The Community's List of Suggested Weapons for Dayz Standalone (Version: 1.29)

[agentstaple 29]

Adding too many calibers would reduce competition between guns. The more types the higher the chance that the ammo you need is left untouched in any given area.

Diluting the spawns is actually a good thing as it means you got less ammo in general and more options. However, at some point the dynamic effect mentioned above (lacking competetion for ammo) might overcome the static effect (spawn locations and rarity) which increases the chance of finding ammo for one particular gun.

Because of this less ammo types emphasize migratory behavior (go to a place that is not yet looted) while more ammo types emphasize niche selection (pick your weapon according to the ammo around). The current dynamics lack the former (reasons are unfinished loot spawns and server hopping) while the latter is already present.

While that's true, I think it would be possible to add it while keeping the balance, you yourself said might. As long as it's added properly it would work well, it would actually help with getting people to spread around the map because it gives people a reason to go searching around little villages and towns.

 

The ammo and weapons to take it as I've said before, would be very rare, you'd be lucky to get one gun from a small town and only a few rounds spread out through the town. These guns are from WW2(some a little later), outdated and unused as you said. But there should still be a few of them around.

 

And as the rounds are used across quite a few guns (a lot of them fully automatic, the PPSH fires at something ridiculous like 1000 rounds a minute) the ammo would be in quite high demand. Using an SMG will use your ammo much faster than a pistol, though the sheer firepower, range and accuracy increase will make it worth it for some. A squad of 3 people might give all that ammo type to one guy for example, or someone might be very sparing with their ammo.

 

I think it should be hard to find ammo no matter what gun you are using. And keep in mind the goal is 100+ players a server. Ammo is gonna be hoovered up and spat out quicker than it spawns. Especially if people have PPSH's XD

Edited October 7, 2014 by Agentstapler

[Chaingunfighter 917]

>The old 7.62X25mm tokarev cartidge is old and outdated. Only a few guns would be possible to add if they added it.

 

Six Eight guns, I think that's more than enough to justify it.

 

Four SMGs

 

PPSH-41 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPSh-41

 

PPSH-43 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPS_submachine_gun

 

SA-.VZ 23 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa_vz._23

 

SA- 24 and 26 (identical other than the stock) - http://forum.valka.cz/files/sa_24-26-1.jpg

 

Bizon - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bizon_SMG

The version of the bizon that uses the round has a standard mag.

 

 

And two pistols.

 

TT33 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TT_pistol

 

CZ52 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZ_52

Was a military weapon in the czech republic from 1950-1980.

 

The downside to these weapons is that they're fairly loud, but they pack quite a punch for their size.

 

All would be very rare civilian loot except for the Bizon which would be rare police loot.

 

 

 

 

The upside to these guns would be the extra stopping power, the round will penetrate weaker body armour and that you can find ammo anywhere, the downside would be that the ammo is rare and the shots are loud for pistols/smgs.

 

I think it's reasonable for them to have a high chance of spawning in less than perfect condition, considering how old they are.

 

I suggested a lot more guns than those two so regardless, there would be reason to add the new caliber ;)

 

First, might I ask why you are against adding a new type of round? I can only see it helping the game but I might be missing something.

 

It would have different benefits and drawbacks to a 9mm. Player specific -  More power but louder, Lets players have high quality guns without the risk of going to military places. Gameplay specific - Dilutes loot spawning more meaning more decisions. Adds more variety. Makes those little towns without much in them a much more rewarding place to loot.

He just copied and pasted one of my quotes from before, but regardless, 7.62x25mm is a cartridge allowing for almost exclusively pistols and SMGs.

Plenty of .22LR, .380 ACP, 9x19mm, and .45 ACP guns that can fill that role without needing a brand new caliber for (at most) eight new pistols and SMGs.

 

The PPSh-41 would obviously be a cool gun, but like I said you can use the MP-41r which was just a conversion to 9x19mm. The PPS-43 is cool but for all intents and purposes is a second PPSh-41. The SA Vz.23, Vz.24, & Vz.26 (CZ Model 25 SMG) are cool, but they're all essentially the same gun, there's no reason to spend the time modeling all three. Not to mention that the SA Vz.23 is actually a 9x19mm weapon (the Vz.24 was the 7.62x25mm variant), so you don't even need a new caliber to get a variant in.

 

Bizon can be done in .380 ACP and 9x19mm, and would honestly portray the gun more realistically, because both of those variants retain the 64 round helical magazine. The 7.62x25mm variant replaces the helical magazine:

^ A Bizon-2-07 in 7.62x25mm. Looks incredibly similar to the PP-19-01 Vityaz, which is a 9x19mm gun.

 

Tokarev, as I stated, has Norinco clones in 9x19mm.

 

The only gun you truly cannot (officially) get without 7.62x25mm (that you listed) is the CZ-52. But even with all of them considered, do two 8-round semi-auto pistols, two World War II SMGs built on the same platform (that are fairly unique, but can be done w/o 7.62x25mm), three Czech SMGs that are almost exactly the same, and a variant of a gun that would be much better off using .380 ACP and 9x19mm anyway, make it worth adding?

Because it seems to me like you can increase variety and dilute the pool without needing to creating another ammunition type.

 

Not sure why a Chinese version would be in Chernarus. It'd probably be more realistic to find a Yugo M70a there, if you really want a 9x19 TT-33 clone.

Not to say it's more realistic, just to say you can essentially have a Tokarev & PPSh without having 7.62x25mm caliber.

