How much authenticity is too much?

[Grimey Rick 3417]

What concerns me, is that it's going to get to the point where our characters are a moving collection of injuries, infection, hunger , performance/damage modifier..etc etc. To the point where they are useless and a drain of time. At this point re-spawning with a new character will hold more appeal than continuing with the knackered existing one.. Where's the fun in that.

 

Add beards. Problem solved.

 

EDIT: For the ladies, maybe let their hair get longer. I guess this would also apply to the guys, too. 

 

/ahem

 

So let me try that again: add beards and longer hair. The longer your character lives, the more unhygienic (and thus respected) they appear. In the game, this means you're doing well. In real life, it means you're doing poorly. It's so bizarre, it just might work! :3

Edited February 11, 2014 by Grimey Rick

[mgc 92]

If youre fully kitted and it becomes more convenient to die and re-kit than to nurse yourself back to health, realism has prolly been pushed to far.

I think that if i had to spend more than 10 mins on going from near death to full health (providing i have all the necessary equipment at hand), i would get bored. And thats comming from a guy who walks instead of runs.

[Dempsey (DayZ) 4]

Add beards. Problem solved.

haha, I'm hoping this isn't a solution for the female characters also.

[=fox= damocles 54]

I'd like to be able to make bayonet work personal, being nose to nose with your victim, looking them dead in the eye, shushing him (or her) as I twist the blade and they begin bleeding out....

 

 

 

 

If youre fully kitted and it becomes more convenient to die and re-kit than to nurse yourself back to health, realism has prolly been pushed to far.

 

I'm already having that issue with the blurriness mechanic when you're hurt, less to do with convenience I know but it's a bloody nightmare on the eyes. Thankfully being able to disable it by turning Post-processes off. Hopefully they wont change that.

Edited February 11, 2014 by =FOX= Damocles

[Jack Dant 158]

What concerns me, is that it's going to get to the point where our characters are a moving collection of injuries, infection, hunger , performance/damage modifier..etc etc. To the point where they are useless and a drain of time. At this point re-spawning with a new character will hold more appeal than continuing with the knackered existing one.. Where's the fun in that.

That sounds fun ;) Well, if you want to avoid that, you would have to give long-surviving characters some sort of advantage. I still think keeping the healthy status for a while should give you improvements in fitness and disease resistance, once stamina and infections are implemented.

 

And beards, of course.

[Daemonkid 493]

What concerns me, is that it's going to get to the point where our characters are a moving collection of injuries, infection, hunger , performance/damage modifier..etc etc. To the point where they are useless and a drain of time. At this point re-spawning with a new character will hold more appeal than continuing with the knackered existing one.. Where's the fun in that.

The fun in that is my guy is a grizzled veteran of the Chernarus wasteland. 

I've been through so much, why would I want to just respawn?

I've been cut, burned, shot, bludgeoned, survived cholera, bitten. Survived infected wounds. 

That holds so much appeal to me. I wouldn't dare force a respawn. My character is a fking badass if I manage to survive all that. It's not something I would let go of willingly.

 

[Rudette 435]

If my murderous azn gurl starts growing a beard then we're gonna have some problems! >.>

That said on a male, I'd want to be able to put on a clown mask and spray-paint my beard, so I truly look homicide.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Rudette

[Corto 34]

When a game starts to feel like a second life, then it's stops being fun. A game of this sorts should be as realistic as it can without all the annoyances of real life. As long as realism improves the gameplay, it's good. If you go over that threshold then it's too much authenticity

[=fox= damocles 54]

The fun in that is my guy is a grizzled veteran of the Chernarus wasteland. 

I've been through so much, why would I want to just respawn?

I've been cut, burned, shot, bludgeoned, survived cholera, bitten. Survived infected wounds. 

That holds so much appeal to me. I wouldn't dare force a respawn. My character is a fking badass if I manage to survive all that. It's not something I would let go of willingly.

 

 

That's given me a brain wave.  

 

Award survival to that extent with immunity to certain infections, less able to be rattled under fire, can resist pain better eg from stab wounds and the like. Even have a trait much like the one from Fallout where you collected so many scars that anyone you end up in battle against becomes shaken and less effective with firearms or what ever (shaking and throwing up from nerves, loosening of bowel).

