tent when you die.

[Caboose187 (DayZ) 3036]

 Base building has already been put forth

Source?

[dethsupport 110]

Guess what happens when you die in RL?  Your dead no coming back no starting over your gone.  So all this crying about Perma-Death is kind of a moot point honestly because no matter what you don't actually get Perma-Death in a video game. 

Actually you do get perma-death in this game. Your character and your precious gear that you fed to the bandits are dead and looted. Sure you can click respawn but your character is a totally new fresh character and your last character is still permanently dead and will never be back. Just because you as a player aren't perma-dead doesn't mean that your character isn't/wasn't. Sure you can apply your own knowledge as a person to the game i.e. knowing where loot spawns, how to navigate etc. but that doesn't change the fact you're on a new character.

 

Need some proof? Each time you respawn you're a new little pup washed up on shore with clothes, a battery and flashlight having nothing to do with your old character except looks.

 

Need more (very solid) proof? Randomized blood typing per life. If my new character wasn't truly a new character my blood would always be the same meaning if I died as O- and respawned I'd still be O-. That isn't the case as my old character is dead and gone forever.

 

 

 

Back on topic - I say no to persistent storage containers, inventory space is an integral part of the game, and storage containers remove that piece. There is no reason you need to carry 600 rounds of ammunition, 5 full mags, 30 cans of food and four water bottles. Having to choose what to keep and what to toss will make the game tougher, especially as more items are needed to survive Chernarus. Survival items like the portable gas stove, fuel containers, cooking pots, firewood, stones, matches etc. having proper uses will force you to really think and have some foresight.

 

Regardless, persistent storages are already somewhat in the game, you can fill a backpack with your hoarded crap and stash it somewhere. The frequent server resets are the only reason people don't really utilize this method now. Once loot respawns and everything stabilizes resets will happen less frequently and may save the location and status of items currently spawned which would make the current loot technically persistent - therefore you can probably leave a stashed backpack somewhere for weeks and its location and contents would be saved normally.

 

I'm still against the idea of hoarding though - makes inventory management less of an issue which makes the game easier.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Dethsupport