 

 

While that's true, I think it would be possible to add it while keeping the balance, you yourself said might. As long as it's added properly it would work well, it would actually help with getting people to spread around the map because it gives people a reason to go searching around little villages and towns.

 

The ammo and weapons to take it as I've said before, would be very rare, you'd be lucky to get one gun from a small town and only a few rounds spread out through the town. These guns are from WW2(some a little later), outdated and unused as you said. But there should still be a few of them around.

 

And as the rounds are used across quite a few guns (a lot of them fully automatic, the PPSH fires at something ridiculous like 1000 rounds a minute) the ammo would be in quite high demand. Using an SMG will use your ammo much faster than a pistol, though the sheer firepower, range and accuracy increase will make it worth it for some. A squad of 3 people might give all that ammo type to one guy for example, or someone might be very sparing with their ammo.

 

I think it should be hard to find ammo no matter what gun you are using. And keep in mind the goal is 100+ players a server. Ammo is gonna be hoovered up and spat out quicker than it spawns. Especially if people have PPSH's XD

 

They need more and better options for civilian gear anyway. I don't see why that can't be done by creating variants that use pre-existing calibers in order to save time and expand upon said ammunition types.

Right now we're at a point where gear & ammunition spawns in high amounts, but I wouldn't expect that to last forever, so eventually you'll be encouraging people to move into smaller towns and villages simply because the larger places are always looted out first. A huge reason for small towns being avoided is simply because many of the small village houses do not spawn any weapons (or guns, at least) and any loot they do spawn can be acquired in larger amounts elsewhere.

 

You're still not going to change player mentality even if you do introduce substantial gear and make all loot as a whole much rarer; airfields, bases, hospitals, chopper crashes, and other big caches are going to remain the most crossed over parts, simply because they have the greatest chance to spawn the greatest loot. All that adding more options will do is fan it out a bit and make people spend a little more time preparing.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[agentstaple 29]

Fair enough, all very good points.

 

+1 for the 9mm versions ;)

 

edit: also, do you not think that bizon looks like 50 times cooler than the normal one? It's like the AK's little brother.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Agentstapler

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Fair enough, all very good points.

 

+1 for the 9mm versions ;)

 

edit: also, do you not think that bizon looks like 50 times cooler than the normal one? It's like the AK's little brother.

Oh, of course, it's an awesome looking gun.

 

It's just that it looks uncannily similar to the PP-19-01 Vityaz, though the Vityaz itself truly looks like an AKS-74U chambered in 9x19mm. (Basically like the Colt 9mm SMG is to the M4A1) In that sense I just feel it'd be a better use to have the Bizon take its more common form with the 64 round magazine and have the Vityaz be the "9mm AK Carbine", which is not only more authentic but also spices up the gameplay a lot more.

 

So why not have this;

and this?

 

 

Back to before, I wouldn't at all have a problem with them adding 7.62x25mm, I just (and I stress this a lot) don't believe there's a priority reason for it to be included now. It would obviously be much more authentic to include the actual Tokarev TT-33, CZ-52, PPS-43, and PPSh-41 over rather obscure and low-production guns like the MP-41R (Which didn't even have any drum mags, as far as I'm aware [Though it still had 35 rounds and retained the fire rate]), but it can be done without them.

If it does get done, then I'd hope it's down the road. We've got enough (5) pistol calibers that have plenty of handguns & SMGs that I'd honestly like expanded on first, including the Bizon and PP-19-01.

 

However, what I'm REALLY excited for is the guns coming up shortly. We've got the MP-133 (pump shotgun), Rossi R92 (Lever-Action Rifle), SVD (Marksman/Sniper Rifle) and RG17 (Derringer), and those are great because we don't really have any guns of those types in DayZ. The AKS-74U is also significant because it's the advent of 5.45x39mm caliber, and an AK carbine is a must-have. Even the AUG is cool because it's a bullpup rifle.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[agentstaple 29]

However, what I'm REALLY excited for is the guns coming up shortly. We've got the MP-133 (pump shotgun), Rossi R92 (Lever-Action Rifle), SVD (Marksman/Sniper Rifle) and RG17 (Derringer), and those are great because we don't really have any guns of those types in DayZ. The AKS-74U is also significant because it's the advent of 5.45x39mm caliber, and an AK carbine is a must-have. Even the AUG is cool because it's a bullpup rifle.

I didn't even know there are 5 pistol calibers already in to be honest, that's plenty to add other guns of all sorts of variety and dilute the loot.

 

I can't wait for the Rossi, I can't wait to see what a Rossi looks like sawn off (they better add a sawn off version!), that would be my ultimate city gun (if I couldn't get a ppsh of course).

 

Someone also said that the M1 garand has been confirmed!

 

I take it back, this would be my ultimate city weapon - http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100602203320/hellsing/images/5/53/Luke_Valentine%27s_Short_M1_Garand.jpg

 

edit: I realize that would be impossible to control.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Agentstapler

[dvsilverwing 241]

I didn't even know there are 5 pistol calibers already in to be honest, that's plenty to add other guns of all sorts of variety and dilute the loot.

 

I can't wait for the Rossi, I can't wait to see what a Rossi looks like sawn off (they better add a sawn off version!), that would be my ultimate city gun (if I couldn't get a ppsh of course).

 

Someone also said that the M1 garand has been confirmed!