Edited February 11, 2014 by =FOX= Damocles

[Grimey Rick 3417]

That's given me a brain wave.  

 

Award survival to that extent with immunity to certain infections, less able to be rattled under fire, can resist pain better eg from stab wounds and the like. Even have the the similar trait from Fallout where you collected so many scars that anyone you end up in battle against becomes shaken and less effective with firearms or what ever (shaking and throwing up from nerves, loosening of bowel).

 

Thanks for reminding me, brb!

[dallas 5195]

There's a major difference between realism and authenticity, which is why you'll always hear Rocket deliberately using the word authentic, rather than the word realistic. The distinction is that authentic gameplay aspires to give a feeling of a real experience, not an accurate experience. This will be a constant trial and error, testing what feels real versus what feels wrong.

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

When a game starts to feel like second life, then it's stops being fun.

 

fixed that for you.

 

But srsly: Where do you see that border between "Authenticity=fun" and "it becomes a second life?" More authentic wounds and damage? More authentic medication/surgery/infection? Or by the need for sleep ?

Edited February 11, 2014 by LaughingJack

[soulfirez 901]

Lol if my character developed a limp in game from having taken shot to the leg etc sure id be slower running but id have that limp as a badge of honour the next bandit seeing might think easy prey a smarter one might thing hardened survivour....( they would both probably have a shot at me though and i end up with maybe a finger or 2 shot off making me slower to bandage etc id still push on..

 

The epic story of survivng where would it end what fate eventually befalls my grizzled bearded badass.....

[Rudette 435]

Sleep is actually one of those things that I think crosses the line too much. Sure, it works in Skyrim with survival mods, but that's because it's a single player game and hours slept equated to a few ticks that equate to a matter of seconds >.> Which you can mod beyond that to being instantaneous.

I would say for certain that sleep and deification/urination are clear taboos for me. They offer nothing but tedium and needless game time limiters.

Other systems (Hunting, skinning, disease, medicine, chemistry, crafting, broken limbs, wounds, dressing wounds, wet/cold/hypothermia, ect.) can probably be engineered within reason to be both rewardingly tedious and fun. In that sort of way that stimulates the part of the human mind that like seeing numerical values increase, or in DayZ's case, piles of loot increase!

Edited February 11, 2014 by Rudette

[Corto 34]

fixed that for you.

 

But srsly: Where do you see that border between "Authenticity=fun" and "it becomes a second life?" More authentic wounds and damage? More authentic medication/surgery/infection? Or by the need for sleep ?

 

I actually meant a second life and not second life. I don't the point of games like second life unless your actual life sucks too much and you can't change it anyway. Now, you make a really good point about where's the line between fun and too realistic. Let's say that if my character catches a cold for been exposed to low temperatures and I need medicine to stop sneezing then it's safe to say they went too far. If my character has been exposed to cold temperatures make it die of hypothermia and let's get over with it. I wouldn't go as far as calling this game a simulator because most of the stuff you can learn by playing this game you can't apply in real life, while most of the stuff you learn in proper simulator, you can.

[LaughingJack (DayZ) 767]

I actually meant a second life and not second life. I don't the point of games like second life unless your actual life sucks too much and you can't change it anyway. Now, you make a really good point about where's the line between fun and too realistic. Let's say that if my character catches a cold for been exposed to low temperatures and I need medicine to stop sneezing then it's safe to say they went too far. If my character has been exposed to cold temperatures make it die of hypothermia and let's get over with it. I wouldn't go as far as calling this game a simulator because most of the stuff you can learn by playing this game you can't apply in real life, while most of the stuff you learn in proper simulator, you can.

 

I know that you didn't meant "Second Life" - that fix was just a joke (look at my avatar... ;))

 

See, there's the difference: I'd find it absolutely awesome if let's say:

It start's raining, maybe within autumn (who knows if we get to see seasons or not?)...it's cold, wet, i don't have a raincoat because I'm all TTsKO/Assault Vest. My chars clothes get wet (the clothes already have a "Damp" status when they get wet) because of that, and since I don't come to a fireplace (or make one myself) or come in a house within the next 20 minutes, he starts sneezing and gets the cold, needs medicine, his hands are shaking, he's slower...whatever fits in here.

And if you don't treat it, it might get worse until the point where the char dies...

