What Alpha Is Supposed To Be (A Discussion On Dev Direction And If The Game Will Ever Be Completed)

[lets 92]

wholey fanboys,

 

you tolerate KOS threads from 12 yr old newbs, but the minute someone has a logical thought process you jump all over him.

 

jesus fuck

 

good post OP.

 

I always wondered why they are worrying more about mosin paint/features, instead of 100% focus on optimization and actually fixing what the community wants (log out timer & server loot spawn timer, /server hop timer)

Man, you don't understand that, the artists of the game made the painting of the guns, and they can't work on optimization, this is work for other people.

[jovlon 32]

I responded to all of your points and only added a some humor at the end. One you have three scenarios right off the bat that come across as trolling and then you show a massive lack of knowledge on both current industry trends and development in general. Not saying you are a troll but you did not make great points. 

 

You are a humorous person I will give you that to claim that I have a massive lack of knowledge about the industry. Once again I will ask the simple question of how many games have you ever developed fully or incomplete? And I rest my case.

[Mdogg2005 447]

@CrazyandLady

 

And that's just what I'm saying. Those are points that I'd forgotten about. I'm looking at it as a guy who has developed games and I see the signs. And it's not just me but other developers that I've talked to about this. We all see the signs of the development going in the wrong direction and that's from the outside. When you add the points that you've made, for these other posters to defend have the blindest of faiths without any question I think is dangerous. 

 

Again if I weren't legitimately concerned I wouldn't have made the effort to post this. 

Oh no, not the other developers!!11

 

I'm in software development with a game development background.  I'm almost 100% convinced you have no clue what you're talking about.  Sorry.

[TangoAlpha 39]

You'd be mad to think this game will never be completed.

[Mdogg2005 447]

May I ask what your game dev experience is? If you'd know the signs of developmental dysfunction at all? Further I'd like to specifically hear your opinion now as to why I shouldn't raise any concerns at all? Just from you because you seem to have a strong opinion on this matter though you've yet to voice it. I'm bored of people who who have no valid opinion to move the conversation in any way.

Your entire argument is based on assumptions.  I feel like Dean and the development team have been pretty open with us thus far.  Yes I've been wrong before and games I thought would turn out great have had horrible launches and lifespans.  I feel like if you had more proof than "well I talked to other developers and we think it's going too slow" I'd be inclined to agree with some concerns - because I do have my own about this game. 

 

Point being, it's too early to tell.  There are so many doom conspiracy threads, QQ threads, and people whining on this forum, I just can't keep track of them all.  I am not a fanboy, I never even played the mod, but all the people screaming doom that the game is a scam or is being developed too slow, need to take a step back and realize that it's too early to tell anything.

 

Feel free to read my post over here explaining this in more detail about what we get when we demand things quicker, and how the CoD kiddie generation of "gamers" is ruining gaming.  Patience is a virtue that many seem to have lost.

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/163435-for-those-complaining-about-development-pace/#entry1649123

[PhilB 230]

It may be true there's a touch of waywardness, but they'll find their way and things are going well all things considered. They are probably still "living the moment", absolutely stunned at over one million units sold and all this hoopla. I don't think they expected that. 

 

Maybe because I work for a largish corporation, but to me I'm super impressed with what they've been able to accomplish, considering they're this cute little small business with this huge game idea.

 

But I agree with the sentiment about taking this thing to the next level. Company/Customer relationships needs to become normalized, organized and like a AAA title, not like a business runs from some dude's garage (no offense, I'm the biggest fan there is). 

 

Finally, NO HACKING. Gotta give recognition for that. So far, cheating has been nil. (yeah, server hopping, that separate though).

 

As a fan, I can forgive just about anything. But if I put my businessman hat on for a moment, I'd tell "Rocket" that he can call it an alpher all day but over one million people bought the title. He's well past alpha; like it or not DayZ is simply a game now, at least in the consumers' eyes. I think they should spend some of those sales dollars on increased community relations, etc. I think this is the OP's complaint, at heart. Not enough and too chaotic community relations management. In the long run, it doesn't matter because the core concept is so compelling. They could truly fuck this up and still have a hit. 

 

I sort of empathize with op's grievance. But considering all factors, I give DayZ a grade of A- right now. I say good job.