 

I take it back, this would be my ultimate city weapon - http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100602203320/hellsing/images/5/53/Luke_Valentine%27s_Short_M1_Garand.jpg

 

edit: I realize that would be impossible to control.

 

Dean said he'd like to add the M1 Garand, it was on "his list", because despite being a weapon you'd most likely not find in Chernarus it's a weapon that a lot of people like and can "connect to". Also, don't forget the Browning HP, really surprised the AUG is being added before the Hi-Power.

[agouti 105]

He just copied and pasted one of my quotes from before, but regardless, 7.62x25mm is a cartridge allowing for almost exclusively pistols and SMGs.

Plenty of .22LR, .380 ACP, 9x19mm, and .45 ACP guns that can fill that role without needing a brand new caliber for (at most) eight new pistols and SMGs.

 

The PPSh-41 would obviously be a cool gun, but like I said you can use the MP-41r which was just a conversion to 9x19mm. The PPS-43 is cool but for all intents and purposes is a second PPSh-41. The SA Vz.23, Vz.24, & Vz.26 (CZ Model 25 SMG) are cool, but they're all essentially the same gun, there's no reason to spend the time modeling all three. Not to mention that the SA Vz.23 is actually a 9x19mm weapon (the Vz.24 was the 7.62x25mm variant), so you don't even need a new caliber to get a variant in.

 

Bizon can be done in .380 ACP and 9x19mm, and would honestly portray the gun more realistically, because both of those variants retain the 64 round helical magazine. The 7.62x25mm variant replaces the helical magazine:

 

^ A Bizon-2-07 in 7.62x25mm. Looks incredibly similar to the PP-19-01 Vityaz, which is a 9x19mm gun.

 

Tokarev, as I stated, has Norinco clones in 9x19mm.

 

The only gun you truly cannot (officially) get without 7.62x25mm (that you listed) is the CZ-52. But even with all of them considered, do two 8-round semi-auto pistols, two World War II SMGs built on the same platform (that are fairly unique, but can be done w/o 7.62x25mm), three Czech SMGs that are almost exactly the same, and a variant of a gun that would be much better off using .380 ACP and 9x19mm anyway, make it worth adding?

Because it seems to me like you can increase variety and dilute the pool without needing to creating another ammunition type.

 

Not to say it's more realistic, just to say you can essentially have a Tokarev & PPSh without having 7.62x25mm caliber.

 

 

 

They need more and better options for civilian gear anyway. I don't see why that can't be done by creating variants that use pre-existing calibers in order to save time and expand upon said ammunition types.

Right now we're at a point where gear & ammunition spawns in high amounts, but I wouldn't expect that to last forever, so eventually you'll be encouraging people to move into smaller towns and villages simply because the larger places are always looted out first. A huge reason for small towns being avoided is simply because many of the small village houses do not spawn any weapons (or guns, at least) and any loot they do spawn can be acquired in larger amounts elsewhere.

 

You're still not going to change player mentality even if you do introduce substantial gear and make all loot as a whole much rarer; airfields, bases, hospitals, chopper crashes, and other big caches are going to remain the most crossed over parts, simply because they have the greatest chance to spawn the greatest loot. All that adding more options will do is fan it out a bit and make people spend a little more time preparing.

 

 

As I've stated many times, the 7.62x25 has special properties, which, if the game is capable of either reproducing or emulating, would make a fine addition to the game.

The 7.62x25 can penetrate better than other pistol calibers, and should work better both against clothing, light armor, and static objects. It'd be better for shooting at vehicles. The round is also flatter shooting than other pistol caliber rounds, thus requiring less arcing at long distances, and retains more of the velocity, giving it a greater effective range.

 

Pakistan makes 7.62x25 pistols and carbines (or the arma verse equivalent]. The 7.62x25 can be fired from a c96, though it will increase wear.

 

I should note that irl pakistan makes many many crazy guns in the 7.62x25 caliber, and if there is an arma equivalent, I'd like to see a bunch of these crazy things.

 

List of weapons, realistically

 

 

smg:

 

PPsh-41

PPD

PPs-43

AK [surprisingly common, there are many AKs converted to simple blowback]

sterling

Czech sa 24/26

Chinese type 79

Chinese type 85

Yugoslavian m49

Korovin 1941 (probably not common enough to warrant in game]

 

(and various paki carbines resembling and made from an AK, mp5s made from an Ak, or american rechambered m4]

 

The dedicated upper on an american Ar is more common than you would think, but ultimately, imo, useless to add.

 

I should note I've seen many many firearms offered in this chambering, but what sense would it make? Who would want a g3 or an uzi in 7.62x25?

 

 

 

Pistols:

TT33

cz-52

zastava ppz (modern 20 round mag]

stechkin in 7.62x25 (also in 9x18 or .380 for gameplay, or 9x19]

c96

px-3 (another modern handgun]

[DURRHUNTER 597]

Why would you waist time looking for a exact ammo caliber when you can just have a few and guns that go with them?

really guys i dont think they are going to add 7.62x25mm so dont push it its not really worth it.

[agouti 105]

Really, I think the only guns worth adding from that list are:

 

PPD, PPsh-41 PPs-43, tt33, c96, cz-52, zastava ppz, the ak, and the stechkin (a fully automatic handgun]. (and maybe the px-3]

 

The reason I'm so hellbent on this is vehicles. Vehicles will greatly stop most pistol caliber rounds, or very very much slow down, unless you hit the glass. Wouldn't you like to be able to engage vehicles with smgs and pistols? It might seem like a moot point now, but in a few weeks, you'll wish they were in the game. Or else, you know, a few buddies and you wait by a gas station and try to light up some car with handguns. They drive 200 yards away, park, pull out their rifles, shoot you all, and go back and gas up. If you had 7.62x25 handguns, you might just win. In a world where you don't care about collateral damage, you'll want a gun that penetrates and penetrates hard.