[Corto 34]

Just make it die, please. I know what getting frostbite/close to hypothermia feels like in real life already, I don't need to experience all the stages on a game. I get colds during the year, they go away by themselves over time, but they're annoying, don't need that in a game. It makes sense that your character suffers from starvation, dehydration or hypothermia (also fatigue). It doesn't make any sense you have to suffer all the intermediate stages of each ailment. It's a game, make it challenging and somehow believable, but keep it fun.

[Grimey Rick 3417]

Just make it die, please. I know what getting frostbite/close to hypothermia feels like in real life already, I don't need to experience all the stages on a game. I get colds during the year, they go away by themselves over time, but they're annoying, don't need that in a game. It makes sense that your character suffers from starvation, dehydration or hypothermia (also fatigue). It doesn't make any sense you have to suffer all the intermediate stages of each ailment. It's a game, make it challenging and somehow believable, but keep it fun.

 

But people who play a survival game want to do just that, survive. A properly orchestrated post-apocalyptic zombie game with environmental hazards, health ailments, hunger, thirst, other players, and of course, zombies, would be amazing.

[Daemonkid 493]

This is not your standard FPS. I'm for anything that makes survival more intense, even if it's a bit tedious to your average person.

I play it for the survival and right now there is not much survival mechanics at the moment. 

Waiting on the deep medical system. Diseases and all that. I want to fight to stay alive against all odds. Not just fight against people with guns.

[Damnyourdeadman 1045]

If my murderous azn gurl starts growing a beard then we're gonna have some problems! >.>

That said on a male, I'd want to be able to put on a clown mask and spray-paint my beard, so I truly look homicide.

You know,when they implement the temperature system i bet some of the nights will be freezing cold(snowstorm weather condition etc).So either way you won't be able to move from the cover of your sanctuary.

Sleep will be a nice addition to the game in order to reserve energy levels,refresh blood levels and keeping the player in a state when he has limited biological needs (when you sleep,you are not as hungry,thirsty).I'm cool myself with the idea of making sleep mandatory,yet for the rest of the community it can mean trouble,so the best idea would be to implement it,but not make it mandatory.

 

Edit:Also it is a known fact,that sleeping helps recover from sickness.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Damnyourdeadman

[Corto 34]

But people who play a survival game want to do just that, survive. A properly orchestrated post-apocalyptic zombie game with environmental hazards, health ailments, hunger, thirst, other players, and of course, zombies, would be amazing.

 

I didn't say anything about removing the survival aspects, I just said some intermediate aspects are only annoying and do not add to the overall experience. They actually take away from it. Instead of focusing in getting food, water, shelter or a fire, you are focusing in the fact that your character is sneezing or complaining about something that even a real human would overlook if he's under a seriously stressing situation. If you're dead tired, sun is coming down and you're still in the middle of the forest, I can guarantee you will automatically forget about that silly sneezing, the pain in the tummy and start shitting your pants if you don't find a way to spend the night as warm and comfortable as possible. Again, make it challenging, not annoying.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Corto

[Monkfish (DayZ) 339]

But people who play a survival game want to do just that, survive. A properly orchestrated post-apocalyptic zombie game with environmental hazards, health ailments, hunger, thirst, other players, and of course, zombies, would be amazing.

This.

DayZ has real potential to be a tough and unforgiving game, for lack of a better word, rather than just another Zombie-basher to add to the fucking ridiculous pile of zombie-bashers already out there. It'll do this by not pandering to the majority of the game market ("Derp. Run here. Blam blam. Pick up medkit and ammo. Run there. Blam Blam. Derp.") and by actually being challenging, but rewarding, to play. After all, if <insert apocalypse of choice> happens, simple issues would become pretty big ones if they're not looked after properly, and big issues could well spell your end.