Edited January 28, 2014 by PhilB

[ruStanSc 9]

Every time I read shit like this, I get the feeling that people think the team would have a few slaves on a cotton field which will bring you every day a new sweater for free.
Why do people always think that the whole team is working simultaneously at the same thing/problem?

Or why people force them to go in beta after a month of developement?

 

[...]  I'm almost 100% convinced you have no clue what you're talking about.  Sorry.

True!

 

For all the people that think they could do it better: Gtfo and do it! Or maybe take a flight to Bohemia and apply for a job.

Edited January 28, 2014 by ruStanSc

[e00c 84]

I'd rather them take their time. As long as they need. 
We've seen rushed games before... 

Either way, they will get grief with what ever direction they go! 

 

The fact that Sony are interested in a console port is enough for them to see the potential £££'s. They will only do this if they "don't f**k up the pc version".  If that that's not enough incentive, I'm not sure what is.. Give the guys a break. Considering this is Alpha, I've had more fun on this game than any other 'finished' game!

[PhillyT 554]

Assuming the game never progresses beyond where it is, I have already gotten more than $30 of fun and play out of it.  If 100 hours at $30 isn't a success, I don't know what is.

 

I have a friend also in game development.  He echoed much of what the OP is saying, that he is suspicious that they will be able to produce a complete product that is satisfactory.  

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

At first glance, an absolutely scathing takedown of Bohemia and the DayZ development team! At second glance, a downright laughable rant based on absurd assumptions disguised as "evidence" and a bunch of gobbledegook pulled directly out of your puckered asshole.

 

If BI wanted a quick buck, why would they have let Dean and team work for 18 months on the payroll with zero revenue? That was a huge risk. If you want to see what happens when a company wants to make a quick buck, go play The WarZ. That was a cash grab. If BI didn't intend to finish it, why the last 18 months? It makes no sense. They could have plopped the mod on top of ARMA 3's engine, released it for $20 back in 2012 and probably pulled in just as much money, then put Dean and folks back to work on their core products.

Edited January 28, 2014 by ZedsDeadBaby

[jovlon 32]

Your entire argument is based on assumptions.  I feel like Dean and the development team have been pretty open with us thus far.  Yes I've been wrong before and games I thought would turn out great have had horrible launches and lifespans.  I feel like if you had more proof than "well I talked to other developers and we think it's going too slow" I'd be inclined to agree with some concerns - because I do have my own about this game. 

 

Point being, it's too early to tell.  There are so many doom conspiracy threads, QQ threads, and people whining on this forum, I just can't keep track of them all.  I am not a fanboy, I never even played the mod, but all the people screaming doom that the game is a scam or is being developed too slow, need to take a step back and realize that it's too early to tell anything.

 

Feel free to read my post over here explaining this in more detail about what we get when we demand things quicker, and how the CoD kiddie generation of "gamers" is ruining gaming.  Patience is a virtue that many seem to have lost.

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/163435-for-those-complaining-about-development-pace/#entry1649123

 

I appreciate this and this is all that I wanted. It's a valid point. 

[jovlon 32]

I want to state this clearly. There have been many post about stating that I've said that game is being developed too slowly. I don't care about the pace. I'd actually prefer slower development than attempting to implement vehicles in 6 months time. 

 

I simply want the developers to focus on the proper things within Alpha. 

[PhillyT 554]

My buddy said he thinks the game is much further than a year from Beta, which I was shocked by, but he knows better than me!

[Mdogg2005 447]

To those who agree with the pace issue mentioned (not to derail, sorry), discuss it over here instead of this thread:

http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/163435-for-those-complaining-about-development-pace/#entry1649123

[Nocturnal (DayZ) 85]

Well I trust these developers. I've very much enjoyed the BI games I've played over the years.

 

Bohemia are an indie developer, who consistently make games aimed at a hardcore market. DayZ was an extremely successful mod that would of sold really well even if all they did was repackage the mod and sell it at the end of 2012. Instead, they had a small team develop it over an extra year, whilst generating no revenue, then decided to release as early access alpha only when they deemed it to be in a stable enough state. No publishers, no marketing.

 

None of that suggests to me that DayZ is a cash grab without clear direction - in fact, it seems quite literally, the opposite. It tells me the developers want to make a fantastic game above all else.