 

The .357 might be all you got.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Really, I think the only guns worth adding from that list are:

 

PPD, PPsh-41 PPs-43, tt33, c96, cz-52, zastava ppz, the ak, and the stechkin (a fully automatic handgun]. (and maybe the px-3]

 

The reason I'm so hellbent on this is vehicles. Vehicles will greatly stop most pistol caliber rounds, or very very much slow down, unless you hit the glass. Wouldn't you like to be able to engage vehicles with smgs and pistols? It might seem like a moot point now, but in a few weeks, you'll wish they were in the game. Or else, you know, a few buddies and you wait by a gas station and try to light up some car with handguns. They drive 200 yards away, park, pull out their rifles, shoot you all, and go back and gas up. If you had 7.62x25 handguns, you might just win. In a world where you don't care about collateral damage, you'll want a gun that penetrates and penetrates hard.

 

The .357 might be all you got.

Pistols and SMGs aren't going to be very effective against vehicles anyway, they aren't designed to be. That's why guards at motor checkpoints often use ARs, high powered rifles, or even machine guns instead of just using typical handguns or submachine-guns. And no, I don't think it's inherently a good thing that people with low-end weapons would have a decent chance against people with very high end gear and vehicles. Granted, I'm not against adding 7.62x25mm, but I wouldn't push that as a reason to add it. You shouldn't be using a Tokarev to shoot at a car anyway. If all I had was a pistol, I'd want to hide or flee, not try and gun down a car. Hell, even with an SMG, the only gun there I'd even attempt to use is the PPSh-41, and that's simply because of the high ammo capacity.

 

Plus, if the vehicle has a small form of rudimentary or built-in armor, the 7.62x25mm round isn't going to do all that much. I think people will be far happier to have IEDs, petrol bombs/molotov cocktails, rifles, LMGs/GPMGs, and directed explosive weapons, rather than a few nearly-identical pistols and SMGs that MAY be able to puncture the vehicle.

 

And that's the big thing - you're not REALLY getting a lot of variety in adding 7.62x25mm. The PPD-40, PPSh-41, and Zastava PP may as well be skins of the same model, the PPS-43 isn't too different either. The C96 wasn't developed for 7.62x25mm; it can shoot it but the round is far too powerful than was designed. CZ-52 & TT-33 would have near-identical performance. It's a lot of guns on paper, sure, but without too much difference in function, it really becomes a waste of time for the devs to model these without actually getting real variation. They're available in alternative calibers, so why not just use those?

 

 

Dean said he'd like to add the M1 Garand, it was on "his list", because despite being a weapon you'd most likely not find in Chernarus it's a weapon that a lot of people like and can "connect to". Also, don't forget the Browning HP, really surprised the AUG is being added before the Hi-Power.

Probably because there are enough pistols for now, and the AUG would make a more significant difference.

That, or they just preferred the AUG first :P

Edited October 7, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[agouti 105]

Pistols and SMGs aren't going to be very effective against vehicles anyway, they aren't designed to be. That's why guards at motor checkpoints often use ARs, high powered rifles, or even machine guns instead of just using typical handguns or submachine-guns. And no, I don't think it's inherently a good thing that people with low-end weapons would have a decent chance against people with very high end gear and vehicles. Granted, I'm not against adding 7.62x25mm, but I wouldn't push that as a reason to add it. You shouldn't be using a Tokarev to shoot at a car anyway. If all I had was a pistol, I'd want to hide or flee, not try and gun down a car. Hell, even with an SMG, the only gun there I'd even attempt to use is the PPSh-41, and that's simply because of the high ammo capacity.

 

Plus, if the vehicle has a small form of rudimentary or built-in armor, the 7.62x25mm round isn't going to do all that much. I think people will be far happier to have IEDs, petrol bombs/molotov cocktails, rifles, LMGs/GPMGs, and directed explosive weapons, rather than a few nearly-identical pistols and SMGs that MAY be able to puncture the vehicle.

 

And that's the big thing - you're not REALLY getting a lot of variety in adding 7.62x25mm. The PPD-40, PPSh-41, and Zastava PP may as well be skins of the same model, the PPS-43 isn't too different either. The C96 wasn't developed for 7.62x25mm; it can shoot it but the round is far too powerful than was designed. CZ-52 & TT-33 would have near-identical performance. It's a lot of guns on paper, sure, but without too much difference in function, it really becomes a waste of time for the devs to model these without actually getting real variation. They're available in alternative calibers, so why not just use those?

 

 

Probably because there are enough pistols for now, and the AUG would make a more significant difference.

That, or they just preferred the AUG first :P

 

The mod had like a bazillion different AK variants. And ar variants. I'd just like to see some of that variety return. I'm curious though, why at this point in the game, haven't they released some tools to the community? Now, this might sound crazy, but say in stalker, the community was able to provide additional weapons and ammo types, which fit with the art in the game already and behaved more or less as they should.

 

Also, another good argument for the 7.62x25 is shooting someone who is behind cover. I know in other games if somebody is behind a wall and playing footsie with me around a corner, I just light up the wall. Also, as stated earlier, the c96 will experience increased wear, but I feel this would not accumulate in any meaningful way before you die in this game. Kinda like shooting .357 in some of those earlier s&ws.