Now, obviously, a certain creative licence has to be used for the sake of gameplay (i.e. breaking your leg should not put you out for six weeks), but there should still be a fairly hefty level of ballachery involved with serious injuries in order to make the game a proper challenge and force you to think about things whilst maintaining some level of authenticity. To go back to the broken leg, as I said, it shouldn't put you out for 6 weeks, but it also shouldn't be fixed 100% by shooting yourself up with some Morphine or tying two sticks to it. Breaking a leg should be a major thing that could eventually spell your demise (if you don't take the quick way out), simply because breaking your leg in an actual apocalypse would probably result in the same thing unless you had someone to help you. Therefore, a broken leg should be fixed by splinting (with Morphine used as a painkiller to you don't scream in agony when walking) which would result in it being slow to walk on and require a game day or so of time to heal. This would be somewhat representative of real life (heavily compressed timescales for gameplay purposes, ofc) whilst still posing a major problem for the player to overcome (authenticity). 

 

Would I want to break a leg with this system? Hell no, but if it happens and I survive it, what a fucking triumph that would be. Not wanting to break a leg in this system doesn't mean it shouldn't be in place though. This is what, for me, DayZ is all about. Insurmountable odds that you conquer and can tell tales about, not some pansy-ass shit that's somewhere in the myriad of other pansy-ass shit out there.

 

So, to business;

Rocket has already confirmed that they can detect what part of the body has been struck by a given object, so they could make quite the realistic damage model. Something like;

 

Gunshot wound - single

Head - fatal

Chest - Likely fatal

Abdomen - Fatal if left unattended

Limbs - Non-fatal.

 

Stab wound - single

Head - Non-fatal (but heavy bleeding - would be fatal if left unattended)

Chest - Likely fatal

Abdomen - Fatal if left unattended

Limbs - Fatal if left unattended for a long period

 

Heavy blunt force trauma (wrench etc) - single

Head - Unconsciousness + heavy bleeding

Chest/Abdomen - Non-fatal. Chance of stagger/downing.

Limbs - Non-fatal - chance of broken bones

 

Light blunt force trauma (inc. punching) - single

Head - Non-fatal. Chance of unconsciousness.

Chest/Abdomen - Non-fatal. Chance of stagger.

Limbs - Non-fatal

 

The exact amount of damage dealt would depend on what weapon was used and its condition in combination of what the person you're hitting is wearing along with the condition of those items. For example, someone wearing a pristine bullet proof vest being stabbed by a ruined or badly damaged knife would not likely do much damage, whereas a pristine knife against someone wearing soft clothes would have a high probability of doing damage.

 

The above would be both authentic and immersive, as well as making people really think about what they're carrying and the condition of it. It'll also change people's behaviour as being stabbed three times in the abdomen would likely be fatal.

 

I sincerely hope Rocket implements something along these lines.

[Demoth 366]

I really, really, really hope it's not working as intended in its current form. I was shot six times by an SKS-toting marksman tonight, and I didn't die. I didn't even bleed. My shirt, vest, pants and everything contained therein were systematically obliterated, but... but... I didn't even bleed! I should've been dead. Period.

This really annoys me too, even when I'm on the receiving end.

Some dude popped me 4 times with the SKS, making my screen "shock" with each hit. He shot 10 times but I only can confirm 4 of the hits. Like you, I didn't bleed. All my clothes and food? Ruined.

Gun fights are starting to be much bigger spray and pray affairs after the last patch as volume of fire is needed to ensure someone is down.

[Valadain 270]

But people who play a survival game want to do just that, survive. A properly orchestrated post-apocalyptic zombie game with environmental hazards, health ailments, hunger, thirst, other players, and of course, zombies, would be amazing.

 

I agree with this, though there is a line. In real life, even if you do everything right, you might die. In a game though, there should be reward for doing things right. So getting sick from an untreated wound or not properly dressing or sheltering? Just fine. Getting sick just randomly because you looted a guy who was sick and you have no way to know? Not so good, unless there's a reasonable chance to have medication at any given point. Being sick and hunted, dropping down prone and riding that sway to pop off a shot right as the cross-hairs pass your hunter's head? Good. Doing the same but "missing" because of random bullet physics? Bad.

 

There are some things that are realistic, but wouldn't be good additions. Manufacturing flaws with bullets (pristine bullets that don't discharge, but that you'd have no reasonable way to know that they wouldn't). Genetic diseases, like dropping dead of a random heart attack. A bad roll when eating and choking to death alone in the woods. Cutting yourself while opening a rusty can of beans and dying of blood poisoning. Generally, anything so random that playing well isn't a factor at all.

[doctorbadsign 645]

What knives need is when you are behind a player, you get a scroll menu option 'slit throat'