 

That's my assumption, as was OP's post just an assumption. I'll save this thread and we'll see who right or wrong is in a years time.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Nocturnal

[MethHeadMario 27]

Lol 90% of the suggestions on these forums are shit.  I'm glad Bohemia isn't adding in every single one.  Is this a troll post?  I don't even.

 

This is just another whine thread.  It's fucking ALPHA....  As a developer you should know that this means that it is not done and is being worked on.  Not to mention, as a developer, you should also know, that a game that has a hard release date needs crunch time.  This game is nowhere near needing "crunch time" so fuck off about telling the devs they can't go home for the weekend.  You crack me up.

 

As a developer, you should also know that fixing fundamental issues and adding minor changes have almost nothing to do with each other.  Team A responsible for adding the spray paint cans has NOTHING to do with Team B fixing Zombie AI or Team C fixing loot respawn. 

 

You have no clue what you are talking about.  And yes, I added the specific lines of "As a developer" to patronize.

Hey this guy is a Fanboy who screams It's Alpha into every post on the forums.. Don't listen to what he says..  I am hoping the OP isn't right here but nobody really knows.. Anything could happen.

[crazyandlazy 376]

You mean a recently implemented item will sometimes have unintended bugs in an Alpha, my stars I think I am getting the vapors.

 

Lol, your one valid point is better bug tracking, but Dean being unaware of a single bug is not the same as the developers tasked with fixing that specific bug being unaware.

 

The paint was suppose to work only for the Mosin. It's not hard to double check stuff. At our job, we have like 2 levels of approval. Two stages if you must, that proof-reads the materials we have written. The final version does not even have commas and letter repeats.

 

Maybe it's because of the small amount of staff but I think they are lacking in their reviewing process. I mean you put in new things, you should test it out anticipating/searching for bugs.

 

 

 

 

@CrazyandLady

 

And that's just what I'm saying. Those are points that I'd forgotten about. I'm looking at it as a guy who has developed games and I see the signs. And it's not just me but other developers that I've talked to about this. We all see the signs of the development going in the wrong direction and that's from the outside. When you add the points that you've made, for these other posters to defend have the blindest of faiths without any question I think is dangerous. 

 

Again if I weren't legitimately concerned I wouldn't have made the effort to post this. 

 

Well I am not THAT concerned cause I already have gotten what I had paid for. Would be nice to have more :].

 

I just wish they take the time to actually review stuff thoroughly. Which reminds me, where is the berry picking? What the heck happen there? 

 

In my preference, I would like updates to be infrequent but very very polished. But hey that's just me. Also, I don't know about anyone else but I don't like being bombarded with mentions new features that has no set plan. It's useless. I prefer game stability first then additions.

[Mdogg2005 447]

Hey this guy is a Fanboy who screams It's Alpha into every post on the forums.. Don't listen to what he says..  I am hoping the OP isn't right here but nobody really knows.. Anything could happen.

So because you made a whiny, "look at me bitch" thread, I am now a fanboy who has to remind you that you purchased an early access alpha game?

 

Seems legit.

 

Also no hard feelings OP.  I was a bit rage-y early on in this thread but now that I gave you my opinion and see a bit more into your purpose for posting, I no longer feel that way.  Hope you understand.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Mdogg2005

[OrLoK 16182]

Hello there

 

Can we sop with the fanboi stuff please. Its incorrect and helps no one. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

Rgds

 

LoK

[DoxHoliday 51]

 

 

I start putting on the hip boots when OPs lead with "a fellow developer".

Edited January 28, 2014 by DoxHoliday

[ZedsDeadBaby 2287]

I want to state this clearly. There have been many post about stating that I've said that game is being developed too slowly. I don't care about the pace. I'd actually prefer slower development than attempting to implement vehicles in 6 months time. 

 

I simply want the developers to focus on the proper things within Alpha. 

 

That's obviously not "simply" what you said in your original post. You outright accused Bohemia of running a scam to steal our money with no intention of delivering a product. That is a hell of a lot different than just "wanting them to focus on the proper things." If that's what you wanted to discuss, that's what you should have posted. Not your bullshit conspiracy theory about Bohemia using DayZ to bilk us out of millions of dollars and close up shop without delivering a product.

 

If you're really interested in reading about the team's Alpha priorities, go to this reddit thread. I posted a long post criticizing their priorities and rocket responded reasonably to every point. He discusses precisely why the priorities seem odd, explains what they're working on and why, and even hints that they are looking to hire production staff to help keep things moving in the right direction.