[gibonez 3633]

7.62x25 should have been in the game.

 

It has way more potential than .45 acp, .380 and .357 magnum combined.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

7.62x25 should have been in the game.

 

It has way more potential than .45 acp, .380 and .357 magnum combined.

Are you kidding? A couple different handguns and SMGs that are all nearly identical (and most of which are available in other calibers) have more potential than one of the world's most prominent handgun calibers, a popular subcompact pistol & submachine-gun caliber, and a high powered revolver/carbine cartridge?

 

7.62x25mm may be a good way to AUGMENT the pre-existing calibers, but you cannot righteously say that the Tokarev TT-33, CZ-52, and PPSh-41 have more potential than three other major calibers worth of guns

 

 

 

The mod had like a bazillion different AK variants. And ar variants. I'd just like to see some of that variety return. I'm curious though, why at this point in the game, haven't they released some tools to the community? Now, this might sound crazy, but say in stalker, the community was able to provide additional weapons and ammo types, which fit with the art in the game already and behaved more or less as they should.

 

Also, another good argument for the 7.62x25 is shooting someone who is behind cover. I know in other games if somebody is behind a wall and playing footsie with me around a corner, I just light up the wall. Also, as stated earlier, the c96 will experience increased wear, but I feel this would not accumulate in any meaningful way before you die in this game. Kinda like shooting .357 in some of those earlier s&ws.

 

They haven't opened up modding tools because; A] The game isn't finished and there are plenty of other things to work on, and B] there are many different exploits and hacks that would need to be fixed before allowing customization.

 

The mod didn't REALLY have that many AKs. There was only the AK-74, AKS-74 Kobra, AKS-74U, and AKM (in the vanilla mod). These were also just assets taken from ArmA 2, not actually created for the mod itself. The attachment system sort of replaced the need for all of the variants - it was found to be a lot better to make the folding stock be an AK attachment rather than making the AKM and AKMS separate rifles. So really looking at the base guns, we've already matched the mod - AKM for, of course, the AKM, AK101/AK-74M for the AK-74 & AKS-74 Kobra, and the AKS-74U is on its way as well. Assuming the AKS-74U's skeleton stock can be detached, and they add a Kobra sight at some point, we'll actually have better AK variety than in the mod.

 

7.62x25mm itself is a unique round, and great at penetrating body armor as well as solid cover. The round itself I won't at all deny would be great, however, it's the lack of overall significant variety in the weapons that use it that make it detrimental to adding it. In a sense, it's the Tokarev and PPSh-41 you're getting out of it, possibly some other guns, but nothing significant. I'm all for unique ammunition types, but if that were the sole factor (aside from realism), I'd also want ammunition like .243 Winchester and 5.7x28mm. However, we'll likely not get either of them, however significant the individual ballistics may be.

To me it's just not justified enough, but I could go either way on it. People seem to act as if I'm opposed to it - I'm not, I just want to point out that it's not some necessity.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[agentstaple 29]

Are you kidding? A couple different handguns and SMGs that are all nearly identical (and most of which are available in other calibers) have more potential than one of the world's most prominent handgun calibers, a popular subcompact pistol & submachine-gun caliber, and a high powered revolver/carbine cartridge?

 

7.62x25mm may be a good way to AUGMENT the pre-existing calibers, but you cannot righteously say that the Tokarev TT-33, CZ-52, and PPSh-41 have more potential than three other major calibers worth of guns

Chaingun has the right of this.

 

I would like that caliber added but I wouldn't take any out to put it in and I wouldn't argue that it's really any better for the game than other calibers that could be added.

 

IF the devs did want to add another small caliber, that would definitely be my pick solely based on the guns it would add (I love all of them), how it could be implemented and that they would fit real well in chernarus. If they took something else without good reason I'd be a little pissed off ^_^

[gibonez 3633]

Are you kidding? A couple different handguns and SMGs that are all nearly identical (and most of which are available in other calibers) have more potential than one of the world's most prominent handgun calibers, a popular subcompact pistol & submachine-gun caliber, and a high powered revolver/carbine cartridge?

 

7.62x25mm may be a good way to AUGMENT the pre-existing calibers, but you cannot righteously say that the Tokarev TT-33, CZ-52, and PPSh-41 have more potential than three other major calibers worth of guns

 

The ballistics of the 7.62x25 along with the eastern weapons that are chambered in this round alone make it a far better round to have in the game compared to the calibers I mentioned.

 

.45 acp = prolific sure but only really widespread and used in the US.

.380 = Sorta common in concealed carry pistols in the US not really used outside of this

.357 magnum = a caliber that is primarily used only in the US in a limited amount of weapons.

 

 

They should have added 38 special instead of .357 magnum.

9x18 makarov instead of .380

and

7.62x25 instead of .45acp.

[alexeistukov 272]

The ballistics of the 7.62x25 along with the eastern weapons that are chambered in this round alone make it a far better round to have in the game compared to the calibers I mentioned.

 

.45 acp = prolific sure but only really widespread and used in the US.

.380 = Sorta common in concealed carry pistols in the US not really used outside of this

.357 magnum = a caliber that is primarily used only in the US in a limited amount of weapons.

 

 

They should have added 38 special instead of .357 magnum.

9x18 makarov instead of .380

and

7.62x25 instead of .45acp.

 

Devs are not going to change their minds sadly.

 

 

We are going to have to live with it until mod support comes out..

[Chaingunfighter 917]

The ballistics of the 7.62x25 along with the eastern weapons that are chambered in this round alone make it a far better round to have in the game compared to the calibers I mentioned.

 

.45 acp = prolific sure but only really widespread and used in the US.

.380 = Sorta common in concealed carry pistols in the US not really used outside of this

.357 magnum = a caliber that is primarily used only in the US in a limited amount of weapons.

 

 

They should have added 38 special instead of .357 magnum.

9x18 makarov instead of .380

and

7.62x25 instead of .45acp.

.38 Special can be used in .357 guns, so it would be better off IN ADDITION to .357 rather than as a replacement (and I believe awhile ago it was confirmed)

I've already gone over how I feel about 9x18mm vs .380 ACP

You honestly believe having the CZ-52 and Tokarev TT-33 (TWO pistols) would be better than the countless .45 handguns & revolvers?

 

Also, .45 ACP is prolific around the planet, not just in the United States. .380 ACP and .357 Magnum are more local, but I still don't see how four guns justify throwing three calibers out the window. And you're acting like I'm ridiculous.

[agouti 105]

Are you kidding? A couple different handguns and SMGs that are all nearly identical (and most of which are available in other calibers) have more potential than one of the world's most prominent handgun calibers, a popular subcompact pistol & submachine-gun caliber, and a high powered revolver/carbine cartridge?

 

7.62x25mm may be a good way to AUGMENT the pre-existing calibers, but you cannot righteously say that the Tokarev TT-33, CZ-52, and PPSh-41 have more potential than three other major calibers worth of guns

 

 

 

 

They haven't opened up modding tools because; A] The game isn't finished and there are plenty of other things to work on, and B] there are many different exploits and hacks that would need to be fixed before allowing customization.

 

The mod didn't REALLY have that many AKs. There was only the AK-74, AKS-74 Kobra, AKS-74U, and AKM (in the vanilla mod). These were also just assets taken from ArmA 2, not actually created for the mod itself. The attachment system sort of replaced the need for all of the variants - it was found to be a lot better to make the folding stock be an AK attachment rather than making the AKM and AKMS separate rifles. So really looking at the base guns, we've already matched the mod - AKM for, of course, the AKM, AK101/AK-74M for the AK-74 & AKS-74 Kobra, and the AKS-74U is on its way as well. Assuming the AKS-74U's skeleton stock can be detached, and they add a Kobra sight at some point, we'll actually have better AK variety than in the mod.

 

7.62x25mm itself is a unique round, and great at penetrating body armor as well as solid cover. The round itself I won't at all deny would be great, however, it's the lack of overall significant variety in the weapons that use it that make it detrimental to adding it. In a sense, it's the Tokarev and PPSh-41 you're getting out of it, possibly some other guns, but nothing significant. I'm all for unique ammunition types, but if that were the sole factor (aside from realism), I'd also want ammunition like .243 Winchester and 5.7x28mm. However, we'll likely not get either of them, however significant the individual ballistics may be.

To me it's just not justified enough, but I could go either way on it. People seem to act as if I'm opposed to it - I'm not, I just want to point out that it's not some necessity.

 

 

I wasn't referring to modding, but rather, to co-development. I've seen enough mods over the years to wonder, why isn't this a thing? Has any game company ever tried this? There's enough talented modelers out just biting at the chance to include their favorite weapon in the game. Resources wouldn't need to be shifted away from other areas (the artwork can focus on zombies, clothes, etc]. If the animations can be maintained, all that would be left is sounds, which could also user added.

 

I'm also of the mindset of making ammo and weapons more common, just flooding it with different types to make a sort of an artificial rarity. In that sense, by increasing the amount of loot, a vast number of weapons and calibers would be necessary. As such, I would love to see the 5.7x28, and the .243, and the 30-06, and even a .270 or .280, and a .300 win or .338.

 

 

But hey, the .380 was added for 2 guns, and the .45 for two guns. Why is this such a crazy idea? Even the .22 is only used by 2 guns. Also, I really do like the pps-43 and the ppsh-41. I also really do like the cz-52, the tt33, and I'd like to see a zastava ppz. It's confirmed in the .45, .40 cal, and the 9x19, the 7.62x25 is just a rumor.

 

[gibonez 3633]

.38 Special can be used in .357 guns, so it would be better off IN ADDITION to .357 rather than as a replacement (and I believe awhile ago it was confirmed)

I've already gone over how I feel about 9x18mm vs .380 ACP

You honestly believe having the CZ-52 and Tokarev TT-33 (TWO pistols) would be better than the countless .45 handguns & revolvers?

 

Also, .45 ACP is prolific around the planet, not just in the United States. .380 ACP and .357 Magnum are more local, but I still don't see how four guns justify throwing three calibers out the window. And you're acting like I'm ridiculous.

 

Yet .38 special is used in far more weapons that are viable for the region.

Yes .45 is a very niche caliber. In the US it has had steady support but that support has saw considerable decrease over the past 20 years.

Outside of the US .45 acp is pretty non existent that alone makes its inclusion in Dayz pretty stupid.

So yes .45 acp is not prolific around the world.

 

7.62x25 would have added a far larger variety of weapons that fit the setting and the asthetic of dayz especially compared to Western calibers like .45 acp.

 

I mean you add the m1911 and for some odd reason the fnx is added.