 

And next time you want to talk about something, maybe just make a post about that thing instead of wrapping it up in a giant box of bullshit.

[MethHeadMario 27]

wholey fanboys,

 

you tolerate KOS threads from 12 yr old newbs, but the minute someone has a logical thought process you jump all over him.

 

jesus fuck

 

good post OP.

 

I always wondered why they are worrying more about mosin paint/features, instead of 100% focus on optimization and actually fixing what the community wants (log out timer & server loot spawn timer, /server hop timer)

I just recently found out that they have something already made for combat logging, they just won't turn it on until they know they can handle the load it would put on the server.http://forums.dayzgame.com/index.php?/topic/168839-hot-spawning-ghosting-combat-logging/

Thats the link to the Topic I started about Combat logging etc.

[Zombie Jesus 723]

You are a humorous person I will give you that to claim that I have a massive lack of knowledge about the industry. Once again I will ask the simple question of how many games have you ever developed fully or incomplete? And I rest my case.

 

I don't have to say shit about that since I never made that claim. You are the one coming off as uninformed about the industry in general which is sad if you have actual recent experience working in the industry. 

 

So some of the reasons your claim to have experience does not come off great. 

 

Biggest problem is the lack of knowledge on current industry trends. I pointed it out in detail that early access is a way for developers to obtain funding without having to go through a large publisher. The old models of publishers is getting blurred in PC gaming. Even though Bohemia probably has the cash and credit to develop the game internally all the way to official release they might get spooked if the amount of money being spent is going past sales projections. An Early Access game means they can test the waters while providing a bare bones Alpha to those interested in participating. If the interest is high they can spend more money on development. Sure you will have bad actors take advantage but it does remove the focus grouping and marketing managers from the decision making process. 

 

Other large problem with your claim to understand development is concurrent development. Fixing loot spawning mechanics and creating an item like spray paint are usually handled by different people/groups. If it is a very small team there will be less specialization, but from all accounts they have a decent sized staff with people focusing on their specialties. Maybe your experience is outdated or perhaps you are full of shit, but so far it is not coming across as a post by someone with a great grasp of development experience. 

 

But the main reason you are getting flamed is due to your thesis on the three possible reasons the development process is going the way you think it is going. Those are not all of the possibilities and two of them are stupid. 

[Leo Balzac 190]

$30, over 60 hours of entertainment so far. If the Devs were to say "This is all we're doing, sorry." tomorrow, I'd be disappointed but I wouldn't be angry or feel ripped off.

 

OP must've worked for Creative Assembly, they're one of the only Dev house I know that regularly publishes Beta versions and calls them complete.

 

I'm also quite shocked at the number of people who are on this forum and play this game who are developers, it's quite shocking. Every 5th person who posts here seems to be a developer. So you'll have to excuse me when you claim to be a dev of AAA titles while offering no evidence and ask me to believe you.

 

tl;dr: I am entertained, if it was all to end now I still would have gotten my money's worth.

[lordopeth 274]

I don't have to say shit about that since I never made that claim. You are the one coming off as uninformed about the industry in general which is sad if you have actual recent experience working in the industry. 

 

So some of the reasons your claim to have experience does not come off great. 

 

Biggest problem is the lack of knowledge on current industry trends. I pointed it out in detail that early access is a way for developers to obtain funding without having to go through a large publisher. The old models of publishers is getting blurred in PC gaming. Even though Bohemia probably has the cash and credit to develop the game internally all the way to official release they might get spooked if the amount of money being spent is going past sales projections. An Early Access game means they can test the waters while providing a bare bones Alpha to those interested in participating. If the interest is high they can spend more money on development. Sure you will have bad actors take advantage but it does remove the focus grouping and marketing managers from the decision making process. 

 

Other large problem with your claim to understand development is concurrent development. Fixing loot spawning mechanics and creating an item like spray paint are usually handled by different people/groups. If it is a very small team there will be less specialization, but from all accounts they have a decent sized staff with people focusing on their specialties. Maybe your experience is outdated or perhaps you are full of shit, but so far it is not coming across as a post by someone with a great grasp of development experience. 

 

But the main reason you are getting flamed is due to your thesis on the three possible reasons the development process is going the way you think it is going. Those are not all of the possibilities and two of them are stupid. 

 

9/10 would bang.