 

Where do you go from there ? You add the mall ninja vector ? a tommy gun with a big ol drum mag ? a m3 grease gun ? A de lisle rifle ?

 

.45 acp offers far less options in weapons that would make sense for the setting.

 

Unlike those .45 ww2 war relics 7.62x25 smgs and pistols are still used today all over the world.

[Chaingunfighter 917]

Yet .38 special is used in far more weapons that are viable for the region.

Yes .45 is a very niche caliber. In the US it has had steady support but that support has saw considerable decrease over the past 20 years.

Outside of the US .45 acp is pretty non existent that alone makes its inclusion in Dayz pretty stupid.

So yes .45 acp is not prolific around the world.

 

7.62x25 would have added a far larger variety of weapons that fit the setting and the asthetic of dayz especially compared to Western calibers like .45 acp.

 

I mean you add the m1911 and for some odd reason the fnx is added.

 

Where do you go from there ? You add the mall ninja vector ? a tommy gun with a big ol drum mag ? a m3 grease gun ? A de lisle rifle ?

 

.45 acp offers far less options in weapons that would make sense for the setting.

 

Unlike those .45 ww2 war relics 7.62x25 smgs and pistols are still used today all over the world.

I'm talking down the road. If they decide not to add any more .45 ACP pistols then my point is moot, but it's completely false to say that .45 is nonexistent outside of the US. Completely.

 

You yourself said guns like the UMP-45 would be acceptable high-end SMGs. They could do the UMP-9, but what'd be the point with the MP5?

 

It's pointless to argue anyway because I tend not to care whether a gun "fits the setting or not". Maybe I shouldn't get to have a say because I'm inherently against what DayZ "is supposed to be", but that's what I believe nonetheless. I'd rather have a KRISS Vector, M1928A1, UMP-45, M3 Greasegun, De Lisle, Mark 23, and HK45, than a Tokarev TT-33, CZ-52, PPS-43, and PPSh-41. Call me stupid, but that's my preference.

 

 

 

I wasn't referring to modding, but rather, to co-development. I've seen enough mods over the years to wonder, why isn't this a thing? Has any game company ever tried this? There's enough talented modelers out just biting at the chance to include their favorite weapon in the game. Resources wouldn't need to be shifted away from other areas (the artwork can focus on zombies, clothes, etc]. If the animations can be maintained, all that would be left is sounds, which could also user added.

 

I'm also of the mindset of making ammo and weapons more common, just flooding it with different types to make a sort of an artificial rarity. In that sense, by increasing the amount of loot, a vast number of weapons and calibers would be necessary. As such, I would love to see the 5.7x28, and the .243, and the 30-06, and even a .270 or .280, and a .300 win or .338.

 

 

But hey, the .380 was added for 2 guns, and the .45 for two guns. Why is this such a crazy idea? Even the .22 is only used by 2 guns. Also, I really do like the pps-43 and the ppsh-41. I also really do like the cz-52, the tt33, and I'd like to see a zastava ppz. It's confirmed in the .45, .40 cal, and the 9x19, the 7.62x25 is just a rumor.

 

 

This is how I originally wanted DayZ to be. I wanted calibers across the board; from .22LR, .25 ACP, 9x18mm Makarov, and .380 ACP, to 9x19mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, & 7.62x25mm to 5.56x45mm, 5.45x39mm & 7.62x39mm, to 7.62x51mm, 7.62x54mmR, to .243 Winchester, .270 Winchester, .338 Lapua, to .50AE & 12.7x99mm, with weapons of all sorts appearing in respective, realistic variety.

However, the developers have made it quite clear that that is not the route they're taking, so I've learned to accept it, and now I tend to see what I believe benefits gameplay the most, and 7.62x25mm Tokarev does not sit high in that regard. It's an awful defense, but it's my belief. It's probably wrong, but that's how I see it.

 

 

At this point we're all really arguing with each other over what we'd see as acceptable, because the weapons list is pretty much internally confirmed. Side projects and alterations will most definitely occur, but it's fairly set in stone, and I'm guessing that internal discussion about new calibers is decided upon by now.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Chaingunfighter

[agouti 105]

I'm talking down the road. If they decide not to add any more .45 ACP pistols then my point is moot, but it's completely false to say that .45 is nonexistent outside of the US. Completely.

 

You yourself said guns like the UMP-45 would be acceptable high-end SMGs. They could do the UMP-9, but what'd be the point with the MP5?

 

It's pointless to argue anyway because I tend not to care whether a gun "fits the setting or not". Maybe I shouldn't get to have a say because I'm inherently against what DayZ "is supposed to be", but that's what I believe nonetheless. I'd rather have a KRISS Vector, M1928A1, UMP-45, M3 Greasegun, De Lisle, Mark 23, and HK45, than a Tokarev TT-33, CZ-52, PPS-43, and PPSh-41. Call me stupid, but that's my preference.

 

 

 

 

This is how I originally wanted DayZ to be. I wanted calibers across the board; from .22LR, .25 ACP, 9x18mm Makarov, and .380 ACP, to 9x19mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, & 7.62x25mm to 5.56x45mm, 5.45x39mm & 7.62x39mm, to 7.62x51mm, 7.62x54mmR, to .243 Winchester, .270 Winchester, .338 Lapua, to .50AE & 12.7x99mm, with weapons of all sorts appearing in respective, realistic variety.

However, the developers have made it quite clear that that is not the route they're taking, so I've learned to accept it, and now I tend to see what I believe benefits gameplay the most, and 7.62x25mm Tokarev does not sit high in that regard. It's an awful defense, but it's my belief. It's probably wrong, but that's how I see it.

 

 

At this point we're all really arguing with each other over what we'd see as acceptable, because the weapons list is pretty much internally confirmed. Side projects and alterations will most definitely occur, but it's fairly set in stone, and I'm guessing that internal discussion about new calibers is decided upon by now.

 

Devs are not going to change their minds sadly.

 

 

We are going to have to live with it until mod support comes out..

 

Who in particular are the mods responsible for this decision?

[alexeistukov 272]

Finally some discussion, keep it up guys!  

 

 

It helps keep the thread alive

[DURRHUNTER 597]

Finally some discussion, keep it up guys!  

 

 

It helps keep the thread alive

This is mainly a quarrel about a 75 year old cartridge.

[agouti 105]

This is mainly a quarrel about a 75 year old cartridge.

 

.380-1908

.45-1904

9x19-1902

7.62x54R-1891

 

 

Do you have a point?

[Evil Minion 943]

Here older is actually better as the cartridge has more time to appear in a certain place. Thats why .22LR, .380 Auto, .45 ACP and even .30-06 are actually not that unlikely.

 

Now we know that 5.45x39mm and .30-06 are coming so we got:

• 1 small cartridge (.22LR)
• 3 pistol cartridges (.380 Auto, .9mm Parabellum, .45 ACP)
• 1 revolver cartridge (.375 Magnum)
• 2 small rifle cartridges (5.45x39mm, 5.56x45mm)
• 1 intermediate cartridge (7.62x39mm)
• 2 full power cartridges (7.62x54mmR, .30-06)
• 1 shotgun shell (12 gauge)

If they are planning on adding 7.62x51mm as well we got three full power cartridges. Now take a look at some other options:

1. 9mm Makarov - This is completely overshadowed by the 9mm Parabellum and .380 Auto - both allow for more weapons and together they include most 9mm Makarov weapons. It would only mess with the dynamics without being worth it.
2. 7.62x25mm Tokarev - Same story its overshadowed by 9mm Parabellum in particular. Allows for a few old guns - that are actually less likely to be found than an M1 Garand because they do not make for good hunting weapons.
3. .25 ACP - Another handgun caliber but actually closer to the .22LR. Now it seems less popular and doesn't allow for firearms you could not replace by more fitting or popular ones.
4. .40 S&W - It is relatively new, relatively american and doesn't allow for many weapons you could not find an adequante replacement in 9mm Parabellum and .45 ACP - both cartridges more likely to be found in Chernarus.
5. .38 Special - Now we are getting somewhere. Old round - check. By nature it allows for more weapons than the .357 Magnum as it can also be used by those guns - check. And it can even be fired by already existing guns - check.
6. 9x39mm - Allows for some pretty interesting guns that even match the setting. Also nothing wrong with being very rare (both guns and ammo) so less effect on dynamics and makes those weapons reasonably hard to maintain.
7. .243 Winchester - Seems like a American hunting cartridge to me. Now Hunting Rifles often support a good variety of calibers there is no reason not to use existing calibers instead because of the impact on gameplay dynamics. Now it could work if hunting rifles would end up with a different ammo distribution system that is based on static rarity or geographical range rather than dynamic competition.
8. .270 Winchester - Similar to the above actually not needed and might only be worthwhile for changing the hunting rifle dynamics to many guns, many calibers. I doubt this would be a very good change in gameplay terms though as it might add too many rifle strains.
9. .338 Lapua - A cartridge only for snipers? There should not be so many snipers around and I think here competition with more common guns would work better. Might work as two-layer rare similar to 9x39mm but weaker as the weapons it allows for are not too much different from snipers using other calibers - and they are all snipers.
10. .50 BMG - Allows for HMGs and AMRs both which probably gives it the advantage over .338 Lapua. Also quite an old and popualr cartridge. Weapons and ammo should be rare though but having other guns than sniper rifles in the list boosts the competition factor which is a good thing.
11. 12.7×108mm - Basically the same but Russian. Both would be equally possible but rarity would mean its unreasonable to add both.
12. 20 gauge - Why not add another shotgun shell? We got so many handgun and rifle calibers but only the 12 gauge shell (granted its by far the most commonly used). So some varienty would be appreciated. Dynamics-wise it allows for a second shotgun strain allowing automatic shotguns to be decoupled from civilian ones.
13. .410 bore - Actually I am in favor of this over 20 gauge because there is more difference compared to the 12 gauge. 20 gauge seems to allow for more guns though.

In the end it depends on the intended dynamics. More cartridges means less migration and competition (unless they are geographically distinct) while less cartridges reduce the possible amount of guns and increases the chance of finding ammo in an unlooted area. If a weapon or weapon type is the only user of a certain type of ammo most other will simply ignore it as it is of no use for them. This would for example cause a sniper to find a box of .338 Lapua rounds in the "trash" others left behind. Another factor might be distribution - more types would mean more people actually have ammo but less people would have a lot of it. So its easier to get supplies but you will probably get less of them.

 

In the end "good mix" is probably be the way to go: Add a number of rounds that allow for interesting weapons but avoid adding rounds that don't give you no options to keep the game mechanics more competitive and limit the amount of possible strains. We got 10 strains of weapons already. Compare this to the current maximum server population of 50 players.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Evil Minion